The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Coffee™]

You tell me what else he got. What makes him so up there. And Bring me these results that Pit has done better than Peach.

B Rank «Standard» 23.12%

13 Pit (18 top8, 10 top4, 2 wins) - 151.8 - 12

C Rank «Borderline» 10.26%

19 Peach (14 top8, 7 top4, 4 top2, 3 wins) - 109.7 - 21

Results brought...

 

[Commander_Beef]

Were all of those quote necessary just to say THAT...?

(Look on previous page)
Yeah because he's being too hyperactive, or as said before, being overreactive. He just needs to learn when to just relax and enjoy the forum.

 

[Jupz]

Imo Pit and DK are way better then Peach, although I rarely use Peach. Pit has projectiles and good smashes and DK has great power and priority, and his bair is great He would be much higher without D3's infinite IMO.

 

[RenegadeRaven]

And you don't get it once again. Youcan't not even dare denie this dude has a killing problem. yet he makes up for it. I am not comparing these 2 characters. Falco is used as an exmaple of saying he can't kill well but there is alot more to falco that makes up for it.

. . . We know this. We know Peach can make up for her killing problems. But the fact remains, she HAS killing problems. DK doesn't have to think twice about killing.

Also, don't forget, the longer your opponent is alive, the more damage they can inflict on you. So while Peach maybe compensating for her killing problems by racking up damage, the opponent has a chance to rack up damage too.

 

[Suspect]

Technically, White is no colour but a contrast.

If you REALLY want to get technical. White is actually ALL the colors, so everyone using anything other than white is really just racist.

All colored lights result in white, yes.

That's only in the spectrum of light, which is different from solid colors. In solids, white is the absence of light and black is all colors.

Actually, white would be more properly be called a mixture of all colors.

Black absorbs all colors so nothing reaches your eye.

White is the opposite, it reflects all colors so every color reaches your eye.

In practice, the effect of black can be created by mixing all colors together so everything is absorbed, but in terms of the light rays, white is all colors, not black.

As do I.

And if black is really all the colors together, wouldn't people who are racist against blacks be racist against everyone? =O

as a black man i am proud

 

[Collective of Bears]

Wow I think this thread get the award for most off-topic discussion.

 

[rehab]

Dark Peach is very much a dude by the way

 

[Deathcarter]

You seriously need to calm down.

I am not taking Drk. Peaches side in particular, but he has stated time and time again that he is relaxed when posting. He apparently just says it like he thinks it. He is not furious with anyone; he just doesn't waste his time getting too worked over for an internet debate nor using any emoticons. In fact, he said earlier in the thread he enjoyed the debate and being ganged up 100 to 1. Dark Peach's state of mind is not some complex puzzle we need to decipher. He flat out tells us his state of mind. He really needs to sig that.

As far as why he posts like that, I beleive he posts rather passionately in this debate because he thinks Peach is being wronged and beleives that his "truth in your face" posting style will help aid him in overcoming the stuborness of his adversaries and help them see the light. Just go to the Peach boards and find one of their longer threads. He speaks like this to the Peaches that side with him. I don't recall him specifiying why he posts passonitely in his posts he states that he is emotionally detached from. This is just my educated guess.

 

[Kingsmash-a-lot]

Zero is better than Lucario. Food for thought.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I am not taking Drk. Peaches side in particular, but he has stated time and time again that he is relaxed when posting. He apparently just says it like he thinks it. He is not furious with anyone; he just doesn't waste his time getting too worked over for an internet debate nor using any emoticons. In fact, he said earlier in the thread he enjoyed the debate and being ganged up 100 to 1. Dark Peach's state of mind is not some complex puzzle we need to decipher. He flat out tells us his state of mind. He really needs to sig that.

As far as why he posts like that, I beleive he posts rather passionately in this debate because he thinks Peach is being wronged and beleives that his "truth in your face" posting style will help aid him in overcoming the stuborness of his adversaries and help them see the light. Just go to the Peach boards and find one of their longer threads. He speaks like this to the Peaches that side with him. I don't recall him specifiying why he posts passonitely in his posts he states that he is emotionally detached from. This is just my educated guess.

Finally, someone gets it. I have not ONCE over reacted in this whole thing at all. I said this so many times. you people are the ines over reacting with what I have to say. Stop assume you know how I am. Cause you don't. And because you boys think you do, it leads to problems.

So enough with telling me to calm down when I am fine, even while posting this. What from this post you gonna assume I am mad? bet you would have if I not said other wise. So cut the BS Please.

And I don't care what others have to say about me.I say Peach belong over those 2 characters. I feel this list on where she is is wrong. And will speak and defend my character for her rights that I feel she deserves and you boys think she does not.

 

[aeghrur]

Dude, I have been saying that this whole time. where have YOU been?

Dude, why didn't you just agree with me then instead of going on about how "she has things aside from killing problems." Did you not understand my question? I asked if you admit that she had a killing problem, not if she had stuff to make up for it. We got into that whole crap-shoot for nothing. >_> I blame your red font imitation of RDK.

 

[Dark.Pch]

excuse this double post. On my DSi and not home right now and seems I am limted to a certian amount of text.

I wanna add one more thing.Enough with the insults and stupid/troll post dealing with me. I am takling to you people calmy and with respected. So do the same and quit the BS. You are not funny. Ones laughing are the ones hyping you up and wanna poke fun, thus you think you are funny. Truth is you are not.

This is why I just wanted to discuss this matter with the back room. Cause the rest of you are just acting stupid. End it already.

EDIT-Nvm ,some jst saved me from double posting.

 

[Shaya]

Lol Dark Peach.

"Ike, ganon, bowser".

Ability to kill doesn't just mean moves with super power.
Snake's fsmash has huge power, so does Dedede, when people talk about how good they are at killin do they even mention these moves? No.

DK is great at killing because he
a) MANY MANY kill moves
b) MANY MANY FAST KILL MOVES
c) MANY HARD TO PUNISH KILL MOVES
d) MANY VERY LONG RANGED KILL MOVES
e) KILL MOVES WITH SUPER ARMOR
f) KILL MOVES KILL MOVES KILL MOVES
g) KILL MOVES THAT COMBO FROM TRIPS/SIDE B GIMMICK COMBOS, THAT DONKEY KONG HAS EASY OPTIONS OF GAINING.

What is there to argue that "who cares", DK's kiling ability is ****ing amazing. He's probably second after LUIGI in 'real' kill potential; but DK also has super range, super armor and super easy to use moves that are guaranteed set ups into these kill moves! "Oh but Peach is still better"!?!!
What the **** are you smoking Dark Peach to try and say Peach can disregard this in a tier list discussion (remember, Tier lists are going from ABILITIES, then match ups (LOL GAY HARD COUNTERS) then tournament viability).

Peach doesn't have the ability to completely zone the ground in a safe manor; Peach doesn't have guaranteed safe kill move set ups, Peach has a much harder time recovering, escaping juggles. Peach does have GREAT damage output however. And arguing about aerial prowress is not going to be easy.

DK is simply a better character; he has it easier, he has it better in just about every way -> Peach has shortfalls that can be come over, but they're still shortfalls.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Enough. You fail to get the point one again and all you worry about is killing.

I explain the issue with her killing and what she can do. Now quit with it already. Characters that are under Peach kill better than her.

How about you boys look in her much more then this. You seriously don't get it.

 

[Zankoku]

Really? The only two characters I can think of below her that kill "better" than her are Fox and Luigi.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Really? The only two characters I can think of below her that kill "better" than her are Fox and Luigi.

Zelda
Ike
Ganon
Wolf ( I think)
PT Trainer

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Zelda
Ike
Ganon
Wolf ( I think)
PT Trainer
Ness( F#### Bthrow)

Fixed that for you .

 

[Mr.E]

All of Ness' aerials kill as well, except his super-annoying, damage-racking FAir. Anyway, the only characters I can think of below her that kill "worse" than her are perhaps the bottom three, assuming Ankoku's use of quotes implies that he was also accounting for ability to rack up damage, perhaps also ease of use or likelihood of being stale of the actual kill moves available.

In related news, Peach has to "abuse" her FAir. Peach can't space worth a **** outside of her FAir, basically requiring its consistent use and making it no better a kill option than her weaker kill moves once that time comes. That's not a player flaw, that's a character flaw.

Also, I only now realized the irony behind me old Peach avatar. I also know "irony" is not the correct word to use in the previous sentence and I don't really care.

 

[Shaya]

Dark Peach... I think you are the one who doesn't get it.

Donkey Kong kills better than Peach.
Just because characters such as Ike, Ganon, Zelda have POWERFUL moves, doesn't mean they KILL better than Peach or any other character. Ganon isn't going to be HITTING with his kill moves, Zelda's hugely powerful kill moves are hard to hit with, and her other ones can be SDI'd out of! Ike relies on his huge range and opponent MISTAKES for the kill.
Donkey Kong kills better than all those characters you listed.
I think you need to stop being so naive and arrogant.

I'd be happy to argue that Peach kills better with Ganon; you know, with a long ranged auto cancellable fair, powerful up smash (even if it's hard to hit with, it's easier to hit with than just about anything Ganon has!), and turnips/bombs on random occurance. Peach kills better than Ganon.
Yet you list Ganon as one of thoes characters who are lower in the list than Peach but are good killers...

How about you incapable debaters look into the REAL MEANING OF "kill ability" more than "OMG GaNON's B MOVE KILLS AT LIKE 20%!". You seriously don't get it.

Once you concede on killing ability, which DEFINITELY is taken into consideration in a tier list based on CHARACTERS ABILITIES, MATCH UPS, AND TOURNAMENT VIABILITY (subset of match ups/current metagame), then we can properly go over your whole spacing argument.

 

[Emblem Lord]

DK has much better pokes and close range zoning then Peach. He kills better and lives longer and just gets **** done more efficiently.

 

[Jupz]

Imo Pit is better then Peach because of his fast and high priority smashes and an excellent projectile. He can punish peoples approaches. He can gimp decently and his uair eats up most dairs from below. DK is even better imo. He has insane range, great tilts and B moves and can kill really early.

 

[Dark.Pch]

In related news, Peach has to "abuse" her FAir. Peach can't space worth a **** outside of her FAir, basically requiring its consistent use and making it no better a kill option than her weaker kill moves once that time comes. That's not a player flaw, that's a character flaw.

Who, who in the world said You have to abuse her fair? I can space like a God and not have to use that move to do it. She has more spacing options than that one move:

Bair
Nair (Yes I am serious ask NinjaLink how I spaced the hell out of him with this move. wether short hopping or ground floating
Ftilt
Dtilt (plus I can slide back to add spacing x2? What????????)

You don't have to abuse that move, get your spacing up with Peach or learn more about it.

Again its the players fault for not playing and thinking on point, not the character.

Dark Peach... I think you are the one who doesn't get it.

Donkey Kong kills better than Peach.
Just because characters such as Ike, Ganon, Zelda have POWERFUL moves, doesn't mean they KILL better than Peach or any other character. Ganon isn't going to be HITTING with his kill moves, Zelda's hugely powerful kill moves are hard to hit with, and her other ones can be SDI'd out of! Ike relies on his huge range and opponent MISTAKES for the kill.
Donkey Kong kills better than all those characters you listed.
I think you need to stop being so naive and arrogant.

I'd be happy to argue that Peach kills better with Ganon; you know, with a long ranged auto cancellable fair, powerful up smash (even if it's hard to hit with, it's easier to hit with than just about anything Ganon has!), and turnips/bombs on random occurance. Peach kills better than Ganon.
Yet you list Ganon as one of thoes characters who are lower in the list than Peach but are good killers...

How about you incapable debaters look into the REAL MEANING OF "kill ability" more than "OMG GaNON's B MOVE KILLS AT LIKE 20%!". You seriously don't get it.

Once you concede on killing ability, which DEFINITELY is taken into consideration in a tier list based on CHARACTERS ABILITIES, MATCH UPS, AND TOURNAMENT VIABILITY (subset of match ups/current metagame), then we can properly go over your whole spacing argument.

I'm gonna explain this one more time cause you always turn it into something that I am not even getteing at. peach has trouble killing, people go on and on about it so damm much and don't give 2 craps about anything else, that is the first thing I hear come out of peoples mouths. DK kills better, No, ya think? Ok, w/e it's freaking obvious. People went on about her killing and I explained about it like 100 times arleady and that is the only thing they go on about this character so much. And they should not cause there is more than just this crap people cry about, and that is my point in terms of the killing on Peach. Got that, Ok, moving on.

And from what you just said about Ganon.....I'm not even gonna get into it with you on this one.................

 

[Shaya]

DK has much better pokes and close range zoning then Peach. He kills better and lives longer and just gets **** done more efficiently.

No no no! You cannot such say things as probably some lower tiered character also has such qualities, so it shouldn't effect the tier list in any shape or form! Even if Donkey Kong has cumalative GREAT qualities, IT SHOULDNT MATTER AT ALL!

Peach has ways around not having better pokes and close range zoning! And as such things shouldn't be considered for a character's placement in the tier list (It should be ordered by who has the coolest hair!). Peach having ways around weaknesses definitely means that she is better than Donkey Kong who doesn't have that weakness or need to overcome said weakness AT ALL!


Oh, and wee, he admits DK kills better.
Let's forget the whole "DK killing better shouldnt matter in the tier list placement", and get onto the whole zoning thing. DK has it easier because he has better tools. THE END.

 

[Browny]

idk... I think ganons dash attack and uair (if its ever fresh, which its not) are better KO moves than anything peach has

 

[Dark.Pch]

No no no! You cannot such say things as probably some lower tiered character also has such qualities, so it shouldn't effect the tier list in any shape or form! Even if Donkey Kong has cumalative GREAT qualities, IT SHOULDNT MATTER AT ALL!

Peach has ways around not having better pokes and close range zoning! And as such things shouldn't be considered for a character's placement in the tier list (It should be ordered by who has the coolest hair!). Peach having ways around weaknesses definitely means that she is better than Donkey Kong who doesn't have that weakness or need to overcome said weakness AT ALL!


Oh, and wee, he admits DK kills better.
Let's forget the whole "DK killing better shouldnt matter in the tier list placement", and get onto the whole zoning thing. DK has it easier because he has better tools. THE END.

And from this I am officially done talking to you on this matter. you wanna act stupid? Fine. I'm not gonna get into it with you. I'm being serious and calm and you wanna be an azz and try to be funny and cool for people.

This is why again I wanted to get into it with People in the SBR. Cause I knew members like you would be stupid and TRY to be funny. Now it is my turn to be stupid and leave you with this.

Stick to your own main and don't you dare come testing me about mines cause you seriously don't know anything about my character more than me or in general. As of now you don't exsist to avoid a fight or any more stupid crap and then have people sniff your butt and follow along. I said this in my other post for People to stop acting stupid and childish.

 

[Shaya]

Yet you're the one who acts like a brick wall to all arguments presented to you, whilst complaining others do the same...

I hate the irony, but fine. Arguing with you was mostly "no, that's wrong" anyway; it's hard to respect someone in a debate with qualities such as yours.

 

[Dark.Pch]

DK has much better pokes and close range zoning then Peach. He kills better and lives longer and just gets **** done more efficiently.

Dude, you ususally put up a better fight than this. From all that I have said and you give me this lil thing, You expect me to just by this? This is weak and does not prove a thing at all to even get one to think DK is better. Come on dude.

Come on dude, explain yourself or just don't bother.

 

[Levitas]

Dark Pch invalidates your arguments because "you don't even know"

lol

 

[M.K]

Dark Pch invalidates your arguments because "you don't even know"

lol

Oh my god, you must have like, read my mind. I was thinking this exact same line about this whole argument while reading the last page, and I literally lol'd when I saw this post.

Dark.Pch, the self-proclaimed Peach Encyclopedia of all Things Peachy!

Chapter 3, Peachs problems:

Entry: No, u kno what, she has no problems, u just dont understand her, u dont know what its like. u dont know her so stop talkin about her I DO KNO HER.

^All of the above said in a mexican chica woman accent.

EDIT: And I do think Peach is a good dark horse character that deserves high placings, but Dark.Pch, you are going about this way too stubbornly.

 

[Shaya]

Dark Pch invalidates your arguments because "you don't even know"

lol

A completely unbiased argument, I know.

But the whole transition was Dark Pch going "Peach isn't low tier" (we know) when people brought up simple weaknesses,
then it went to "DK/Pit have things better", which was replied with "Pit sux", "Peach has better up close stuff..."
then it went to "better close up stuff..." should invalidate all other qualities a character has that is better than Peachs except for better up close when it comes to creating the order for a tie rlist...

The real flaw was
a) Ignoring the qualities that Donkey Kong and Pit have that constitute a good character, over some such areas where Peach has ARGUABLY better qualities.
b) Thinking that Peach actually DOES have better qualities in the areas listed.
c) Thinking the tier list should consider MORE of what Peach does well at, over other such qualities that DK and Pit have obviously better abilities. Just like how Peach is the centre of the meta game *cough Meta Knight*.

By the way, Spadefox has informed me that Peach is better than Meta Knight, I can understand this, as the tier list should be considered on the notion that Peach does really well up close! *sigh*

 

[Red Arremer]

You all have no idea, seriously. Peach has no weaknesses at all.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dude, you ususally put up a better fight than this. From all that I have said and you give me this lil thing, You expect me to just by this? This is weak and does not prove a thing at all to even get one to think DK is better. Come on dude.

Come on dude, explain yourself or just don't bother.

Better fight?

There ain't nothing to fight about.

Peach isn't better then DK or Pit. She doesn't have the tools.

It's that simple.

I won't debate this because it's not a debate. It's you moaning about how Peach is underrated.

Hell, she probably is, but that's what happens to mediocre characters.

They are underrated because no one gives a ****.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I Can clearly see why Peach got her spot on the tier list. You people don't take anything seriously with this character at all.

But this reminds me, I remember SOMEONE in the SBR making a stupid post saying screw the other character that are not high tier, who gives a **** about them, it is about the characters that matter.

So seeing all of this makes since, and then we have your typical posters like (seriously, do I need to point you boys out) that are just acting stupid when I am being serious and calm. It all makes sense.

I am strongly convinced, this community is filled with fools and people who are to bias up the butt to listen to anything and don't get what one is saying.

And since you people don't care, nether do I, so I'll just stop letting my honestly from holding me back from saying what is really on my mind. Being nice don't get you know where. So, I will flat out say this; There is not one person in this community that knows Peach more than me. Not one breathing soul.

Its all a damm joke to you are and being so bias. No wonder you guys act like you do or know lil to nothing with my character. Now I'm gonna be straight real, screw posting in a way that os calm and cool so people don't get the wrong idea to a point I had to sig a darn post of mine. Now lets see you boys getting on me now, but this time with a reason to do it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pit and DK are NOT better than Peach and I went into a freaking SAT Book of typing to state why. I brought in facts, clams and stuff about the character in general, even stuff most of you people did not know about. And me having to correct things that people say about Peach 100 times like her having to abuse her Fair and she can't space without it, with is BS. Then I gotta explain how she can and correct them. See how much people know.

Now what huh? I'm going overboard? This kind of post won't make people take me seriously and people will keep being dunce caps with thier post? idk what I am talking about, I need to calm down. Let's go then, this is the only thing that gets through to you people on this site, so be it.

Peach>DK/Pit. Dare anyone to tell me otherwise and watch me crush them and prove them wrong. Now I'm dead serious. Screw holding back on my words.

Better fight?

There ain't nothing to fight about.

Peach isn't better then DK or Pit. She doesn't have the tools.

It's that simple.

I won't debate this because it's not a debate. It's you moaning about how Peach is underrated.

Hell, she probably is, but that's what happens to mediocre characters.

They are underrated because no one gives a ****.

That's it? that is your poor azz reason for it. You can't even explain your damm self, nothing typical useless post from this site on Peach. Next.

 

[Levitas]

Generally, insisting that you are an unquestioned authority on *anything* will cause people to question you more than listen to you. Given that, and the fact that you're basically insulting everyone that is considered an authority, it's really easy to see why you're driving home the point that if anyone doesn't simply accept your conclusions (true or not), the most immediate and reliable result is you getting angry at them.

And no, despite ankoku's insistence, "you don't even know" is not a valid argument form.

 

[feardragon64]

Dark.Pch: Not to get involved or anything but you complain a lot that he doesn't give the reasons for it but you want to argue it. If you really want to get a response from people and actually debate things, realize the burden of proof lays with you. So it might behoove you to explain your position first. I'll admit, EL didn't really give much but he at least gave broad reasons why. If you disagree with those general broad ideas explain why?

I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong. I'm not even trying to bash you or anything. All I'm saying is it'll probably work out better if you want to have that discussion?

 

[Red Arremer]

And no, despite ankoku's insistence, "you don't even know" is not a valid argument form.

No. It's "you just doesn't know". Get ur fax str8.

 

[Ryusuta]

While I don't necessarily think that your claims are completely without merit, Dark (and believe me, I'm sticking my neck out by saying that), it's really insulting and frankly, somewhat absurd to say that the only reason people disagree with you is because every last one of them is somehow "less informed" than you. This is especially true because a good deal of the people that have commented on your statements are experienced competitive and semi-competitive players themselves.

Emblem Lord put it best. Mediocre characters ARE often underrated. As a Yoshi and Pokemon Trainer main, I know this as well as anyone. People always have a tendency to exaggerate the weaknesses of characters like that without keeping them in the proper perspective.

HOWEVER...

The flip side of that coin is that a lot of people that main these characters have an equal tendency to be overprotective of them and downplay weaknesses that should be legitimately considered.

What you have to remember is that there's a difference between saying "Peach has exhibited less overall potential and has more flaws as a character than these characters," and saying "OMG PEACH SUX UL NEVAR WIN WITH HER!!!1" I don't recall anyone saying Peach sucks (though it could have been mentioned facetiously at some point). She isn't a terrible character. But the fact is that DK and Pit have the match-ups, the statistics, and the tournament results that are ALL better than Peach's in general.

You sit here and say "Well, you just aren't listening to me," because you really believe that's the case. But see, there is a certain psychology to forum discussions. By constantly berating people, you give them very little reason to give your words any special attention. And even more so, you have to remember that even though YOU understand what you're driving at when you say something, you might not be explaining your points in such a way that other people can get behind.

Anyway, I hope that makes some sense to you. I posted this after working an overnight shift, so I should really think about heading to bed at some point. Catch ya later!

 

[Shaya]

This is depressing... BUT.

Dark Pch, your entire argument is FULL of BIAS. AS A RESULT your argument is borderline comedy due to 'lulz', I mean DRAMATIC IRONY (as this whole thing plays out).

Because I just doesn't know Peach as well as you do, does not mean that I don't know about her current state in the metagame, and when it comes down to it, she is LESS THAN DK and Pit. You can't handle the fact that people know ENOUGH about Peach to be able to make an educated hypothesis of her abilities, especially when she isn't "breaking the rules" (Like Wario did); and whilst Peach isn't LOW TIER due to some of her qualities, in a point per point basis of traits, DK is definitely better in just about every way measurable, and Pit is probably OVER ALL better in such a decider scheme as well.

Hence the greater consciousness of the SBR can recognise that whilst they may underestimate a character, at the current time in the current metagame, this other character has a greater influence.

But okay, continue to ignore everything everyone says, claiming they just doesn't know , continue to be so EXTREME in your arrogance that it's like you're LIEING, I can't even call what you're doing as being naive or ignorant...

Oh well.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Generally, insisting that you are an unquestioned authority on *anything* will cause people to question you more than listen to you. Given that, and the fact that you're basically insulting everyone that is considered an authority, it's really easy to see why you're driving home the point that if anyone doesn't simply accept your conclusions (true or not), the most immediate and reliable result is you getting angry at them.

And no, despite ankoku's insistence, "you don't even know" is not a valid argument form.

Is that so? Maybe I am tired if being calm and stating my stuff to people and they wanna act 6 years below their age. I try to show as much respect as possible and people wanna be a-holes? I did nothing wrong, people wanna act stupid, so why the hell should I watch what I say? Why should I keep being calm and cool with my post? The hell with that now. I'm now holding back my opinions and how I feel anymore, you boys don't like it? Tough.

I said all this On why Peach is better and explained myself and reason for it. The rest say DK is better and can hardly do that as much as I have, just bring weak crap too the table like Emblem lord. The Hell is that, and I am in the wrong? Don't give me that.

BTW, your rank is pretty funny, wonder why that happened. This community is a mess.

 

[Levitas]

When did I ever express an opinion on whether you were right or wrong?