Twin Christmas Parties 3+4 Mafia {The Matryoshka Scandal.} ~ Over! Who had the merriest Christmas? Who got lumps of coal?

[Overswarm]

That's not up to us to explain, that's up to you. If you've got a problem with expressing the theme throw it out there. Don't feed us along hoping we say something that lets you wriggle out of this.

If you don't want to release the theme, that must mean you have a good reason. So you can tell us.

Feel free to lay on the votes, people. We have a good D1 lynch if this goes how I think it's gonna go.

 

[sneakytako]

Pressuing me still won't make me out the theme on day 1. Mafia will gain a strong advantage if they understand the theme.

We probably aren't on the same side are we OS. I don't believe after understanding that mafia may not have communication/identification day 1 you would push me this hard as town. Do you want to play a game of attrition when I flip?

Vote: OS

 

[sneakytako]

EBWOP: I forgot to unvote my old vote.

Unvote
Vote : OS

 

[Overswarm]

Pressuing me still won't make me out the theme on day 1. Mafia will gain a strong advantage if they understand the theme.

We probably aren't on the same side are we OS. I don't believe after understanding that mafia may not have communication/identification day 1 you would push me this hard as town. Do you want to play a game of attrition when I flip?

Vote: OS

Still waitin' to hear that reason on what strong advantage they're gonna get if they understand the theme.

 

[sneakytako]

There's a reason why I want it to come out of someone else's mouth... post.

 

[Overswarm]

There's a reason why I want it to come out of someone else's mouth... post.

Because you didn't realize that outing that you had the theme would come back to bite you and are looking for a way out, I'd imagine.

I have no reason whatsoever to care about what you want.

But you DO have the theme and we CAN just lynch you and just be in the same situation we're in right now with one less scum.

If you've got a reason we shouldn't all know the theme, spill it. I'm really interested to see this.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Haven't read yet. Been busy with something else and trying to not get involved till I lay hands on Gova who I was going to hydra with, but want to see if he's game after the slow start.

Wanted to respond to OS post. I was scum in last year's party mafia. There were three in an eighteen man and I was an on-death Yakuza.

I knew my scummates and controlled the kill, although I did not ever get the flavor while alive. Both my scummates did not know their mates, but learned them upon solving the flavor. Both solved the flavor before I died and they could communicate, although not with me and I still controlled the night kill.

/mechanics.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Went to buy stamps and that didn't go through. Haven't read recent convo either.

 

[Overswarm]

Wanted to respond to OS post. I was scum in last year's party mafia. There were three in an eighteen man and I was an on-death Yakuza.

How many indies?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Two maybe? I remember one was Dolores Umbridge (I think Circus maybe) and I want to say there was another. It's in the archive as Halloween Party mafia.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Make that Harry Potter Mafia.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13581397&postcount=2203

One indy and my original role PM.

 

[Overswarm]

3 + Yak + 2 indie = 6

6 presents under a separate tree


3 mafia at minimum

2-3 indies

possibly Yak repeat

possible cultist/recruiting game but that'd be insane with this setup.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not sold on Yak making a comeback. Voldemort fit the role and the game. There were two nonrecruitable roles and he was a strange sort of Yak that could theoretically (but not likely) fail.

4 mafia is a safer bet.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13581597&postcount=2222

Actual roles.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13581718&postcount=2235

Scum roles.

 

[Overswarm]

Do you think it would have been better or worse for town if they had figured out the theme early on in that game?

 

[sneakytako]

But then again there's a chance that you guys might not catch on so

What is the purpose for solving the theme as a group for town? We benifit by understanding all past lynches and future lynches. But on day 1, solving the theme gives no immediate benifit other than person PR benifits.

But what about mafia? Understand that I believe strongly of what OS has said about rule 13 from the beginning. They will have no private communication in the beggining of the game. Which means that they have to solve their present in order to gain these basic powers. In general I would like to prevent mafia from gaining their private communication as long as possible, but eventually town will have to solve the theme.

So like I was saying, Pros/Cons of revealing the theme day 1:

Pro - Town gets closer to gaining full powers
All FUTURE lynches would be revealed when flipped.
Con - Mafia gets closer to gaining full powers
Mafia gets closer to gaining REGULAR powers.

Why would we not wait until day 2 to understand theme? The benifit that mafia gain by communication/identification far outweigh the benifit of getting closer to having full town powers, especially since our guesses are so limited on day 1.

Now considering that mafia would be thirsty for information right off the bat I tried to prevent the flow of hints/theme clues to everyone as much as possible, while watching for people baiting conversation about the theme. Right off the Bat Soup/Raz comes to mind. Then I wanted to see if I could tell who desperately wanted the theme to be revealed, so I announced knowing the theme knowing that this would gather a lot of mafia attention while having low odds of even having a doc to protect me (OS/Raz comes to mind). Conversely if I was mafia I would have never made this play, I would have simply laid back and waited for opportunities to drop hints.

The reason why I vote OS over Raz is because I believe he really understand all of this, but sees an opportunity to still push for theme while somewhat identifying his possible teamates. Other people I can't tell if they didn't realize how handicapped mafia is atm.

TLDR: Pretty much don't discuss the theme until day 2.

 

[Raziek]

You're actually ****ing ********.

Actually.

Did you not read what Ryker said about the last game?

There's a damn good chance mafia learns their partners as soon as they learn their alignment, which is solving Layer 1.

Sheerly by NUMBERS town gets infinitely more benefit out of knowing our roles and information.

 

[sneakytako]

Please ISO my posts if you guys don't believe I'm being genuine, I had this plan from day 0.

 

[Overswarm]

Now considering that mafia would be thirsty for information right off the bat I tried to prevent the flow of hints/theme clues to everyone as much as possible, while watching for people baiting conversation about the theme. Right off the Bat Soup/Raz comes to mind. Then I wanted to see if I could tell who desperately wanted the theme to be revealed, so I announced knowing the theme knowing that this would gather a lot of mafia attention while having low odds of even having a doc to protect me (OS/Raz comes to mind). Conversely if I was mafia I would have never made this play, I would have simply laid back and waited for opportunities to drop hints.

The reason why I vote OS over Raz is because I believe he really understand all of this, but sees an opportunity to still push for theme while somewhat identifying his possible teamates. Other people I can't tell if they didn't realize how handicapped mafia is atm.

TLDR: Pretty much don't discuss the theme until day 2.

Why are you assuming mafia do not have a night kill? How do you know this?

In Ryker's game they started with a night kill and one already knew his partners.

You remember that your partners are traveling cat and Soupamario. Neither of them seem to remember the same.
Remember: no private communication!

Despite being an amnesiac, you (and you alone) can choose (and carry out) your faction's nightly kill. You do not kill on Night 0.

Why are you assuming mafia don't have a night kill?



Unless you believe that they have a night kill and you're just worried about them having a quick topic. If that is the case I'm confused because if I was scum I would HAPPILY remove my quick topic for the ability to have all lynches flip as ???? for as long as possible.

 

[sneakytako]

But they can't talk to each other, which is HUGE. Not only can they not coordinate their NK, but they can't share information about their present amongst each other - how they solved, what their hints mean, how to keep town from understanding the theme, etc.

And OS where am I assuming that they have no NK? It's day 1, there has been no NK.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

@Sworddancer. My experience is relatively minimal, compared to most of this playerlist. Here's my games

Newbie 20 MLP
Newbie 21 Megaman Zero
Hunter X Hunter
Bust-a-Move/Puzzle Bobble

Was Town in all those games. Closest thing I have to experience as Mafia is that I was a Mason in BaM/PB, so I had private communication with Tako, who played uber scummy for all of D1 and I had to protect him.

Speaking of Tako being scummy, I have to agree with OS here. If I was scum, I'd much rather have the town gain no info on flips than have team communication. Lets be real here, scum faction doesn't need to communicate to be effective. In fact, them not knowing their teammates actively interferes with Town's ability to read their interactions with one another. You should be outting the theme.

 

[Overswarm]

But they can't talk to each other, which is HUGE. Not only can they not coordinate their NK, but they can't share information about their present amongst each other - how they solved, what their hints mean, how to keep town from understanding the theme, etc.

And OS where am I assuming that they have no NK? It's day 1, there has been no NK.

When you said "regular powers", I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you meant "night kill and quicktopic".

Because just saying no quick topic is, well, pretty silly. It's not like mafia is going to accidentally kill themselves; Nabe already solved that problem in the last game, I doubt he'd introduce it in this one.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Do you think it would have been better or worse for town if they had figured out the theme early on in that game?

Better overall possibly but that was because both of my scummates figured it out super quick, however, had I known my role, I would've SUPER abused it.

 

[Overswarm]

Better overall possibly but that was because both of my scummates figured it out super quick, however, had I known my role, I would've SUPER abused it.

So basically it comes down to roles, then.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

vote: Sneaky tako

 

[Circus]

Two maybe? I remember one was Dolores Umbridge (I think Circus maybe) and I want to say there was another. It's in the archive as Halloween Party mafia.

Nah, man, I was Snape. Town. Figured out the flavor D1 and you promptly killed me N1.

 

[Circus]

Also, in regards to theme speculation, I really don't see why outing the theme is a bad idea at this point as long as you're not stupid enough to out any abilities you might now know you have.

At the very least, I honestly think it's necessary for everyone to get through the first layer of their box before we can get to any good scumhunting. Swords, for example, currently claims to not know his alignment (and maybe he really doesn't) and thinks that makes him essentially deathproof for now. I don't like that way of thinking at all. I don't want anyone to be able to make that excuse. I want everyone to know which side they're on as soon as possible, and I want to be able to hold them to that knowledge.

 

[JTB]

I've read up but I'm on.gy phone so i can't say much now

For now, the deadline is set to 9/7, iS that a hint?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Votecount 1-2

10/18 to lynch.

Le Bateleur [3]: soup, Chuckie, Ranmaru
sneakytako [3]: Overswarm, Raziek, Red Ryu
soup [2]: Potassium, Jdietz43
July [1]: J
Overswarm [1]: sneakytako

Not voting: Circus, Sworddancer., July, Ryker, Le Bateleur, Private-Joker Brown, JTB, Kary

------------------------------------------------------------

[collapse=Vote Log] Circus
Overswarm > sneakytako
Ranmaru > Le Bateleur
Sworddancer.
July
sneakytako > Red Ryu > Overswarm > Unvote > Overswarm
J > July
Ryker
Le Bateleur
Private-Joker Brown
Raziek > sneakytako
Chuckie > Le Bateleur
Jdietz43 > soup
ѕoup > Le Bateleur
JTB
Kary
Potassium > soup
Red Ryu > Potassium > Ranmaru > sneakytako > sneakytako
[/collapse]

Deadline is November 7th at 15:00 Eastern.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

For now, the deadline is set to 9/7, iS that a hint?

"9/7" in the thread title was in error and has been fixed.
Deadline is 11/7.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

More votes on Sneaky if he doesn't out the theme.

 

[ranmaru]

So like I was saying, Pros/Cons of revealing the theme day 1:

Pro - Town gets closer to gaining full powers
All FUTURE lynches would be revealed when flipped.
Con - Mafia gets closer to gaining full powers
Mafia gets closer to gaining REGULAR powers.

Why would we not wait until day 2 to understand theme? The benifit that mafia gain by communication/identification far outweigh the benifit of getting closer to having full town powers, especially since our guesses are so limited on day 1.

The con is negated once you figure out that people can just find out their alignment from going through layer one. A con of not outing the theme is wasting the day on theme/guessing discussion, which makes it harder to find scum. Rather it's a distraction, such as you being voted to out the theme. If we just out the theme now we can have time to discuss wagons/lynching, and then can have time to think about who to target/how to do so regarding our own roles. Remember that Mafia already have information, while Town doesn't. Going one day without some role information can hurt us.

Do you actually know the theme? If you don't want mafia to figure out the theme so quickly, why not give hints to the town of what the theme may be?

 

[ranmaru]

Also, in regards to theme speculation, I really don't see why outing the theme is a bad idea at this point as long as you're not stupid enough to out any abilities you might now know you have.

At the very least, I honestly think it's necessary for everyone to get through the first layer of their box before we can get to any good scumhunting. Swords, for example, currently claims to not know his alignment (and maybe he really doesn't) and thinks that makes him essentially deathproof for now. I don't like that way of thinking at all. I don't want anyone to be able to make that excuse. I want everyone to know which side they're on as soon as possible, and I want to be able to hold them to that knowledge.

Mmm. I'm not able to go through my first layer yet, because of my present opening strategy. Can you point out (quote) where you see Swords having a deathproof mindset?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I said it at the very top of my 143 Ran.

Also, in regards to theme speculation, I really don't see why outing the theme is a bad idea at this point as long as you're not stupid enough to out any abilities you might now know you have.

At the very least, I honestly think it's necessary for everyone to get through the first layer of their box before we can get to any good scumhunting. Swords, for example, currently claims to not know his alignment (and maybe he really doesn't) and thinks that makes him essentially deathproof for now. I don't like that way of thinking at all. I don't want anyone to be able to make that excuse. I want everyone to know which side they're on as soon as possible, and I want to be able to hold them to that knowledge.

It's not like I did this on purpose, and if I tried to do this any longer than Night 1 I would be dogpiled.

I'm not going to lie and not say that I haven't noticed there's a benefit to me still being an amnesic though.

W.r.t. the bold, you're implying that I might be lying about still being a complete amnesic. There's nothing I can say to that, it's up to you to make that call. All I can do is assume that I'm town and act accordingly.

So, what do you think Circus? Am I lying or not?

Also, have you've opened any of your present yet?

---

Tako, I understand why you think there's a benefit to not outing the theme Day 1, but hear me out. Outing it Day 2 doesn't really gain us any benefit. Sure, you might be putting mafia through one Day of an uncoordinated kill, and toDay lack of communication may throw their plan in whack for awhile. However, the uncoordinated kill probably won't be that much of a big deal, and I doubt that the latter of those two things will seriously happen. In the same respect that we'll be able to find out the true identities of the killed people pretty quickly after the theme is revealed, so to would the mafia be able to catch up pretty quickly with anything they may have missed.

---

Btw guys, I'll just like to remind you all that the mafia learning of their buddies from layer 1 is just an assumption. Don't treat it as a fact.

 

[Chuckie]

Those blind to their alignments with a guess left shouldn't wait until the end of the Day to make one - you should all guess now. It's wasteful otherwise! Getting everyone up to speed with their alignments is of upmost importance as that is the most defining factor that will influence your language in this game (as with any mafia game).

Soup's response to Le Bateluer was pretty much what I was going to say.

Did you mean to say Le Bateluer here out of curiosity?

Our last q is a bit late now as the game's picking up but if you could answer it still that'd be great. Just go through the player list and comment on your expectations from each player... I'll leave this open-ended. As for the q itself it was mainly a discussion starter as I thought you looked a little awkward coming into the game and wanted to poke around a bit.

What are the pros/cons of discussing the theme on day 1?

Flips! Flips flips flips everywhere!!!! The sooner the better... we work more efficiently with actual information to make the most cost-effective use of our time. Look at us and our PR talk. But otherwise we'll be playing with an eternal janitor through the mechanics of the game alongside a mafia faction that may be ahead in the game information-wise as indicated in the rules, which all sounds pretty DARNJÉRUS!

The con is negated once you figure out that people can just find out their alignment from going through layer one. A con of not outing the theme is wasting the day on theme/guessing discussion, which makes it harder to find scum. Rather it's a distraction, such as you being voted to out the theme. If we just out the theme now we can have time to discuss wagons/lynching, and then can have time to think about who to target/how to do so regarding our own roles. Remember that Mafia already have information, while Town doesn't. Going one day without some role information can hurt us.

Since when did you get all executive? =?
_

Now:

@Overswarmy: what do you think of Le Batuleur just on a first impression basis?

@Raziek... who are the players here you are most familiar with? How good are you at reading them? How are you viewing Soup based on your earlier clue exchange with him?

I haven't read this game as in depth as I'd like to soooo....

 

[ranmaru]

What do you mean executive?

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm sick and unhappy, consider me V/LA until tomorrow. Sorry guys.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright. I won't pursue this as long as you back your claims later in the day.



Not a fan of Policy lynching nor the logic behind them. I won't lynch someone based on pretenses. Why the suggestion?

Not everyone even knows their alignment yet, so D1 is a really huge shot in the dark as far as lynches go. Using it to cut off a slot we don't want in LyLo to increase our chances of winning can be worthwhile.