This is dead, look for the new matchup thread. Be sure to read the rules.

[Teaddiction]

I have lots of problems with grab spamers, like Falco, D3 and even Ike, plz help!

 

[Azgner]

The guy over here gave me an idea:
Can we do IC? Or marth, for that matter, even if he is not a grab spammer

 

[napZzz]

Err marth is easy for snake if you hasn't figured it out yet o_o

Its actually one of two BAD match ups for him...

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Snake has the advantage over Marth, but he can surprise you if you aren't prepared for his air game.
As for Dedede, be careful when trying to recover. He can Dededecide or use swallow to spit you out and put you at a hideous angle or distance away from the edge of the stage. He can also use his CG to set you up to get inhaled. He also has deceptively great grab range.

 

[Shady Penguin]

Snake has the advantage on Marth, but not by much.

Marth's air game ***** his, but the difference in KOing is what seals the deal in Snake's favor.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Shady Penguin's got it right. At higher levels of play, Snake beats Marth but barely. It's like, 55-45 in Snake's favor.

Marth rivals Snake's spacing game. Although Snake wins in spacing it's by very little. Snake can't stay in his shield all day for fear of Dancing Blade and or Shieldbreaker. Snake's projectiles, amazing kill power, and ability to live long are what helps him win this match. Snake as a character is so good, it's really what helps him barely win this match. In terms of matchup statistics though, Marth can pressure Snake so well in the air. His versatility and mixup game put the hurt on Snake's limited ground game. Fair camping is tough for Snake to get around, when Marth's swinging that sword right in your face. Mainly though, Marth does well vs Snake due to aerial pressure. Snake's best bet is to pull grenades when he's in the air, and even then a well spaced sword attack won't blow the grenade up.

 

[Azgner]

I don't have no problems at all with marth, I just said that because I think it is an interesting match-up, and that, eventually, we are going to cover every char, arent we?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

An unusually effective anti-Snake strategy for D3 is to use the inhale near the edge (while you're both on the stage), then turn around and spit Snake over the edge. Follow up with plenty of Bairs and Snake can take massive amounts of damage before you even realize it.

Note that there are time where he will not spit you out and Dededecide. This may occur if he has extremely high damage and/or a stock advantage.

Avoid Final Destination and Rainbow Cruise for this Matchup. Norfair seems to be a good CP to stop Chain Grabbing.

 

[Shady Penguin]

Are we moving on to another character or what? We're one of the slowest boards, yet we handle such a big character on the tourney scene.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Ok, we are supposed to be on DDD. Here is my view on fighting him. Don't fight with tilts but with explosives and grabs. Ok DDD chain grab absolutely ***** Snake. The only way out of it is side stepping or grenading and thats only if they miss for a little bit which isnt very hard. Grenades can help but when they throw waddle dees, it stops your grenades in place and gets you nowhere. This means its time to stop. Wait for him to anaylize what he will do. Snake dashing is usually good here but be aware that the DDD will throw more waddle dees to stop you. Switch back to your grenades.

When you do snake dash, you should be close to him or should of hit him. THIS IS WHERE YOU DOWN GRAB. Down grab is your best friend vs ddd. Please anaylize where he will go and ftilt or chain grab. Be careful of how you ftilt. If your knee is blocked, ROLL AWAY. He will just chain grab you to death again and again. Same with your nuetral jab. Have mines placed everywhere with your c4 to make sure he watches his step and where you are at. If you feel really pressured, grab and fthrow him off the edge and upsmash edgeguard and do NOT let him back on and rack up damage. Save tilts for kill moves...especially uptilt. DDD wont die lol. COOK GRENADES!!!!! PRESSURE WITH C4 AND MINES!!!! When they are recovering trap them with explosvies and airs, usually nair for damage and knock back. Edgeguard as best as possible. After you rack up damage and kill them, you should feel more confident and they will feel the need to chain grab to catch up. EXPLOIT THIS! Exploiting this shows their patterns and weaknesses. Make sure you side step when needed and ftilt or jump away or grab. They will be on the move and have to be careful with you or your explosions. Exploiting there hesistation should help you win the game.

When chain grabbed off the edge, the DDD will do two things: Wait for you to immedietly cypher and gimp or wait for you to come back to edge and re-grab. I would actually get chain grabbed and simply jump to the ledge to confuse them. Make sure you mix it up though. C4 recover yourself and make sure if you feel your going to get chain grabbed that your c4 isnt out. Just make sure you watch your edge game as well and don't get gimped!!!!

Control the stage, your and his movement, and exploit their mistakes/patterns for your victory. This battle will not be easy though so don't take it as a walk in the park.

Btw im new to this board so HI! =D. I really hate DDD tho >=(

Hope to see ya'll around more.

~Razer/Mexico

 

[Ken Neth]

Are we moving on to another character or what? We're one of the slowest boards, yet we handle such a big character on the tourney scene.

That's mostly my fault. School has been killing me these last two weeks. I've barely had any free time to do anything, even sleep lol. It should be easing up in the next few days though, and then I'll write the DDD matchup. Pretty much everything has been covered, except we need to decide on what the ratio is. I'd say it's 60-40 in DDD's favor. Anyone else feel differently?

Since the DDD matchup is pretty much finished, who should we discuss next? We could do marth, since we've already kind of started discussing him, or someone else. Doesn't really matter to me.

 

[UltimateRazer]

That's mostly my fault. School has been killing me these last two weeks. I've barely had any free time to do anything, even sleep lol. It should be easing up in the next few days though, and then I'll write the DDD matchup. Pretty much everything has been covered, except we need to decide on what the ratio is. I'd say it's 60-40 in DDD's favor. Anyone else feel differently?

Since the DDD matchup is pretty much finished, who should we discuss next? We could do marth, since we've already kind of started discussing him, or someone else. Doesn't really matter to me.

I think my post covered most of it XD I would say 65:35 in favor of DDD though because of that ugly chain grab and gimp. Maybe we could do marth? I think you guys should re-anaylze wario though. There are some nasty warios out there that can loop around snake and punish D:

 

[DMG]

I think you guys should re-anaylze wario though. There are some nasty warios out there that can loop around snake and punish D:

I know what player you are talking about. :D

As far as that matchup goes (Wario vs Snake), it is fairly even depending on how long Snake can stay on the ground.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

yeah i think the wario game has changed alot since the one here was written

 

[Shady Penguin]

I think the ratio should be 65-35 or 70-30 Dedede. 60-40 sounds a bit light considering this is pretty much Snake's worst match-up.

Wario and Marth both sound like good ideas. I'm pretty sure Marth is widely agreed to be slightly disadvantaged, but Wario seems like he could go anyway in the match-up.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I know what player you are talking about. :D

As far as that matchup goes (Wario vs Snake), it is fairly even depending on how long Snake can stay on the ground.

Maybe...=D

 

[Azgner]

But can't you use an u-tilt to kill wario as he is released from a grab?

 

[StoleUrCar]

But can't you use an u-tilt to kill wario as he is released from a grab?

Yes...as it says in the guide.

I'm actually surprised how much of the Wario match write-up is still relevant to todays metagame. Warios still double jump to mix up aerial approaches and get inside their opponent. Bite is still a potent move and a very useful finish after aerials. The only thing the current write up lacks is possibly the dthrow predicting game that Wario has and also the dair->dair->bite combo but that's kind of trivial.

...anyway back to D3, I think its 60:40 D3 favor. I have never faced a good enough Dedede to consider 70:30 unfortunately.

 

[CO18]

Uhh all of you who think its anything more than 60:40 is wrong, having a chaingrab doesnt make it 65:35, he can cg most of the cast and most of his matchups arent 65:35 in his adv and snake just has more options.

Key to beating DDD: Nades and more nades. You just have to learn the matchup but nade camping can really **** ddd.
Instantly double jump and up+b over DDD once he gets you off the stage and it becomes much more difficult for him to edgeguard you.

Snake can actually edgeguard Dedede Well if Dedede is out of jumps.

Lookup Ally vs percon if you want to see how to play agaist ddd(best snake and ddd in canada)

Ill go into more detail later about the matchup etc.

still imo its either 55/45 or 60/40 for ddd's favor. but DEFINITLEY not anything more

 

[UltimateRazer]

Uhh all of you who think its anything more than 60:40 is wrong, having a chaingrab doesnt make it 65:35, he can cg most of the cast and most of his matchups arent 65:35 in his adv and snake just has more options.

Key to beating DDD: Nades and more nades. You just have to learn the matchup but nade camping can really **** ddd.
Instantly double jump and up+b over DDD once he gets you off the stage and it becomes much more difficult for him to edgeguard you.

Snake can actually edgeguard Dedede Well if Dedede is out of jumps.

Lookup Ally vs percon if you want to see how to play agaist ddd(best snake and ddd in canada)

Ill go into more detail later about the matchup etc.

still imo its either 55/45 or 60/40 for ddd's favor. but DEFINITLEY not anything more

lol if i want to see a good ddd vs snake video i would look at the videos : Sebrik vs LambChops in Flordia...now those were some good matches...

 

[Hot_ArmS]

yeah dont listen to co18 i beat him lololol

jokes

 

[CO18]

yeah dont listen to co18 i beat him lololol

jokes

lol tight.

Seibrik vs chops is good since they both know each other really well.

Chopz just beat seibrik there most recent set

why? cuz of nades lol

But ally still knows the matchup better imo and he ***** face and knows what to do vs him

i also feel chops gets trapped in seibriks setups too much

 

[UltimateRazer]

lol tight.

Seibrik vs chops is good since they both know each other really well.

Chopz just beat seibrik there most recent set

why? cuz of nades lol

But ally still knows the matchup better imo and he ***** face and knows what to do vs him

i also feel chops gets trapped in seibriks setups too much

Seibrik>>percon lol. Chops is my favorite snake so far. Of course you need nades. Read my post on how to defeat ddd lol.

 

[CO18]

Seibrik>>percon lol. Chops is my favorite snake so far. Of course you need nades. Read my post on how to defeat ddd lol.

You can't really say that considering they dont live anywhere near each other. I could easily say Ally is much better than chopz but i cant know " for sure"

 

[UltimateRazer]

You can't really say that considering they dont live anywhere near each other. I could easily say Ally is much better than chopz but i cant know " for sure"

m2k and dsf live on other side of the country and we know m2k is better.

 

[DMG]

Guys less arguing over players and more debating how bad Dedede beats you. :/

 

[CO18]

m2k and dsf live on other side of the country and we know m2k is better.

Yes and M2k and DSF have been to TWO tourneys together both where m2k placed higher so you're actually right.

Anywayz ive played seibrik and maybe if percon comes down here again ill play him.

 

[StoleUrCar]

This is a matchup discussion of characters, not players. Take your debate elsewhere.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

was at a tourney last night, lost to anther in winners and to joshu (ddd) in losers

three things i found out

-definitely dont play aggressive against ddd
-if the ddd is a stock up never try to edgeguard it with an aerial, youd get dddcided =/
-if youre gonna play brinstar as a cp, you better know how to play the stage lol

 

[StoleUrCar]

omg this got stickied!

come on guys all the more reason to get to updating ..*sigh*

 

[Ken Neth]

OK, I'm going to start writing the DDD matchup right now. Sorry it's taken me so long. School these past two weeks has been super crazy.

It looks like we've already got some discussion on Marth already, so let's discuss him now.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

was at a tourney last night, lost to anther in winners and to joshu (ddd) in losers

three things i found out

-definitely dont play aggressive against ddd
-if the ddd is a stock up never try to edgeguard it with an aerial, youd get dddcided =/
-if youre gonna play brinstar as a cp, you better know how to play the stage lol

I was at the same tourney last night, and I lost to anther twice, but its been closer than ever before. I'm taking him down to his last stock now :D

And also, I've been thinking about the DDD matchup for quite some time now, and its really not that bad for Snake. I beat Joshu 3-0, and I'm pretty sure I will start beating Lain's DDD more consistently soon. I may do a bit of a write up later about it, but suffice to say that Snake can make DDD run to him. When DDD runs to you, he generally has three main choices: a) grabbing, b) shielding, c) rolling behind you. Once you figure out how to predict and punish those 3 things, the matchup gets pretty close.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

yes, please make a write up panda

i wish i couldve stayed to watch you play joshu, i need the matchup knowledge hes the first good ddd ive played =/

 

[Shady Penguin]

I was at the same tourney last night, and I lost to anther twice, but its been closer than ever before. I'm taking him down to his last stock now :D

And also, I've been thinking about the DDD matchup for quite some time now, and its really not that bad for Snake. I beat Joshu 3-0, and I'm pretty sure I will start beating Lain's DDD more consistently soon. I may do a bit of a write up later about it, but suffice to say that Snake can make DDD run to him. When DDD runs to you, he generally has three main choices: a) grabbing, b) shielding, c) rolling behind you. Once you figure out how to predict and punish those 3 things, the matchup gets pretty close.

What about spotdodges and f-tilts?

 

[MorphedChaos]

I was at the same tourney last night, and I lost to anther twice, but its been closer than ever before. I'm taking him down to his last stock now :D

And also, I've been thinking about the DDD matchup for quite some time now, and its really not that bad for Snake. I beat Joshu 3-0, and I'm pretty sure I will start beating Lain's DDD more consistently soon. I may do a bit of a write up later about it, but suffice to say that Snake can make DDD run to him. When DDD runs to you, he generally has three main choices: a) grabbing, b) shielding, c) rolling behind you. Once you figure out how to predict and punish those 3 things, the matchup gets pretty close.

QFT, I'm picking up Snake as another secondary as I refuse to use MK, and yes, D3 on the defensive vs snake means snake has a huge uphill battle, but D3 on the offensive... Really cuts down his game. Not to mention about the CG, if they mess up by 1 frame, you can get out of it with a nade. as for D3's recovery, Throw a Gnade at his feet, it'll blow up in his face. Then rinse and repeat.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Thanks for this, such a big help.

 

[UltimateRazer]

I forgot to mention. Stages that are bad - FD and Delfino.

Final Desination gives them mobility for chain grabs and Delfino they can do they horrible walk off...SO AVOID IT!

Battlefield and Lylat are good vs them though.

 

[Snowstalker]

Hey guys, we're discussing Snake in the new Yoshi thread. Please input your thoughts.

 

[Magik0722]

The main thing i found to be the deciding factor in the dedede matchup is how well you land when knocked of the stage. If your grounded more often you tend to win more often. To help land some wave bounced nades help out. Planting nades on platforms above the ground also help by making dedede grab them while doing aerials. Add nade stripping also to that. I camp alot more in this matchup then in others.

 

[The Milk Monster]

We need a diagram!