The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

[BrawlLover]

wow wait didnt i play you and you used DIDDY and OLIMAR and youre calling me gay? hahahaah you arent even good so im not gonna waste my time

hey man, try not to start arguments, just watching out for ya bra

 

[mc4]

I'm just waiting for you guys to ban Snake, because he OWNS!

haha while this is true snake does indeed own he has too many bad matchups for people to complain. Everyone in top tier alone is a bad matchup for snake except g&w which is probably somewhere around 55/45 in snakes favor (i'm just guessing haven't seen the statistic for g&w match up against snake yet)

 

[The Real Inferno]

Personally I like it for 60:40 Snake against G&W. 70:30 Falco over Snake. 55:45 Dedede over Snake. 60:40 ROB over Snake.

 

[Orion*]

Personally I like it for 60:40 Snake against G&W. 70:30 Falco over Snake. 55:45 Dedede over Snake. 60:40 ROB over Snake.

falco is definitely not 70:30
at most 60:40.

noob snakes yeah, just walk up, grab -> do stuff = stock
but note that snake can blow himself up to stop the chain grabs.

yes hes a % disadvantage so falco can camp him but its not like he doesnt have options.
once hes out of chain grab range, falco has a killing problem, and is playing against snake? with even mediocre DI its ridiculous.
on the other hand snake kills us handy.

i personally feel its 55:45 in falcos favor.

============================================================

random comment lulz

GW against snake on neutrals 60:40 sounds right

but on FD i would venture to say 70/30 at least. its ridiculous.

 

[Inui]

70:30 Falco over Snake. 60:40 ROB over Snake.

Wtf? No. Just blow yourself up twice and you can't get CG spiked. After that, Snake ***** Falco in terms of actually fighting and can camp him back easily. Snake, even after blowing himself up twice, will outlive Falco by a large amount. N-air will also **** Falco's recovery. I think Snake has the advantage 55/45.

Why is ROB a Snake counter? I watched G-regulate vs NinjaLink, Snake vs ROB, and it didn't look like a counter at all. I also heard DSF's Snake beat NinjaLink's ROB. ROB can't kill Snake until very high damage and Snake actually outspaces him.

 

[BrawlLover]

goodbye thread, im done talking about this when it's already final

 

[Overswarm]

Ninjalink is a good player, not a good ROB. It's like saying Azen is a good Marth. NEO is a good Marth, Azen is just Azen. NL is good, that's why he cna play multiple characters... but his ROB does a lot of silly stuff.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Why is ROB a Snake counter? I watched G-regulate vs NinjaLink, Snake vs ROB, and it didn't look like a counter at all. I also heard DSF's Snake beat NinjaLink's ROB. ROB can't kill Snake until very high damage and Snake actually outspaces him.

I thought it was the Player that outspaces the sprite on the screen? Unless Snake has innate spacing properties.

...well, there is up-tilt...

Smooth Criminal

 

[Orion*]

Wtf? No. Just blow yourself up twice and you can't get CG spiked. After that, Snake ***** Falco in terms of actually fighting and can camp him back easily. Snake, even after blowing himself up twice, will outlive Falco by a large amount. N-air will also **** Falco's recovery. I think Snake has the advantage 55/45.

its pretty even. lulz, but i havent played a snake thats as good as youres so maybe youre right, but i generally outcamp them.

Why is ROB a Snake counter? I watched G-regulate vs NinjaLink, Snake vs ROB, and it didn't look like a counter at all. I also heard DSF's Snake beat NinjaLink's ROB. ROB can't kill Snake until very high damage and Snake actually outspaces him.

i thought it was slight advantage rob. like 55:45

most of these matchups are so even though, i dont see the point in arguing them

 

[Orion*]

Ninjalink is a good player, not a good ROB. It's like saying Azen is a good Marth. NEO is a good Marth, Azen is just Azen. NL is good, that's why he cna play multiple characters... but his ROB does a lot of silly stuff.

azens marth is sexy lool XD

edit: double post sorry

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

BrawlLover is funny lol

 

[Inui]

Ninjalink is a good player, not a good ROB. It's like saying Azen is a good Marth. NEO is a good Marth, Azen is just Azen. NL is good, that's why he cna play multiple characters... but his ROB does a lot of silly stuff.

Good God you are ignorant sometimes.

His ROB 3-0'd NEO's Marth the other day after 2-0'ing it at C3 the week before and he beat G-regulate's Snake.

NL has done more with ROB recently than anyone else outside of the West Coast ROB mains that do well.

 

[memphischains]

Ninjalink is a good player, not a good ROB. It's like saying Azen is a good Marth. NEO is a good Marth, Azen is just Azen. NL is good, that's why he cna play multiple characters... but his ROB does a lot of silly stuff.

his rob is way better than yours.

without even playing you, results and video comparisons show.

 

[Binx]

I'm sure overswarm knows that, but being good and knowledgeable owns being good by itself, yeah? It's pretty obvious OS was only speak of character matchups not players, M2Ks falcon could probably beat my metaknight, does that mean he is a good captain falcon player, maybe, but maybe its just because he would only need to use grabs and upairs to win because he is better at spacing and predicting than I am, where as a knowledgeable falcon with similar mind games might win by less but actually do something impressive other than just playing smarter.

 

[Inui]

M2Ks falcon could probably beat my metaknight, does that mean he is a good captain falcon player, maybe, but maybe its just because he would only need to use grabs and upairs to win because he is better at spacing and predicting than I am, where as a knowledgeable falcon with similar mind games might win by less but actually do something impressive other than just playing smarter.

Nah, his Captain Falcon is terrible. He is only good with top tiers and Ike and Sheik because he doesn't like Brawl enough to practice low tiers and play other characters in general.

I do see what you mean, though.

 

[da K.I.D.]

his rob is way better than yours.

without even playing you, results and video comparisons show.

OH SNAP SON

you gonna sit there and take that?
he really just blew yo whole spot up
wheres the snappy comeback son?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Nah, his Captain Falcon is terrible. He is only good with top tiers and Ike and Sheik because he doesn't like Brawl enough to practice low tiers and play other characters in general.

I do see what you mean, though.

lol captain failure

 

[NinjaLink]

Wtf? No. Just blow yourself up twice and you can't get CG spiked. After that, Snake ***** Falco in terms of actually fighting and can camp him back easily. Snake, even after blowing himself up twice, will outlive Falco by a large amount. N-air will also **** Falco's recovery. I think Snake has the advantage 55/45.

Why is ROB a Snake counter? I watched G-regulate vs NinjaLink, Snake vs ROB, and it didn't look like a counter at all. I also heard DSF's Snake beat NinjaLink's ROB. ROB can't kill Snake until very high damage and Snake actually outspaces him.

I actually wrecked G-reg at the last bi-weekly i went to. 3-1 in winners finals. When i fought him saturday he played waaaay better. Its in ROBs advantage but the reason for it is stuff i dont like doin to ppl such as camping.

Ninjalink is a good player, not a good ROB. It's like saying Azen is a good Marth. NEO is a good Marth, Azen is just Azen. NL is good, that's why he cna play multiple characters... but his ROB does a lot of silly stuff.

I dont like how ur tryin to put my ROB down. My ROB got me more victories than my other characters. Stop being ignorant about stuff. Inui is right. I 2-0d Neo at C3 and 3-0ed him Saturday. But no, I'm not a good ROB because i dont camp like the rest of u.


Anyway Why are we still discussing this topic if the decision is already made. Its not like we're gonna do another poll anytime soon.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

i won a tourney with MK sunday.

My MK is the worst thing ever.

I knew the SBR wouldn't ban mk. they wouldn't do it if MK was down right broken. Dumb decision, imo.

I'm gunna secondary MK now just to spite this.

 

[Master Raven]

What notable players did you beat at the tourney?

 

[Orion*]

Nah, his Captain Falcon is terrible. He is only good with top tiers and Ike and Sheik because he doesn't like Brawl enough to practice low tiers and play other characters in general.

thats a shame, without trying he could probably advance the metagame far enough so that theres no excuse for **** whiners in the brawl community.

did m2k ever pick up diddy like he said he would.....?
@_@
im scared

i won a tourney with MK sunday.

My MK is the worst thing ever.

I knew the SBR wouldn't ban mk. they wouldn't do it if MK was down right broken. Dumb decision, imo.

I'm gunna secondary MK now just to spite this.

name like. 1 good player you played against with credibility.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

name like. 1 good player you played against with credibility

omniswell

not that hard to win with him

 

[Mew2King]

that's cuz you live in the midwest, winning in the midwest doesn't mean anything. In fact, the state of NJ alone is harder to win in than all of midwest. All they have is vidjo, and he rarely ever plays he's just naturally smart.

 

[lain]

We have Anther, NOJ, Overswarm, Bloodhawk, Tink, and even me.

DSF came down here and barely beat Anther.

No dis to NJ, but the midwest is fuxing amazing.

 

[Mew2King]

i forgot about anther. There's 2 good brawl players in the midwest. No dis to MW.

and it was in reply to that guy's comment saying his wack mk won a tourney. That just means his competition was wack.

edit for the other guy - that's the best guy you can come up with? I never even heard of that guy. My stance stands.

 

[Overswarm]

I dont like how ur tryin to put my ROB down. My ROB got me more victories than my other characters. Stop being ignorant about stuff. Inui is right. I 2-0d Neo at C3 and 3-0ed him Saturday. But no, I'm not a good ROB because i dont camp like the rest of u.

If I played Diddy and won without using bananas, it would be a testament to my skill as a player, not my skill as a Diddy. If I won with Marth but never got a tipper or beasted people with Snake without using grenades or destroyed someone with D3 without using grabs, it would be the same thing. Your ROB isn't bad, but you make a lot of inefficient decisions with him. You can just get away with it because you're good at Brawl. It's not an insult, just an observation. If you saw me beat notable players with Diddy without using bananas, it wouldn't be an insult for you to say "Guys, don't take too much from his Diddy... it's OS, not Diddy. He didn't use bananas at all, and they help Diddy out a lot".

 

[CO18]

If I played Diddy and won without using bananas, it would be a testament to my skill as a player, not my skill as a Diddy. If I won with Marth but never got a tipper or beasted people with Snake without using grenades or destroyed someone with D3 without using grabs, it would be the same thing. Your ROB isn't bad, but you make a lot of inefficient decisions with him. You can just get away with it because you're good at Brawl. It's not an insult, just an observation. If you saw me beat notable players with Diddy without using bananas, it wouldn't be an insult for you to say "Guys, don't take too much from his Diddy... it's OS, not Diddy. He didn't use bananas at all, and they help Diddy out a lot".

You're completely wrong lol. If you beat a TOP player without using diddy's bananas you would be a great diddy too bad you havent and most likely couldn't.

Ninjalink 3-0ing top players like NEO in tourney is testament to his amazing ROB and that he has one not that hes just a good player.

Thats a ******** statement.

 

[Overswarm]

You're completely wrong lol. If you beat a TOP player without using diddy's bananas you would be a great diddy too bad you havent and most likely couldn't.

Ninjalink 3-0ing top players like NEO in tourney is testament to his amazing ROB and that he has one not that hes just a good player.

Thats a ******** statement.

I used extreme examples to make sure someone got it. I was more worried about someone missing the point because I used extreme examples and then saying "WHAT KEY FACTOR DID NL NOT USE WITH HIS ROB?!" rather than someone saying "If you won without using bananas you'd be a good Diddy".... which is not true. I'd be a good player using Diddy. There is a difference.

 

[da K.I.D.]

sounds like a ROB ditto MM is in order...

@M2K thats messed up if you dont think lain is amazing

 

[Overswarm]

sounds like a ROB ditto MM is in order...

@M2K thats messed up if you dont think lain is amazing

Haha, I'm terrible at ROB dittos

Lain is just starting to get good. Hopefully he'll keep improving at this rate though.

 

[Anther]

Hopefully not. Jeez. I hate you lain, burn!!

 

[AlphaZealot]

I understand what OS is saying. Actually, there is a real life Diddy example that exists: Azen. He has picked up Diddy somewhat but doesn't really exploit the character-namely by not glide tossing/dribbling/doing a few other key things. Yet, being Azen, he will likely win in match ups where he chooses Diddy.

 

[da K.I.D.]

effing Azen, stuff would be so much less complecated if he wasnt around...

 

[RDK]

If NL can use ROB and not camp as heavily as is required of most ROB users, then that's just a testament to how good a ROB he is; that or he's extremely lucky. Obviously it's the former.

I understand what OS is saying. Actually, there is a real life Diddy example that exists: Azen. He has picked up Diddy somewhat but doesn't really exploit the character-namely by not glide tossing/dribbling/doing a few other key things. Yet, being Azen, he will likely win in match ups where he chooses Diddy.

Azen is Azen.

 

[Mew2King]

no johns about azen being azen, he plays really simple with diddy yet does really well. We simply don't have enough good diddys. Diddy is easily top tier.

da KID i dont know who hardly any of these midwest people are, but if a random nobody wins a tourney with his "scrubby MK" that means his opponents were also scrubs. That simple

 

[NinjaLink]

I understand what OS is saying. Actually, there is a real life Diddy example that exists: Azen. He has picked up Diddy somewhat but doesn't really exploit the character-namely by not glide tossing/dribbling/doing a few other key things. Yet, being Azen, he will likely win in match ups where he chooses Diddy.

This isnt true either. I seen Azen play diddy at C3 alot. He glidetosses to grabs and such. U can look on youtube for C3 vids.

 

[Mew2King]

glide tossing is so easy with diddy for some reason, i can do it every time. Even though it's not as far as characters like MK, it's so easy to do every time.

 

[infomon]

recovering with tornado is helpful a lot of the time, i do it when im at high percentage!

glide helps you cancel horizontal momentum better than DJ uairs?

Anything that pushes your momentum another direction helps. ROB's back-air, glides, pika/luigi side-b, anything that would move you farther away.

I made a new video with some demonstrations of proper momentum-cancelling.
[Recovering in Brawl: Momentum-Cancelling examples]

It shows some of the dynamics using Squirtle, Metaknight, and ROB.

I forgot about Diddy, but when he's heading towards the side kill-zone, his optimal strategy is to cancel hitstun with his fastest aerial (Bair I think?), fastfalled only if necessary to avoid the ceiling, and immediately afterwards use his side-B.

That video is really an addendum to my previous video:
[How to Recover, after DI: momentum-cancelling, etc.]
which has a bit more detail.

Finally, this post makes no sense to me:

For Diddy I think dodge > side-B beats using an air attack then side-B.

The whole air attack thing I think is misunderstand because the success of using an air attack versus dodging is dependent on launch speed. For example, if the speed is so high that you travel the entire distance to the kill zone before recovering from the (extremely small but still existent) hitstun (unlikely at less than 200%), then using an air attack is out of the question. However, it isn't just that-it is actually the kill zone - the distance traveled during the execution of the air attack = whether you should use the air attack or not versus air dodging.
Conversely:
Dodging and then side-bing (or other maneuvers with some characters) is still possible assuming the dodge recovers before the character reaches the kill zone. I need to do research into all this to confirm (and also properties that differ between every characters has a large amount to do with it)-but in theory that should be how it works.

Please watch my vids and then let me know if you know something I don't. Hitstun never outlasts knockback, they're intrinsically related. I think hitstun always lasts until a little before the end of knockback; that's where you transition to a tumble state. AFAIK every character except Snake, has at least one aerial attack that ends faster than an airdodge. The aerial itself doesn't help you recover, aside from fastfalling it to avoid the ceiling; it just lets you escape hitstun early so that you can use something else (a Jump, Special, or just your aerial influence) to avoid the killzone.

Hope this helps!

 

[demodemo]

are there any videos of M2K's sheik? i have heard things about it, and this thread reminded me

 

[Player-1]

no johns about azen being azen, he plays really simple with diddy yet does really well. We simply don't have enough good diddys. Diddy is easily top tier.

da KID i dont know who hardly any of these midwest people are, but if a random nobody wins a tourney with his "scrubby MK" that means his opponents were also scrubs. That simple

There's no way Diddy is top tier. He has too many bad match-ups and he has to many flaws to be exploited on. Although, with the rate the Diddy players are developing his metagame (single nana lock, ground tossing, tech chasing chaingrabs, peanutgun canceling, etc.) he is easily heading that way. Thanks AZ for not giving me any credit with the single nana lock >.>, here's a video of me doing with a mini tutorial in the description for anyone who wants a video (Note that I'm purposely taking this slow in the video but test have been done and you can't esape it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd84oApOEoc

Also, this is inescapable when done correctly and is an infinite on walls.

I agree with OS that NL ROB is good but not Z0MG T0op T13er poownage. NL is an amazing player and no brawl mechanics better than he knows the character, which, I think is better than knowing the character.

Too soon to ban MK, metagame for most characters are starting to evolve, it's going to be interesting to see how this turns out.

Learn 2 play Diddy Pro Mk banners