You might have just opened a can of worms
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
Y-L
Smash Champion
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I actually might be okay with some minor Falco buffs as I don't think he's nearly as dominant as Fox, but the #1 buff I want is revert Fair to Brawl. Ideally FSmash too.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Yeah. I've seen some other weird things too, but they always seem to be one time occurrences (as in, one play time, although it might be multiple games that we play, testing the glitch on multiple stages) that go away if we load up a single player mode like homerun contest, and usually stuff nobody has seen before. And then they never happen again. Over in the bug reporting forum I posted one about ZSS's down-b.@DrinkingFood , is that the first time you've encountered that glitch? I've never seen that before.
Attached is the frame of two glitched Link Jab1's colliding... the hitbox is so huge, the left link hasn't even fully swung his sword but the early hitbox collides with the fully outswung hitbox of the right Link anyways.
Attachments
Empyrean
Smash Champion
The key word here is ideally. In reality, that ain't happening.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
Yes, let's switch Falco's Fair to Brawl. That will buff it from "situational" to "situational" but in different situations.
mimgrim
Smash Hero
As far as I can see, Brawl Fair can still be used in most of the same situations as Melee Fair, but you can also use it offstage. And I believe one of the differences between Fox and Falco is supposed to be that Falco's offstage game is better.
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Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
DJ Nintendo talked about some interested uses for Fair in his interview after winning NSA 2. It was for Fox, but using flutterhush to get follow-ups at higher percents since it has barely any KB is situationally useful.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
So ... what you actually want is earlier IASA frames.
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Making it so he only kicks 2 or 3 times might be an acceptable substitute (is there ANY situation where all of the kicks will ever hit?), but I feel like the PM team is even less likely to go that route than to just revert the animation.
I'm slightly less convinced about Falco, he seems pretty one dimensional in this game and could maybe use a few more moves that are decent. Fox obviously doesn't need the help, but even then the dumb design of that move kind of bugs me. It could be a consolation buff after we reduce USmash's kill power.
What I like about Fox and Falco's forward air is that, in Melee, it was sorta scoffed at for a while. People thought it was useless. Then the really good players found awesome uses for it.
That's what I want from PM. Moves that don't seem useful at first, second, maybe even third glance. But once you master the character, you find really good uses for them. Falco's f-air and u-air are great examples of this.
That's what I want from PM. Moves that don't seem useful at first, second, maybe even third glance. But once you master the character, you find really good uses for them. Falco's f-air and u-air are great examples of this.
I think it's pretty much impossible to intentionally create something like that, because it usually stems from the move having utility that you didn't originally intend. It's pretty clear that almost all of competitive Melee was a happy accident.
Also, for every move that has some kind of secret use, there's a move that remains completely useless. Warlock Punch anyone?
MagnesD3
Smash Master
They have to help ganon out somehow if they truly want balance.
1.0 falco had brawl fair and it was glorious.
On "Ways to Improve Ganon"
I really like an idea proposed earlier about being able to "store" a neutral B at its current charge by shielding -- like Sheik's needles or something. Other than that, it's kinda tough. I know in Melee Ganondorf is all about wavelanding around platforms to get in, and a hard punish game. The overall character design has some trouble in the PM environment for sure.
Maybe his n-air could be improved. I really like his n-air in the Ganondorf Sword Mod. It's basically an Ike n-air, complete with disjointed sword hitbox. Though I don't like giving him a sword in general.
I really like an idea proposed earlier about being able to "store" a neutral B at its current charge by shielding -- like Sheik's needles or something. Other than that, it's kinda tough. I know in Melee Ganondorf is all about wavelanding around platforms to get in, and a hard punish game. The overall character design has some trouble in the PM environment for sure.
Maybe his n-air could be improved. I really like his n-air in the Ganondorf Sword Mod. It's basically an Ike n-air, complete with disjointed sword hitbox. Though I don't like giving him a sword in general.
SixSaw
Smash Journeyman
Give Ganon armor on dash attack. Done.
MagnesD3
Smash Master
Also I really like the idea of giving falco his brawl fair and fsmash but it probably wont happen since brawl players dont matter ;(
What was that thing? Forever ago... the Samus windmill. Invincibility on something on her dash attack? lol
Ganon's dash attack is so fast, armor on that would be crazy! It just might work...
Leave Falco as he is. Brawl players kinda don't matter Kappa
Ganon's dash attack is so fast, armor on that would be crazy! It just might work...
Leave Falco as he is. Brawl players kinda don't matter Kappa
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JOE!
Smash Hero
my idea was that you could do the animation, cancel it, then resume the animation when you pressed B again
Yeah exactly! I like that. Sorta like Samus' charge beam right. You could charge it up in your free time, or when the opponent loses a stock, and then have a near-instant one to drop in the middle of a combo or something.
Maybe even this includes the idea to be able to unleash it early, like Samus' charge beam, by double-tapping B. Less damage/knockback, but you know, you get to use it.
woops i keep forgetting to
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Guilu
Smash Apprentice
You mean like Donkey Kong, not Samus.
MagnesD3
Smash Master
D3 came from brawl, thats cold..What was that thing? Forever ago... the Samus windmill. Invincibility on something on her dash attack? lol
Ganon's dash attack is so fast, armor on that would be crazy! It just might work...
Leave Falco as he is. Brawl players kinda don't matter Kappa
yeah but like he was supposed to be in all the other games. if i remember, he was supposed to be in N64 but they couldn't. maybe. but i know for sure he was supposed to be in melee, but they couldn't
besides, i said "brawl players don't matter" not brawl characters <3
I still like my idea for Ganon, which is that Air Warlock Foot travels horizontally, exactly like the grounded version. It can only be used once per airtime, doesn't restore your midair jump, and he can act afterwards. Ideally slightly reduced knockback so if you hit with the first part you can probably get a Fair at the end.
Also, while we're reverting moves to Brawl, revert Ganon USmash to Brawl. The upkick was glorious.
Also, while we're reverting moves to Brawl, revert Ganon USmash to Brawl. The upkick was glorious.
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I mean, can you use another (traditional -- 45 degree angle) down-B after this horizontal aerial down-B, and regain your jump that way? That sounds like a hella good recovery + insane onstage mixup game.
Don't get me wrong, Ganon needs some help, but damn that sounds maybe 2legit
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JOE!
Smash Hero
Revert Charizard's Bair to brawl, why did he lose the wing hitbox? :C
(also, Zard is a 64 vet, he's always been a pokeball :D)
(also, Zard is a 64 vet, he's always been a pokeball :D)
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
canceling ganon's punch at any time is a silly janky idea that belongs in brawl minus not PM jus' sayin'
I can't really see how you could have both, unless doing a second time makes it go downwards but that seems gimmicky. It's still a huge recovery boost as it is, since he can do Warlock's Foot to gain a ton of horizontal distance and then UpB afterwards, as long as he hasn't already used it.
I do think it'd be very powerful, besides helping you approach I suspect it would have some fairly crazy combo applications. This one change alone is probably enough to make Ganon really good.
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BluntedMask
Smash Apprentice
Yo just master that wizard's foot now that they gave it the ability to be wave bounced/b reversal and edge canceled.
You can get some dumb stuff from that.
You can get some dumb stuff from that.
jtm94
Smash Lord
Ganon's DownB is a form of transportation almost.
Also, Falco's recovery is definitely abnormally bad, especially in this game. One thing that I see people comment on about space animals recoveries is that they move NOWHERE after the UpB ends, so if Falco is miles above the stage and SideB's back and needs to move a millimeter to the right, he just stays completely still. Is there any way we can at least let Falco shift his movement or maintain some from the UpB?
Also, Falco's recovery is definitely abnormally bad, especially in this game. One thing that I see people comment on about space animals recoveries is that they move NOWHERE after the UpB ends, so if Falco is miles above the stage and SideB's back and needs to move a millimeter to the right, he just stays completely still. Is there any way we can at least let Falco shift his movement or maintain some from the UpB?
B.W.
Smash Champion
Are we really talking about buffing Falco?
The character who most people agree to still be number 2 in the game?
The character who most people agree to still be number 2 in the game?
D
Deleted member
Guest
we should make shine invincible
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Give it the brawl implementation of Fox's reflector
Invincible on reflection. Only jump cancel-able on reflection as well.
Kati
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 1,471
upkick was disgusting. please no no no no no. Brawl dair is bad enough.