Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Louie G.]

Sans as a Newcomer suggestion honestly makes me loathe him. I still believe we need Bomberman, Rayman, Prince of Persia, Ezio etc checked off before he's slotted. Sans is such a shoved character. I really don't want to see him until enough time has passed.

You're welcome to your own opinions on which characters you want to see in the game, but Sans will probably be 10 years old by the time next Smash rolls out and it's pretty valuable to be able to take the old with the new. Undertale is a massive contemporary success and he's the most popular character from the game. When is enough time to determine a character's significance or viability?

The nod to Assassin's Creed helps weigh it out a bit more but the other three characters you mentioned are pushing 30 years old by now - they're all totally valid choices, but I sense that their seniority clouds judgement of who "belongs" in Smash and who doesn't. The older we get the harder it is to determine when someone stops being a new face... I mean, I get why, but many people here will still regard Pikmin or Animal Crossing as newer school Nintendo IPs after 20 years. Undertale still being a popular game 10 years later feels like plenty of time to determine its legacy to me, and Sans wouldn't even be the newest third party character in the game. I'm sorry that you feel that way about him but Undertale is a perfectly valid game to see further representation at this point and for better or worse, Smash isn't always that concerned about checking off boxes based on who's been here first.

I'll go out on a limb and say we could more relative fresh faces as third party picks in general. The 80s and 90s, understandably, get loads of favoritism in this department but the likes of Dark Souls, Nier Automata, Undertale and so forth alongside the games we already have like Persona 5 or Minecraft have been modern classics that help move the industry forward through the 2010s and beyond.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Sans as a Newcomer suggestion honestly makes me loathe him. I still believe we need Bomberman, Rayman, Prince of Persia, Ezio etc checked off before he's slotted. Sans is such a shoved character. I really don't want to see him until enough time has passed.

Literally what do any of those characters have to do with Sans? How are they competing? If you're gonna negatively compare Sans to an alternative, which is valid, compare him to other UT characters, other "meme" characters, other 2010s indies, a 3rd EB rep, e.t.c.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Posted this in the main newcomer thread, but I guess my unpopular opinion is that I always viewed Undertale's triumph being its storytelling and clever use of certain video game conventions than its gameplay. An Undertale section in a Smash campaign with cameos? Absolutely. Its songs in the next sequel? Definitely? More Mii costumes? I'd love to have them.

But I've never really looked at it as a game with central figures that would so obviously translate as fighters. Its why my admitted indie preference is something like Shovel Knight because the core focus is getting versatile but very tight characters to play as and any four of them (Shovel, Plague, Specter, & King) just have so many little things to play with as far as options.

 

[UserKev]

You're welcome to your own opinions on which characters you want to see in the game, but Sans will probably be 10 years old by the time next Smash rolls out and it's pretty valuable to be able to take the old with the new. Undertale is a massive contemporary success and he's the most popular character from the game. When is enough time to determine a character's significance or viability?

The nod to Assassin's Creed helps weigh it out a bit more but the other three characters you mentioned are pushing 30 years old by now - they're all totally valid choices, but I sense that their seniority clouds judgement of who "belongs" in Smash and who doesn't. The older we get the harder it is to determine when someone stops being a new face... I mean, I get why, but many people here will still regard Pikmin or Animal Crossing as newer school Nintendo IPs after 20 years. Undertale still being a popular game 10 years later feels like plenty of time to determine its legacy to me, and Sans wouldn't even be the newest third party character in the game. I'm sorry that you feel that way about him but Undertale is a perfectly valid game to see further representation at this point and for better or worse, Smash isn't always that concerned about checking off boxes based on who's been here first.

I'll go out on a limb and say we could more relative fresh faces as third party picks in general. The 80s and 90s, understandably, get loads of favoritism in this department but the likes of Dark Souls, Nier Automata, Undertale and so forth alongside the games we already have like Persona 5 or Minecraft have been modern classics that help move the industry forward through the 2010s and beyond.

I know of Sans's impact and Undertale's overall success. He's a bit of a meme to me. He's pretty close and kinda opens the "Anything goes" box. I feel like Sans is likely for "For show" reasons. Maybe it is his time, but I'm not in the mood.

Literally what do any of those characters have to do with Sans? How are they competing? If you're gonna negatively compare Sans to an alternative, which is valid, compare him to other UT characters, other "meme" characters, other 2010s indies, a 3rd EB rep, e.t.c.

Wait, what? Dude, I thought you'd back me up Weren't you loathed by Smash's iconic focus over lesser popular picks not too long ago? I wasn't making the notion they were competing. I just feel like Sans is incredibly privileged and favored.

 

[Laniv]

I, for one, would kinda like to see Sans as a fighter... but:

1. In my opinion, every fan moveset I've seen for Sans fails to capture what makes him so liked

2. Appearing as a dud Assist Trophy, where he's summoned and does absolutely nothing, is the role Sans was born to play

 

[Baysha]

2. Appearing as a dud Assist Trophy, where he's summoned and does absolutely nothing, is the role Sans was born to play

Have him be like Resetti but he just says a lame pun and leaves.

 

[Perkilator]

I think Veyle can work as a suitable fallback for representing Engage with a playable character in the event that Sakurai and his team can’t figure out a decent moveset for Alear.

 

[Louie G.]

I know of Sans's impact and Undertale's overall success. He's a bit of a meme to me. He's pretty close and kinda opens the "Anything goes" box. I feel like Sans is likely for "For show" reasons. Maybe it is his time, but I'm not in the mood.

Disagree that Sans is opening up the “anything goes” box any more than we already have, seeing how he is simply a major character from a very popular game. His “meme” status shouldn’t be weighed in any meaningful amount, he’s an inherently goofy character but I don’t think the way a community interacts with a character should influence their individual worth. Anyone who has played the game is aware he’s also one of its most compelling and significant characters in a vacuum. He’s popular by his own merit.

What about Sans would be conceptually sillier or more abstract than Piranha Plant, or more jarring and out of place than Steve? The truth is, Sans being in the game won’t move that dial any further than it already has been. The only thing really strange about it is that he’d be the first character inarguably from an indie game, which shouldn’t really be that weird since there are plenty of indie titles reaching near AAA levels of acclaim (or surpassing them outright), Undertale being one of the biggest.

Again, anyone who isn’t convinced about Undertale or Sans is welcome to feel whatever way about them but I disagree with the prospect that it’s any less fitting, deserving or firmly cemented in the greater gaming canon than several third parties we’ve already gotten. Undertale is older now than Bayonetta was during Smash 4, or Joker during Ultimate. It’s probably time to stop treating it like a passing fad.

 

[Pupp135]

I think Veyle can work as a suitable fallback for representing Engage with a playable character in the event that Sakurai and his team can’t figure out a decent moveset for Alear.

As I feel like Alear would only engage with one Emblem if (s)he is playable, I feel like Veyle would end up being a more interesting addition gameplay-wise if we were to add a character from Engage.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

My indies-in-Smash hot takes are that:

1. Speaking as a non-fan, genocide-based Sans and Frisk/Chara are the least interesting UT picks. Pacifist-based Sans would be pretty cool though, even if I'd prefer Undyne or Mettaton.
2. Speaking as a fan, the Devil and especially King Dice are way better Smash picks than Cuphead. If they do end up going with Cuphead, it'd be a crime to make his moveset based on the finger guns instead of cartoon gags.
3. In general, I feel like if Smash embraces indies, at least one - be it a costume or a full player character - should be a literal nobody. I was a pretty big Peppino supporter before Pizza Tower blew up, but now it's a meme and household name, he doesn't really have as much appeal.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I feel that trailers and Amiibos are the root of the problems with Smash's rosters as they exist today. Trailers give character additions too many stakes for fans, making everything a big show and discouraging experimentation at the risk of pissing off people who have been trained to see the trailers as part of the product instead of marketing, and Amiibos give character additions too many stakes for Nintendo corporate, meaning every character needs to be statistically ensured to make back manufacturing money as a plastic figure as well as as DLC - when, IMO, a playable Smash character should just be a silly, inconsequential footnote cameo. If EIH continues to be a thing, that will have catastrophic effects on the roster as well.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel that trailers and Amiibos are the root of the problems with Smash's rosters as they exist today. Trailers give character additions too many stakes for fans, making everything a big show and discouraging experimentation at the risk of pissing off people who have been trained to see the trailers as part of the product instead of marketing, and Amiibos give character additions too many stakes for Nintendo corporate, meaning every character needs to be statistically ensured to make back manufacturing money as a plastic figure as well as as DLC - when, IMO, a playable Smash character should just be a silly, inconsequential footnote cameo. If EIH continues to be a thing, that will have catastrophic effects on the roster as well.

if amiibos were affecting the roster then surely they wouldn’t keep rendering the characters in poses that are difficult to make stand

 

[Oracle Link]

• It would be really neat and creative if Smash took a different approach to characters' aesthetic designs and gave every fighter their own Smash-original costumes, much like how Kingdom Hearts completely redesigned Cloud and Sephiroth for the context of its story.
• On a similar note, while the Multiversus costume system wasn't as fleshed out as it should've been, I like it's concept better than Smash's. Color swaps have their place but it'd be neat if we had more Smash costumes that were completely new models based on alternate designs, though I understand why a roster of 80+ characters doesn't do that.
• The customization system of Multiversus (and PSAS) with different taunts and entrance animations would be cool to see carried over into Smash, giving players more ways to personalize their copy just allows for greater interaction with the game and it's characters and is purely beneficial if not for microtransactions.
• I wouldn't mind if Smash took a "Games as a Service" approach; It's a system that, if done well, could actually lend itself to benefitting a future Smash game, allowing as many character additions as possible, and leading to less cuts.
• Echoes do not need to be reclassified and removing them has never served any purpose
• Sakurai's comments about Snake's performance in the Ballot lead me to believe he is less likely to be cut in future games
• Fortnite could easily become the next Minecraft when it comes to it's inclusion in Smash, and I would go as far to say it's already on that path
• While I have no stake in Kingdom Hearts, it would not be the end of the world if Goofy and Donald or other Disney characters made cameos. I could go either way with it.
• On the topic of "Fourth Party" content, it would be really cool if music from Crossover games such as Marvel vs. Capcom is included in some future Smash, or licensed songs from existing games such as Moon River from Bayonetta
• Brawl still has the best music

Depends if lets say we only have one link in the game a smash original teen link would be a decent compromise!

Definitly i wanna see much more diffrent models! And i think the name echo should be reserved for characters like chrom or ken while if only animations change it should be an alt!

On that note i would love if you can choose diffrent sword and shields for Toon/ adult link! that way i can have both an early game and endgame link!
Same for characters like cloud especially cause the buster sword is useless past midgar so adding ultima would be cool!

I technically dont have an issue with a smash as a service as long as
1. The Original smash service starts with 50+ Characters
2. it doesnt devolve into microtransactions and battle passes
and 3. every new console gives us a new version with all the content from last console included

Depends in a couple of cases you could argue making them costumes! but i do think that daisy for example is fine as an echo! (now)

Well Fortnite does make sense as its long established i just think that nowadays no one cares about the fortnite og characters unlike steve who is still really iconic

If Donald and goofy make cameos i demand that no one descredites Videospiel-Man just because i had no choice but to make him a comic! if you want descredit him for being me (or not iconic/ finnished) fine but bro is more of a game character than jessie, james, donald and goofy amongst other picks and costumes that are regarded fine!

That makes decent sense!

Depends: Zero two, samus theme and mushroom kingdom arent exactly my favourites!

I feel that trailers and Amiibos are the root of the problems with Smash's rosters as they exist today. Trailers give character additions too many stakes for fans, making everything a big show and discouraging experimentation at the risk of pissing off people who have been trained to see the trailers as part of the product instead of marketing, and Amiibos give character additions too many stakes for Nintendo corporate, meaning every character needs to be statistically ensured to make back manufacturing money as a plastic figure as well as as DLC - when, IMO, a playable Smash character should just be a silly, inconsequential footnote cameo. If EIH continues to be a thing, that will have catastrophic effects on the roster as well.

I think a fix to this is making some characters free updates and making some trailers with 2 characters for example a kirby trailer with BWD and A Final boss is still really hype i think!
But i also think smash being the celebration of gaming was a mistake!
Also yeah EIH isnt required as long as most popular nintendo caharcters return im fine!
(for example dont cut toon link but you could cut young!)
(or swap some pokemon/ fire emblem reps out)

 

[Lenidem]

I feel that trailers and Amiibos are the root of the problems with Smash's rosters as they exist today. Trailers give character additions too many stakes for fans, making everything a big show and discouraging experimentation at the risk of pissing off people who have been trained to see the trailers as part of the product instead of marketing, and Amiibos give character additions too many stakes for Nintendo corporate, meaning every character needs to be statistically ensured to make back manufacturing money as a plastic figure as well as as DLC - when, IMO, a playable Smash character should just be a silly, inconsequential footnote cameo. If EIH continues to be a thing, that will have catastrophic effects on the roster as well.

I really don't get this "who gets in doesn't matter at all" stance.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't know how unpopular this is, but it's moreso a tough pill to swallow - many of Sonic's shortcomings in Smash are probably Sega's fault, not Sakurai's. I'll refrain from talking much about his moveset, but the other aspects of Sonic's design and the representation of his content are definitely worth assessing and I think have pretty good, albeit unfortunate explanations for why they are the way they are.

Smash almost never walks back how fluidly or expressively a character moves. Animation only gets better from game to game, and characters get more emotive. The opposite is true for Sonic, and while that's extremely disappointing in the context of Smash... it does also correlate with the way he was represented in his games at the time. Sonic has only really reverted to being as expressive as he was in Brawl, and prior to that era, in Sonic Frontiers so hopefully that will be carried over into his next Smash appearance. But you look at the most recent titles at the time as reference, Sonic Lost World and Sonic Forces for Smash 4 and Ultimate respectively, it's clear that this was a very sterile period for the character. Perhaps as an overcorrection toward criticism of the campiness within the 2000s era titles that received much ridicule at the time.

Third parties presumably need to be tended to more strictly than other characters and it's of the utmost importance to keep them in line with the brand or what the company is comfortable with. Some companies are more lenient than others, but Sonic is Sega's golden boy and as such there are aspects that they must feel strongly about - Sonic always must be some shade of blue, for example. My theory regarding the previous bit is if Sakurai approached Sega for updated model sheets or reference, based on the games coming out at the time, it would make sense that it brought us here instead.

Then of course there's Sonic's music. I'm thinking back on Terry's presentation a bit, where Sakurai stated he and the team narrowed their selection down to 50 songs and sent them over for SNK to, at least presumably at the time, select 10-20 that would be suitable. It's reasonable to assume this is how it's worked with most of Smash's other partners. Sega likely opted to prioritize main themes and first level tracks themselves. With Sonic in particular, the music rights are notoriously odd but the conditions behind our one arrangement are even stranger. Since Angel Island Zone is a "Sega Sound Team" arrangement done by Jun Senoue, they have been able to use it in other Sonic games such as Sonic Origins most recently. Was this a condition that Sonic arrangements must be made under? Is this why we haven't bothered with any new ones? It's very speculative, but it's pretty fascinating and I've only seen it happen with Sonic.

On the bright side, ever since around the time Ultimate came out Sonic has been seeing somewhat of a renaissance. It feels like Sega has been letting it cross over with a lot of different games, brands, whatever. He's become a multimedia powerhouse again and that's because they've loosened the reigns and are letting him be everywhere. Frontiers (and the movies) are the most expressive Sonic has been in 3D in quite some time. It makes sense that Ultimate would carry over much of what was already founded in Smash 4, but maybe next game will see another refreshed version of Sonic with more of his positive traits restored with less restrictions.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I don't know how unpopular this is, but it's moreso a tough pill to swallow - many of Sonic's shortcomings in Smash are probably Sega's fault, not Sakurai's. I'll refrain from talking much about his moveset, but the other aspects of Sonic's design and the representation of his content are definitely worth assessing and I think have pretty good, albeit unfortunate explanations for why they are the way they are.

View attachment 387585

Smash almost never walks back how fluidly or expressively a character moves. Animation only gets better from game to game, and characters get more emotive. The opposite is true for Sonic, and while that's extremely disappointing in the context of Smash... it does also correlate with the way he was represented in his games at the time. Sonic has only really reverted to being as expressive as he was in Brawl, and prior to that era, in Sonic Frontiers so hopefully that will be carried over into his next Smash appearance. But you look at the most recent titles at the time as reference, Sonic Lost World and Sonic Forces for Smash 4 and Ultimate respectively, it's clear that this was a very sterile period for the character. Perhaps as an overcorrection toward criticism of the campiness within the 2000s era titles that received much ridicule at the time.

Third parties, presumably need to be tended to more strictly than other characters and it's of the utmost importance to keep them in line with the brand or what the company is comfortable with. Some companies are more lenient than others, but Sonic is Sega's golden boy and as such there are aspects that they must feel strongly about - Sonic always must be some shade of blue, for example. My theory regarding the previous bit is if Sakurai approached Sega for updated model sheets or reference, based on the games coming out at the time, it would make sense that it brought us here instead.

Then of course there's Sonic's music. I'm thinking back on Terry's presentation a bit, where Sakurai stated he and the team narrowed their selection down to 50 songs and sent them over for SNK to, at least presumably at the time, select 10-20 that would be suitable. It's reasonable to assume this is how it's worked with most of Smash's other partners. Sega likely opted to prioritize main themes and first level tracks themselves. With Sonic in particular, the music rights are notoriously odd but the conditions behind our one arrangement are even stranger. Since Angel Island Zone is a "Sega Sound Team" arrangement done by Jun Senoue, they have been able to use it in other Sonic games such as Sonic Origins most recently. Was this a condition that Sonic arrangements must be made under? Is this why we haven't bothered with any new ones? It's very speculative, but it's pretty fascinating and I've only seen it happen with Sonic.

On the bright side, ever since around the time Ultimate came out Sonic has been seeing somewhat of a renaissance. It feels like Sega has been letting it cross over with a lot of different games, brands, whatever. He's become a multimedia powerhouse again and that's because they've loosened the reigns and are letting him be everywhere. Frontiers (and the movies) are the most expressive Sonic has been in 3D in quite some time. It makes sense that Ultimate would carry over much of what was already founded in Smash 4, but maybe next game will see another refreshed version of Sonic with more of his positive traits restored with less restrictions.

I don't really buy "Corporate forced the artists to do yadda yadda" narriatives most of the time, but there is absolutely proof out there of Sega restricting Sonic's emotional range around that time. Some say it was a response to Penders (Sonic News Network used to pin it on Penders, but has since revised the article), I'd blame it on 06, but we'll never really know. At the very least, we have the visual evidence.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't really buy "Corporate forced the artists to do yadda yadda" narriatives most of the time, but there is absolutely proof out there of Sega restricting Sonic's emotional range around that time. Some say it was a response to Penders, I'd blame it on 06, but we'll never really know.

I think people place a bit more power on Penders than Sega ever did. The mass rejection of Sonic 06 and, at the time, ridicule of Unleashed probably did a lot more to discourage Sega from taking risks and letting Sonic be silly or emotive a lot more than the comics would have. No doubt on top of the storybook games seeing middling critical response and Secret Rings having a particularly corny, sentimental ending.

Maybe it was a combination of factors, but no doubt it was Sonic's dwindling reputation through his mainline titles that would have caused a more drastic shift. I'm just speculating just as well as anyone else but I think that's way more important to the brand. It certainly explains why on top of the lack of emotion was the quippy "self aware" dialogue that Colors has kind of become infamous for pioneering now.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sonic's status within Sega is a complicated issue in general. Even the lack of acts against fan games could very well be related to how Sega Sammy shifted their decision making after the merger (see this video):

I think there was an overall move towards safer Sonic releases (especially with the costs of HD development) that did have the company pivoting away from games that felt excessively experimental and an unstated motivation to make Sonic less of a punchline after the infamy of the mid to late 00s Dark Age.

Sonic in Smash may very well have been a part of that; keeping him within the limits of a certain image while they figured out precisely what to do with him. It's not too dissimilar to the tighter reins with IDW after SoJ likely felt that the Archie line's popularity allowed it to drift too much from the how they wanted the IP to be presented.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of factors that lead to Sonic being portrayed the way he was for awhile. Doesn't help that not even the fanbase can seem to agree on the best way to portray him (I've seen people who bash Ian Flynn's writing only to then prop up Ken Penders as a good writer: you can't trust ANYBODY in this fandom). Hopefully Sega being less strict will have a positive impact now that they seem to be aware of the benefits of such a mindset.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've seen people who bash Ian Flynn's writing only to then prop up Ken Penders as a good writer: you can't trust ANYBODY in this fandom

How does liking a bad Sonic comic make someone "untrustworthy"????

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Basically, whether intended or not, the Sonic IP has ended up creating many disparate fandoms whether they be games/movies/TV shows/comics. Given the contrasting tones/emphases/styles it's not a surprise that contemporary Sega finds itself in a tricky place in trying to create Sonic media with large scale appeal.

 

[chocolatejr9]

How does liking a bad Sonic comic make someone "untrustworthy"????

Well, I'm not sure the best way to explain it, but once you figure out WHY those comics were bad, it kinda makes you question the people who like them.

But that's getting off topic, so it might be best to drop it.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the Peach’s Castle stage in Melee should’ve been Bowser’s Castle instead. Just change the layout slightly, add a Fire Bar hazard, and BOOM: instant Bowser stage.

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

I think the Peach’s Castle stage in Melee should’ve been Bowser’s Castle instead. Just change the layout slightly, add a Fire Bar hazard, and BOOM: instant Bowser stage.

I feel like something similar could have been done by turning Rainbow Ride into an Airship stage.

 

[Perkilator]

Tbh I hope the next game has more relatively laid-back stages and stage layouts. That’s not to say none of them can have a unique gimmick or the like, I just don’t want them to go overboard with the gimmicks.

 

[UserKev]

Tbh I hope the next game has more relatively laid-back stages and stage layouts. That’s not to say none of them can have a unique gimmick or the like, I just don’t want them to go overboard with the gimmicks.

Smash 64 especially nailed the calmer approach. When you look at

or

Their quiet, interesting and relaxing and quite engaging. Smash stages aren't as immersive as they used to be. Smash stages post Brawl mostly feel more "arena centric" rather than creative cardboard cutouts with subtly unique imagination.

 

[ninjahmos]

I actually think Ganondorf as a Captain Falcon clone (with a few notable differences) kinda works in an odd way.

 

[Perkilator]

Even if Smash does eventually do the concept of buying/earning costumes for characters other than the Mii Fighters, it should be restricted to unlocking them through gameplay or buying them with in-game currency (preferably with nothing resembling microtransactions attached).

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've already made my disdain for Smash trailers clear, but it really rubs me the wrong way that all new Smash characters get individual CGI trailers while most of Nintendo's other game reveal trailers, including major titles like Mario Wonder and BOTW, either open straight into gameplay footage, a recycled cutscene, or basic text. Putting aside my personal gripes with Smash cameos being built up as important, I'm just really put off by the idea of being a developer for say, Mario Party, and seeing the game I worked on being revealed with narration over B-roll, and then Sora's cameo in Smash being given a bombastic Disney-quality cinematic trailer only a week later.

Compare the Arms reveal trailer - primarily live action footage with some CGI sections in a barren warehouse with only 2 characters and a bunch of disembodied arms - and the Min Min Smash reveal trailer - fully animated with proper backgrounds and the near entire cast of Arms portrayed in person. When you put them side by side it's actually shocking, and Arms has one of the higher budget recent non-Smash Nintendo trailers too.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the way the Squid Sisters function as an Assist Trophy should've been the Inkling's Final Smash.

 

[Quillion]

I think the idea of modern Smash de-emphasizing combos is perfectly valid, and is actually great in theory.

...but if they really want to push that idea, they need to de-emphasize the focus on keep-away and zoning and make a lot of moves kill earlier. Maybe throw in a little 2-3 hit combos like the days of Street Fighter 2, but mainly the former idea.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the next Smash’s Adventure Mode should thematically go all-in with the aesthetic of the Dragon King prototype, with a literal Dragon King as the main villain.

 

[UserKev]

I think the next Smash’s Adventure Mode should thematically go all-in with the aesthetic of the Dragon King prototype, with a literal Dragon King as the main villain.

I literally thought of them a couple days ago. If not this idea, they should definitely be the next 30 man team.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

I think the next Smash’s Adventure Mode should thematically go all-in with the aesthetic of the Dragon King prototype, with a literal Dragon King as the main villain.

Technically smash wasn’t called Dragon King, it was called Ryou which does mean dragon king but refers to the Japanese town.

 

[Quillion]

Smash needs to abandon the idea of needing fighters to represent "recent stuff" in rotating cast franchises like Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade.

They should instead focus on "non character asset" representation when it comes to "recent stuff", and if any of those franchises need new characters, focus on the more "marketing mainstay" characters like Eevee, Lyn, and Melia.

Or if fighters are needed for "recent stuff", Sakurai needs to change his attitude towards cuts.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

If any of those franchises need new characters, focus on the more "marketing mainstay" characters like Eevee, Lyn, and Melia.

I agree with this post aside from this - I think recency picks and enduring-popularity picks are an equal poison in too much quantity, the focus should really be on whatever the devs think is most fun, even if it doesn't make objective sense. That would, of course, include characters of either category as well as fan demand picks, but they wouldn't be a priority nor would their inclusion specifically be because of fulfiling those criteria.

 

[Quillion]

I agree with this post aside from this - I think recency picks and enduring-popularity picks are an equal poison in too much quantity, the focus should really be on whatever the devs think is most fun, even if it doesn't make objective sense. That would, of course, include characters of either category as well as fan demand picks, but they wouldn't be a priority nor would their inclusion specifically be because of fulfiling those criteria.

Considering that either "recency" and "enduring popularity" picks lean towards more "main characters", and a lot has been written about side characters being more interesting than MCs (example 1, example 2, example 3), I can't really disagree.

That said, there's always the issue of Smash's nature as a crossover. Even though they've subscribed to the ****ty "random references" and "close recreation of source" methods of moveset design with Smash 4 and on, they're kinda locked in to having to represent these franchises on top of being fun even in the 64-Brawl "balanced" school of moveset design. Also, the characters I had in mind are side characters to begin with.

 

[fogbadge]

I agree with this post aside from this - I think recency picks and enduring-popularity picks are an equal poison in too much quantity, the focus should really be on whatever the devs think is most fun, even if it doesn't make objective sense. That would, of course, include characters of either category as well as fan demand picks, but they wouldn't be a priority nor would their inclusion specifically be because of fulfiling those criteria.

well we've had some of that with corrin and incineroar

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When it comes to recency picks, they actually make sense beyond "yeah, they're recent."

The thing is? Smash is an absolute advertisement. What does that also mean? A lot of newcomers will make people interested in their series. How does that matter? It means that if you want to play as the character in their home game, you need to be able to purchase said game in some way. This also means if said game doesn't exist outside of emulator, the advertisement factor is more hurtful towards the company. So making sure to have some more recent picks instead of just older characters is very good for business in itself.

Think of it this way; Nintendo does not like people pirating games. Sakurai is well aware of these kind of things to begin with. Like, it's common knowledge. This means that by picking lots of characters with no releases, Nintendo now has to suddenly focus more on old products being released... but some aren't even in the West, now are they? They now have to spend time and money to translate some of these games. And some they can't throw on without licensing issues either or other various problems(Hint: They don't fully own a lot of games on their systems. Certain rights, even for a Nintendo exclusive, are tied to another person. It's not a coincidence Mother 3 isn't in English yet. There's a lot they need to figure out if they ever want to re-release it. EarthBound had similar issues too). Let's also note this is part of why it was even considered for Marth and Roy to not come overseas at the time, or for that matter, why Ness was deliberately kept in Brawl, as they couldn't bring Lucas in alone when they can't even have an overseas sale.

This doesn't adhere to every single character either. It's just more of an attempt to pick closely mostly recency picks to make sure business is kept well. Also, it should be noted that every single third party did have an active product in some way you could obtain, or was really easy to do without pirating. It may have also came out a bit later, but they still existed somewhere. They're all business decisions. A completely dead third party(you can't count B&K when you were able to play them on the latest Xbox in some way) is a very bad pick if nobody can make even a tad of money off of its advertisement factor. It seems cheeky, but it's the only way a crossover like this can be easily worked with.

I want more picks from older stuff too. And some aren't going to have that issue. Most Pokemon picks are clearly possible to get games related to said Pokemon without issues. Fire Emblem is not the case in the same way. Some characters do not have games out, and FE Heroes isn't exactly the best way to make it work. It's still an awesome thing to have exist(since it overall is a great way to show off tons of cool characters). Promotional Picks are understandably not that popular, but it overall is the best approach to make sure everything goes smoothly as much as possible. As long as pirating exists, what is basically a series that does high advertising absolutely will try to make sure said piracy is unlikely. In fact, the "timing of who gets in" is literally based around having an active product so said character at least advertises something you should be able to find. Respectively, a lot of other fighting games don't worry as much about that, outside of Crossovers, and they clearly are less advertisey than Smash inherently(they still do newer characters too, of course). It's just not the same effect since said games also rotate members and cut far more frequently than Smash dares to. That's kind of a big deal.

 

[Quillion]

Verde Coeden Scalesworth : If they really want to push Smash as more of a vehicle for advertising other games, they should make it so that it's a late console release celebrating thing on the console it's already on rather than an early console release essentially celebrating the previous console.