Upstate New York Tournament Thread

[dudutsai]

To be honest, it shouldn't be just one person making the list. When I made it for MA, we went all out and had it be a panel of out of state smashers (to limit bias), of 5-7 people. I'm sure if you included who else you made it with, you wouldn't even have to justify your reasoning, and more people would be happy with it.

 

[Sharky]

cura is the other panelist for brawl at least. I do agree that it should be at least 3-4 though.

 

[Kantō]

ugh to much PR drama.

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

entertaining

 

[Sheth]

Yeah, too much PR drama when, from what I heard, most of the people ON IT are planning to be at the tournament on RIT's campus next month. Four weeks much to gripe about guys? It'll definitely be reviewed again then.

 

[Sharky]

lol you guys need to stop being dramaphobic, I'm loving this XD

 

[da K.I.D.]

What process? You took the results from SoY2, and made those the current rankings. There's no process evident. I love being talked down to for making a suggestion, too. It's cool.

of course its not evident to you seeing as you didnt play a part.

It just so happened that the rankings mirror this tournaments results, since the top 5 or so are so close in skill, how they perform against each other in the most recent tourney has a big factor in where they are placed, but at the same time you have to realise two things

1. this is THE FIRST TIME that the rankings have mirrored the result of the most recent tourney, did you see us give snakeee 1st place when he won soy 1? no. you didnt. he asked to be held back from the rankings until he had attended another tournament, but had we put him on there to begin with, he still wouldnt have been number 1.

2. Nobody except me moved more than 2 spots on the PR between this tourney and last tourney, jesse moved either 2 or 3 spots as a penalty for always quitting in the middle of th tourney, and hulk got 2 spots for a breakout performance. and XXX got moved back to being above leet which is where he was anyway, since the only real difference is that he basically went from being inactive, to active.

Lastly, I talk down to you because you talk to me as if you know better and that I havent been doing this way longer than you. Yea some of my decisions are off the wall at times, and a lot of the time i encourage people to question me, but sometimes I just lay something down and say, "trust me on this one" and in the rare occasions that I do that. I would appreciate if you just did it. instead of making a scene, arguing with me, and than coming out to find out that I was right all along.

Exibit 1.
KID: Norfair is a horrible stage, it should be banned
Alt: Theres nothing wrong with Norfair.
KID: trust me on this, norfair is really bad.
Alt: No, I swear its a cool stage
*Alt beats jesiah on Norfair*
Alt: Hmmmmm, maybe norfair should be banned.

Exibit B.
Alt: Why is Japes legal, its totally broke.
KID: Trust me on this, Japes will be fine for this tourney.
*KIDs ganon beats Falco, then KIDs Falco loses to Ike*
Alt: ______________________________ (feel free to fill in that blank)

Exibit IV.
Alt: Your process for making this PR is completely uninspired and flawed.
KID: Isnt the current PR correct?
Alt: Well yea, but it still doesnt make the way you made it correct
KID: Wasnt it correct, every other time we altered it?
Alt: Well yea, but that doesnt make your process right...

...
...
...
Really?


And @ Tsai.
I originally planned to make this list with 3-5 people on a panel for Brawl only, but Cura was the only one that knew enough about the whole region and still cared enough to work on it with me that I trusted to do this kind of thing without bias. And after that, Mana got all inspired and excited and like begged (not trying to diss mana cause he wasnt like groveling but I cant think of another word for it) me to make one for Melee as well. and once again, since he was the only one who cared enough to work on it with me, that I felt wouldnt be biased, I had to once again, make it with a 2 person panel.

If there were more people qualified to be on the panel, more people WOULD be on the panel lol.

KID catch phrase number 2.
Trust me! I GOT DIS!

edit@sharky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs

 

[Gaia_x]

Alright on the talk about the PR

1. It should be updated every tournament. Its to show whose currently placing well in our region. We do take in to consideration every event in this region. Which is why some players are dropping and some are rising or staying the same. I also take into consider not only who you beat how you place but also who you lose to.

2. There arent that many panelist mainly because we are only a small region not a whole state. Upstate NY is just a small portion of New york. Why would we need more then 1-3 panelist to take care of such a small area.

3. I will explain the current position of the pr and why changes were made the way they were.

1. Pikapika! (Stayed the Same)- He places in money every single event. Highest upstate placing at ss2 and though we split at last weekends tournament he did beat me in grandfinals when they were played out.

2. Cura (Moved up 1 Spot) - At ss2 I placed second highest in Upstate and only losing to oos people and no one from Upstate

3. San (Moved down 1) Placed 5th at the first stylin at you, Tied with me at ss2 but losing to an Upstate player and then 3rd last event.

4. Dr. Grandpa/The Hulk (Moved up 3) Placed extremely well last 2 events as well as winning money matches against top players in our region

5. Snakeee (Same i think)- Been sucking hardcore in singles <3

6. 1337-0 (Moved up 1) I dont need to explaine this 1. Who here doesnt think leet-0 is good? and if you do you probably suck.

7. JesiahTEG (Moved down 3 spots) Pretty much gives up in brawl but his placings at other events cant be ignored. And though he apprently gave up in this event he still place 5th.

8. XXX (New)- Every tournament hes been to hes placed extremely well and has only lost to good players and have outplace the bottom and rest of the region every tournament hes been to.

9. Kanto (Stayed the same)- Always places average never falling short of top 10 but never making it to high

10. Sharky (stayed the same)- See kanto

I hope this helped explaine something. Thanks for reading!

 

[altairian]

So apparently Goggles wants to be Inui. Awesome. Good luck with that dude.

 

[TheManaLord]

imo PR should be updated after each tournament. The point of a power ranking is to show outsiders who is good, so they know who to watch out for. At the same time, it motivates players to get on the list, or to get their names higher on the list.

Changing it after each tournament both shows outsiders who was the best at the most recent tournament (averaged with the general placements), and it gives people a lot more incentive to improve.

Just finished making the Massachusetts PR, and that's just my opinion on the matter....

Sorry Sai, but nah that's no good! If it was updated after every tournament absenteeism would not be reflected and we minus well just post the results to our last tournament.

At least two have to happen.


EDIT: I was very enthused to make the melee PR because I just want equal representation in our communities. And it should be used as a tool to inspire and sometimes infuriate smashers into doing better and playing more!

double edit: melee PR will be updated after SS3 or the next big tourny we have (i'm pretty sure it's ss3 somebody inform me otherwise though if that's not the case)

 

[Gaia_x]

I believe and updated pr after every tournament is a good representation of a players skill. Even when someone like lets say m2k does have a bad day. He still places top at most tournament cause he plays consistantly and is a good player. I think the PR should show the players who place well consistantly threw bad times and good times.

If your a good enough player and deserve to be on the higher portion of a pr list you will still place well even on a bad day

 

[da K.I.D.]

when i placed really bad at ss2 I only went down like 1/2 spots because as far as we can tell, that was just a bad day. but after this tourney, which shows consistently that there are at least 12 people better than me in our area, i was taken off completely.

Since we dont have a purely mathematical system for this PR, we can personally account for things like bad days, overly good days, missed tourneys,lucky brackets, and the like.

And since we only have tourneys like once every month to month and a half, it needs to be updated every tourney. because peoples skill levels can change a lot within the time between our tourneys. saying that they shouldnt be updated is like saying, that if a full months worth of hardcore trainging, wont make maverick better than artery clogger, or that i cant become better than tsai with 5 weeks of practice.

 

[Kantō]

its funny cuz i only lost to jesse san and snakeee in the past 2 tourneys...

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

hopefully someday ull beat 1 of em (or even knock 1 of em out of the tournament) ;D

 

[Bwoodboy18]

I'm jealous everyone has the luxury to travel freely to all these tournaments....no wonder everyone knows about you.

If only.....

 

[PoofyHair]

So about those cheescake tournies...

 

[PieDisliker]

I'm jealous everyone has the luxury to travel freely to all these tournaments....no wonder everyone knows about you.

If only.....

Not true.

I was only able to make it to the cuse tournies and didn't even get to play Brawl Singles last tourney.... which is primarily why I believe I'm not on these rankings yet. I don't even know if I'll get on the rankings after SS3 because I'll have only entered twice, while others have attended every of these tournies.

 

[Kantō]

hopefully someday ull beat 1 of em (or even knock 1 of em out of the tournament) ;D

thats my plan

oh yea and thanks KID

 

[Foy]

Teams and MM's in PR is bull****. Its for single performances.

 

[TheManaLord]

updating after every tourny justpost the results then because that represents how much people have practiced right??\

there is a lot more to ranking our players than the results and who they played and how much they practice

 

[TheManaLord]

updating after every tourny justpost the results then because that represents how much people have practiced right??\

there is a lot more to ranking our players than the results and who they played and how much they practice

 

[Foy]

updating after every tourny justpost the results then because that represents how much people have practiced right??\

there is a lot more to ranking our players than the results and who they played and how much they practice

You're a *****. Ill kill you

 

[Sharky]

foy, what I meant was that now that you're actually picking up bawrl I'm predicting that you're gonna get pretty good and become a possible pr threat.

 

[dudutsai]

MMs above $5 have always been taken into account for PRs.
Also I still agree with updating after each tournament with the last list being weighed equally with the most recent tournament.

My reasoning for this is just because it feels like a medium between taking straight results from tournament and waiting two tournaments before updating.

 

[Sharky]

I kinda agree with sai here now. If we were to have biweeklies or something then it'd be different, but we only have tournies once a month at best here, and just about all the major players go to every tournament (except moss/xxx, they need to step it up and come to syracuse sometime), updating every tournament is fairly viable.

 

[san.]

Exibit 1.
KID: Norfair is a horrible stage, it should be banned
Alt: Theres nothing wrong with Norfair.
KID: trust me on this, norfair is really bad.
Alt: No, I swear its a cool stage
*Alt beats jesiah on Norfair*
Alt: Hmmmmm, maybe norfair should be banned.

Exibit B.
Alt: Why is Japes legal, its totally broke.
KID: Trust me on this, Japes will be fine for this tourney.
*KIDs ganon beats Falco, then KIDs Falco loses to Ike*
Alt: ______________________________ (feel free to fill in that blank)

That explains why you randomly went falco + japes on me

 

[PieDisliker]

if you gimme some more info about andy i can come up with a slammin famer tag for him.

What info you lookin' for?

He mains Marth, and uses the white costume.
He also uses Lucario, ZSS, and MK... but Marth is his best by far.

He's even younger than me, too. Not sure what kind of info you're looking for, tho.

Melee Edit:
He mains Jiggs. (I think he's better than me, not sure... but he took a game off of Minh at SS2)

 

[dudutsai]

He's even younger than me, too. Not sure what kind of info you're looking for, tho.

Is this possible?

 

[PieDisliker]

Is this possible?

Yes. I be 15, he be 14 tomorrow.

 

[da K.I.D.]

What info you lookin' for?

He mains Marth, and uses the white costume.
He also uses Lucario, ZSS, and MK... but Marth is his best by far.

He's even younger than me, too. Not sure what kind of info you're looking for, tho.

Melee Edit:
He mains Jiggs. (I think he's better than me, not sure... but he took a game off of Minh at SS2)

White Knight.

its just a start. but what does he think? it has layers... just think about it.

 

[Gaia_x]

goggles your being racist

 

[ViciousEnd]

Friendlies, teams, and money matches should have no bearing what so ever on a power ranking. The only way to remove any bias is to base it purely on tournament results. That is how I had originally done the Rochester power rankings, and it accurately reflected how people performed.

Also, not updating melee, while updating brawl is sort of stupid, because as far as I know the tournaments used to determine brawl, have also had melee at them.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Friendlies, teams, and money matches should have no bearing what so ever on a power ranking. The only way to remove any bias is to base it purely on tournament results. That is how I had originally done the Rochester power rankings, and it accurately reflected how people performed.

Normally id agree with you, but this ends up being only very slightly flawed with the lack of tourneys in our massively spread out region. sometimes when you have people that are very close on the PR and their tourney results are the same you need other small factors to make those distinctions. the first thing that comes to my mind is bry and sharky, to my knowledge, theyve placed the same in just about every tourney, and the only reason bry is higher is because the 2(?) times that they have played in tourneys bry won. if they hadnt actually played, we would need to look at other things to determine who is better.

So far, as far as I know there hasnt been any circumstances where we had to look at anything past singles to make any distinctions on the list. But its still possible that that might happen.

Its not exact, but the way I see it, ranked are basically determine like:

70/80% Singles performance
10/20% Doubles performance
10% Money matches.

The most important event and biggest determining factor is by far singles, but there is a chance that people are so close that you need to use other factors. but even still, no matter how many money matches I win (and I won a fair number of them) thats not going to change the fact that 12 people placed better than me 2 tourneys in a row.

Also, not updating melee, while updating brawl is sort of stupid, because as far as I know the tournaments used to determine brawl, have also had melee at them.

Cura hit me up on aim the day after the tourney wanting to update the list.

Ive still yet to be able to talk to mana since the tourney. So youd have to direct your qualms at him.






WHy is everyone around here so quick to question me and my process, when not only has each iteration of the list been correct, but most of you didnt even care to help me before I made one...

 

[dudutsai]

I would be more than willing to help with Melee, and every PR I've seen has taken into account money matches for more than $5.
I don't think people are questioning you, Goggles. Most people are just curious

 

[altairian]

Goggles the fact that you're so defensive makes us question why you feel you need to be. I made a suggestion and you jumped down my throat, twice. Respect is earned, remember that.

 

[Sheth]

Well, he kinda said why he disagreed with you, and you seemed all up in his face, so defensive seems like the thing to be.

If he's explaining why he's put the rankings the way they are for your benefit when you were questioning the method, giving you the method seems like exactly what you'd want, not some kinda scurrying defense. Chill out, lol.

 

[BluePeachy100]

Why not just make a PR for doubles in general? A few other regions do that... ._.

Friendlies shouldn't count at all, considering no one even tries in them, for the majority anyway. I don't believe MMs should count either.

 

[PieDisliker]

IMO, MMs > Doubles.

As long as they're $5 or more, those matches are actually worth something.

 

[altairian]

Well, he kinda said why he disagreed with you, and you seemed all up in his face, so defensive seems like the thing to be.

If he's explaining why he's put the rankings the way they are for your benefit when you were questioning the method, giving you the method seems like exactly what you'd want, not some kinda scurrying defense. Chill out, lol.

You might want to take a look at the order of events again. But whatever, our region has never done anything in a logical fashion anyway.

 

[BluePeachy100]

IMO, MMs > Doubles.

As long as they're $5 or more, those matches are actually worth something.

How can an MM in any amount less than the grand prize be more important than tournament? If they were all $100 MMs, I could understand, but that makes no sense, those small change MMs can be held off.