Tier List Speculation

[foxygrandpa]

neither of these are true and i'd appreciate it if you stop spreading misinformation after already being corrected on this.

I was never corrected on this?
If i was, sorry for spreading false info
But seriously, she's still lacking some stuff in order to be compete with some of these new characters imo

 

[Strong Badam]

i've definitely corrected someone specifically on those two things before.

 

[Ripple]

None of these are true. The only "nerf" Peach has received is Dsmash doing less damage to compensate for the fact that multi-hit moves don't stale instantly as they do in Melee.

it was indeed foxy grandpa who said it

 

[Rubix1387]

Annnnnd, now i respect you even more as a pro Smasher.
Thank you for the opinion and insight.

 

[Denti]

Basically I fail to see reasons besides "yo Denti is sexy" and "omfg bair 2 stronk plz nerf, Riot" as to why people place her so high. Mind enlightening me ?

I'm just wayyyyyyyyyy too sexy to the point where anything I play is top tier.
*hair flip*

 

[Strong Badam]

it was indeed foxy grandpa who said it

alley oop

aaaand
DUNK

 

[9bit]

alley oop

aaaand
DUNK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q4zjIzj0nHM&t=126

 

[Bakasama]

you say that Link's grab has a bad design but yet you would revert spacies back to melee?

like what?

shine being invinicible was a dumb design, laser's also not diminishing in damage over distance was bad design.

how could you possibly think that fox would be fine DESIGN wise with these in the game?

I know this would've already been said in the like 10 some-odd pages after this but; Fox exists as a character who was designed with the intention of outputting long combos, and also getting trapped in long combos, due to his weight and gravity. With the rise of the effectiveness of floaty characters, his combo game dimishes, and yet he still retains that same weakness of easily being combo'd. Mewtwo for example, demolishes Fox and walls him out even when he's not just steamrolling Fox. This is an issue that Fox can't really overcome too easily, and allowing Fox players to have their invuln shine again wouldn't be a massive advantage anymore, because the weight of Fox's opponents now is very, very varied. No longer can Fox just string together something massive, dump the opponent off the ledge, and then shine them during their recovery. Many characters have multiple jumps, long double jumps, unpredictable recoveries, very long-range triple jumps, or simply don't combo easily, so giving Fox a +1 on a trade, due to /perfect timing/ isn't unreasonable.

 

[TreK]

I'm just wayyyyyyyyyy too sexy to the point where anything I play is top tier.
*hair flip*

Hair flip is OP.

 

[Guilu]

Fox still has an excellent upsmash and upair, a high falling speed, good recovery and let's not forget the shine. Floaties may be harder to combo but that comes at the expense of being easier to knock out via star KOs, and Fox is an expert in those. This allows him to bypass the improved recoveries and glues him to the top of the tier list until people figure out how to edgeguard properly in this game. Also fastfallers are definitely not alone in getting comboed; in fact they're harder to combo in a number of cases. If you take Marth for instance, do you think his chaingrab is more efficient and/or easier than a string of fairs possibly ending in a dolphin slash or spike ? Falcon is another character who prefers floaties when it comes to combos.
In short, even with the generally improved recoveries and the more diverse metagame, Fox is still a strong contender for the foreseeable future.

 

[didds]

where does the impression that Fox has a good combo game come from? Isn't his combo game pretty subpar relative to the rest of the cast?

 

[RazeriaN]

Ice climbers being the worse character in P:M just kills my heart, as someone who has played them a lot is just sad and it seems like time wasted

 

[Chesstiger2612]

They have lots of potential and I would say they are one of the 5 least explored characters. It is just that they have a higher learning curve in some aspect because after getting hit and getting out of a combo you can't just be in neutral normally but need to setup your defense again (resyncing them and react to immediate threats). It makes it a bit harder for not IC veterans, whereas the Melee IC veterans often have problems implementing newer techniques.

 

[Bleck]

The Ice Climbers are kind of terribly designed characters (not specifically in Project M, just, in general) and I'm okay with them not being good.

 

[Juushichi]

why does it matter what x arbitrary player is saying about y character? if you put a lot of time into them and enjoy playing them, do so.

most of the people in this thread and that play pm don't even know what PM ice climbers do.

nah, nm. stop wasting your time and just play link or spacies, i mean lucas/m2/3month high tiers

 

[Terotrous]

Honestly I think the main thing ICs have lost is damage. In Melee / Brawl, when they get you (especially if it's a grab), you're taking a huge chunk of damage. Now that they've lost their fobble and everyone else has huge combos, they don't hit particularly hard anymore, and their other issues (limited range, weakened state when one is KOed, etc) now hold them back.

If you buffed their damage output a little bit across the board I think they'd go back to being viable.

And before people complain that this is purely theory fighter, ICs were one of my training partner's best characters in Brawl, along with Olimar and GW. His Olimar is somehow still pretty good in PM, ICs and GW not so much. I don't think I've lost to either of those two yet.

 

[Iceman]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Ice Climbers. They still do great damage, and are still a huge threat when they get a grab. You all just don't have enough experience with PM Ice Climbers.

 

[RazeriaN]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Ice Climbers. They still do great damage, and are still a huge threat when they get a grab. You all just don't have enough experience with PM Ice Climbers.

in what do you think that every IC main should focus on?

 

[NickLeo]

You want fun?

Aaaaaaaaight. You asked for it.

View attachment 11255

Even Random.org agrees that Fox is the best character in the game.

However Wolf is 2nd best not Falco. Falco is 4th place tho, so still good.

Spacies too stronk. Random.org says so. Nerf plz.

Highly inaccurate, Random is clearly #16, being #17 is ridiculous

 

[ThreeSided]

I'm really confused here. Everyone is talking about how good fox is, but then I also am hearing people saying that Fox hasn't been placing well in PM tournaments. Which is it?!

 

[NickLeo]

I'm really confused here. Everyone is talking about how good fox is, but then I also am hearing people saying that Fox hasn't been placing well in PM tournaments. Which is it?!

Popular opinion says Fox is #1
Tournament results say Fox is #1
He is #1
Please resist any Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen jokes

 

[DMG]

My Smash Boner says Fox is #1. It has spoken

 

[Terotrous]

I'm really confused here. Everyone is talking about how good fox is, but then I also am hearing people saying that Fox hasn't been placing well in PM tournaments. Which is it?!

Fox is not as new and exciting as some other characters so he's not quite as common as some of the really good newcomers, but when he does appear he generally tends to do well.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Ice Climbers. They still do great damage, and are still a huge threat when they get a grab. You all just don't have enough experience with PM Ice Climbers.

It's clearly not nearly as pronounced as it was in Brawl. They don't 0 to death you off every grab while all other non-chain grabbers get 20% tops. Not that that was ever good design, but they were one of the most heavily nerfed characters in the transition to PM, and I feel like they probably got hit a little too hard. If you're going to take away something that was that big for them, you kind of have to give something back.

 

[mimgrim]

I'm really confused here. Everyone is talking about how good fox is, but then I also am hearing people saying that Fox hasn't been placing well in PM tournaments. Which is it?!

Random.org says Fox is best character in the game. The randomness has spoken. It is the only truth.

My Smash Boner says Fox is #1. It has spoken

^This is also legit, albeit less so. Randomness has a bit more validity to it.

 

[BluntedMask]

If people only spent all their time playing instead of posting.

 

[Terotrous]

If people only spent all their time playing instead of posting.

I do my posting at work. I'll stop posting here if you'll pay me a salary to stay home and play this game.


Besides, Project M is a very community-driven project. Active discussion is good for the scene.

 

[Empyrean]

I thought we were supposed to get better against Fox and Boomerang by complaining about them here.

 

[The_NZA]

this thread sucks.

 

[Oracle]

I'm just wayyyyyyyyyy too sexy to the point where anything I play is top tier.
*hair flip*

Wow posting a picture of yourself on smashboards? What a ****

Wow I cant say ****, you harlot

<3

 

[GP&B]

I couldn't even be mad playing against someone that cute.

No homo.

 

[Vashimus]

Same.

Full homo.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Proof link is broken
Edit: wow can only upload one image that's ****ing stupid

 

[DrinkingFood]

Double posts for additional images

 

[trash?]

clearly, link should be changed because he has incredibly badly-designed hitboxes arbitrarily left in. guess that should apply to other hitboxes too, I suppose, since that's the route we're taking

Spoiler

 

[DrinkingFood]

Geez can't take a joke can you
Even so It's not even a remotely similar comparison- Link in those pictures is hitting a full sword length away from his sword.
I'm pretty sure it's a glitch. It kept occurring with Link, only on his jab1, until we went to homerun contest and came back to Versus.

 

[Empyrean]

Geez can't take a joke can you
Even so It's not even a remotely similar comparison- Link in those pictures is hitting a full sword length away from his sword.
I'm pretty sure it's a glitch. It kept occurring with Link, only on his jab1, until we went to homerun contest and came back to Versus.

First ZSS, now this? Stop breaking the game man, it's not cool.

 

[KayB]

The biggest nerf the Ice Climbers got were their sfx. In Melee when you would land a hit it'd give an insanely satisfying smacking noise, giving you an adrenaline rush every time your hammer makes contact. In Brawl, IC's sfx are absolutely terrible. Every time you hit somebody it's like your slapping them with cotton balls. Adrenaline gone.

 

[MonkUnit]

@ DrinkingFood , is that the first time you've encountered that glitch? I've never seen that before.

 

[JOE!]

clearly, link should be changed because he has incredibly badly-designed hitboxes arbitrarily left in. guess that should apply to other hitboxes too, I suppose, since that's the route we're taking

Spoiler

You stole my thing >:C

 

[woundedust]

I feel like falco needs something done to his recovery. Either decrease charge time on up-b since it has no hit box and is shorter, or make it longer. One or the other