The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[RadLink5]

and even if there was something like that, you cant GARANTEE that there is, so you cant say the ban shouldnt take effect just because you have a whim, that could happen... thats just not feasible.

you saying yea hes ****** now, and its pretty likely that hes going to **** for a really long time, but as long as theres a chance that something will be found in the future to make him a normal character, we cant ban him.

You are mistaken, good sir. I never said Meta Knight is ******, I said he's doing well. Meta Knight is a good character, not a broken one. But now we're going in circles.

 

[CR4SH]

I think it was about a year in. I can't be sure though.



But he intentionally programmed that an airdodge going into the floor results in a slide. He even admitted in an interview that he knew of the existence of wavedashing and consciously left it in.

OK then it an exploit. Or just a known glitch.

If you seriously, honestly, want to argue that Hal labs built THIS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX0utHVPghc

on purpose? I want some of whatever it is that you're smoking.

 

[DRaGZ]

It's not a glitch if it was intentionally designed to work that way.

Roll Cancelling in CvS2 is a glitch. Variable canceling in SC3 is a glitch.

Snaking in Mario Kart DS is not. Wavedashing is not. Grenade and rocket jumping in TF2 is not. They are just clever exploitations of the game's engine.

If all of those are glitches, then the entire game of Portal is a giant glitch.

 

[XIF]

Reading this last page alone makes me sad

why?

People who dont know a god ****ed thing about Melee.

I like people pretending to know things

MLG wasnt even around for Smash in 2003. It was half heartedly added in 2004, and it was really big in 2005 and 2006, and then they took it off the circuit and had the grassroots tournaments in 2007.

Ken was barely starting his reign as smash champ at 2003, and L-cancelling and wavedashing were known probably weeks into the games lifespan, and were mainstream months thereafter. He was using all the basic advanced strats by 2004 easy, because the was the Game Over and early TG's era.

The basic tier list was for the most part decided by late 2004 anyway. The only major changes were Falco moving way up and sheik being dethroned as best in game. Oh, and Ice Climbers, but the consensus then was more like "We know we dont know anything about IC's, so they'll be mid until someone good with them *****" Then chudat came and it was insta-upper tier. After those three no character has moved more than a handful of placings. Luigi went down to mid tier from bottom of upper, some stuff moved around with Bowser and Mewtwo, but other than those 3, we had a very good idea of character strength.

The only game breaking strategies to be discovered after the first year of two of melee (and to compare to brawl, we did not have online matches, nor the absurdly large user base on smashboard we had back in 2003.) Was some discoveries into DI/SDI/ASDI, ledge teching, and that stupid light sheild strategy that made edge hogging marth absurdly easy with some characters. Wall bombing I suppose was neat, but other than that, nothing much.

Even early on in Melee's lifespan, there was never one character so dominant in the metagame as MK is right now. There is so much anecdotal and empirical evidence to support this. No one saw sheik and went to main her in droves like MK. And she was never far and away the best character like MK. Ankoku already has shown MK's dominance with that rankings thing.

Even looking at his abilities and moveset. Up B is absurdly powerful, and only a handfull of moves actually beat it, while also being an easy edge guard move. His glide attack cannot be beaten by any move in the game if spaced correctly, tornado is absurd and makes many characters unplayable.

HE CAN FLY

Most of his moves come out way faster than any move in the game, His Dair is absurdly good at edgeguarding, and he has the added bonus of being able to remove his hitbox from the screen and move about the stage with impunity.

Look, the funny part is that even if you ban MetaKnight, you are left with a terrible game anyway. Random tripping alone makes this game an absolute joke. Then you have basic mechanics like air dodging and auto sweet spotting that strip the game of any semblance of edge guarding (unless you're metaknight) and then characters with rolls and dodges which only leave you with 1 or 2 frames of vulnerability. Chain grabs with Dedede and Falco for literal 10-0 matchups, and the fact that sheilding in this game is like the only way to go because you can simply to anything out of it if you simply release it.

what's a sheild grab?

The only way to win is to quit brawl. I'm not even saying pick up Melee instead. Guilty Gear is a great game. And with extremely promising games like Street Fighter Super Turbo 2 HD Remix and BlazBlue coming out, there's no reason to stick with a game like Brawl.

You only lose slightly less so by banning Metaknight.

 

[CR4SH]

edit: deleted for fail.

 

[DRaGZ]

Theres a HUUUUUGE difference between wavedashing in melee and rocket jumping in TF. But I think you unintentionally stumbled on something I could take you to task on, so I won't. Rocket jumping is so incredibly intentional that it's a crux of the soldier playstyle and the basis for most of the level designs. Wavedashing, the way it is, was not how the game was "intended" to be played. Saying it is, is just goofy, and not really worth a serious argument.

Rocket jumping was not intentional in the original TF. Valve just decided to transfer it over to TF2 and keep it as an official mechanic (which is something every video game company should do). That's like saying grenade jumping was intentionally implemented in Doom and Quake.

 

[Count]

Don't even compare how brawl was 'dumbed down' to how tf2 was dumbed down. If anybody here played TFC competitively, TFC>tf2 is 100x more dumbed down than melee>brawl.

 

[XIF]

OK then it an exploit. Or just a known glitch.

If you seriously, honestly, want to argue that Hal labs built THIS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX0utHVPghc

on purpose? I want some of whatever it is that you're smoking.

That is such a terrible example, I dont even know what to say.

To argue that any fighting game has been released with the end result of tournament play in mind is absurd.

And that match is so old and unimpressive, it only continues to show people's ignorance about melee. I can easily imagine the creators of the game at least being able to comprehend at least those ancient strategies.

 

[CR4SH]

I have to say, that makes me look like a tool. I'll stop now, even though I still disagree with you on wavedashing fundamentally. There's no way for me to salvage this argument. I misinterpreted you and screwed myself pretty good.

touche?

 

[Emblem Lord]

I like the way XIF thinks.

I'm personally waiting on Street Fighter 4 to hit consoles.

 

[Blackbelt]

I like the way XIF thinks.

I'm personally waiting on Street Fighter 4 to hit consoles.

aren't we all?

 

[XIF]

I like the way XIF thinks.

I'm personally waiting on Street Fighter 4 to hit consoles.

I was excited as well but I heard some people in NY (Mike G was telling me some DA peeps got a hold of one of the early versions) and that SF4 basically "Got Brawled"

But hopefully that isnt the case, and regardless, BlazBlue holds my soul now.

 

[Boxob]

I think Metaknight won't be banned because there are other characters who are faster than him.

Sonic's a lot faster than him.

 

[Blackbelt]

I was excited as well but I heard some people in NY (Mike G was telling me some DA peeps got a hold of one of the early versions) and that SF4 basically "Got Brawled"

But hopefully that isnt the case, and regardless, BlazBlue holds my soul now.

Well, there's always Street Fighter 2 HD Mix, which is being designed for tourney play in mind.

 

[Mortimer]

Good point, but this makes me curious. Does anyone know how long it took people to find roll canceling in Capcom vs SNK 2?

Good question, let's see if I can figure it out.

It was fixed for CVS2 EO, which released feb 2003. Since CVS2 came out in September 2001 (for consoles), that means it took under a year to be found.

Let's see.. a guide up on gamefaqs lists it, posted in July 2002, which means under 8 months. (I'm assuming gamefaqs lists the date as last updated, rather than first time uploaded).

So it took around 8 months for roll canceling to be found and added to a FAQ.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I mean SF4 still has combos and ****...so I don't know how it got Brawled.

All the basic 2-d fighter elements are there.

I been watching vids and it looks solid.

Sagat and Ryu are holding it down pretty well.

Old school projectile zoning FTW!!!

Oh wait...wait..I forgot..we are on smashboards.

Here they call it "spamming" and it's frowned upon instead of being recognized as a legit strategy.

 

[Espy Rose]

I think Metaknight won't be banned because there are other characters who are faster than him.

Sonic's a lot faster than him.

Oh Boxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxob, you're so crazy.

But yes, he is too slow.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I like the way XIF thinks.

I'm personally waiting on Street Fighter 4 to hit consoles.

what he said

 

[XIF]

I mean SF4 still has combos and ****...so I don't know how it got Brawled.

All the basic 2-d fighter elements are there.

I been watching vids and it looks solid.

Sagat and Ryu are holding it down pretty well.

Old school projectile zoning FTW!!!

Oh wait...wait..I forgot..we are on smashboards.

Here they call it "spamming" and it's frowned upon instead of being recognized as a legit strategy.

like I said I dont know for sure, but hopefully its all good.

and whatever you scrub spammer

you guys and your WaveGlitching and L-Dashing.

 

[Boxob]

I mean SF4 still has combos and ****...so I don't know how it got Brawled.

All the basic 2-d fighter elements are there.

I been watching vids and it looks solid.

Sagat and Ryu are holding it down pretty well.

Old school projectile zoning FTW!!!

Oh wait...wait..I forgot..we are on smashboards.

Here they call it "spamming" and it's frowned upon instead of being recognized as a legit strategy.

That's because when you release a hadoken in those games, they scream it.

I'm pretty sure if every time Wolf used neutral B, if he screamed "Baaaaaaw" every time, it'd be much more tolerable.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I mean SF4 still has combos and ****...so I don't know how it got Brawled.

All the basic 2-d fighter elements are there.

I been watching vids and it looks solid.

Sagat and Ryu are holding it down pretty well.

Old school projectile zoning FTW!!!

Oh wait...wait..I forgot..we are on smashboards.

Here they call it "spamming" and it's frowned upon instead of being recognized as a legit strategy.

i have to say i love the fact that this is coming from a marth player

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol boxob is too good

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Well SF4 was at hobo 11 and it definitely looked slower but then someone from NY said it just looks slower and still plays the same. I'm not sure thats actually possible but meh.

 

[Dark Sonic]

OK then it an exploit. Or just a known glitch.

.

Exploit=/= glitch. A glitch is a programming error. An exploit is just using a game mechanic in a way that wasn't intended.

Wavedashing was just using the momentum from airdodging to hit the ground at a low angle immediately after a jump. The result is the momentum from your airdodge transfering as you hit the ground, giving you a slide effect.

The game is running exactly how it was programmed. Not a glitch.

<3 X.I.F. I too wait for Blazblue. I'm gonna main Jin (aren't we all )

 

[Emblem Lord]

I personally don't care if someone uses projectiles on me.

What am I gonna tell a Falco player?

Don't shoot lasers at me so I can **** you?

lmao.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^But if he didn't shoot the lasers I would have nothing to powershield!!!

lol.

 

[Mortimer]

Exploit=/= glitch. A glitch is a programming error. An exploit is just using a game mechanic in a way that wasn't intended.

An exploit is a design error. A glitch is a programming error. They're both flaws that the game creators didn't intend or anticipate.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I don't care if people spam either and I'm an Ike main. Just seems really dumb not too. Sometimes I just pick falco my self and do nothing but shoot for the hell of it.

 

[RadLink5]

Street Fighter IV looks as fast as the non-turbo'd Street Fighter IIs from watching matches on YouTube. Probably not a reliable way to tell, of course.

And yes, we all wait anxiously for BlazBlue, although I can't shake the feeling I'll keep comparing it to Guilty Gear and finding myself disappointed.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm pretty sure that it's a direct sequel to the GG series.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Not nescessarily. The programmers designed directional airdodging on purpose. They also desinged momenutm transfering on purpose (look at Luigi). And they surely designed jumping on purpose.

When you put the three together, you have wavedashing. Hell, airdodging even has a different landing animation than just normally landing (special land fall is what the debug menu calls it).

Besides, in the relm of fighting games, exploits are a good thing unless proven otherwise (I can't even think of a case where this has happened). Glitches are too, but some glitches are detrimental (Mewtwo's soul stunner glitch, the IC's freeze glitch, ect.) Super wavedashing is a glitch...and we love it.

edit: this wasn't at you Emblem Lord.

And really? I didn't know Blazblue was a sequel to GG. That just makes it even more awesome.

 

[Boxob]

G'night scrubs.

 

[da K.I.D.]

is that a series cus ive never heard of it...

can i get a vid of a previous game or something, or can someone explain the game for me?

EDIT
EL read my mind. but can i still get a vid of it, or is it the first game in its series
boxob is too good, even though he sucks

 

[Dark Sonic]

G'night scrubs.

G'night Boxob.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You never heard of Guilty Gear?

You must be joking.

 

[Boxob]

Wow wait, I'm prolonging my sleeplessness to see if DaKID is really that much a of noob to life that he doesn't know what Guilty Gear is.

This better be good.

 

[Dark Sonic]

@Emblem Lord-I think he was talking to Boxob. We joke around like that.

edit:@Boxob-I think he was talking to you.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I need to figure which SF4 character i'm gonna learn first. Hopefully Sakura is viable. I would prefer not to have to look at Rufus. I heard C.Viper is trash.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ive heard of GG im actually decent at it. but blazblue is completely new and sounds like a series of its own

 

[Emblem Lord]

Rufus is beast. Sagat is too of course.

Alex Valle already won a tourney with Ryu.

Ken is nice.

Pretty much everyone you would expect to be good is good. lol.

Cept Akuma. >_>