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What follows was the original reason why I posted:
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I'm of the opinion that grenade camping actually works well against Luigi...
Look at it this way: Luigi is a short ranged character - all of his attacks, all save the fireball (which isn't a particularly useful way of
directly 'approaching'), are melee. This automatically means that until he sets up a serious string of attacks in one brilliant fury of combo-goodness, his entire game is based on approaching. Snake can camp the bazoonga out of Luigi with anything he wants - it's just the question of how useful the camping is. Looking specifically at grenades, they *are* items that can be picked up, and they don't do immediate damage upon impact (save for a few percent if they happen to bounce hard enough on a character). However, if touched by any of Luigi's attacks
without clashing, the
will blow up. Because Luigi's tornadoes are multi-hit, the grenade is bound to blow up (one reason why I absolutely despise grenades).
Also, snake can bake his grenades. By baking the grenades, he eliminates Luigi's ability to grab and glide-toss the explosives back to him. Now, this then presents us with a dilemma for snake. He may be able to bake his grenades, but he has to pull it out, wait for somewhere between 2 and 3 seconds, and then throw them to get the proper range of thrown distance before self-detonation. During this time, Luigi can come up and beat the crap out of him - right?
Not really.
Assuming that when Snake started his grenade camping Luigi was roughly two thirds the width of Battlefield or more away, by the time Luigi makes it to Snake with any running approach at least a full second has passed. By the time Luigi enacts a combo of great justice on the camouflaged warrior, the grenade's timer has run out and the grenade blows up. Given that Snake has a higher damage
hance of living ratio than Luigi (both can knockback the bazoonga out of each other with certain attacks), this is a net gain for Snake even if he
does get hit by his own explosives.
What about the tornado then? It's a quick approach that can get the heck away, yes? Well, Snake just shields using the Z-button, the baking grenade falls, and boom - the tornado blows it up. What's worse is that Snake can actually shield this one if he bakes grenades not by dropping them where he stands but by holding them and subsequently dropping them to rethrow them as items. Tornadoes aren't exactly the smartest moves against a smart grenadier.
The only definite exploitable weakness of a grenade camping Snake in this match-up as far as I can tell is Luigi going mafia on him from the air - which, admittedly, is the thing he's best at.
So, I kind of agree with you KoRoBeNiKi, but for different reasons...
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What follows shouldn't be taken seriously <_<
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And as long as we're throwing out random numbers... I'd say that, given that both players know the match-up and are decently skilled, Luigi and Snake are about even as characters (max difference is probably 55/45 in
either direction from what I'm hearing). Snake's tilts may be godly, but I'm having trouble seeing them getting pulled off at close range against Luigi. Once Luigi has gotten within melee range of Snake's hurtbox, he can grill Snake with a variety of shenanigans all spawning from a three frame 'fwap' to the face (jab numero uno - granted, Snake's jab is faster by a single frame. See my edit.). The moment the jab hits, Snake's susceptibility to being comboed is pretty high due to a 5+ frame hitstun (see:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199907 - again, granted, the hitstun could be less because there are a few missing frame values). Then again, Luigi typically would have to get within jab range or grab range (down throw is yet another combo starter) to get anything done on Snake to move him from from the ground into the air for extended combos (the *cough*useful*cough* kinds). This kind of approach doesn't appear to be very conducive to Luigi's health in general (with the exception perhaps of buffering attacks via whiffed down-aerial or air dodge into the ground), so I leave it at that.
Then there's the set up of combos from the air. This is probably what the Luigi player is going to be doing - it avoids nearly all of the problems of Snake's rather long tilt and jab hitboxes on the ground... except for the U-tilt.
My problem is that I've not played any Snakes that used the U-tilt very much (they've always been highly effective grenade campers, and I've always been stupid enough to approach from the ground so they've never needed to use the U-tilt, regardless of its ungodly horizontal range) so I don't know much beyond that.
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Question: Does Luigi's N-air beat out Snake's N-air in terms of priority? What about his other aerials?
EDIT: DANG!!! Snake's jab is TWO FRAMES? Jeez. And his forward tilt is three frames? Wowwwwwww - wtfhax >_< lawls. Just kidding of course. At that speed, the single frame difference between Snake's jab and Luigi's jab is negligible compared to human error, anyway (I'm
quite doubtful that anyone can perfectly play matches frame by single frame).
EDIT EDIT: Just kidding - the jab is three frames and the tilt is four frames. I misread Snake's frame datums (datums is a more awesome word than data - shaddup).
Note: While some of what I've said has come from pattern recognition, the majority of the above post is theorycraft.
