Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
explanation?
FD is IC's seccond best stage or probably best tied with smashville.
-
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- Thread starter abit_rusty
- Start date
FD is IC's seccond best stage or probably best tied with smashville.
Master Raven
Smash Master
That wasn't Melee1 that Afro fought in the vid.
It's so funny though lol
It's so funny though lol
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
OP updated. I just posted a link to the beginning of the Diddy discussion because I do not have time to write a full summary of it. If someone feels up to writing the match up summary I'll update the OP with it and give you credit for the write up.
Someone suggested Toon Link, so now we are officially discussing Toon Link. Go.
Someone suggested Toon Link, so now we are officially discussing Toon Link. Go.
TLMarth
Smash Ace
What would you like to know?
Like our whole game, all of our options, etc?
For example, we can shoot an arrow without lag after every short hop action except dair, uair, boomerang, airdodge.
EDIT: wow. 500th post.
Like our whole game, all of our options, etc?
For example, we can shoot an arrow without lag after every short hop action except dair, uair, boomerang, airdodge.
EDIT: wow. 500th post.
Panix
Smash Ace
Alright I'll start the discussion on toon link.
Toon link, He has a large ray of ranged attacks. his bow cancels to the ground. his bomb sets up nice little combo's also good for edge guarding. His boomerang is probably his best projectial, being that it can be angled, and usually leads to comboing.
Toon links air game is amazing!! His bair spam can rack up dmg quickly and surprisingly, his Zair is a nice little surprise in his air game it gives him shield pressure and spacing ability also allows for follow up hits like his fair., his fair KO's, His Dair is what really bothers me, it has shield poking abilitys and he bounces when he hits your shield, and even after that he can get out and use anthor areial. his nair is quick, and is a multihit, and his Uair comes out quickly and KO's.
His F-Smash has mind games involved. he can either F-smash and the follow up quickly, or F-smash,stall, then follow up to bait a shield drop. His grabbing game isn't all that, if he misses with his G-hook then he is left there and can be punished accordingly. his Usmash is wat you really have to watch out for, it comes out quick which is probably the reason for most of his ground KO's. and his Dsmash can launch you at a bad angle off the stage.
His tilts aren't where he shines, his ftilt is okay, not giving him much range, but giving a good bit of knock back. his utilt is actually quiet good, setting snake up in the air, where we really don't want to be. and I rarely see his dtilt used ( i might be mistaken i'll come back to that part of toon link
now...this being said we are snake
I don't know much about the priority of this fight, but I'm sure we have alot more of it. When he projectile spams, we can do it right back. when he goes into the air and starts to spam his Aerials, we can either space a u-tilt (we all know how much priority this move has) or just use a double jumped nair ( use this sparingly, we don't want to be in the air to much) when toon link trys to approach from the ground just space your f-tilt (if your snake you know you want to ;]) his roll isn't that hard to chase, which makes our dthrow chase game a little bit easier. stage control is essential, I highly doubt Mines will last against a good Tink, mainly because he can take them out easily with a Boomerang or bomb. but your c4 is still very very effective. Just like all match ups with snake...
Stay out of the air,
camp
space your tilts
control the stage
and you should be fine.
My rateing for this match up would have to be 60:40 in snakes favor.
Toon link, He has a large ray of ranged attacks. his bow cancels to the ground. his bomb sets up nice little combo's also good for edge guarding. His boomerang is probably his best projectial, being that it can be angled, and usually leads to comboing.
Toon links air game is amazing!! His bair spam can rack up dmg quickly and surprisingly, his Zair is a nice little surprise in his air game it gives him shield pressure and spacing ability also allows for follow up hits like his fair., his fair KO's, His Dair is what really bothers me, it has shield poking abilitys and he bounces when he hits your shield, and even after that he can get out and use anthor areial. his nair is quick, and is a multihit, and his Uair comes out quickly and KO's.
His F-Smash has mind games involved. he can either F-smash and the follow up quickly, or F-smash,stall, then follow up to bait a shield drop. His grabbing game isn't all that, if he misses with his G-hook then he is left there and can be punished accordingly. his Usmash is wat you really have to watch out for, it comes out quick which is probably the reason for most of his ground KO's. and his Dsmash can launch you at a bad angle off the stage.
His tilts aren't where he shines, his ftilt is okay, not giving him much range, but giving a good bit of knock back. his utilt is actually quiet good, setting snake up in the air, where we really don't want to be. and I rarely see his dtilt used ( i might be mistaken i'll come back to that part of toon link
now...this being said we are snake
I don't know much about the priority of this fight, but I'm sure we have alot more of it. When he projectile spams, we can do it right back. when he goes into the air and starts to spam his Aerials, we can either space a u-tilt (we all know how much priority this move has) or just use a double jumped nair ( use this sparingly, we don't want to be in the air to much) when toon link trys to approach from the ground just space your f-tilt (if your snake you know you want to ;]) his roll isn't that hard to chase, which makes our dthrow chase game a little bit easier. stage control is essential, I highly doubt Mines will last against a good Tink, mainly because he can take them out easily with a Boomerang or bomb. but your c4 is still very very effective. Just like all match ups with snake...
Stay out of the air,
camp
space your tilts
control the stage
and you should be fine.
My rateing for this match up would have to be 60:40 in snakes favor.
BlueShield
Smash Cadet
I think that Snake has the upper hand on TL. ):
His F-Tilt has wicked range, knockback and priority and Snake users should definitely use it more often. His U-Tilt is also one sick move. Snake out prioritizes, out ranges and out powers TL but a good TL can work out strats against him. First of all, stopping a Snake approach is hard work. His dash move is a great move to use but is predictable.
Snake is all about knockback but also subject to TL's mindgames more than other characters. Snake only has 2 projectiles 3 if you count the USmash. The grenades are a predictable move and the Remote Control launcher whatever thingy can be a free hit if played right. A good strat against Snake would be to use projectiles. Though he may out out prioritize them Snake can't keep up with the spamming ability of all 3. Force him to approach and focus on out-of-shield attacks to punish his approach, take advantage of the lag forced on his moves and avoid his SICK tilts. If a TL could perfect this he could have the advantage but as said, Snake has TL outmatched in terms of power, range and priority. The best way to beat a good Snake is to read his predictabilty because he only has a handful of useful moves however strong it may be.
Get snake into the air. The air is your friend TL. Snake has TL our ranged but TL is faster. Bair combo and a quick dair near the ground. Start your combos with a hypen smash, he may shield it but mindgame Snake into it or just Utilt. DO NOT GRAB. If you miss he will FSmash you into the next century.
Snake is predictable but so is TL. He has more power and more range. Not good for TL. You can use projectiles but only some will hit. You can combo him but he'll get around it with tilts. Mindgames are key. Control the stage with bombs and keep to the air. Plus I'd like to point out his recovery aint that great. (Choose FD) He'll get stuck under the stage and fall to his doom...
Edit: Dont even THINK about using the second strike of the FSmash.
You may want to go for the Dair Spike. Snake's recovery is perfect for it. It has to start completly vertical and only after a little while can it move horizontal so you could use that opportunity to hit him.
Not the best match up... 62:38 Snake wins
His F-Tilt has wicked range, knockback and priority and Snake users should definitely use it more often. His U-Tilt is also one sick move. Snake out prioritizes, out ranges and out powers TL but a good TL can work out strats against him. First of all, stopping a Snake approach is hard work. His dash move is a great move to use but is predictable.
Snake is all about knockback but also subject to TL's mindgames more than other characters. Snake only has 2 projectiles 3 if you count the USmash. The grenades are a predictable move and the Remote Control launcher whatever thingy can be a free hit if played right. A good strat against Snake would be to use projectiles. Though he may out out prioritize them Snake can't keep up with the spamming ability of all 3. Force him to approach and focus on out-of-shield attacks to punish his approach, take advantage of the lag forced on his moves and avoid his SICK tilts. If a TL could perfect this he could have the advantage but as said, Snake has TL outmatched in terms of power, range and priority. The best way to beat a good Snake is to read his predictabilty because he only has a handful of useful moves however strong it may be.
Get snake into the air. The air is your friend TL. Snake has TL our ranged but TL is faster. Bair combo and a quick dair near the ground. Start your combos with a hypen smash, he may shield it but mindgame Snake into it or just Utilt. DO NOT GRAB. If you miss he will FSmash you into the next century.
Snake is predictable but so is TL. He has more power and more range. Not good for TL. You can use projectiles but only some will hit. You can combo him but he'll get around it with tilts. Mindgames are key. Control the stage with bombs and keep to the air. Plus I'd like to point out his recovery aint that great. (Choose FD) He'll get stuck under the stage and fall to his doom...
Edit: Dont even THINK about using the second strike of the FSmash.
You may want to go for the Dair Spike. Snake's recovery is perfect for it. It has to start completly vertical and only after a little while can it move horizontal so you could use that opportunity to hit him.
Not the best match up... 62:38 Snake wins
Actually Smashville isn't too good for them in a lot of matchups; moving platform helps people camp them immensely.
Snake vs TL is 60:40.
And Hot Arms is right, YI is a great Snake stage vs IC's.
Yeah smashville isn't that great for climbers. Moving platform is a *****.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197584
then probably somebody should update the stage discussion topic.
We were talking about FD anyway =)
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
Dair spike is rarely used even with snake he could air dodge then use his c4 or watever he uses to blow himself up and get his up b back while toon who has just missed has died
we have a lot of tricks to keep you guessing zair leads into a grab our spam can beat yours SHDA (short hop double arrow) with an angled rang stops missiles and granades, missile drops watever you call em when we are recovering wont work our upb will just keep hitting it and then we go past and grab ledge, because we have our own throwable bombs we know how to use yours to so dont be suprised if you get your own bomb in ya face and dont rlly worry about the dsmash gimp 9/10 we wont try that but if were on yoshi's island then it can be nasty as in instant kill on some characters and if you di it wrong then your dead simple as, we have ways against utilts which get you in the air for combos ibomb is one of em.
and the match up has been called 45:55 : 50:50 even on our boards and this was made by both tlinks and snakes
hope i helped
we have a lot of tricks to keep you guessing zair leads into a grab our spam can beat yours SHDA (short hop double arrow) with an angled rang stops missiles and granades, missile drops watever you call em when we are recovering wont work our upb will just keep hitting it and then we go past and grab ledge, because we have our own throwable bombs we know how to use yours to so dont be suprised if you get your own bomb in ya face and dont rlly worry about the dsmash gimp 9/10 we wont try that but if were on yoshi's island then it can be nasty as in instant kill on some characters and if you di it wrong then your dead simple as, we have ways against utilts which get you in the air for combos ibomb is one of em.
and the match up has been called 45:55 : 50:50 even on our boards and this was made by both tlinks and snakes
hope i helped
iRjOn
Smash Lord
Snake vs Toon Link its Near even probally 45:55 Snake
Toon Link can nagg Snake with projectiles while throwing his crap back. But a good Snake can just strip us.
Upsmash freshly kills Snake at about 120ish%
Snakes recovery is gonna be nagged like always.
If your like 100%+ expect a fair to the face while cyphering.
fsmash will be use more but still rarely.
Upair this is where most of our low% kills like 90% or so will come from. Toon Link can easily get Snake in the air.
But Snake can easily kill us so meh.
I'll leave yall to think on this for alittle. And I'll write up the rest later.
Toon Link can nagg Snake with projectiles while throwing his crap back. But a good Snake can just strip us.
Upsmash freshly kills Snake at about 120ish%
Snakes recovery is gonna be nagged like always.
If your like 100%+ expect a fair to the face while cyphering.
fsmash will be use more but still rarely.
Upair this is where most of our low% kills like 90% or so will come from. Toon Link can easily get Snake in the air.
But Snake can easily kill us so meh.
I'll leave yall to think on this for alittle. And I'll write up the rest later.
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
he's right nuf said
Chip.
you know what to do
Toon Link doesn't really have that many advantageous matchups only 2 from my experiences and Snake happens to be one of them (the other being Gaw and possibly DDD).
I'd say 60-40 TL's favor. I've played all sorts of good Snakes over the West coast like DSF, Kamaji, OMGage, etc.
Err, anyway, my best advice to Snake is to not grenade camp vs toon Link. Stupidest idea to do since TL's spam is much more superior to Snake's. With Snake just run and powersheild all of TL's projectiles and Sheild Cancel into Ftilts all day like a wild panther! Do that and grab -> Dthrow and tech chasesies and that's pretty much the only way you can play this matchup.
Toon Link can basically SHDA to cancel Snake's Boost Smashes and throw a boomerang up in case Snake wants to jump over the arrows. TL can Bair space Snake's sheild and sheild before Snake can Sheild cancel into a ftilt, jab, or uptilt. He can't sheild grab TL if he spaces his Bair properly but he messes up then he can. TL can do near 0-50% combos if he lands a bair too. TL can sheild grab Snake's Ftilt and has some pretty ferocious edgeguarding as well. He controls the field so he has more options to choose from and react faster than Snake can in this matchup.
There's more I'm probably forgetting but that's a good sumarry of most of what I can remember
. Sorry if it's not too organized.
I'd say 60-40 TL's favor. I've played all sorts of good Snakes over the West coast like DSF, Kamaji, OMGage, etc.
Err, anyway, my best advice to Snake is to not grenade camp vs toon Link. Stupidest idea to do since TL's spam is much more superior to Snake's. With Snake just run and powersheild all of TL's projectiles and Sheild Cancel into Ftilts all day like a wild panther! Do that and grab -> Dthrow and tech chasesies and that's pretty much the only way you can play this matchup.
Toon Link can basically SHDA to cancel Snake's Boost Smashes and throw a boomerang up in case Snake wants to jump over the arrows. TL can Bair space Snake's sheild and sheild before Snake can Sheild cancel into a ftilt, jab, or uptilt. He can't sheild grab TL if he spaces his Bair properly but he messes up then he can. TL can do near 0-50% combos if he lands a bair too. TL can sheild grab Snake's Ftilt and has some pretty ferocious edgeguarding as well. He controls the field so he has more options to choose from and react faster than Snake can in this matchup.
There's more I'm probably forgetting but that's a good sumarry of most of what I can remember
. Sorry if it's not too organized.
Panix
Smash Ace
far from correct at all. your spam dosn't beat ours. and you won't pick it up and throw it back. because if you try to pick up our nades you will just get it stripped and take dmg. our stage control limits your spam because you'll be forever trying to position yourself while taking gernades. our f-tilt beats ALL your tilts and smashs in distant, (even your fsmash) our U smash eats at TL's that love to stay in the air, if you try to recover we will probably mortar slide and then nikita circle you at the edge for a ez gimp. go check your boards, people actually considered this matchup to be in snakes favor 70:30.
(not that i consider it 70:30 Snake, i believe its around 60:40)
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
No need to grenade strip if you cook your nades properly.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Chip hit the nail on the head.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
On our boards acctually its considered 50:50
Motor Slides not that bigg a prob.
And Toon Link doesn't have probs with Snake usmash where the hell you hear that?
By the time you usmash you'll eat a nair to bow cancel or bair chain to utilt.
Yea ftilt is a prob but we have zair for your ftilt.
I'm afraid our spam out beats yours not by a land slide or by alot. But enough to make nades not seems really worth spamming at us. Most of your nades will be dodged or thrown off anyway.
Like I said before a good Snake can just strip us but it wont happen everytime.
Cooked nades are your best bet.
Toon Links mid range game barely passes Snakes.
But Snakes still over powerful with his tilts and jab combo and maintaining perfect mid range is impossible cause we must go for the kill.
Thats where the problem really comes in.
Against a good Snake you'll probally be knocked to Toon Link uncomfortable zone long range...
This is where nades and Snakes stage control is a prob.
Which no matter how hard Toon Link tries at high lvl play he will be here during the match.
So I agree with chip but I still dont think hes considering Snakes annoying shield dropped nades and tilt power, speed, and reach.
Not to mention how easily Snake can gimp us
I still stand by 45:55 Snake if I give a ratio.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Dam you Santi. I do not know a "razor" :DDannggg..
You guys hit pretty much everything on this matchup
Good job TL's.
I got nothing razor
<3
Panix
Smash Ace
no i believe you, i only played a few talented Tinks in my lifetime anyway. but when ever i play a tink (especially when i counter pick stages like smash ville) they have problems with the stage, which forces them to move around alot. The thing with Tink is that is projectiles are slllloooowwww, i see them coming from miles away, snakes strip grenades (and cooking) are verrrrry fast and hard to counter. even when you guys powershield a nade or even just shield it their is the initial hit and then the explosion ( which has a huge hitbox ) after they shield it i usually have another nade ready to be thrown. when i say Usmash is a problem i don't mean at ground level, i mean when tink is floating in air. he has a nice tendancy to be up in the air alot. SHDA'ing and double jumping their bombs. when ever i see a tink pulling a bomb out i go for the slide because i expect anthor hop, which usually happens.On our boards acctually its considered 50:50
Motor Slides not that bigg a prob.
And Toon Link doesn't have probs with Snake usmash where the hell you hear that?
By the time you usmash you'll eat a nair to bow cancel or bair chain to utilt.
Yea ftilt is a prob but we have zair for your ftilt.
I'm afraid our spam out beats yours not by a land slide or by alot. But enough to make nades not seems really worth spamming at us. Most of your nades will be dodged or thrown off anyway.
Like I said before a good Snake can just strip us but it wont happen everytime.
Cooked nades are your best bet.
Toon Links mid range game barely passes Snakes.
But Snakes still over powerful with his tilts and jab combo and maintaining perfect mid range is impossible cause we must go for the kill.
Thats where the problem really comes in.
Against a good Snake you'll probally be knocked to Toon Link uncomfortable zone long range...
This is where nades and Snakes stage control is a prob.
Which no matter how hard Toon Link tries at high lvl play he will be here during the match.
So I agree with chip but I still dont think hes considering Snakes annoying shield dropped nades and tilt power, speed, and reach.
Not to mention how easily Snake can gimp us
I still stand by 45:55 Snake if I give a ratio.
I'm just putting my input out their, i know the match is in snakes favor, but not by alot. I still stand by 60:40 but i can agree on 55:45.
BlueShield
Smash Cadet
Even if we get stripped or you cook the nades it's still a predictable move because of the obvious position Snake takes while holding it. We can go for a quick airdodge then start a nice SHDA bair combo. I still take into consideration the priority of Snake's tilts but that won't help if Snake's getting combo'd. Know that TL's almost never use the FSmash or at least not the second strike. Snake's smashes arent useful at all against TL. RPG too slow, we don't go into the air unless we want to combo or get around the stage. I don't know the priority of the mortar but TL can jump high. Snake's shouldn't charge the mortar just to reach TL since the mortar is only unidirectional also remember TL's great DI. And down smash mines can be taken out by the boomerang.
buuut Snake is waaay stronger than TL. He has more range and priority too.
TL just barely outspams Snake but that's about it.
BTW I agree with Chip on the note that not to camp with nades. TL can get past them no problem.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
I agree that TL out camps snake, but not by a ton. I'll post more later.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
I see what you mean now...
When we bomb now from a bomb pull expect a bow cancel.
I wanna see what Ken has to say
:]
Panix
Smash Ace
I'm not trying to start a argument, but a couple of things made me chuckle.Even if we get stripped or you cook the nades it's still a predictable move because of the obvious position Snake takes while holding it. We can go for a quick airdodge then start a nice SHDA bair combo. I still take into consideration the priority of Snake's tilts but that won't help if Snake's getting combo'd. Know that TL's almost never use the FSmash or at least not the second strike. Snake's smashes arent useful at all against TL. RPG too slow, we don't go into the air unless we want to combo or get around the stage. I don't know the priority of the mortar but TL can jump high. Snake's shouldn't charge the mortar just to reach TL since the mortar is only unidirectional also remember TL's great DI. And down smash mines can be taken out by the boomerang.
buuut Snake is waaay stronger than TL. He has more range and priority too.
TL just barely outspams Snake but that's about it.
BTW I agree with Chip on the note that not to camp with nades. TL can get past them no problem.
First, was :
Even if we get stripped or you cook the nades it's still a predictable move because of the obvious position Snake takes while holding it
If you even know snake remotely you know that right when he pulls a gernade that he shield drops it and picks it up, putting him back into a neutral stance.
Second:
I still take into consideration the priority of Snake's tilts but that won't help if Snake's getting combo'd.
This can be said about ANYONE. If toon link is getting combo'd obviously he isn't going to be SHDA'ing or Bair combo'ing us either.
Third:
we don't go into the air unless we want to combo or get around the stage.
This whole sentence is hilarious. Tink stays in the air using his Zair to space and punish people with his fair's and bairs.
Finally:
Snake's shouldn't charge the mortar just to reach TL since the mortar is only unidirectional also remember TL's great DI.
What are you talking about? Snake will always try to charge his mortar to hit you, it's not always about hitting you, it's about setting up a barrier that makes you stay in the fray, also if it lands, ez KO.
Sorry if I came off rude, but I don't think you know much about the Tink vs Snake match-up
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
I don’t care how much dam priority your tilts give nothing a good bomb can’t stop cause we hardly ever use tilts or smashes save up smash for killing which we save from being stale and i said about the ibomb the I in it means invincible as in bomb hurts u and we get a nice lill combo unhurt u should check your opponents boards mate.
and if we see you stood there holding your nades were not gonna just catch em and if you shield drop your nades its not invisible you know we can see you doing it.....
and yes our projectiles are a bit slower than yours wopdedo u got 2 nades coming at us when we got 2 arrows 2 bombs and a rang coming at you which act as a shield and an attack
oh and if im "far from correct at all" about our spam/camp being better its funny how everyone else is saying how ours beats yours just made me giggle ^^
and mortar is still a smash so im pretty sure we can pogo it so no ez gimp/ko or watever
AND "Tink stays in the air using his Zair to space and punish people with his fair's and bairs" WTF you know NOTHING NOTHING I TELL YOU!! our zair is a suprise attack not our main one cause we dont have a main one the whole point about toon link is that he keeps you guessing bettween spamming camping airels tricks and gimps not as simple as spaceing with zair....
AND YES YOU WERE RUDE!!!!! ^^
Edit: oh and if the ppl on our boards considered this 70:30 snake WHY THE HELL IS IT 45:55-50:50 THERE hmmm? why? why i ask u?
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
Panix, show some respect man. These people are taking their time to come and help us out. They have already discussed it on their board, so technically, helping us is getting them nowhere. So please don't get the snake boards a reputation of bashing everyone who comes in tries to help.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure they know more about what their character does than we do. So let's accept their advice
Oh, and I'm pretty sure they know more about what their character does than we do. So let's accept their advice
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
This guy has got more than just a head on his shoulders Panix u could and should learn from him i'm saying this as kindly as possible.Panix, show some respect man. These people are taking their time to come and help us out. They have already discussed it on their board, so technically, helping us is getting them nowhere. So please don't get the snake boards a reputation of bashing everyone who comes in tries to help.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure they know more about what their character does than we do. So let's accept their advice
Panix
Smash Ace
I am mearly just debating, If I believe something about snake that they have said then i will try to prove the fact that snake does. I'm not trying to make it personal, but i do kinda believe some of my points.
This is a game, and it could be fundamental debated.
This is a game, and it could be fundamental debated.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
Yes, but you could do it in a way that doesn't make you look like a douche
No hard feelings. I just don't want them to dread trying to help us LOL.
No hard feelings. I just don't want them to dread trying to help us LOL.
Hot_ArmS
Smash Hero
anyways......
ban delfino
fd too?? i personally like FD against tl though
i also like going ps1, dunno why though cause tl can camp you pretty hard on the platform change i know
ban delfino
fd too?? i personally like FD against tl though
i also like going ps1, dunno why though cause tl can camp you pretty hard on the platform change i know
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
I don't mind FD either. But I'm guessing it's considered a good TL stage(?). I personally like BF vs Toon Link.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
Yea FD is an ok Toon Link Stage
Ban BF maybeit depends on the player.
Really no matter where you go on neutrals its 55:45 Snake except Corneria, Yoshi's Island brawl and Rainbow Criuse.
Frist 2 male it easier for Snake last 1 is Rainbow cruise...Toon Links more mobile lol.
Oh Luigis Masion too is a better stage for Snake his spam can be utilized still while ours is near completely ruined.
:\
Jase chill man its all good dont feul the fire find a nicer way to approach rudeness like I did.
Lets not be so hott headed.
:D
k?
Ban BF maybeit depends on the player.
Really no matter where you go on neutrals its 55:45 Snake except Corneria, Yoshi's Island brawl and Rainbow Criuse.
Frist 2 male it easier for Snake last 1 is Rainbow cruise...Toon Links more mobile lol.
Oh Luigis Masion too is a better stage for Snake his spam can be utilized still while ours is near completely ruined.
:\
Jase chill man its all good dont feul the fire find a nicer way to approach rudeness like I did.
Lets not be so hott headed.
:D
k?
Panix
Smash Ace
oh, and by the way jase
quoted from dark nemisis:
Snake is the closest thing to "broken" in this game.
With his godly tilts and grenade cooking, he can both outspace and outcamp Tink with ease.
Toon link has no advantage in this match up, but there's still hope.
Never, NEVER approach a Snake head-on. His tilts have a ridiculous range with an invisible hitbox.
Also, watch out for his grenades. If they're cooked, they will almost certainly hit, which gives him enough time to execute the Mortar Slide.
So if you can't camp or approach, what are you supposed to do?
Well, in this fight, your Boomerang is your best friend. It's good enough to stall his nikitas and stop his grenades. SHDA is really useful against any Snake to.
Since you outcamped and outranged, Tink will be in a great disadvantage. But due to his fast running speed (RUN! NEVER jump towards a Snake), you can easily run in and punish his lags.
Also, Snake's airgame sucks. Bring him up in the air and rack up damage. You can also gimp his recoveries easily.
Long story short: Toon Link is in a great disadvantage. But with smart play, mindgames and(smart use of) projectiles, Toon Link does still stand a chance.
One of Toon Link's hardest match ups.
30/70
quoted from dark nemisis:
Snake is the closest thing to "broken" in this game.
With his godly tilts and grenade cooking, he can both outspace and outcamp Tink with ease.
Toon link has no advantage in this match up, but there's still hope.
Never, NEVER approach a Snake head-on. His tilts have a ridiculous range with an invisible hitbox.
Also, watch out for his grenades. If they're cooked, they will almost certainly hit, which gives him enough time to execute the Mortar Slide.
So if you can't camp or approach, what are you supposed to do?
Well, in this fight, your Boomerang is your best friend. It's good enough to stall his nikitas and stop his grenades. SHDA is really useful against any Snake to.
Since you outcamped and outranged, Tink will be in a great disadvantage. But due to his fast running speed (RUN! NEVER jump towards a Snake), you can easily run in and punish his lags.
Also, Snake's airgame sucks. Bring him up in the air and rack up damage. You can also gimp his recoveries easily.
Long story short: Toon Link is in a great disadvantage. But with smart play, mindgames and(smart use of) projectiles, Toon Link does still stand a chance.
One of Toon Link's hardest match ups.
30/70
bludhoundz
Smash Ace
On an open stage, TL can definitely outcamp Snake.
bombs + boomerang + arrows outcamps just nades.
Snake has to get in close to **** with tilts. TL's last line of spacing defense is zair, which outranges ftilt (first hit at least), not sure about utilt though, and you can crouch to dodge it.
I say it's a fairly close match, probably 60:40 or 55:45 Snake. He's at a disadvantage from afar and in the air, but up close it's in his favor by a lot.
bombs + boomerang + arrows outcamps just nades.
Snake has to get in close to **** with tilts. TL's last line of spacing defense is zair, which outranges ftilt (first hit at least), not sure about utilt though, and you can crouch to dodge it.
I say it's a fairly close match, probably 60:40 or 55:45 Snake. He's at a disadvantage from afar and in the air, but up close it's in his favor by a lot.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
Panix Who the heck is that?
lolz
That must be really old Toon Link barely out camps Snake.
Because Toon Link doesn't camp standing still...
He camp while moving from mid to close to mid again not that pattern persay but a idea if you dont see our vids.
Go watch vids of Santi, Chip, Jerm, Quivo, and nearly every other Toon Link shows it on our boards. This form of camping that I call "highspeed camping".
Cooked nades wont bother us if we hit you with a bow cancel it will make you drop it
:\
Blodhoundz
Snake cant crouch under zair unless they use it at the begining of thier SH for some reason.
Mostly its used where it autocancels. Its laggless.
And close range Snake ***** us >.>...
We can still do stuff but his tilts are near overwellming close range.
lolz
That must be really old Toon Link barely out camps Snake.
Because Toon Link doesn't camp standing still...
He camp while moving from mid to close to mid again not that pattern persay but a idea if you dont see our vids.
Go watch vids of Santi, Chip, Jerm, Quivo, and nearly every other Toon Link shows it on our boards. This form of camping that I call "highspeed camping".
Cooked nades wont bother us if we hit you with a bow cancel it will make you drop it
:\
Blodhoundz
Snake cant crouch under zair unless they use it at the begining of thier SH for some reason.
Mostly its used where it autocancels. Its laggless.
And close range Snake ***** us >.>...
We can still do stuff but his tilts are near overwellming close range.
Hot_ArmS
Smash Hero
so i guess small stages like battlefield are good stages for snake against TL? since it has less space so more chance of snake to get closer right?
Nope
Smash Lord
I personally hate BF against TL I ban it. it lets him have his perfect spacing range against us most of the time and the platforms really help him keep us in the air and uair our recovery when we are coming down.
Shadow_of_Link
Smash Apprentice
I find BF to be one of the worst stages to take Snake against TL. TL has alot of aerial mobility, and the small stage and platforms will keep Snake in the air forever. It is, however, easier to hide and fight back from projectile spam, but a stage like Smashville or Frigate Orpheon easily takes care of that without the size issue.
As for the matchup, I'd say it's 60:40 Snake's advantage.
As for the matchup, I'd say it's 60:40 Snake's advantage.