The Unofficial Offical MLG Ruleset Discussion

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

NJ/NY played a tournament using the MLG rules here's one of the matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4

 

[Judo777]

NJ/NY played a tournament using the MLG rules here's one of the matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4

Just so you know the lava on that stage isnt random. except for the huge lava wave which btw you should never get hit by i dont think they can give u any more warning about that part. Also as they said ADHD lost his second stock cause he killed himself Atomske just killed him quicker. That stage really isnt that random.

 

[MarKO X]

Metaknight League Gaming.
lol

in the following video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NWH82em64&feature=related), they said that the MLG stage list caters to MK.
lol

 

[Ussi]

How is anything not in favor to MK? Its more these stages MK will **** even harder.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Just so you know the lava on that stage isnt random. except for the huge lava wave which btw you should never get hit by i dont think they can give u any more warning about that part. Also as they said ADHD lost his second stock cause he killed himself Atomske just killed him quicker. That stage really isnt that random.

????? What's the pattern of the lava? Also just because you shouldn't get hit by the lava doesn't mean you won't. But go ahead continue with your defense of this garbage stage list.

@Marko that's true as hell it's stoopid lol. metaknight league gaming.

 

[Luigi player]

Hey i just did some testing and as u said its not an infinite however Both charizard and squirtle can regrab without moving as far as the analog stick goes. Charizard moves fwd every grab as his grab animation and squirtle mighth also. However both grabs can be done without moving the analog so maybe you could say all infinites that dont require analog induced displacement or something like that. idk im just trying to throw out ideas. This ofc refers to typical conditions of gameplay cause of stupid stuff liek grab release into lava wall regrab wouldnt count lol

Squirtle can't always regrab Ness without walking.

 

[MarKO X]

is it that the stage list caters to MK, or is it that the stage list has stages that were removed because of MK?

lol frame of reference.

besides, if you beat a MK first match, MK cp you to any of the "catered MK" stages, you can always take him to Green Greens, which is supposedly this good stage to take MK to.

 

[MK26]

NJ/NY played a tournament using the MLG rules here's one of the matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4

what can you say besides 'attempting to attack during the lava wave most certainly did not pay off'? That was simply a smart cp on atomsk's part - he knew the stage better than adhd (but still nearly lost)

 

[Judo777]

Squirtle can't always regrab Ness without walking.

I know but it would be safe to make the rule to where if it is possible at all it wouldnt be legal.

@almost ledgendary i have been testing and i believe that there is a set pattern for most of what happens on norfair i believe the only thing that is completely random is the lava wave (which btw you shouldnt get hit with it gives u 5 seconds of warning.) I want to do more testing before i say what i think the pattern is but the only main thing is that it is random whether norfair picks plumes or the lava wall but you still know when they are coming.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Wow....learn to play on the stage. They literally ran directly into hazards! The best example is how ADHD died on his last stock. This is exactly what I've been saying: players would rather just attack and attack instead of actually reading what is happening on the stage and adapting their moves accordingly. Can't believe ADHD threw out a fair at the moment the lava's hitbox appeared from behind.
At 30 - ADHD should not have sat in his shield when the lava was clearly rising
At 34 - ADHD should not have gone to that lower platform, if you play the stage you know that it is not safe (even though it looks like it is)
At 45 - ADHD should not have plucked nanas into a lava wall leaving himself completely defenseless
At 50 - Atomsk made a good decision by landing on the top platform and not the middle - a scenario ADHD incorrectly executed at 34
At 1:00 - ADHD should have just charged barrels.
At 1:02 - Atomsk should have not run directly in the path of a lava stream
At 1:25 - ADHD shoud have U-thrown MK into up-b, then up-b, then up-b , HOW DID HE NOT KNOW THIS! Instead he let MK live outside while he was trapped inside, BIG NO NO. If you play the stage you would know that you want to bait the opponent inside for a big combo...or you do not want to be inside at all.
At 2:05 - ADHD clearly airdodges through the grab area of the stage (and atomsk is also edge hogging). He had also accidentally side-B kicked so he could not up-B. This would have killed him on ANY stage, yet the announcers blamed it on Norfair. At least ADHD (or maybe a crowd member?) apparently corrected them and pointed out he lost his jump.
At 2:39 - ADHD should have landed main platform or left mid plat and u-thrown bananas, forcing MK to cross the path because of the encroaching lava. Instead ADHD ran TOWARD MK who was near the lava and it was simply a matter of hitting him into it. So yes, atomsk actually "did read the lava" by simply waiting for ADHD to come to him he could combo him into the lava. Atomsk punished ADHD's mistakes.
At 3:32 - ADHD instead of sitting in his shield or air dodging GOES FOR A LAGGY MOVE RIGHT WHEN HE NEEDED TO BE INVINCBLE.

Atomsk did not make many mistakes, and yet even with ALL of ADHD's mistakes the game was still close. Hmm...overpowered for MK? I think not.

Better vids of Norfair (not mistake free but way less mistakes then match match on Diddy's front):
Chudat (Kirby) vs AZ (Chu kicks my *** - he is very good on Norfair and knows the stage very well)
Esoj (MK) vs AZ - MK!!!
Meep (Ice Climbers) vs AZ - probably my most mistake free match here
Snakeee (ZSS) vs az - Norfair use to be one of his staple counterpick stages. You'll see me play the stage almost perfectly here.

Notice how I rarely ever get hit by the lava...except vs ChuDat because he used the stage against me, which is exactly what you are suppose to do!

Also: AlphaZealot vs D1 (the announcer)

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

is it that the stage list caters to MK, or is it that the stage list has stages that were removed because of MK?

lol frame of reference.

besides, if you beat a MK first match, MK cp you to any of the "catered MK" stages, you can always take him to Green Greens, which is supposedly this good stage to take MK to.

Something about getting Shuttle looped on Green Greens scares me. Anyhow I don't think there's a reasonable CP stage for MK especially not with this list and I find it hard to believe that MK will drop the first set.

@judo it shouldn't be too hard to find a pattern on Norfair. Just stand there for 8 minutes and write the lava patterns.

 

[joeysmash]

Wow....learn to play on the stage. They literally ran directly into hazards! The best example is how ADHD died on his last stock. This is exactly what I've been saying: players would rather just attack and attack instead of actually reading what is happening on the stage and adapting their moves accordingly. Can't believe ADHD threw out a fair at the moment the lava's hitbox appeared from behind.
At 30 - ADHD should not have sat in his shield when the lava was clearly rising
At 34 - ADHD should not have gone to that lower platform, if you play the stage you know that it is not safe (even though it looks like it is)
At 45 - ADHD should not have plucked nanas into a lava wall leaving himself completely defenseless
At 50 - Atomsk made a good decision by landing on the top platform and not the middle - a scenario ADHD incorrectly executed at 34
At 1:00 - ADHD should have just charged barrels.
At 1:02 - Atomsk should have not run directly in the path of a lava stream
At 1:25 - ADHD shoud have U-thrown MK into up-b, then up-b, then up-b , HOW DID HE NOT KNOW THIS! Instead he let MK live outside while he was trapped inside, BIG NO NO. If you play the stage you would know that you want to bait the opponent inside for a big combo...or you do not want to be inside at all.
At 2:05 - ADHD clearly airdodges through the grab area of the stage (and atomsk is also edge hogging). He had also accidentally side-B kicked so he could not up-B. This would have killed him on ANY stage, yet the announcers blamed it on Norfair. At least ADHD (or maybe a crowd member?) apparently corrected them and pointed out he lost his jump.
At 2:39 - ADHD should have landed main platform or left mid plat and u-thrown bananas, forcing MK to cross the path because of the encroaching lava. Instead ADHD ran TOWARD MK who was near the lava and it was simply a matter of hitting him into it. So yes, atomsk actually "did read the lava" by simply waiting for ADHD to come to him he could combo him into the lava. Atomsk punished ADHD's mistakes.
At 3:32 - ADHD instead of sitting in his shield or air dodging GOES FOR A LAGGY MOVE RIGHT WHEN HE NEEDED TO BE INVINCBLE.

Atomsk did not make many mistakes, and yet even with ALL of ADHD's mistakes the game was still close. Hmm...overpowered for MK? I think not.

I just watched it to and saw most the things you pointed out. i sorta was like "wha-what? he really just did that?" I mean, I know the lava is a tad bit of random element and can understand some peoples disdain for it, but at the same time after watching this video much of the "crap" that happened could have EASILY been avoided.

 

[Judo777]

Something about getting Shuttle looped on Green Greens scares me. Anyhow I don't think there's a reasonable CP stage for MK especially not with this list and I find it hard to believe that MK will drop the first set.

@judo it shouldn't be too hard to find a pattern on Norfair. Just stand there for 8 minutes and write the lava patterns.

Its not so much that everything is set (although i do believe the rising and falling lava is completely set pattern) But i think its something like at close to every 30 second interval either plumes or the lava wall on the side will show signs that its about to happen if neither happen then nothing will happen until the next 30 second interval something like that. However the one random element aka the lava wave can also throw off the intervals by a little setting every interval back like 10 seconds. Its hard to tell but thats the just of what i noticed after watching about 5 8min matches.

 

[T-block]

It didn't make any sense to bring up that Norfair vid. I could show a vid where one player dies 3 times to FD's lip, but it'd be silly to argue to ban FD because of that.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Its not so much that everything is set (although i do believe the rising and falling lava is completely set pattern) But i think its something like at close to every 30 second interval either plumes or the lava wall on the side will show signs that its about to happen if neither happen then nothing will happen until the next 30 second interval something like that. However the one random element aka the lava wave can also throw off the intervals by a little setting every interval back like 10 seconds. Its hard to tell but thats the just of what i noticed after watching about 5 8min matches.

What about the single wave that just comes out you seemingly randomly?

@ AZ I really don't get it. In your vids you're constantly get hit by the lava. meep was clearly getting ***** by the stage and so was the EsoJ do whoever he is. Even you were getting hit by the lava and you claim to be playing perfectly on the stagE? LoL @ you beating esoj because of the lava wave. Also what's the point of you showing us a vid against d1 on final d? The chuy vid yeah....you took more damage from the lava on your first stock and WTF was that lava stage bounce non sense....

 

[AlphaZealot]

Could you point out specific areas where the lava hit me and it was NOT a mistake I made/could avoid?

You do realize that an opponent hitting someone into lava is not the stages fault, right?

 

[Judo777]

What about the single wave that just comes out you seemingly randomly?

@ AZ I really don't get it. In your vids you're constantly get hit by the lava. meep was clearly getting ***** by the stage and so was the EsoJ do whoever he is. Even you were getting hit by the lava and you claim to be playing perfectly on the stagE? LoL @ you beating esoj because of the lava wave. Also what's the point of you showing us a vid against d1 on final d? The chuy vid yeah....you took more damage from the lava on your first stock and WTF was that lava stage bounce non sense....

you mean the wave on the side of the stage? that 1 comes in the almost 30 sec interval (i say almost cause i dont have a set number) its either that or the plume. Btw you get 10 seconds of warning from the single lava wall that comes out of one of the sides. If u mean the huge lava wave i said that was the only random part but u get tons of warning that cant be missed.

 

[Ussi]

What about the single wave that just comes out you seemingly randomly?

@ AZ I really don't get it. In your vids you're constantly get hit by the lava. meep was clearly getting ***** by the stage and so was the EsoJ do whoever he is. Even you were getting hit by the lava and you claim to be playing perfectly on the stagE? LoL @ you beating esoj because of the lava wave. Also what's the point of you showing us a vid against d1 on final d? The chuy vid yeah....you took more damage from the lava on your first stock and WTF was that lava stage bounce non sense....

When he got hit, it was an error on his part by dodging too early or not fast enough. Or he got greedy and forced himself into that he. Or he was read and forced into the position..


you're point is that stages shouldn't be effecting matches like this, but stages always effect matches no matter what. You always have to adjust to the stage and avoid getting cornered on it. People can get cornered into recovering into the lip of FD from pressure just like people can get cornered into lava.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Could you point out specific areas where the lava hit me and it was NOT a mistake I made/could avoid?

You do realize that an opponent hitting someone into lava is not the stages fault, right?

against meep around 37 seconds.

It is the stages fault for having lava. That not only comes up from the bottom but comes at you from the sides. So I fail to see how you doing an attack then me DI'ing it perfectly then get randomly hit by lava proves your skill. That is luck and something that should not be factored into a match at all.

@judo watch the meep vs AZ vid at around 30 seconds those are the lava waves i'm talking about which seem to appear randomly.

 

[Jack Kieser]

It is the stages fault for having lava.

Hahahahaha! Thank you for that. I literally lol'ed when I read that.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Let's ban halberd because its the stages fault it has a cannon. It can hit you anytime right?Or how about we ban Yoshi island because the helper ghost can turn around a match? Seriously, the lava in norfair CAN be avoided unless u get outplayed or make a mistake. Norfair should remain a counterpick imo.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Let's ban halberd because its the stages fault it has a cannon. It can hit you anytime right? Seriously, the lava in norfair CAN be avoided unless u get outplayed or make a mistake. Norfair should remain a counterpick imo.

Show me one match on nor fair when someone has not been hit by the lava and i'd be more inclined to believe.

 

[ぱみゅ]

If lava/any hazard couldn't hit, what's the point on having those stages as CPs?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Show me one match on nor fair when someone has not been hit by the lava and i'd be more inclined to believe.

Hard to find one, considering the stage has been banned almost everywhere. And just recently has it started seeing more play because of mlg. And besides, if they do get hit, its mostly the player's fault and not the stage's.

 

[Judo777]

against meep around 37 seconds.

It is the stages fault for having lava. That not only comes up from the bottom but comes at you from the sides. So I fail to see how you doing an attack then me DI'ing it perfectly then get randomly hit by lava proves your skill. That is luck and something that should not be factored into a match at all.

@judo watch the meep vs AZ vid at around 30 seconds those are the lava waves i'm talking about which seem to appear randomly.

oh those are the lava plumes and you almost answered ur question yourself. They occured at 30 seconds didnt they? like i said close to 30 second intervals for plumes and the one sided lava walls. the waves are the only thing that appear random. Also the lava floor appears to have a set pattern i cant say the same for brinstar that i know of.

Also Norfair is my favorite CP and i cant tell u the last time i get hit by lava on that stage. I never get hit unless im intentionally taking the hit to kill my opponent or try.

 

[fkacyan]

What I find funniest is that we complain about MK being unbeatable when planking, and then enable Norfair, a stage that allows him to plank and do damage without even touching you, AND give him ten more ledgegrabs.

Bahahahaha.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Hard to find one, considering the stage has been banned almost everywhere. And just recently has it started seeing more play because of mlg. And besides, if they do get hit, its mostly the player's fault and not the stage's.

Well when the person who is saying that the lava is easy to avoid/ teaching people how to play on the stage then get ***** by the lava (Az vs Chuy) I find his claims to be a bit far fetched.

oh those are the lava plumes and you almost answered ur question yourself. They occured at 30 seconds didnt they? like i said close to 30 second intervals for plumes and the one sided lava walls. the waves are the only thing that appear random. Also the lava floor appears to have a set pattern i cant say the same for brinstar that i know of.

Also Norfair is my favorite CP and i cant tell u the last time i get hit by lava on that stage. I never get hit unless im intentionally taking the hit to kill my opponent or try.

Na that's not true at all. I've checked the vids it's random sorry.

 

[Judo777]

Well when the person who is saying that the lava is easy to avoid/ teaching people how to play on the stage then get ***** by the lava (Az vs Chuy) I find his claims to be a bit far fetched.



Na that's not true at all. I've checked the vids it's random sorry.

Check em again cause its not. The events dont necessarily happen at the about 30 second intervals just the signs that let u know they are coming. At 30 seconds first match the screen pans out letting u know that 10 seconds later the lava wall will be coming...... at the first 28 seconds of meep vs AZ you see the lava plumes. Also like i said the lava wave can throw off the timing by like 10 seconds after it happens.

 

[MK26]

NJ/NY played a tournament using the MLG rules here's one of the matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4

Chudat (Kirby) vs AZ (Chu kicks my *** - he is very good on Norfair and knows the stage very well)

people, watch these two games at the same time. i guarantee you brix will be **** during the first minute and a half.

EDIT: And these two, starting at 45 seconds, once again for a minute and a half.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0bGWV9iA4

Esoj (MK) vs AZ - MK!!!

EDITEDIT: seems like any two matches will have a 90-second stretch where their hazards are completely synched...and if these games continued beyond 4 minutes, it'd probably happen a second time

 

[Mota]

people, watch these two games at the same time. i guarantee you brix will be **** during the first minute and a half.

O_O That was equally humorous and sad at the same time. MK Uair **** through the lavaproof shield house aka homeless shelter XD

 

[AlphaZealot]

The lava plumes when they are released will be released with a trajectory focused on where a player was when it was released (don't know how it chooses which player). Me keeping meep within the lava area ensured that he and i would both be hit, and Ice Climbers getting hit desynces them, so guess who has more to gain?

 

[Crow!]

The screen also shakes for a while before the lava spray comes.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The lava plumes when they are released will be released with a trajectory focused on where a player was when it was released (don't know how it chooses which player). Me keeping meep within the lava area ensured that he and i would both be hit, and Ice Climbers getting hit desynces them, so guess who has more to gain?

So instead of it being a mistake now you're claiming that was done of purpose....AZ you're amazing simply brilliant can you teach me how to be like you?

 

[T-block]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I made some claims about Pictochat a few days ago that were actually false.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9941630 contains all the facts about Pictochat that I'm fairly sure are correct.

 

[MarKO X]

just like how you can learn a matchup, you can learn a stage, right?

 

[AlphaZealot]

In that situation: yes. You think it is really that hard? It is very obvious that all factors being equal if we are both hit he loses more since the Ice Climbers are two characters. Another example is if someone is at high damage and you are at low damage (same stock) if you grab them when a plume comes just jab and dthrow right before the plumes hit box arrives. You will both take damage...but they will be dead. There are also a bunch of vids where I intentionally take lava damage from below (on both Norfair and Brinstar) in order to catch the opponent above me off guard with a quick Uair. Again, very obvious stuff to anyone who plays on these types of stages, but to a casual onlooker you would think "OMG THE STAGE!!!". Did you know I also use the lava to RECOVER! Lets say gimps Diddy out of his barrels during recovery. On most stages you fall to low to be able to make it back to the edge. However, on Brinstar if there is lava coming from the sides (or plumes/background but this is very rare) then you can side-B toward the lava, charge barrels and angle it into the lava, then DI upwards and return to the stage or at least get another chance to recover. Obvious.

I'm not saying every time the lava came I got hit intentionally (like at 2:10 I usmash on the middle platform when its clear the lava will engulf the platform, so that was a big mistake - I make this same mistake again at 3:35 as well). But sometimes its better to take damage and make sure the opponent eats damage to, instead of putting yourself in a bad position and dying or eating damage while the opponent remains unscaved. If you actually played on levels like Norfair consistently you would understand this give and take. It requires very quick decision making and is a much more dynamic test of skill then: who can approach someone under a platform or on top of a platform for the 1 billionth time.

Also watch at like 2:43. A lava wall from the background comes and I use the edges to be invincible...while Meep just stands there. You would probably cry foul...even though it was entirely Meeps fault, not the stage, for him dying. He should be able to evade a wall of lava, especially since I wasn't even pressuring him.

 

[1048576]

just like how you can learn a matchup, you can learn a stage, right?

Eh more like how you can learn to use items correctly for some of these.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

ADHD had no clue what to do on the stage.

I'm sorry but if the multiple mistakes and the death at the end wasn't clear indication I don;t know what is.

 

[Kitamerby]

people, watch these two games at the same time. i guarantee you brix will be **** during the first minute and a half.

I **** brix.

Gentlemen, I believe we have an argument.

 

[Raziek]

Norfair is a great stage, barring planking, but people just refuse to learn to play on it. From my knowledge, the lava plumes emerge parallel to your character.... so If you aren't moving, they'll hit you. Seriously...... learn to play the stage. The lava is in no way unfair because it affects both players equally. If you aren't taking advantage of it where you can, that isn't the fault of the stage.

I use this stage as my go-to counterpick with Marth against most characters (except MK), it hasn't let me down in tournament before, because NOBODY knows how to play on it.

Learn to love the lava!\