The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Heartstring]

Notice something? All four of these stages (PS1, PS2, CS, DP) are transforming, moving stages. So why do people claim FD/BF/SV are neutral? (Don't say you weren't counting starters as CS and PS1 are both starters)

european, the mane 5 are the starters here, my bad ^^
thats thats because everything that isnt those 5 are transforming stages of some sort or another (brinstar could perhaps be classed as non tranforming, but a lot of extra random crap happens there

it is a legal stage in my honest opinion, but also in my honest opinion, so is pictochat, brinstar and rainbow cruise. all of which have been debated relentlessly over its legality. i jsut like diversity in stages

 

[Chuee]

Either way, it's a stupid argument because if the japanese aren't willing to adapt to the single most tame counterpick in the history of smash, then they probably suck.

No that just means that the stage isn't legal there so they don't feel like going through the trouble of learning complicated counter pick stages for one tourney. Oh, and PS2 isn't the most tame counter pick in all of smash lol. It's not even the most tame CP in brawl..........
but w/e go ahead and call them bad because they don't use the stage, I mean player skill can clearly be observed by whether or not a player is willing to learn how to play on a stage.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

bpc, im sorry but while you usually say some smart stuff, calling japan bad because they don't use our stages is ******** and you lost some respect points in my book

 

[Kuro~]

prolly too late but. Yes i support.

 

[John12346]

Just doing an informal poll over on AiB, nothing will likely come from it but I'm curious to where support currently lies about banning MK. Check it out by clicking here.

Yes - 180 (74.69%)
No - 61 (25.31%)

Juuust sayin'

 

[Heartstring]

Yes - 180 (74.69%)
No - 61 (25.31%)

Juuust sayin'

is that yes to banning MK or keeping him?

 

[Player-1]

Yes - 180 (74.69%)
No - 61 (25.31%)

Juuust sayin'

and 4 previous polls all voted to ban him to >.>

is that yes to banning MK or keeping him?

ban him

 

[SaveMeJebus]

The way I see it, we have never put limits on MK. When the LGL was created, it was enforced on every character. If MK is broken on stages like Brinstar and Rainbow, then ban these stages. If he is still too dominant after this, ban MK and bring back the stages.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

The way I see it, we have never put limits on MK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36fqFU7hlsc

I didn't know we were still allowed to do this.

 

[Player-1]

Jebus, removing RC and Brinstar isn't a limit on MK...it's a limit on EVERYONE. I wouldn't mind having it so MK can't CP those two stages but everyone else can, but that won't fix the over infestation of MK players we have as most of them use them on neutrals as well.

 

[Life]

I've stopped updating the list out of laziness, sorry. <.<

 

[iFudge]

japan doesnt have mk banned

just remove rc/brinstar already

 

[Jimmyfosho]

wtf does japan have to do with anything

 

[Bizkit047]

Japan doesn't play for money, correct? That immediately means you cannot relate any competitive ruleset to theirs, as they have so much less incentive to play as gay as possible, unlike everywhere else.

 

[Ussi]

Yea they just have to play honorable

 

[Chuee]

Japan doesn't play for money, correct? That immediately means you cannot relate any competitive ruleset to theirs, as they have so much less incentive to play as gay as possible, unlike everywhere else.

lmao no
Japan can play gay as hell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di_i8YcjjEM

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Japan thought Jigglypuff was worse than Ganondorf.

Besides Chuee, it only gets worse if you replace Pit with MK.

 

[Bizkit047]

lmao no
Japan can play gay as hell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di_i8YcjjEM

Which is what "less incentive" means. I didn't say they will never play gas as hell.

 

[Zankoku]

iirc Japan doesn't play for money in any of the fighter games either, but they seem to dominate us pretty well in those. They seem to have plenty of motivation to win a game as winningly as possible, despite no tangible reward for doing so.

 

[stingers]

because they have a good work ethic so they actually practice...how many brawl players in the US do u think actually practice lol

 

[Scatz]

*raises hand*

Do I count?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

*raises hand*

Do I count?

You're a robot, of course you don't count.

 

[DeLux]

Most Ice Climbers players practice or suck really hard from what I understand

 

[SaveMeJebus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36fqFU7hlsc

I didn't know we were still allowed to do this.

That falls under stalling. Instead of having a rule that has all infinites end at 300%, why not just ban the characters with infinites?

 

[John12346]

There is a more blatant limit on MK than IDC ban, which I agree is completely justified.

50 ledge grab limit for everyone. MK has 35 for some reason.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

There is a more blatant limit on MK than IDC ban, which I agree is completely justified.

50 ledge grab limit for everyone. MK has 35 for some reason.

It's because people are stupid. If you ever saw DMG's thread on Planking, You would know that he is only invincible if he perfectly planks. If he does this, is guaranteed to go over the LGL because he can only U-air twice before his invincibility wears out and he has to grab the ledge again. Any other Planking that MK does is no more broken than anyone else's Planking.

 

[John12346]

Actually, you're wrong, MK is vulnerable even if he perfect planks, because the ledge invincibility wears off before he can grab the ledge again. In essence, he's just really retardedly hard to hit while perfect planking.

MK gets a crapload of leniency on planking, because he gets all of the benefits of perfect planking as long as he throws out the first Uair before his ledge invincibility wears off, AKA MK can mistime the ledge drop by up to ~20 frames or so and still be safe.

Planking and perfect planking are beatable. Are we expecting our players to reasonably and consistently beat it?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Actually, you're wrong, MK is vulnerable even if he perfect planks, because the ledge invincibility wears off before he can grab the ledge again. In essence, he's just really retardedly hard to hit while perfect planking.

MK gets a crapload of leniency on planking, because he gets all of the benefits of perfect planking as long as he throws out the first Uair before his ledge invincibility wears off, AKA MK can mistime the ledge drop by up to ~20 frames or so and still be safe.

Planking and perfect planking are beatable. Are we expecting our players to reasonably and consistently beat it?

No but I also don't think that we should make it seem like the only reason we have a ledge grab limit is because of MK. If that were true, then he would be the only one with a ledge grab limit.

 

[John12346]

The LGL was universally implemented for all characters so matches don't become ******** bore-fests, although I admit that is a less than remarkable reasoning for implementation of a rule, and honestly, to a lesser extent, because I think the BRC didn't want to put a LGL on MK alone, because it would scream out "direct nerf!"

Anyway, if MK followed the same reasoning of matches not becoming boring when considering a LGL, like the rest of the cast did, he would have the same LGL as them, too.

He doesn't...

 

[Judo777]

That falls under stalling. Instead of having a rule that has all infinites end at 300%, why not just ban the characters with infinites?

Well......then we would have to ban the whole cast..............almost EVERYONE has infinites given proper circumstances.

 

[Tesh]

Unlike GnW, Pika and Marth (and pit i guess if u SDI uair properly), MK will probably take your stock every time you guess wrong vs planking. Its a very degenerate risk/reward ratio. Its up there with walkoff camping (beyond it really).

 

[infiniteV115]

That falls under stalling. Instead of having a rule that has all infinites end at 300%, why not just ban the characters with infinites?

Because the IDC is completely different than all other infinites. If you're playing against a character that has an infinite, you should be cautious enough to avoid putting yourself into a situation in which the infinite can be performed on you. They can be avoided with correct play from the potential victim. Thus, no reason to ban characters with these infinites.

IDC is possible without your opponent putting themself in a bad position. This technique definitely warrants an MK ban (if it were left legal), but when banned you need a better reason.

 

[John12346]

Yeah, IDC ban is just a limitation on infinites, which is completely justified and independent on what MK's legality should be, for sure. It's not like the blatantly lower LGL where we're directly nerfing MK.

Also, AZ's poll has fallen off the front page of AiB, and has lost a lot of speed, so here are the results:

Yes - 298 (75.44%)
No - 97 (24.56%)

75% community support. I like where this is going.

 

[Ussi]

Thats just AiB wait till you add SWF Only users into it xD

 

[Zankoku]

SWF has historically been ~50/50 split, with a little under 5% advantage towards the ban. Unless roughly half the pro-ban members suddenly became anti-ban since then, I doubt it would affect which side has the favor in votes.

 

[DRDN]

Are you going off of polls or something?

 

[Zankoku]

Yes, the past polls from two or so years ago and older.

 

[John12346]

Keep in mind, though, Ankoku, we've had a lot of people join the ranks of the pro-ban between then and now(Inui, ADHD, and Ally immediately come to mind), plus you can't deny there's been quite an influx of gay stuff we found about MK between the fourth ban poll and now.

When we consider the results of the unofficial AiB polling, plus the aforementioned facts above, I'm willing to bet an official SWF re-vote would shed new light on things, wouldn't you?

 

[Zankoku]

I'm not sure what you're implying, considering what you just said only supports my statement.

 

[Deleted member]

I think he's just implying that the results would be more than just a little bit in favor of the ban.