Tier List Speculation

[TwicH]

I won't be taking anything posted on here seriously today due to it being April 1st. See you guys tomorrow.

--> http://clashtournaments.com/project-m-3-02-tier-list-v1-01/ <---

 

[Bleck]

How does one determine how much an opinion is worth?

Rationally.

 

[Goku1233]

You guys are rare outliers.

When I see random person do amazing with <insert absurd character>, then never able to repeat the performance with another character, or another game

I have logical reason to believe that character really carried them.

or gimmicks

or a combination of the two somehow.

sorry but that's just what makes sense to me

Also I think snake can be played FAR more advanced than rolex or professor pro play them

With that said, Snake is good, and Rolex is good

But I still believe I mastered fox/mewtwo and armada mastered pit

more than you/rolex mastered your characters

and I'm like 99% sure of this. I can tell just by some decision making and how far you guys take your hits. (Example is armada gets kills off his hits a LOT)

Oh the irony of your posts. Maybe the random guy never had a chance to go out and compete? Have most of us not gotten good by just playing 100s of hours at home for more then a year? I know I have, after this dude name HDL came to our tourney in 2006 and destroyed all of us(that's when I didn't know about lcancel etc).

My point is this, just because you're not popular/known by the community and you do well with Link, doesn't mean you got carried because I can easily say this Jason....you got carried by Fox in most your success. But that wouldn't be fair to you because you have trained 100s of hours have you not? So why can't a random do the same? If you're gonna discredit Link players for doing good in PM, then discredit Falco, Fox players too...cause im sure you wont do too well if you just played Ganondorf.

You may be the best player in the world, but your way of thinking at times has me puzzled.

 

[didds]

First post, calls out mew2king

Is there a meme for this?

 

[WT!]

Ivy=SS

Because of range, good juggling and comboing ability, healing, great ability to rack up damage, great egdegaurding, near impossible recovery to edgegaurd, Killing abilty, Nice projectile, OoS options, sheild pressure... basically her only weakness is poor speed.

 

[Cristen]

What's good, y'all?

I got a question for Mew2King and you all: where would you all consider Zelda (not Sheik) to be on a theoretical tier list, and why? For years, it seems like to me that Zelda has been overshadowed by Sheik, but i've always liked playing Zelda.

 

[steelguttey]

ok guys here goes my tier list here we go

**** tier: fox, falco (****ing animals no swords who cares)

god tier: olimar (he ****ing throws hitboxes and they have added effects n shti how sweet is that

 

[Bleck]

My tier list is a picture of a butt, pooping, forever.

 

[Crezyte]

What's good, y'all?

I got a question for Mew2King and you all: where would you all consider Zelda (not Sheik) to be on a theoretical tier list, and why? For years, it seems like to me that Zelda has been overshadowed by Sheik, but i've always liked playing Zelda.

I think Zelda is pretty good in PM. Its hard to say if she is better than sheik because he doesn't have as easy a combo game as sheik but her recovery and defensive game is many times better. IMHO Zelda is actually better than Sheik in PM based on what I've seen Zhime do.

 

[Phaiyte]

m2k ive been saying this for years but youre not actually good and neither are the melee players(ppl like mango and dehf are also pretty bad at the game) you just abuse crap like fox

If he's /so bad/ why don't you 4 stock him. I'd love to see that ****.

 

[DMG]

That meme would be about as good as your Sig, didds

 

[didds]

disappointing

 

[CardiganBoy]

My tier list is a picture of a butt, pooping, forever.

Mine is one of mario pooping a butt, and then the butt poops.

 

[DontHate-]

I really don't have any evidence to back this claim up, I just assumed as such because it seems like everyone is arguing whether these characters are top tier or not. It seemed reasonable that it wouldn't be discussed like this unless they were topping. My mistake!

My point still remains I think though. I am pretty sure based on what I've been hearing that there are still many melee tops topping in PM (don't tell me I'm still making the same mistake. Will I ever learn?).

Yeah, I know what you mean. Most people here are just going by intuition/ personal experience. If we went by tournament results alone, which we shouldn't except in extreme cases, fox/falco would easily be mid tier for PM (probably not even that because the tournament results vary so much that there isn't one distinct clear character(s) that is toping all the tournaments. Unlike melee where all you see in top 5 are fox/falco/marth/sheik). So pretty much most of this all theory crafting and based on experience. The quote:

"Universal truth is not measured by mass appeal"

applies tenfolds to this thread. No one knows for certain the exact placement of characters- only an estimate of where they probably are (and even that, as accurate as some people make it seem, needs to be taken with a massive grain of salt).

 

[Vashimus]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Most people here are just going by intuition/ personal experience. If we went by tournament results alone, which we shouldn't except in extreme cases, fox/falco would easily be mid tier for PM (probably not even that because the tournament results vary so much that there isn't one distinct clear character(s) that is toping all the tournaments. Unlike melee where all you see in top 5 are fox/falco/marth/sheik). So pretty much most of this all theory crafting and based on experience. The quote:

"Universal truth is not measured by mass appeal"

applies tenfolds to this thread. No one knows for certain the exact placement of characters- only an estimate of where they probably are (and even that, as accurate as some people make it seem, needs to be taken with a massive grain of salt).

Tier lists are about match ups and the effectiveness of the character's overall toolset, not just about tournament results.

At this point, it's easier to just humor you and say Fox and Falco are dead-bottom.

 

[Paradoxium]

Tier lists are about match ups and the effectiveness of the character's overall toolset, not just about tournament results.

At this point, it's easier to just humor you and say Fox and Falco are dead-bottom.

tournament results are a more reliable way to make tier list than a bunch of smashboards theory crafters

 

[DontHate-]

Tier lists are about match ups and the effectiveness of the character's overall toolset, not just about tournament results.

At this point, it's easier to just humor you and say Fox and Falco are dead-bottom.

Did you not read what you quoted? I said "if we went by tournament results alone, WHICH WE SHOULDN'T..."

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Where do you people think Lucas falls in all of this? My friends have banned me from using him in friendlies because "he's too OP". I think he's about average, maybe mid-high tier.

 

[Vashimus]

Did you not read what you quoted? I said "if we went by tournament results alone, WHICH WE SHOULDN'T..."

Just making sure.

tournament results are a more reliable way to make tier list than a bunch of smashboards theory crafters

Like your arguments convincing people Pikachu is at least high tier, 90% of which are theory-craft? The hell outta here trying to save face Paradox, you're on these boards and you theory-craft just as much as everyone else lmao.

 

[Paradoxium]

Like your arguments convincing people Pikachu is at least high tier, 90% of which are theory-craft?

Not high tier, mid tier. or rather high mid tier. Actually i think Pikachu is solid mid tier, BAM! And tournament results are are real, i find them more reliable then the theory crafting of us scrubs, so even though i think Pikachu is mid tier it doesnt mean jack ****, you scoff at my opinion of Pikachu but what makes your claims any better

 

[Vashimus]

Not high tier, mid tier. or rather high mid tier. Actually i think Pikachu is solid mid tier, BAM! And tournament results are are real, i find them more reliable then the theory crafting of us scrubs, so even though i think Pikachu is mid tier it doesnt mean jack ****, you scoff at my opinion of Pikachu but what makes your claims any better

I never said my claims were better, and that's exactly the point! EVERYTHING HERE IS 100% SUBJECTIVE, whether it's theory-craft or anecdotal, and it's going to end up that way for a long long long time until 3.0 can finally settle and we can truly say we know everything there is (however long in the future that'll happen). What started as a thread for f*cking around and posting lists eventually boiled down into SRS BSNS that sucked the fun right out of it.

 

[Bryonato]

Where do you people think Lucas falls in all of this? My friends have banned me from using him in friendlies because "he's too OP". I think he's about average, maybe mid-high tier.

those are the worst kind of friends

 

[mimgrim]

What started as a thread for f*cking around and posting lists eventually boiled down into SRS BSNS that sucked the fun right out of it.

You want fun?

Aaaaaaaaight. You asked for it.

Even Random.org agrees that Fox is the best character in the game.

However Wolf is 2nd best not Falco. Falco is 4th place tho, so still good.

Spacies too stronk. Random.org says so. Nerf plz.

 

[Deleted member]

tbh that list isn't even that bad, ESPECIALLY for a randomizer

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The top 8 in the random list could actually be accurate o.O

 

[NeonApophis]

My updated tier list (not an April Fools Joke).

S Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Lucas
4. Meta Knight
5. Wolf
6. Ivysaur
7. Squirtle

A+ Tier
8. Snake
9. Peach
10. Sheik
11. Pit
12. Mario
13. Link
14. Marth
15. Mewtwo

A Tier
16. Toon Link
17. Diddy Kong
18. Pikachu
19. Roy
20. Lucario
21. Ike
22. Sonic
23. Captain Falcon
24. Zero Suit Samus
25. Olimar
26. Donkey Kong
27. Bowser
28. Yoshi
29. Game & Watch
30. Ness
31. Charizard
32. Zelda
33. Wario
34. Ice Climbers
35. Kirby

A- Tier
36. Samus
37. ROB
38. Luigi
39. Jigglypuff
40. Dedede
41. Ganondorf


I only post new versions of my tier list when I feel like it has improved substantially, and this is really a reflection of that. The most surprising thing might be Squirtle in S tier, but I'm pretty sure that he should be at least that high. I'm not sure that I'll be the one to develop his metagame since I'm occupied with doing that for Lucas at the moment, but I think it will become clear within the next year or so that Squirtle is extremely good in comparison to the rest of the cast. The placements of new characters are still a bit shaky given the lack of exposure and development, so they might move around substantially in the future.

 

[JOE!]

I like how the random button is better than ganondorf

 

[Bryonato]

tbh that list isn't even that bad, ESPECIALLY for a randomizer

still better than ct tier list.

 

[Deleted member]

FOR ONCE, TOONLINK ISN'T LAST
Toonlink needs buffs

 

[mimgrim]

I like how the random button is better than ganondorf

Random is totally legit yo. I have a friend of a friend of a friend of a brother of a cousin of a sister of a father of a friend that mains random. Hasn't lost once. Tbh Random should be top tier. You just can't beat good ol' random.

 

[DrinkingFood]

View attachment 11255

even the randomizer thinks ROB sucks
JCz plz

 

[Chexr]

Toonlink is godlike, you just don't know yet.

 

[Deleted member]

even the randomizer thinks ROB sucks
JCz plz

Welcome to my world, where I beat top players in TX
and toonlink is still trash

 

[HaZarD2kv]

Dude, seriously, Toon Link shouldn't be last. He is really viable and has good matchups. Luigi is down there too. Whats the deal with that? Down B is too good and fireballs come out faster and his WD is awesome.

 

[Strong Badam]

Welcome to my world, where I beat top players in TX
and toonlink is still trash

and the points don't matter

 

[foxygrandpa]

I dont know about the starfox placing, to be honest, I only used fox against jiggs and ICs in melee and play him once in a while in PM, but it seems like the other melee character are getting left behind. They need to be buffed for real.
I honestly think a lot of them are overrated because players more experienced with their characters tend to pick them up.
ICs are pretty bad from what ive seen, and jiggs is pretty much atrocious in this due to everyone having decent ranges or projectiles.
Some of peach's stuff like her landing lag on up b and her horizantal movement were nerfed since melee, kind of makes her worse, even though she got minor tweaks.
Sheik lost her free combo grab against everyone in the game which is understandable, but she should have recieved a little more to compensate.
Marth sucks on these stages, literally makes him obsolete against fox most of the time.
Spacy recoveries are smaller, plus the slightly deserved nerfs. Theyre fine though, but their recoveries are really awkward and not smooth compared to melees.

 

[9bit]

Well, somebody has to be "bottom" tier. Even if that doesn't mean "bad" in this game.

 

[didds]

Buff Wartortle
Half the time it feels like I'm playing squirtle
PMBR never listens

 

[Strong Badam]

Some of peach's stuff like her landing lag on up b and her horizantal movement were nerfed since melee, kind of makes her worse, even though she got minor tweaks.

neither of these are true and i'd appreciate it if you stop spreading misinformation after already being corrected on this.

 

[mimgrim]

The only nerf Peach got was Dsmash. And that more due to how Stale Moves work in PM isn't it?

Either way. Peach Dsmash doesn't feel right to me. :L