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The SBR's Official Position on Metaknight

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AlphaZealot

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So I've been practicing this for the last half hour and I think I can reverse it. Might try and make a video tonight/tomorrow.

OS: based on what? The infinite doesn't work or the lock doesn't work? All the people who have tested it haven't had anyone capable of rolling out, at least not with mk characters (maybe Zelda can, she seems to recover from trips faster than most characters). Hylian/LeThein/the discoverer of the move chromepirate all say the lock is inescapable.
 
AlphaZealot

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I'm hesitent to say the Bair/Uair iterations of the infinite work, but the Dair in my own testing seems inescapable. Smash DI is mostly meaningless from a trip, the difference in distance is largely negligible.
 
Hylian

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Zhamy said:
Hylian never stops amazing me.
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Thank you :).


Edit:

Lol inui.

Overswarm it does actually work 100% with dair. The others it works with as well I just wasn't fast falling properly with them. I've fixed that currently though.

I haven't proven the infinite yet though. I'm almost positive you can reverse it on falco and he can't get out however. I need to test it more on MK.

Reguardless, this is still really hard to set up as most players are not just going to let you jump over there heads lol.
 
R

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So do the odd fast-fall properties of his d-air help or hinder the combo? It seems like you can switch out the d-air with a d-ilt or d-smash, and then pursue off the ledge.

Edit: Hylian just got more awesome for having Collective Soul in his sig.
 
Overswarm

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You can SDI the original hit of the banana and go left or right to a greater degree.

also, try standing up from the banana trip. It is faster than rolling.
 
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aerial control solves that problem pretty easily. It's also ridiculously hard to smash DI anything that causes tripping.
 
AlphaZealot

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I don't-not only do I rarely see anyone EVER SDI a nana, the distance after the SDI is pretty much pointless-most characters simply don't pop far enough away. Maybe I suck at SDIing nanas and my tests aren't accurate, if that is the case I would love to see a video where a nana is SDI'd versus regular or no DI.
 
Hylian

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I just tested SDI on nana's and it really doesn't make a difference at all. I will go test it more however and try to get a video up comparing no DI to regular to SDI. I'm almost positive it doesn't effect it however.

I also tested rolling vs standing up and unless it's only a 10 frame difference I don't believe it to be faster then rolling or at least not fast enough to stop this.
 
Inui

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RDK said:
Olimar isn't nearly as gay as Diddy.
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If only you saw Atomsk's Olimar last weekend. It owned NinjaLink and everyone else in MD/VA he used it on. That stupid character forces you to approach and is a fortress at the same time. Clearly stupidly good.
 
tc1

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I wreck metaknight hard.. the only meta's that ive had a hard time fighting out of....

DSF - Ranked #1 in cali (socal + norcal)
C@nip - Ranked 3rd on the NCPR
Sean - Ranked 2nd on the NCPR
Plank - spamming noob..

is plank.. dsf was just better.. it was a difficult fight but he didn't **** me...
C@tnip and me go back and forth same with sean..
plank when a mk' only camps and only spams tornado it takes the fun out of the game.. and makes me want to drop ppl..

Its like a falco going to fd.. then only spamming lasers till ur 200 then crouch canceling dtilt.. but unlike melee the physics of brawl make it so its not ez to get around.. its nearly impossible if they have fair spacing.. Brawl is dumb.. Im maining mk ^_-
 
adumbrodeus

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tc1 said:
Plank - spamming noob..

....

plank when a mk' only camps and only spams tornado it takes the fun out of the game.. and makes me want to drop ppl..

Its like a falco going to fd.. then only spamming lasers till ur 200 then crouch canceling dtilt.. but unlike melee the physics of brawl make it so its not ez to get around.. its nearly impossible if they have fair spacing.. Brawl is dumb.. Im maining mk ^_-
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If it works and it's tournament legal... use it.

Your attitude is anti-competitive, why should we apply arbitrary rules of behavior? If it's proven broken and can be banned, ban it. Otherwise, don't blame blame people for using a perfectly legitimate technique. Play to win.
 
Orion*

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infzy said:
Actually, not really, no. Despite MK's amazingly fast Uair, he benefits very little from Brawl's momentum-cancelling system. For vertical KOs, the aerial speed doesn't matter, you just need to fastfall any aerial as it comes out; MK's fall speed is pretty quick according to one list I've seen, I'm not sure if they were using fastfall or regular fall though, but regardless MK is light enough that he still doesn't have an easy time surviving vertical KOs.

As for horizontal ones, where the fast Uair can actually help momentum cancelling: MK still has a terrible time. His floaty jumps have such terrible airspeed/acceleration, they barely help him survive at all; the extra boost you get for jumping in hitstun-cancelled knockback really goes against MK's favour. His side-B (drill) is his best tool for counteracting knockback, but as you know this leaves him miserably vulnerable, and he still doesn't have much horizontal movement after it's done so if he needs the drill to survive the side killzone, he'll still have a terrible time making it back to the stage.

AFAICT MK's best option is usually to cancel hitstun with his Uair, then immediately jump into a glide. But he still barely survives, relative to other lightweights like G&W, Pikachu, Squirtle, and Fox that seem to have better momentum-cancelling options.



vids or it didn't happen. :laugh:
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i havent read this whole thread yet... im like on pg. 35 out of 44 -__________-


but not enough attention was payed to **** post. i dont remember a legitimate response or anyone proving disproving it. im really curious if this is all true
 
Mew2King

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everything you said is true, however, recovering with torando is useful as well, but most people forget about it.

so you just fast fall and you live longer to the sky?

yes MKs double jump does not cut down his momentum much compared to most characters, (same with DDD), doing the Uairs just balances it out to be more average. It is not a huge deal.
 
infomon

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Mew2King said:
1. everything you said is true, however, recovering with torando is useful as well, but most people forget about it.

2. so you just fast fall and you live longer to the sky?

3. yes MKs double jump does not cut down his momentum much compared to most characters, (same with DDD), doing the Uairs just balances it out to be more average. It is not a huge deal.
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1. To be clear, I'm talking about when you escape hitstun early using an aerial, but you're still travelling along your knockback trajectory. Using a jump or any momentum-altering special, will give you an extra boost away from the stage (lol). The tornado does a terrible job at counteracting knockback; it barely makes up for the extra evil boost it gives you. Drill-rush, aternatively, works really well; but if you're in a situation where it might help you avoid the side killzone, you're almost certainly dead anyway once it's done.

If I'm not making much sense, I might make a vid tutorial/demonstration tonight lol. Lots of chars (Pikachu, Squirtle, Sonic, ...) have side-Bs that help avoid the side killzone, but I rarely see people do it.

2. Yep! You can fastfall at any time during an aerial attack, which you can use mid-hitstun. It's kinda strange that you can fastfall before reaching peak height, but w/e, your peak height gets reduced :)

3. I'm not sure what you mean about the Uairs. Uairs don't help you avoid the side, you should just use one to escape hitstun, then use your jumps to avoid the killzone. Actually I think a single jump > glide is MK's best option, unless you're actual in a position where side-B needs to be used (and will actually survive).
 
Overswarm

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Mew2King said:
glide helps you cancel horizontal momentum better than DJ uairs?
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Anything that pushes your momentum another direction helps. ROB's back-air, glides, pika/luigi side-b, anything that would move you farther away.

The best you can do is u-air then jump and glide.

Well, over-b works but you'll die afterwards.
 
AlphaZealot

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For Diddy I think dodge > side-B beats using an air attack then side-B.

The whole air attack thing I think is misunderstand because the success of using an air attack versus dodging is dependent on launch speed. For example, if the speed is so high that you travel the entire distance to the kill zone before recovering from the (extremely small but still existent) hitstun (unlikely at less than 200%), then using an air attack is out of the question. However, it isn't just that-it is actually the kill zone - the distance traveled during the execution of the air attack = whether you should use the air attack or not versus air dodging.
Conversely:
Dodging and then side-bing (or other maneuvers with some characters) is still possible assuming the dodge recovers before the character reaches the kill zone. I need to do research into all this to confirm (and also properties that differ between every characters has a large amount to do with it)-but in theory that should be how it works.
 
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