The Old Diddy Social/General/Q&A Thread

[ADHD]

Falco, marth, and luigi all can make you have to change your playstyle drastically. You can't throw anything directly at marth when he's in front of you, you can't punish any of his aerial landing lag and otherwise he'll just catch it.

 

[cong]

I been having some trouble against Marth players, im generally okay aslong as i got a nana out but if the marth player manages to get rid of them, its a major pain.

anyone got any advice on this? so basiclly w/o nanas is there anything diddy can do?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Don't try to space cause Marth wins with range. Weak spot is below him, he can only airdodge or do laggy D-air. Bait D-air and punish landing. Basicly just try to keep nanas under your control. I'm uploading a vid of my not-so-good Diddy vs a not-so-good Marth soon

 

[AvaricePanda]

Of the three, Falco is definitely the easiest IMO. I have more trouble with like Peach or Sonic than I have trouble with Falco (although that's probably due to my horrible inexperience with those match-ups).

Generally, I have just a little more trouble with Luigi onstage, although offstage I have a lot more trouble with Marth. Marth can basically snuff every possible attempt you have of getting back onstage if he doesn't gimp you in the first place. When recovering I usually get dealt like 30% because I can't find a way to get back. However, he doesn't seem to have the easy on-stage kills like Luigi has (but he can dolphin slash through your upsmash, wtf).

Luigi is just annoying because you'll be in the middle of comboing him and he just pulls out a nair and combos you to 50%. Luigi's recovery seems much harder to gimp compared to Marth, and Luigi kills solidly at like 90% while you can't do the same to him. Because of his weird traction, GT to fsmash/dsmash doesn't work unless like perfectly spaced. It's really hard to get a solid kill on Luigi, although he can get a solid kill on you.

I'm pretty sure Marth is a worse match-up for Diddy than Luigi, although I have more trouble with Luigi.

 

[Bellioes]

For me, this matchup is only difficult if you go about it in the wrong way. You cant play too aggressively
against Marths. You got to be more patient against them until you find an opening. To be honest, I dont believe its possible to approach Marth w/o a banana.

Marths can weave in and out of range while Fairing making it very difficult to approach and impossible to shield grab. They can pressure without putting themselves at any risk. The only answers Ive found to this approach is GTing forward immediately after the first Fair.

For the more experienced Marths, this wont work as often cause theyll vary their approaches. They can DI towards and through your shield landing behind you, use his Neutral B to eat at your shield, SHFF autocancelled Fair with correct spacing so you cant shieldgrab. Try running towards them and PSing their reaction. Works especially well if they try to beat you with a Fair cause theyre stuck in the air.

Once you have an opening, keep up the pressure and stay close to him. With your speed, itll be difficult for him to escape back to where his range beats you. Hold on to this momentum for as long as possible and dont let Marth get away to where hes more comfortable.

EDIT: And yeah, STAY ONSTAGE. His edgeguarding game is incredible and youll be hard pressed to get back on stage.
About the bananas, just dont throw them directly at Marth as ADHD said. You cant be aggressive. Play it safe until youre sure the banana will hit and then follow what I said above. It works for me at least.

 

[white peachy]

Well...Diddy's F-air helps in all these matchups. And bananas' effectiveness are greatly diminished in all these matchups. Falco is very combo-able at low % for diddy and his relatively poor killing power makes this matchup manageable. I still think REALLY good Falcos are tough for diddy, for reasons more than just the crazy hitbox of the shine. Marth is diddy's worst matchup IMO. His F-air nabs bananas withh, he can gimp you easily if you're not careful. You won't kill him below 150% if he knows what he's doing...this is just a hard matchup for diddy. Free grabs come at a premium which isn't the case against 90% of the cast for diddy. Like Falco, Marth his kind of underplayed right now, but good ones are very difficult. Luigi obvious is one of the most difficult characters for diddy to set up his kill moves, grabs, and DA combos on because of his lack of traction. The only matchup out of the three that I can't really seem to improve dramatically of the 3 is marth though. I'm just lost there.

 

[ADHD]

I know what to do against marth, now PM me.

 

[Player-1]

seriously...what's up with Marth, you guys over exaggerate this matchup too much =/

 

[Count]

P1, have you ever played a good marth offline? Marth sucks online compared to offline..there's not a good marth in your region, or at least that you've played, so you can't say its easy if you've never played a good one offline.

 

[Player-1]

P1, have you ever played a good marth offline? Marth sucks online compared to offline..there's not a good marth in your region, or at least that you've played, so you can't say its easy if you've never played a good one offline.

Lol, when did I ever say it was easy ever? I just said you were over exaggerating it. And yes, I have quite a few good Marths in my region, one of them being Hrnut who is amazing (he maybe have dropped him, GDX...?), although I haven't played him. I have a pretty good Marth here in GA, and one decent one. So yes, I have played a good one(s) offline, and I never said it was easy...lol, it's a bad matchup for Diddy I personally think 60-40, but you guys over exaggerate it.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

do you guys think that its worse than the mk matchup?

personally, i think its 5% harder

 

[DFEAR]

i have chaz in my area :\ its an annoying fight. but its really just being patient with marth :\,

 

[white peachy]

do you guys think that its worse than the mk matchup?

personally, i think its 5% harder

Yeah I think it's harder personally. I don't really like dealing with numbers for matchup breakdowns so I can't really numerate the exact difference for you. He's not a true counter really (I guess...) but he's close to it. Marth has the advantage on all the neutrals too which metaknight doesn't necessarily have. It kinda sucks.

I think there's a distinction though which makes it less obvious for some people to see why it's so tough. That is there's "good Marths" and then there's "great Marth's." The great ones do a lot of little things that good ones don't, and it adds up in the end. I know that sounds vastly oversimplified but that's the only way I can explain it unless you've played a really great one.

 

[Thibault]

i have a question! I useually **** Snakes but Eazyseph F**ks my S**t up hard....... has anyone brawled him before and won with diddy? ive won once with wario and once with luigi both on battlefield

 

[Bellioes]

Another question: Whats air camping? How does a Wario do it so effectively (does he use FH or SH, which aerial does he use, or does he air dodge? etc)
Also. I know that it makes it hard to banana combo but Diddy has a decent air game as well; So why do people hate this technique so much? I mean you can still punish them in the air with a Fair or something. I never really understood when people used this term

 

[Thibault]

Another question: Whats air camping? How does a Wario do it so effectively (does he use FH or SH, which aerial does he use, or does he air dodge? etc)
Also. I know that it makes it hard to banana combo but Diddy has a decent air game as well; So why do people hate this technique so much? I mean you can still punish them in the air with a Fair or something. I never really understood when people used this term

air camping is jumping around and staying airborn as much as possible
wario is the best at it because his airdodge *****, its hard to use your banana game not only bc of his airdodge but he has a bike he can eat nanas and nanas cant trip in the air, brb finding a video for the last two questions

 

[DFEAR]

question:
how do i adapt to my opponents attacks and bait them safely ":\ while not over analyzing things and end up screwing myself over for it?

i can understand if the only way i can achieve this is through more experience cuase then lol i guess i need more :\

 

[AvaricePanda]

DFear, all I can honestly say is more experience lol. Things like that are hard to say how to do on paper.

However, an easy example I can think of are Yoshi's and Bowsers sit (or whatever) attacks they have when they're in the air. Some mains of these characters don't use these, although some do, and it may catch you offguard. If you notice your opponent likes doing that, you can stand under them when they're in the air, bait the attack, dodge/sheild it, and punish accordingly. Things like that.

Question: Can Rocket Barrels be used moderately offensively? I've been testing it out with a couple of matches, and I haven't really been punished for it. When the opponent is at a high percent, you can use it as a GTFO move and the knockback can send them far back enough to where you can't be punished. There's a huge amount of danger if you whiff one, which is why I don't do it at moderately high percents so I don't get killed.

I understand there's a lot of risk involved with doing this, I just don't think it's completely unreasonable. It could be used as a surprise attack once or twice a game.

 

[Nefarious B]

What's the best way for a ZSS to play against Diddy? I couldn't really find a good (current) match up discussion on either board, and really I'm trying to figure out if going a more aggressive or a more defensive route is more effective against him. Of course matchup specific info would be great if anyone is familiar with it, thanks.

 

[Browny]

srs question

Why is diddy so easy to win with. people always say how if you're good at brawl, you're good at MK. I think the same applies for diddy. This notion of diddy having a very high learning curve imo only applies to people who are new to brawl. Ive seen people in tourneys near me only recently pick up diddy and suddenly they do miles better than they did with any other character, and my diddy is the same. I think Diddy is similar to MK in this respect. bad people at brawl can become good by using MK, but good people can become great by using diddy.

im not sore about losing to one or anything, it hasnt happened (yet ), just my observations. But do any other diddy mains feel the same? I mean the higher level ones. like do you feel you have to work harder for a win with diddy, now that you are good at the game, than you do with any other character?

 

[GDX]

srs question

Why is diddy so easy to win with. people always say how if you're good at brawl, you're good at MK. I think the same applies for diddy. This notion of diddy having a very high learning curve imo only applies to people who are new to brawl. Ive seen people in tourneys near me only recently pick up diddy and suddenly they do miles better than they did with any other character, and my diddy is the same. I think Diddy is similar to MK in this respect. bad people at brawl can become good by using MK, but good people can become great by using diddy.

im not sore about losing to one or anything, it hasnt happened (yet ), just my observations. But do any other diddy mains feel the same? I mean the higher level ones. like do you feel you have to work harder for a win with diddy, now that you are good at the game, than you do with any other character?

yes

winning with diddy at higher levels of play isnt easy

neither is winning with diddy consistently at high levels

because any good player can somewhat deal with bananas. not 100% but effectively enough

 

[AvaricePanda]

Dj, that only works against people that don't know the matchup. Just like MK. Blindly throwing bananas will work against someone who doesn't know the matchup at all, but he really isn't, "Pick him up and own."

If you're just an adequate Diddy playing really good people, you're going to get owned. Diddy really does have a high learning curve; he takes a fair amount of consistency and tech skill, mindgames with bananas so your opponent doesn't take them easily, etc.

 

[B!squick]

Sorry, disregard.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

anyone wanna give me some tips on playing on brinstar? I'm pretty good on it, but since i find more people cping it against me lately some tips wouldn't hurt

 

[Count]

@avaricepanda

I think if you use the barrels extremely moderately it could occasionally work, but at the same time I think there are usually better options and once you get to higher levels of play one whiff can cause you a ton of percent, or even a stock.

That being said, I know I've seen NL use the barrels offensively before, and I'm not the most experienced person here obviously, I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this topic.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

i would only use barrels if i think they're gonna spam, but they don't
i would then try to hit them or aim for an edge

if it clashes with people's aerials i would be more motivated to use it

 

[tibs7]

i need help with the falco matchup, reflector owns diddy. the only way i win is by finally getting him off and keeping him off....i need some tactics to use against falco =)

 

[DFEAR]

i need help with the falco matchup, reflector owns diddy. the only way i win is by finally getting him off and keeping him off....i need some tactics to use against falco =)

u have to play campy and defensive as ****. you have to space ur attacks far enough to where he cannot punish u with a chain grab at early percents and u must bait his reflector or just simply sideb kick if u want or jump over him and throw the naner down. hes really not that hard if u camp appropriately and space safely. but dont trust what i say. do things urself and see what works ya know? just expect a ****load of air based attacks from him xD

 

[Bellioes]

What's the best way for a ZSS to play against Diddy? I couldn't really find a good (current) match up discussion on either board, and really I'm trying to figure out if going a more aggressive or a more defensive route is more effective against him. Of course matchup specific info would be great if anyone is familiar with it, thanks.

Well noones answered your question yet
I actually dont really know much about this matchup except basic things that are true for all characters (avoid her Dsmash, her DownB can spike etc.)
I would either check some videos of the matchup (check Chromes thread, he has a set vs Snakeee up) or ask someone more experienced than me.

 

[Bellioes]

Sorry for the double post but heres a new question.

I heard P-1 talking about Diddys SideB in one of the other threads. He was talking about mixing it up (SideB to midair jump, SideB to AD etc.)

Anyways, Im pretty familiar with Diddys SideB but I dont think I know everything there is to know. For example, P-1 said something about SideB kick canceling. Could someone elaborate on this and on any other small tricks concerning his SideB that I should know of?

 

[AvaricePanda]

@tibs

If they're very reflector spammy, then you can dribble around to juke them out or flip barely over their reflector for a hit. Better Falcos (obviously) aren't so reflector spammy and will use laser pressure when you're trying to approach. Best answer really is to mix everything up. In general, aerial approaches get around his reflector, along with flips, but you're going to have to mix approaches up with double jumps, short hops, spotdodging and sheilding, etc.

Falco is easily gimpable and you have a lot of options to gimp him, including peanuts, z-dropped or thrown bananas, easy edgehogs when they have to use their upB, etc.

I find Falco's kills to be generally easy to avoid if you know the range of his Fsmash. I also don't worry much abouit the CG; a lot of times, the Falco makes their grab attempts obvious, and you can punish these. IMO the stupidest parts of the matchup are his lasers and how easily he can turn momentum around with a good reflector.

I don't find it that hard of a matchup.

 

[Player-1]

Sorry for the double post but heres a new question.

I heard P-1 talking about Diddys SideB in one of the other threads. He was talking about mixing it up (SideB to midair jump, SideB to AD etc.)

Anyways, Im pretty familiar with Diddys SideB but I dont think I know everything there is to know. For example, P-1 said something about SideB kick canceling. Could someone elaborate on this and on any other small tricks concerning his SideB that I should know of?

You can cancel the landing lag on the kick by activating the kick as soon as you leave the ground which requires timing that I'm still trying to find out, then airdodge before you hit the ground.

 

[DFEAR]

You can cancel the landing lag on the kick by activating the kick as soon as you leave the ground which requires timing that I'm still trying to find out, then airdodge before you hit the ground.

yea its really useful i still dont know the timing myself but when u do it correctly u can do ANY other move such as grab for example or a spotdodge but its super hard as **** and easily punishable if done wrong :\

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with being forced to play campier and more defensive in more and more match ups? I can't tell if I'm just facing more of those characters in tourney or if my playstyle is just getting really campy.

 

[white peachy]

I've been saying for awhile that camping is immensely helpful in a number of matchups for Diddy. He's really good at it. I know there is a negative conotation attached to "camping" in competitive gaming, but it is a HUGE part of brawl.

...It stopped annoying me like last June. It's unfortunate, but necessary if you want to play the game and be successful.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

That was my problem this weekend.

My matches went GaW, Falco, Meta, Wario, GaW, Wario, Sonic.

By the time I got to the Sonic I just couldn't deal with camping anymore. I got so bored. And, yes, imo camping a good sonic is solid strat. You can go really aggro but it's harder and not worth the risk all of the time. Did I just hit a day were camping was what I needed or do I need to condition myself to just not lose focus?

 

[Le_THieN]

That was my problem this weekend.

My matches went GaW, Falco, Meta, Wario, GaW, Wario, Sonic.

By the time I got to the Sonic I just couldn't deal with camping anymore. I got so bored. And, yes, imo camping a good sonic is solid strat. You can go really aggro but it's harder and not worth the risk all of the time. Did I just hit a day were camping was what I needed or do I need to condition myself to just not lose focus?

After Espy packed my lunch on Green Greens at the end of our set at Final Smash V back in January, I went back and studied my matches and figured out that his Sonic pretty much dictated the tempo of all three matches and turned my own banana game on me. I have since gone on to annihilate every Sonic I've seen in tournament since then (including the ones I ran into at CoT4 in Philly), and figured out that pure, 100% defense will completely shut all Sonics down. If you literally pluck a banana, grab it and run around, what can they do to you? As far as I can tell, it annoys the p*ss out of them. They also have no other option but to approach you when you stand around with a banana in your hand on the opposite end of the stage whenever they are charging one of their stupid Spin Dashes. Or Spin Charge. Whatever.

Sonic's game seems to largely revolve around punishing aggression. Make that piece of **** come to you.

 

[ChocoNaner]

I need some tips on how to fight G&W on Norfair and Frigate. Frigate's weird set-up and Norfair's multiple pass-through platforms makes it hard to fight them. =/

It's mostly me having to play defensively then going all out agressive when I get the chance. Works until I'm the one that's struggling to get some breathing space.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

I need some tips on how to fight G&W on Norfair and Frigate. Frigate's weird set-up and Norfair's multiple pass-through platforms makes it hard to fight them. =/

It's mostly me having to play defensively then going all out agressive when I get the chance. Works until I'm the one that's struggling to get some breathing space.

AlphaZealot's Thread on Norfair
- Norfair is One of Diddy Kong's Best Stages: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230510

Le_Thien Video on Norfair
-a fairly decent and well respected diddy, plays a G&W on Norfair:
- UTZ Zac (G&W) vs. Le THieN (Diddy) #10: Norfair : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3q9mNHfQE

PhatyCHONG's Diddy Tournament stage Discussion
- Has discussed the G&W match up for CP and BAN, you can probably find this useful
- The Official Diddy Kong Tournament Stage Match-up Discussion: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225477

Hopes this helps!
PhatyCHONG

 

[Kewkky]

Does Diddy have a DACUS...?

BecauseI have a replay which, apparently, I can't explain in ANY way, I found myself doing an accidental DACUS. The dash he does with the usmash is just too great to simply be a dash>usmash.

Just asking before I do any recording. If you guys say he doesn't, then I'll record that point of the match and post it here. Hope I'm helping you guys out by doing this, as I don't even use Diddy. :D