Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
If anything I think it's time to stop saying the Falco/ZSS match-up is unwinnable since the best ZSS players you know, beat Falco a lot.
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The Top Ten Videos of Each Character
- Thread starter BlueXenon
- Start date
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Well, opinions vary between -2 and -3 or worse. -2 is probably not unwinnable.
I'd call it -1 at this point, I mean ZSS has an abysmal tourney record against Diddy which is listed at -1 lol
I'd call it -1 at this point, I mean ZSS has an abysmal tourney record against Diddy which is listed at -1 lol
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Unwinnable is labeled at -4...
I think -2 as a disadvantage such that if the player using the losing character was considered a top player and the other one wasn't, you could still reliably bet on the top player to win. As in, it would still be considered an upset for the top player to lose.
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable
copy/paste
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable
copy/paste
B!squick
Smash Master
Lol at arbitrary labels. What constitutes a small disadvantage? Or a medium one? Some examples would be nice and I mean more than just listing a match-up.
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Lol at assuming there is an alternative to arbitrary labels.
This subject has been gone over countless times in this thread >_>.
EDIT: Lol nvm, got this confused with the m/u chart thread.
This subject has been gone over countless times in this thread >_>.
EDIT: Lol nvm, got this confused with the m/u chart thread.
Gheb, I'm fairly sure that you're going to say take win/loss records of top level players. The inherent flaw with it is the fact that how can you find 2 players, at top level, that are equally skilled? You're going to be arbitrarily defining players' skill somehow =/
Are you just going to use the best player of each character? What if Speed's style is better vs DDD than X's? Are you still going to use Coney vs X? Are you going to use Speed vs Coney? If that then there is a gap in player skill between Coney and Speed that may- or may not- be there with with Coney vs X. What about M2K vs Big Lou? M2K's player ability is much more noticeable than Big Lou's so that isn't really a good way to decide MK vs Luigi since the player skill's are *roughly* the same.
If I'm wrong, by all means tell me your method instead. But using win/loss records for top players is just as flawed and arbitrary as +/- system. That's not to say it doesn't have its own merits and is a perfectly fine way to do it. However it is just as arbitrary and subjective as any other way.
Are you just going to use the best player of each character? What if Speed's style is better vs DDD than X's? Are you still going to use Coney vs X? Are you going to use Speed vs Coney? If that then there is a gap in player skill between Coney and Speed that may- or may not- be there with with Coney vs X. What about M2K vs Big Lou? M2K's player ability is much more noticeable than Big Lou's so that isn't really a good way to decide MK vs Luigi since the player skill's are *roughly* the same.
If I'm wrong, by all means tell me your method instead. But using win/loss records for top players is just as flawed and arbitrary as +/- system. That's not to say it doesn't have its own merits and is a perfectly fine way to do it. However it is just as arbitrary and subjective as any other way.
Alphicans
Smash Hero
I am very interested to hear this.There is ...
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
For sure. But Nick DID take a set off DEHF (lost one too). Salem probably could have beaten Shadow (had first game in the bag and made a silly mistake, destroyed him game 2, and should have banned battlefield, not to john for him) and incinerated Bleachigo...
Imma continue this in the other thread.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1DGV1wozCQ
lol he doesn't fail the chaingrab even once
lol he doesn't fail the chaingrab even once
SaveMeJebus
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
- Messages
- 4,371
Ban ICs!!!!!!!!!!!!
SaveMeJebus
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
- Messages
- 4,371
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z9CyEvg_BQ i nominate this one
Much better.
SaveMeJebus
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
- Messages
- 4,371
Horrible vid. That Diddy kept air dodging into everything
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Man I wanna play Kyuubi...
So badly...
So badly...
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Patches
Smash Master
Gta has been doing that for a while now. Lol
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
I think he means that the numbers were 6 and 9 = 69Gta has been doing that for a while now. Lol
I'm just saiyan
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Missed the pointGta has been doing that for a while now. Lol
There we go
Patches
Smash Master
Missed that part. I was at work. That's my john
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Why Snake instead of Marth when the Marth won? =p
they both played excellently (I learned a lot from Havok in particular o.o), but I don't see why you'd submit for the loser lol. Submit for both chars in that case =p
they both played excellently (I learned a lot from Havok in particular o.o), but I don't see why you'd submit for the loser lol. Submit for both chars in that case =p
Because that's pretty much the ideal way to use Snake vs Marth. Mike played the MU really well- but not quite as well from the opposite side.
I'm fine with it being up for both- but if someone wants to see how to fight Marth as Snake, that is one of the best representations of the MU for Snake I've ever seen.
I'm fine with it being up for both- but if someone wants to see how to fight Marth as Snake, that is one of the best representations of the MU for Snake I've ever seen.
I'm curious to see where snake will place on the next tier list. Considering recent tourny results and with MK banned I really believe as well as Diddy, Falco, marth, wario, olimar and ice climbers will all be higher if it's done correctly. I really think he's fallen from grace the past few months. I think it has a lot to do with people actually learning to fight him now and exploit the heck out of his terrible recovery.
And snake having no bad matchups against any mid tiers is also bs imo. When top snake players are losing to peach and Ike you know something's up.
With no MK to crush virtually all mid tiers before semis, I think we are going to see a lot more of this happening.
And snake having no bad matchups against any mid tiers is also bs imo. When top snake players are losing to peach and Ike you know something's up.
With no MK to crush virtually all mid tiers before semis, I think we are going to see a lot more of this happening.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
top snakes... losing to peach?
when did this happen?
also, mid tiers randomly beat every character you listed up there.
Like when judos sheik beat logics olimar (then got gayed out by the rules)
It happens all the time to every character, upsets happen, but that doesnt change the status quo.
EDIT
A lot of that down below
VVVV
when did this happen?
also, mid tiers randomly beat every character you listed up there.
Like when judos sheik beat logics olimar (then got gayed out by the rules)
It happens all the time to every character, upsets happen, but that doesnt change the status quo.
EDIT
A lot of that down below
VVVV
Infern lost to nicole...If a Snake loses to Peach ... I kinda have a hard time believing that he's "top level". Like, that's a direct contradiction.
Granted he was playing badly first game and never quite recovered but at the same time he got like top 4th placing at the tourny which I"m sure is more than most can say they've done with snake. So obviously he's not a player to be slept on. Perhaps not the highest level snake but still a high level player.
The matchup isn't in Snake's favor as much as people think though. It just seems that way on paper. But peach absolutely destroys snake once he's in the air and she can really shut down Snake's tilts when she properly spaces them. His only reliable answer to her air approaches is utilt but then it becomes too stale when you need it to kill. Not to mention shield pressure is even worse for snake than most as he spends so much time on the ground (if played properly) and to drop grenades. He needs his shield more than most.
Yes, but when it's happening frequently you can no longer can call it a coincidence. Also, the ike example I forget which snake it was but I"m certain this time it was a top snake that lost to Ike in loser's finals.
My main point is still of course that Snake simply has not been putting in the same work at Tournys for the past few months. Now you see snakes get top 10, sometimes top 5. This isn't good enough to be among the top 2/3 characters in the game.