This is dead, look for the new matchup thread. Be sure to read the rules.

[Royta]

hate to interupt, but hell i'll do it anyway =)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217233&page=12

Samus boards are discussing the Snake matchup, so anyone can be free to enter their opinions.

Didn't feel like making a whole new topic about it so i'll just post it here;p

 

[Panix]

they went to go back to their base to fap and make moar bombing nade factories yes? XD. Well how about let's be gay by adding more post and taking a page of theirs by discussing quickly on the stage issue as this is usually the last one if yyou can't decide on the ratio espically if its a 50/50 or 45/55 discussion? Hands down luigi has like 50-50 or 55/45 on RC on snake. Though obviously most snake's players will say that they will ban it (yes i know tourney wise), it doesn't exclude the fact he's at a disadvantage.

I can't really think of other stages except for luigi mainers love to do is at Cornia and Brinstar as luigi specializes highly there.

never bring snake to corneia. it's just not worth it.

 

[hippiedude92]

A quick addition - tack on 'walking and f-tilting' as an approach. Said approach can be mixed up by crawldashing back just outside of Snake's U-tilt range and fireballing (rinse, repeat) or f-tilting (good idea due to its clank-iness? It probably clanks with the U-tilt's invisible hitbox, but I dunno, I'll check that out later). As for Snake's D-tilt (which has not been discussed at all)... I'm still confused as to how it may or may not affect these approaches. There are just so many ways that an approach could be made and could be countered or fail to be countered...



I don't think that going for low ceiling stages would give Luigi that much of an advantage - Snake's U-tilt has ridiculous range and ridiculous Snakeback (it's so strong that it defies the rather weak definition of knockback), thus making such stage attributes questionable. I mean, potential-kill-wise and percentage-wise, I would place a low ceiling as being more advantageous to Luigi than to Snake - but in case I'm wrong, I think a few other things need to be going for Luigi first...

Due to the relatively easy time Luigis have with spiking Snake and aerial superiority, especially off-stage, I'd be more inclined to place greater emphasis on the stage having large, wide open spaces between ground and blast zone and a cramped central platform or set of cramped central platforms, preferably with uneven terrain than to put emphasis on vertical 'shortness'.

Stages with anti-camp gimmicks are more than welcome :-D

Now... I'm going to rapidly jump through a few stages with little to no analysis. Be prepared for mindlessness:

Hanenbow

Believe it or not, Hanenbow comes to mind as a nice stage for this, but if I'm not mistaken, it's banned...​

75m

I'm absolutely serious! Snake may move quickly in the air, but he certainly isn't mobile enough to camp the upper level, and the rest of the level with its variety of spaces and platforms that can be attacked through and jumped through and... and... like. Really. I mean... Just look at it! It's almost screaming, "Advantage, Luigi!" with its huge variety of anti-camper mechanisms. Too bad it's banned <_<​

Pictochat

While Pictochat changes often, there's a certain 'safe zone' in the lower left that is devoid of all hazards and changes (save for the influence of that guy who blows [pun intended]). Not particularly advantageous to either character (as in, there's no additive effect) - it doesn't change enough to horribly affect Snake's camping game or to allow Luigi an easy approach. The central platform is too big for positive effects stemming from the transformations to even be noticeable...​

Castle Siege

2/3rds of Castle Siege (1st [uneven, cramped] and 3rd [wide empty spaces on the sides, relatively small central stage] forms) matches up okay.​

Lylat Cruise

Lylat Cruise is... Is... Well, if it doesn't favor Luigi, it probably favors Snake.​

Frigate Orpheon

Frigate Orpheon moves around a bit, has a few platforms... and it has roughly uneven terrain. Sounds like a fair match.​

AWESOME IDEA I JUST HAD!

Delfino Isle and Halberd... Why do I group these two together? Because their central platforms spend a relatively large amount of time floating in the middle of nowhere. What's so interesting about floating in the middle of nowhere? Rise-through platforms. What's so awesome about rise through platforms?

T3h Mindgames! What if, let's say, a Snake has just thrown Luigi off of the edge of the platform while in mid flight? Let's say that you sort of 'whiffed' a Side-B recovery and Snake is standing there being a happy edge-guarder. TORNADO YOUR WAY BACK UP INTO HIM AND BE LIKE, "WUT NOW!?" *cough* Okay, so, that was uncalled for, but really, just a little idea... It doesn't make or break the match, just adds one more way of getting into Snake's personal bubble (admittedly, this suffers from the edge-guarding Snake dropping grenades at the edge). Actually... No - this is entirely situational and should probably only be attempted, like, once per match (if that!).

But, really, with regards to Delfino, like DMG said, it'd be an interesting match-up... Halberd's cramped quarters, low in-flight ceiling and wide open air spaces should give Luigi some decent chances at getting face-to-face with Snake and taking him OUTSIDE for the match!​

Spear Pillar

... that lower level screams 'camp-mania!' to me. The stage gimmicks, in my opinion, aren't near enough in number or widespread power to counter Snake's campiness on the lower level...​

Norfair

I'm leaning towards saying that it's advantage Luigi, due to the variety of platforms. The only place Snake can effectively camp is the bottom platform (everywhere else Luigi can get beneath him and start an aerial combo), and even then, the stage gimmicks should eventually force him away from that lone place of solace.​

Smashville

*CRACK* Snake just put me to sleep... No anti-camp gimmicks, almost zero stage variability. That moving platform doesn't do jack to assist Luigi.​

Rainbow Cruise

It's already been accepted that RC gives Snake the shivers. Yay for the green thunder!​

Okay, that's all that I feel like doing... I'm sleepy... And my abilities of rational thought are failing me. I may have made a few logical errors within the above post - feel free to bash me for them :-P

Snake's dtilt isn't much of a threat. It can be SH'd easily.

I haven't given much thought of crawldashing as a approach but as a mindgame so idunno since I haven't really used it before it. Vist or chic should give input on it.

What made my night was that, i lost in aib ladder match at last stock both of us 100%+, I accidently rolled into Snake's Fsmash. Srsly that thing ***** >_>.

btw question : does Snake's utilt have any differnece in priority or knockback depending on range? Like if the invisible hitboxes kill earlier then usual? or is it the same?

On corneria - I did some testing. Lol Snake's utilt has pratically a mini shoryuken going for him. Snake's utilt kills @ 66% on the top of the fin (on fd kills 102% big difference no?). On the left to middle side, his utilt kills @ 85%. Luigi's shoryuken on the top fin part at 36% (wow holy **** lmfao). Literally a luigi all he has to do a dair nair to utilt then look for a opening or jab upb him and he's a dead man. Alot of luigi's LOVE to camp on the fin because of how quick it easy to bait people there and kill fast with OOS upb. Alot of times if they pull off the quick kill, their % will be around 30%s depending if they did it w/o fail. IMO, it's pretty easy to see the C4s and landmines since it's so bright ;D haha. IMO it's like 55/45 if not 50/50 on corneria but idk how he does here.

AWESOME IDEA I JUST HAD!

Delfino Isle and Halberd... Why do I group these two together? Because their central platforms spend a relatively large amount of time floating in the middle of nowhere. What's so interesting about floating in the middle of nowhere? Rise-through platforms. What's so awesome about rise through platforms?

T3h Mindgames! What if, let's say, a Snake has just thrown Luigi off of the edge of the platform while in mid flight? Let's say that you sort of 'whiffed' a Side-B recovery and Snake is standing there being a happy edge-guarder. TORNADO YOUR WAY BACK UP INTO HIM AND BE LIKE, "WUT NOW!?" *cough* Okay, so, that was uncalled for, but really, just a little idea... It doesn't make or break the match, just adds one more way of getting into Snake's personal bubble (admittedly, this suffers from the edge-guarding Snake dropping grenades at the edge). Actually... No - this is entirely situational and should probably only be attempted, like, once per match (if that!).

But, really, with regards to Delfino, like DMG said, it'd be an interesting match-up... Halberd's cramped quarters, low in-flight ceiling and wide open air spaces should give Luigi some decent chances at getting face-to-face with Snake and taking him OUTSIDE for the match!​

uh wut Atash. You on crack son? Lmfao. To exclude all the unnesscary words, he's saying if luigi's on the edge or offstage while recovering; luigi will use a tornado recovery from below to hit snake. Yes this works; but if your predictable they'll be setting a C4 somewhere. Also just have to watch where the nades and all the C4s be at. I find Delfino just about 50/50 and almost same with halberd too. or 55/45 idk lol. If snake's tries to recover from below the middle ghost stage, he'll either get taunt spiked or Dair spiked. (yes it has happened before).

On halberd - The floating stage I like alot. The platform is perfect for any aerial set ups. There are alot of times luigis will love to abuse the fact you can attack from under the stage.
When it lands to the bigger flat place, it's really big. Tornado approachs are great (if there's a C4 or nade, he can always rise the tornado). The lips are really great for stage spiking. If not potentially, hazards can cause a mistake and the tide of the match. More on this abit later.

On frigate - I fight alot of Snakes here for some reason lol. It's pretty fearsome if you can't see the placed stuff out there by Snake. It might be I'm colorblinded (LOL..) but sometimes I can't even see where the C4 is placed because of how dark it is. I love the slanted slopes the platform is another perfect set up and great place to rise your tornado on. Sliding Dsmashs cover alot of ground on the slopes. There's gonna be times where the stage turns upside down which I find myself the best opening since Snake is possibly and usually offstage.

on lylat - i hate this stage 55/45 snake here lol.

 

[Atash]

uh wut Atash. You on crack son? Lmfao. To exclude all the unnesscary words, he's saying if luigi's on the edge or offstage while recovering; luigi will use a tornado recovery from below to hit snake. Yes this works; but if your predictable they'll be setting a C4 somewhere. Also just have to watch where the nades and all the C4s be at. I find Delfino just about 50/50 and almost same with halberd too. or 55/45 idk lol. If snake's tries to recover from below the middle ghost stage, he'll either get taunt spiked or Dair spiked. (yes it has happened before).

Please note though that I also made the comment 'entirely situational'. :-P Just another tool in the toolbox...

Really though - any Snake comments on Norfair?

 

[ScAtt77]

well as some of you know, I do happen to play as snake too lol.

Norfair may be a good stage for snake for one reason: tech-chasing. It becomes extremely easy for him to d-throw tech chase because of the short platforms

 

[hippiedude92]

^^ he does have a good point. It''ll just be more of a who can out think the other :/ Personally I don't get techchased unless im really dumb lol and the most i've had is maybe 2-3? lol sometimes i always think of it as melee xD

 

[Ken Neth]

Yeah, norfair is an extremely good snake stage. Tech chasing, camping, it's hard to see c4/mines/grenades, multiple edges make it easier to return, etc.

 

[napZzz]

ugh the dam luigi boards wont live this one down z__z

Good discussion though. I'm sure a summary post can be ready at any point, and these past few pages are good. And ken neth, another problem with posting pages to discussions is that not everything said is always good advice or good input, some people are stupid and dont know what the hell they are talking about at all and can really throw off a reader if they take things srsly they read on all the pages.

The summary is just a good way of keeping all the good things in one short version on the front page that easy to find.

 

[Atash]

I'm starting to realize that my limited knowledge and experience does not fit well with stage discussion - nevertheless, I'll continue to input my opinions :-D.

well as some of you know, I do happen to play as snake too lol.

Norfair may be a good stage for snake for one reason: tech-chasing. It becomes extremely easy for him to d-throw tech chase because of the short platforms

Well, while tech-chasing may be a problem, I still believe that the anti-camp gimmicks more than account for that problem. While tech-chasing may be a small part of Snake's game, Luigi's ability to approach is a large portion of his game - the disproportionate balance of advantages should at least level the playing field between the characters in my opinion...

EDIT:

Yeah, norfair is an extremely good snake stage. Tech chasing, camping, it's hard to see c4/mines/grenades, multiple edges make it easier to return, etc.

Hmm, but what about the stage gimmicks? And, yes, C4 are hard to see - but every time I have played a Snake, I've kept track of where he does his readily visible crouch-place-C4 motion (as well as where dark objects falling from the sky land). Also, it's an almost innate response now for me to shield/air-dodge/double-jump-when-not-stickied when I hear him yell 'NOW!'.

Also, if I'm a Luigi, I doubt I'd really care where you hung yourself so long as you had gotten comboed to hell and back again before - something which at the very least is offered by the stage's layout combined with its gimmicks. Really, the only saving grace for being U-aired through the platforms Snake has is his explosives activating. Being as it is that mines explode as you stand over them, that's out of the question. C-4 wouldn't activate fast enough. Grenades are all that're left (nikita doesn't even get a place in this part of the convo). Maybe a good power-shield... but because you're ultimately higher up than Luigi due to being displaced by the stage gimmicks (and Luigi is almost guaranteed to get beneath you due to his greater aerial maneuverability [this disregards booby traps such as proximity mines, but are they really that significant in this match? You'll be approached constantly the moment you make a jump... Where would you find the time?]), you're bound to get aerial comboed, which has already been accepted as being capable of shifting the match-up in Luigi's favor.

Norfair provides an advantage to both players (disproportionately more in Luigi's favor - but Snake still gains)... I'm going to agree with what hippie said - it's who outsmarts the other one on that stage.

END EDIT

What about Jungle Japes? While the small platforms on the side are probably rife with the problems of tech chasing, they're also so small that Luigi could avoid the problem all together and just U-air or F-air Snake from below the stage (while watching out for grenades, of course), and second jump into another aerial before returning to the center stage or comboing like a madman. As for the problems of the center stage... If Snake occupies the level's center, it's essentially as if he's camping Smashville from the center. If he's closer to the side, the same U-air approach through the bottoms of the platforms could be mixed up with normal approaches... I feel that DK's Island stage dilutes the approach problem for everywhere but the center of the central platform.

Still possibly Snake's advantage simply because of the problematic approach, but it's a diluted issue.

Mario Circuit goes to Snake, probably. A lack of anything off-stage compounded with a flat lower level that has safe zones doesn't provide me with much confidence for Luigi gaining further approaches and mix-ups.

Distant Planet is particularly interesting for me - the central platform can be jumped through, allowing Luigi the ability to get beneath Snake. The rain gimmick disallows Snake from camping the far left for any extended period of time (and if he does, his jump back to the central platform is punishable). The numbered pellets give a possible advantage to Luigi while he's on the central platform - his reverse-glide-toss could be compounded with grabs to punish shield-stun or jab->*anything* combos to punish hit-stun (Snake doesn't get much of an advantage out of the pellets as far as I'm aware - his grenades are superior items for him, jah?). The large open space beneath the platforms is conducive to spiking... I'm leaning towards saying that Distant Planet is advantage Luigi.

Anndddd - I'm done with this wall of text. :-P Enjoy the eye strain.

EDIT: Wow, I wrote a lot less than I thought I did...

 

[Ken Neth]

ugh the dam luigi boards wont live this one down z__z

Good discussion though. I'm sure a summary post can be ready at any point, and these past few pages are good. And ken neth, another problem with posting pages to discussions is that not everything said is always good advice or good input, some people are stupid and dont know what the hell they are talking about at all and can really throw off a reader if they take things srsly they read on all the pages.

The summary is just a good way of keeping all the good things in one short version on the front page that easy to find.

If they read the whole discussion though they will also see what people disagree on and what they say isn't right. But yeah, you're right. I just don't feel up to writing summaries on top of all my other work I have to do. As I said, if someone is up to writing them then I will gladly put them up. I'll add that Diddy one now.

 

[hippiedude92]

atash when i get into college your gonna write me a college essay based on luigi okay?

uh i only read few portions of it, so i'll get back to my post whenever, but just to throw it out there, if luigi is zoning the middle plat on japes, and snakes decides to approch, he'll get wrecked by pivot grabs <3

oh and the moment any snake jumps hes a dead man. which i dont see why they would jump except for maybe a nair would can be easily taken off with pivot grab or a pivot sliding fsmash

 

[Shadow_of_Link]

We should do what the Marth boards did and create individual discussion threads to make it easier if no one wants to write a summary.

 

[Dark Ryu]

yes way man, that would be less work.

 

[Ken Neth]

Not really. Just every time we do a new character we can create a new thread for it. That way it will contain only discussion on that character, and not get mixed in with others. We can link to them all from here.

I saw that on the marth boards awhile ago, and I like that idea.

 

[Dark Ryu]

I agree with Ken Neth. It keeps out the clusters of matchup posts. Good idea Shadow of link.

 

[Ken Neth]

I agree with Ken Neth. It keeps out the clusters of matchup posts. Good idea Shadow of link.

You forgot your orange text marco. Shame on you.

How close is the luigi discussion to being over? I haven't been keeping up on all of it because of how much there is to read..

 

[hippiedude92]

i blame wall of texts. lazy to read lol.

 

[lanky_gunner]

It looks like there's enough solid information. It's just a summary is needed before we can move onto the next person.

 

[Ken Neth]

We don't necessarily need a summary to move on. This is where match-up boards die; when no one wants to write the summary, but people feel like they can't go on till someone writes a summary. It seems like some of these luigi mains love writing long posts though, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them would feel up to summarizing this discussion Any takers?

 

[skyace89]

lol i would say Atash or Hippie would be the wigi mains that would do the summary...if any wigi main actually wants to write a summary.

 

[hippiedude92]

i blame atash's wall of text lol. quote every useful post we put and there it'll be a summary? Lawl. I thought our discussion was still going but I thought most people have work or don't have midwinter recess is the reason why this kinda abit slowed down. So idk lol. last thing i remember was talking about stage wise.

 

[Ken Neth]

If the discussion is still going on then by all means, let it go on. I have been too lazy to keep up on this one, so I wasn't sure where it was and took the lack of discussion as it being almost over.

 

[Atash]

We don't necessarily need a summary to move on. This is where match-up boards die; when no one wants to write the summary, but people feel like they can't go on till someone writes a summary. It seems like some of these luigi mains love writing long posts though, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them would feel up to summarizing this discussion Any takers?

Say what? What long posts? I don't see any long posts...

lol i would say Atash or Hippie would be the wigi mains that would do the summary...if any wigi main actually wants to write a summary.

Uhhhhh - false? It's your Snake boards. :-P

i blame atash's wall of text lol. quote every useful post we put and there it'll be a summary? Lawl. I thought our discussion was still going but I thought most people have work or don't have midwinter recess is the reason why this kinda abit slowed down. So idk lol. last thing i remember was talking about stage wise.

Yep - we're talking about stages. Yep - there's busyness with random business everywhere (homophones for the win)!

If the discussion is still going on then by all means, let it go on. I have been too lazy to keep up on this one, so I wasn't sure where it was and took the lack of discussion as it being almost over.

There's busyness everywheeerrrreeeeeee...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You'll be getting another wall of text about other stages soon enough. :-P

Or not. I dunno - I'll tell you about it.

With another WALL OF TEXT. :-P

 

[CR4SH]

Solid adv. luigi
Norfair
RC(duh)
CS
PS2
FO
Brinstar

lots of neutrals

Solid snake stages
FD
LM
SV
Pirate ship
PS1

IMHO

 

[skyace89]

Say what? What long posts? I don't see any long posts...



Uhhhhh - false? It's your Snake boards. :-P




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


With another WALL OF TEXT. :-P

uhh im on the luigi boards Atash...lol i was just saying IF any luigi mains would want to do it it would be between you and hippiedude since you two are know for having in-depth analysis...lol

 

[Panix]

Solid adv. luigi
Norfair
RC(duh)
CS
PS2
FO
Brinstar

lots of neutrals

Solid snake stages
FD
LM
SV
Pirate ship
PS1
Yoshi's Island

IMHO

wat? maybe a small advantage but not solid, snakes Tech chase is far to overpowered on this norfair

 

[ICE27]

Guys can we rewrite the D3 matchup. It's talking about how D3 should beat snake not snake beat d3. That summary is ********. It needs to be rewritten in snake's perspective. This doesn't help me at all. Coming from a snake player. D3 is by far the most impossible match up to date for snake that is. He can CG u all the way across the stage. If d3 can perfect frame it expect to be edge guarded everytime. And you cant really camp him if he ignores grenades or uses waddles to block them since waddles r 3 times the size of grenades. Lets talk and work out a stratgey from this beast of a matchup

 

[CR4SH]

wat? maybe a small advantage but not solid, snakes Tech chase is far to overpowered on this norfair

Why should I pay any attention to someone who thinks snake's neutral air is better than luigi's?

 

[Atash]

uhh im on the luigi boards Atash...lol i was just saying IF any luigi mains would want to do it it would be between you and hippiedude since you two are know for having in-depth analysis...lol

I know - I can see your avatar/profile-picture, it isn't invisible. :-P I probably should have worded that sentence a little differently. >_< It was meant more to dissuade them from asking.

@ cr4sh
Dude - where's your spirit? Wall-of-text, man, wall-of-text! Make them suffer through your opinion! >_< lawls.

@ Panix vs. cr4sh
Didn't we already dispute this...? Well - okay, we never finished disputing it... But I'd have to agree with Panix - if it's an advantage (which, I have to say from my standpoint - it is), it isn't truly a 'solid' one. Snake may no longer have absolute grenade campiness in his favor, but he still can control single platforms while displaced via grabs. It's a distinct advantage for Luigi (Luigi still has his mobility and aerial superiority coming from underneath Snake and performing various shenanigans), but the accentuated power of Snake's tech-chases provides some balancing. Advantage, but I wouldn't say 'solid'. Is there any way we can classify it as a transition state between solid and liquid phases? Lawls.

@ He who yells SHORYUUKEN!!! (cr4sh)
I wouldn't put Castle Siege as a solid advantage for Luigi either - more of a gooey advantage. Something with the consistency of molasses on a cold winter morning (I had to use that phrase - sorry, it's been stuck in my head a long time). That third transformation of the stage, the dungeon, is too much like Smashville...

What's your rationale for differentiating between Pokemon Stadium 1 and Pokemon Stadium 2? I realize that PS2 has more shenanigans (and shenanigans favor Luigi in this match-up :-D ) - but what effect do they really have in your opinion?

EDIT:

Why should I pay any attention to someone who thinks snake's neutral air is better than luigi's?

Why the hate, man? Peace and love, man, peace and love...

EDIT EDIT:
Wow - I really love that word, 'shenanigans'. Shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans (it's such a hard word to type quickly too...).

 

[hippiedude92]

well i just played biglou whose like next best luigi player.. played him on wifi.. he used randoms.. he used snake... he didn't even nade camp or anything.. just front on melee.. after getting ***** by Nair a ton of times... seemly I can't DI or i just suck in general srsly... snake's nair is like over 9000 haxs 90-10 in snake's favor for nair .. lol...

/rant its cuz i got ***** by it just recently :[

 

[CR4SH]

1. There's no hate to be found here man. Only reasoning to ignore someone lol.

2. Norfair for a couple reasons. The most important being (not the one you think) lava. Not that it saves you from being gimped, though thats helpful, but that it, at times in the match, FORCES close combat. And whether or not snake has goofy grab business, he's at a severe disadvantage when he isn't able to retreat. The second most important part is that it actually allows luigi to play stage control. As long as he's on a lower platform, luigi has major advantage (see uair). And since stage is forced to play luigi's game here, he's at a disadvantage.

3. @ ps2, shennanigans is the name of the game boys. The electric and wind portions are MAJOR luigi advantages.

 

[hippiedude92]

you also forget the ice. srsly goes well with the low traction man. ^^ just adding .

also on norfair, it's fun to plank lol.

 

[Atash]

1. There's no hate to be found here man. Only reasoning to ignore someone lol.

2. Norfair for a couple reasons. The most important being (not the one you think) lava. Not that it saves you from being gimped, though thats helpful, but that it, at times in the match, FORCES close combat. And whether or not snake has goofy grab business, he's at a severe disadvantage when he isn't able to retreat. The second most important part is that it actually allows luigi to play stage control. As long as he's on a lower platform, luigi has major advantage (see uair). And since stage is forced to play luigi's game here, he's at a disadvantage.

3. @ ps2, shennanigans is the name of the game boys. The electric and wind portions are MAJOR luigi advantages.

Actually - I was thinking 'Lava' the whole time (anything to displace the camper, jah?). My one problem with it is that the Lava doesn't come in every three seconds, which still allows Snake some gain with his grab game on the platforms. However, from what you've said so far, I guess it's a minor step to then assume that such a gain is negligible in the face of a greater cramp in his style. Or is it? I still wouldn't place it as being 'solid', 'solid' is way too strong a word for me. How about 'like a glove'? 'With bricks inside'?

Random: Solid reminds me of bose-einstein condensate... and that stuff is solid (arguably a different phase - but I don't care!).

Random: The electric transformation in PS2 is... really random. I still wonder how people can grab the ledge in that transformation - I mean, seriously! IT'S A FRIGGIN' CONVEYOR BELT!

Regarding point 3: Hence why I wish we could bring in 75m as a legal stage for this battle - it'd be so cheap >_< Until Snake got to the far right - then it'd be even cheaper (jump through platforms with almost zero chance of punishment). :-D

Although I could think of the answers to the following, I'd rather force you to answer them cuz' you're more experienced :-P.
Why does Pirate Ship go to Snake?
Why does Luigi's Mansion go to Snake?
What about Port Town Aero Dive (whenever it's a valid counterpick, that is) - solid Luigi advantage, yes? (Shenanigans that CAN KILL YOU IF YOU DON'T JUMP!!!)
You didn't classify Lylat Cruise (this is actually one that I mentioned on one of my earlier posts but didn't analyze because I couldn't think of any). Would that be a neutral? I'm of the opinion that it could well go to Snake...

And with that - I'm off for today. Salute!

EDIT:
Ooh, almost forgot.

Regarding #1: I mean, c'mon cr4sh - the least you could do is give patronizing egregious incertitude (had to use those words :-P) to his point through rational means... (which you've just technically done - so why I'm editing this post I have no idea anymore - g'night!)

 

[hippiedude92]

snake has advantage on Lm. I play Monk's snake who seconds him in FL. Snake can keep on a lockdown on Lm. He can place Landmines and C4s on the pillars and it's hard to notice. Even if you break the whole mansion, snake can just run away or camp his way until the mansion is built and reset the situation.

It's even worst if you can't tech AT ALL. Monk goes undefeated with snake on luigi's mansion IIRC. Again mostly because he can play with the pillars to his advantage and the fact that he lives forever there and fireball approachs are a no no. 55/45 snake's favor there. hands down. All from experience babe.

 

[Panix]

1. There's no hate to be found here man. Only reasoning to ignore someone lol.

Alright let me get something straight.

When people come to boards and I say "this move is better then this move" I'm not saying that 100% know fact it's true. It's called debating, alright? If I think something has more uses then something else I will argue the fact that it's true, no need to get butthurt about it.

 

[CR4SH]

OK, that response indicates to me that I wasn't terribly clear. I did not intend to insult you with the post I made, I meant to direct discussion away from your point. It's clear to me now that I did it all wrong, ended up making you think I'm a *******, and focused discussion on the point. My fault.

Now to clarify my meaning. Luigi's nair is easily his best move, and probably the best nair in the game (MK's being the debatable point, ROB to a lesser extent). Your comment on luigi's nair was to suggest that snake's was better. The suggestion an experienced player would have made is to point out X or Y move that snake has to deal with luigi's nair, since nair is essencially the core of luigi's entire game. This suggested to me that you have little to no understanding of the matchup being discussed, and therefore are not worth listening to.

That said, there's nothing wrong with that. Overlooking luigi is not a crime, and won't really hurt your progress in competitive smash. He's not a good character (with respect to a game that focuses on top tiers), you just don't understand him. That's all.

 

[Lawlmahbawls]

snake has advantage on Lm. I play Monk's snake who seconds him in FL. Snake can keep on a lockdown on Lm. He can place Landmines and C4s on the pillars and it's hard to notice. Even if you break the whole mansion, snake can just run away or camp his way until the mansion is built and reset the situation.

It's even worst if you can't tech AT ALL. Monk goes undefeated with snake on luigi's mansion IIRC. Again mostly because he can play with the pillars to his advantage and the fact that he lives forever there and fireball approachs are a no no. 55/45 snake's favor there. hands down. All from experience babe.

By that argument then the advantage would be more around 60/40 Snake's favor.

 

[BigLøu]

Seriously though.. all luigi has to do is get snake in the air, and from there you just read their air dodges and punish them accordingly. As snake starts to land in front of you (assmuning their at over 60 damage) you can up b them as they land.
At my next few tournies, I'm going to play as many snakes as possible and prove the matchup is in luigis favor. (If even slightly)

 

[hippiedude92]

Seriously though.. all luigi has to do is get snake in the air, and from there you just read their air dodges and punish them accordingly. As snake starts to land in front of you (assmuning their at over 60 damage) you can up b them as they land.
At my next few tournies, I'm going to play as many snakes as possible and prove the matchup is in luigis favor. (If even slightly)

you ***** me with snake's nair on wifi last night i hate u lol

 

[BigLøu]

you ***** me with snake's nair on wifi last night i hate u lol

Yea I use snakes nair against luigi a lot because it's probably snakes best move against luigi. I also know how to fight luigis well so that helped in our games. Snake has to change the way he plays to deal with luigi. Lagless nairs help a lot in the matchup. ( the double jump nair thing). Much <3's though