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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

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Darknid

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However, we're discussing this in terms of the official ruleset, which doesn't ban either.


"Ifs" and "withouts" aren't really important, I can think of a lot of characters that would have much better match-ups against Falco without his laser, but that's the way the game is.

The fact that Atlantic North banned something without legitimate justification doesn't change the way things actually are, the standing infinite and small-step chaingrab are not ban-worthy.
lasers aren't banworthy nor banned anywhere, the infinites are.

Also, don't turn this into an argument about whether or not the infinite should be banned, because it never gets anywhere. Life lesson 1. People are idiots.

On DK:

Overall, DK probably has

The most killing power in the game(and it's efficient unlike the other contenders, ganon and ike)

DK is also the hardest character to kill in any direction.

He also probably has the best range in the game overall. He has great speed and agility, combine that with great range and you probably have the best spacing character in the game.

Great mobility. Good recovery. Great gimping game. Great grab game. Great ledge options. idk what else you could ask for?

On Pit vs Peach: A good Pit can damage you faster than a good Peach, and also kills earlier, camps better, has a better recovery. Probably worse for spacing and up close, though.
 

Ryusuta

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If you REALLY want to get technical. White is actually ALL the colors, so everyone using anything other than white is really just racist.
That's only in the spectrum of light, which is different from solid colors. In solids, white is the absence of light and black is all colors.
 

da K.I.D.

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On Pit vs Peach: A good Pit can damage you faster than a good Peach, and also kills earlier, camps better, has a better recovery. Probably worse for spacing and up close, though.
Peach has much better damage racking potential than pit does.
While Pit does kill earlier, he does have slight killing issues.
Do people still think Pits arrows are some God tier camping tool? Cus from my PoV most of the characters above him have better camping tools than he does...

Do pits arrows explode and damage you when you try to attack him?
Do arrows have transcendant priority?
can he fire off two of them in one SH?
Do they make people trip?
Do they combo into kill moves?
Can he have free movement while using them?
Can he force people to take dmg. or get hit by them even when they are defended against? (think glide tossing down under a persons shield, or shielded glide toss to grab)

Im pretty sure the answer to all of these questions is no, which indicates to me that pits camping game, all things considered, is pretty lack luster

all in all, I think peach is a better character than pit, but not better than DK
 

adumbrodeus

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lasers aren't banworthy nor banned anywhere, the infinites are.
Lasers cause a lot more characters to die against Falco then the "infinites" do. As an infinite, it's only notable in one match-up (in that it has a large effect on the match-up ratio), and that's DK. The percents that it actually is usable on Mario, Luigi, and Samus are already kill percents.

As a small-step chaingrab, it only effects two match-ups, Bowser and DK.

Realistically, that isn't characters rendered non-viable to warrant a ban. Mk is FAR worse.

Also, don't turn this into an argument about whether or not the infinite should be banned, because it never gets anywhere. Life lesson 1. People are idiots.
Unfortunately, tru dat.

I think that if this could be talked about in a mature manner, at the very least, we'd get somewhere on it. I feel like arguing both ways is arguing against a brick wall.

*Cosigns*

Tourney results don't agree though, unfortunately.
Is undecided, they're all good characters though.
 

adumbrodeus

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What the h***? Are you out of your mind? Black is all the colors mixed together -_-...
Actually, white would be more properly be called a mixture of all colors.

Black absorbs all colors so nothing reaches your eye.

White is the opposite, it reflects all colors so every color reaches your eye.

In practice, the effect of black can be created by mixing all colors together so everything is absorbed, but in terms of the light rays, white is all colors, not black.
 

crazycrackers

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What the h***? Are you out of your mind? Black is all the colors mixed together -_-...

And Dark Peach...you fail at debating for your main ;).
Actually, "white" light is composed of all colors, although its not ACTUALLY white. Thats more-so just a term. Black is actually considered "the absence of color", but that is a relatively artificial term as well. "white" contains all colors, including colors that we cannot see while "black" absorbs them.

Also, I agree with DK>Peach>Pit
 

Lord Exor

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This is outrageous! Meta Knight should be higher on the list! I can't believe this!
 

Dark.Pch

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Peach isn't in the same league as DK. DK's only problem is D3, otherwise he could easily be top 5. He contends(I never call a MK matchup even unless it's Snake or Wario..) with MK, beats Snake, beats Marth, beats GnW, beats ICs, beats ROB, beats Lucario and is even with Falco, Diddy, Pika, Oli, Kirby, Pit(possible advantage), ZSS, etc.

Who outside of top tier has credentials like that? He has 2 bad matchups in high tier(aside from MK which is closer to even), and those bad matchups are characters who infinite him. Without the infinites, they are no more than 60-40 advantages.
Peach also beats all these characters and match ups are no worst than 60-40 as well? This is not a good example.

I have one thing to say, Dark Peach, or whatever your name is, can you please stop typing in color? It's not cool and it annoys the heck out of me.
No. I type how I want. You don't like it? There is an ignore list on this site. Go play around with it.

Okay so...why should peach be higher than Pit and Donkey Kong? I'm too curious about this.
I'm tired of repeating myself. You look back a few pages and read, if you are too lazy too then oh well.

When the infinite is banned, the smallstep CG is also banned, leaving only the regular CG. Funny how DK and D3 is even even with the ****ed CG that deals massive damage..lol..without it, it'd easily be a **** matchup in DK's favor.

There's also no way Peach is better than Pit and DK. Don't listen to Dark Pch, I've noticed that he's a complete homer.
So you first bring something weak to state that DK is better then you insult me. Smooth move dude.

Although I'm a Peach main, I have to admit that Donkey Kong is overall better. Yes, he has that stupid infinite against D3, but otherwise he's a great character. He has tons of range and power, and his attacks aren't even that slow. His tilts, Bair and DSmash aren't slow at all, in fact. Plus he has a good throw game and can survive just about forever thanks to his heavy weight and up B momentum cancelling.

Don't get me wrong, I think Peach is a pretty good character, but she has some major flaws which mean she won't raise higher than low B Tier in the near future. Whichever way you put it, she has trouble killing, her range isn't great, and she gets star KO'd WAY too easily. Oh, and her aerial defense is lame too.

However, IMO Pit and Peach are almost equal in terms of ability, but Peach is ever so slightly better.
I know I already went through this one already and countered it.

What the h***? Are you out of your mind? Black is all the colors mixed together -_-...

And Dark Peach...you fail at debating for your main ;).
You fail at trolling.
 

Ryusuta

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The ignore list thing is really pointless, seeing as you still see where they posted and you still see people quoting the content of their posts.
 

Dark.Pch

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Wait, what? Peach is considered a 40:60 against Marth and Snake.
No Marth and Snake having the advantage.

And Marth and Snake are played a fair bit, especially Snake.

lol gg Peach.
Look at what I just said. Good first time for everything. I am about to use a net phrase on you ready?

lol, gg Zelda player. Now can you hop off my junk and stop being one with the crowd and sniffing others butts? Or is that too hard for you.


-> Peach can overcome her killing potential:

Donkey Kong doesn't need to overcome such issues, he's a killing machine. Donkey Kong is better here.

-> Peach is better at spacing

With Donkey Kong having better range, better aerial mobility, a REAL mid air jump, down b to completely zone the ground, and bair covering most aerial approaches, it is hard for Peach to argue that she has superior spacing ability or "up close" ability. Especially with DK's amazingly fast dtilt with it's high tripping chance, and fast and mostly safe ftilt for a 'gtfo'.
It is hard for me to see anything Dark Peach has said that can over come these qualities.

-> No one in the SBR knows Peach
I bet you there's barely, if any, real DK mains in the SBR as well; whilst there is Edrees (I believe) and Sky in the SBR... I guess these people dont know Peach; I guess these people dont know Peach well enough to have at least Sky agree DK is better.
But people can see that as a character, where DK is made solo unviable, in a similar way as Peach (you can show match ups all day, get both sides to agree... Marth, MK, Snake, HAI!); DK is the better character.

-> What about Pit!?
Better recovery, better killing potential, similar damage potential, slightly weaker spacing ability, no characters out to make him 'really' unviable, MUCH BETTER camping potential (++ IN BRAWL METGAMEZ).

This is the perspective of the current view of the metagame in my eyes; you saying otherwise holds little when there is no definitive tournament or otherwise information to back it [Peach] up.
Ganon,Bowser, Ike, just to name a few don't need to overcome killing problems. Yet they are not all that. And there is a reason for that. See what I mean,It's not all about killing. People need to seriously stop making this just a big down fail with Peach already. This is the first thing I hear over, and over and over again. Go get at the other characters that have killing problems so much and then come back to me. Go on and on about them.

Peach has Good evasion due to her spacing and floating (though I don't even have to float to have all of this, but if I did it increases my evasion and spacing even more. Peach is faster with her spacing and better upclose than DK is. He can have all the range he wants. Again you let things like this take over everything and ignore other stuff. This is not how you get an understanding of what a character can do. But since you wanna play this game; If Peach wanted to be a real pain, When I am in a characters face, all I have to do is use 2 moves that cover both air and ground assults to stop you deal. Jab (ground assult, 2 frame move) Nair (Assult, 2 frame move with Inv frames. 3 in the front, 2 in the back. That is why it is a mean combo breaker) I have 2 quick air and ground options that are quick to stopping nearly everything. And her jab leads to set ups.

I am not too sure about Edreese. I'm not gonna disrespect that man, but the same time just because I respect the dude, don't mean I am not gonna be honest. If anyone wanna to take this the wrong way then fine. It's my opinion, and not gonna have people not let me be straight up real. I'll Start with Sky. First off, I kid you not, Sky does not know more about Peach than I do. He knows that and others sure as hell know that. I dare him to come here and say that and prove me wrong. The day he does that is the day I win Three stock M2K in the finals of a Big tournament. It's a Fact, he does not know more about this character than I do. He is always saying Peach can't do this and that and is like "OMG Hylian is god with G&W, there is no way a Peach can beat him or G&W in general, you are all crazy" Give me a break with this please.

Edreese does know his stuff, but I'll be straight honest. I'll go and say there are somethings with Peach that I know that he does not when it comes to match ups or things about Peach in general. I have posted on match ups and giving advice on them to him and other people cause they had trouble and did not know what to do. Some match ups in the Peach boards I stood quit in cause I hardly play them, like Wario for an example. Thats where he and the other Peach players have me. But as a whole with Peach, I know more. If I wanted to be cheap, I just type 2 liners of advice or one paragraph of it or about this character. I don't do that, I state what I know. ALL of it. I had to Right a book report on snake and Falco To explain this match up. I had to go into Frame data to explain pikachu as well as right a book report. I think I did this with Marth as well. And character talk or advice with Peach I get into it is never cheap or short. Word knows to get about about all this character can do so people won't think this and that, and the typical bias of Peach that has not seem to have ended can finally end.

About Pit. If his meta game is usually Camping then it is bad. Do you not look in the Peach boards? Every day there is something new with her. Her meta game slowly grows. New tolls and options for Peach come to place Things get planted and it then grows. Her meta games improves lil by lil while characters like Pit's stay the same. Camping is all I here. When His camping (when one is not annoyed and thinking) wont even fase To Pit's camping. If camping is all he got and I shut that down (which is not hard) then what? You tell me what else he got. What makes him so up there. And Bring me these results that Pit has done better than Peach.


 

aeghrur

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So do you admit that peach has a killing problem then? because your posts don't have any type of rebuttals to it. you're just circumventing the argument.

:093:
 

Dark.Pch

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So do you admit that peach has a killing problem then? because your posts don't have any type of rebuttals to it. you're just circumventing the argument.

:093:
Ok then sir. kinda tired of being a lil playful in my post so people don't think I am always serious in them cause, well as my sig says. So I'll just straight up Post. Now as for your questinon.

Yes Peach is not one of the best killers. But I tell you this, Nether are characters like Falco. Yet cause there is a lot more to this character, he can make up for it. I'll let Falco players explain that situation.

First in the words of Mikey Lenetia:

"One thing to use an aggressive style is to know EXACTLY when moves will work and when they won't, and not limiting yourself to only a few moves because of them not doing a lot of damage.

Jabs, dair, turnips, dash attack, grabs, everything HAS to be used so that when you finally get around to the higher percents, they'll do a heck of a lot more. Don't worry about using powerful moves, but... don't abuse them. What I mean by what I say is that you have to have a mix of the weaker attacks that don't send far(including down smash, I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, it's useful!) with the ones that do.

That way, even though you're aggressive and moving in and out of range, they really won't know what's going to come out. Also, the most important point that goes for Peach, in my opinion, across the board. Just because they're at percents that things like fair and usmash will kill doesn't mean it's then time to break out the killers. One, to keep them guessing even more and making it actually easier to land a fresh killer. Two, you also build enough damage so something they don't expect, like say uair, will kill.
"

Now words from me:

Save your moves that you need for killing. Use lots of jabs, get damage off of grabbing. When you grab them don't always launch them so fast. Kick them a few good times then toss them. N-air cant kill so well so use that alot. Dair helps since its not a Kill move. Space dtilts. And turnips. Once you get them to a good % Now you can fely on your kills moves like Fsmash and Up smash. Your fair and bairs, even upairs. uptilt as well. Try to save your most important moves to kill. Cause when you get them to that good %, all of your kill moves will be at full power. And it will be less of a struggle to kill.

Also Her upthrow can be a good tool for Killing.

"What, an Upthrow? the hell, How, that throw sucks and people hardly use it."

Oh? Well let me explain. At 50% and over, you really can't combo into anything. if you was to Fthrow them and Back throw them, then what. They are out of your range. and have to repeat the process of approaching them again. When you up throw them, They are over you, you can use turnips to at least hit them, or make it harder for them to touch the floor. And set up to land an attack on them. This is the more better ways to hit someone after a throw. This is center stage though. Near the edge you can just toss them out. but with some characters, Like DDD, DK, you are not gonna kill them off of a throw. So the hell with that right? Toss them up and get extra hits of of turnips, and even if that dont hit, they have to worry about evading them and then you hitting them while trying to land saftley to the floor. They will still Be in your attack range for turnips and even finishers more than any other throw at 50%+

Also she is good at racking up damage in w ways. Her Attacks and turnips. If you are gonna spam anything. it should not be your fair. it should be:

-Nair
-Dair
-Dtilt
-Jab
-Dsmash
-Turnips
-Grabs
-Up-B, used right and I am dead serious. 12% of damage I believe and good knock back at the final hit so you can't get punished for it that easy.
-Bair (sometimes.)
Uptilt (sometimes)
Uair (sometimes)

Now look at this list here. What is missing from here? Thats right, her kill options:
Fair
Fsmash
Upsmash.

The moves that have (somestimes) in them are moves that can kill as well but sometines are used to rack up damage, like within comboes. Now when I say spamm I don't mean be a dunce with the moves. uses them wall and with a brain to get some hits off. Then you still got your kill moves to kill earlier than expected. You can't just play Peach to play her. if your character can't just boldly kill, you can;t just go swinging attacks and playing so typical. This is why Peach does not get anywhere and people don't really see what she is about. Thus she is bias on her self and against characters. As well as people saying the typical stuff about her for over a year now.

"how can Peach rack up damage quick and early?"

Besides the chain grab we have:

Basic combos

-Dthrow>uptilt
-Dair>Nair
-Dair>Uair
-Dair>Fair
-Dair>Bair
-Jab>Dtilt
-Jab>grab
-Jab>Nair
-Jab>Nair
-Turnip>fair
-Turnip>Nair

Advance combos ( you would need good control of Peach and her floating as well)-

*= Depends on where your enemy is/goes after the first or second hit of the combo

-*Dair>Dair>Fair
-Dair>Dair
-Dair>Dair>Dair
-Dair>Dair>Dair>Uair
-*Dair>Dair>Dair>Uair>Up-B
-*Dair>Dair>falling Dair>Usmash/Utilt/Up-B
-*Dthrow>Ftilt>Uptilt/Usmash/Up-B
-*Dthrow>Ftilt>Jab>grab>Dthrow>Utilt/Uair/Up-B
-Bair>grab
-Fair>Jab>grab> (look at the list of what you can do after grabs)
-*Falling Dair>Jab>(look at the list of what you can do after jabs/grabs)
-*Falling Dair> Usmash/Utilt/Up-B/Nair/Bair

Now look at the list of moves I said to use alot that have (sometimes) in them. Then look at the combo list. Makes since to why it has (sometimes) next to them right you might already be using the move to get damage. So the won' be fresh for kill. other times they will.

Peach is like Chess, you just CAN'T go in there and say "ok, I wanna get this pawn with my rook" When there is a pawn right by it that can take you out. Now in Brawl terms.

You can just go swinging all your kill moves and all. You can get all the hits you wan't. Then when you get to that kill %, you are in trouble, you can't kill them at % they should be dead. And that sucks for you, and you already not a solid killer. oh man. then your enemy is gonna take you out easy. So you have to think how you gonna keep them kill moves fresh, and get your damage by new means. Peach and chess have something in common so you know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thing that finishes up about Peach and killing. Ok, so what else is next that I have to explain?
That takes care of that one.
 

aeghrur

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Why that argument doesn't work:
You said peach isn't a great killer (obviously)
You compared her to falco, who has a lot of trouble killing, giving the implication that peach can't kill.
You basically said peach only has 3 kill moves, one of which is almost always stale.
And the rest is just saying, "well, she can rack up damage fast" Okay, well, I'm not asking if she is a good damage racker or not
So, what is it about the three kill moves that disproves the argument that she has trouble killing?

:093:
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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While my Pit experience is pretty much limited to cross country wifi I can sort of see how Peach can be better than Pit. Her aerial mobility makes for excellent baiting tactics. Pit can bait but it's more of a pressure based baiting system. Peaches baits are a mix of that and vulnerability baiting due to her float game. If I give Peach the edge I'd say it's due to the fact that she's better at moving about and can influence WHERE she tries to go for a KO giving her a little more leeway in actually killing at decent percents. I still disagree that she's better than DK though. DK's better. It's just when he does get countered he gets countered hard.
 

Dark.Pch

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Why that argument doesn't work:
You said peach isn't a great killer (obviously)
You compared her to falco, who has a lot of trouble killing, giving the implication that peach can't kill.
You basically said peach only has 3 kill moves, one of which is almost always stale.
And the rest is just saying, "well, she can rack up damage fast" Okay, well, I'm not asking if she is a good damage racker or not
So, what is it about the three kill moves that disproves the argument that she has trouble killing?

:093:
This just got interesting. Nice. Ok then

I brought up falco Cause he is not a solid killer. Yet he is a good character? And why is he a good character despite his killing problem? Now lets get someone who knows Falco 100% and state falco as a character. You get your answer that way. But that is my point.He is a good character and high tier material. His killing issue dod not Top him from getting that spot. That means there are things about him that back up for it, as I am explaining with Peach, But of course since it is Peach and bias, people just don't wanna listen and just keep going ob about the same thing for over a year. And don't even care to know what this girl can really do.

Peach has more than 3 kill moves, look at that post carefully. You and not understanding. See the moves where it says (sometimes)? That means you Can kill with that move but SOMETIMES you won't cause you might have absue them in combos. But you can only do combos to a certain % from there just dish out the moves you can't kill with (the moves I said to spam) and you moves should be refreshed.

Read that post carefully and understand what I am telling you.
 

Brinzy

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"Sniffing others butts"? Like whose?

Nobody was even talking about you. Note how I never said "Peach player", yet you still attacked.

Gogo Dark Pch.

Anyway, Marth and Snake do beat her, while they don't soundly beat DK. That's pretty significant and all I said. "No worse than 60-40" is fine on its own, except DK doesn't have solid disadvantages with those two.
 

aeghrur

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Okay, situational kill moves, great. Sonic has those too ya know.
We can possibly kill with out dair, uair, uthrow, and heck, even fair.
Do we count those as kill moves? No, so peach has 3 kill moves. The rest are situational. And heck, even fair should be listed under "sometimes" because sometimes, fair is decayed a lot no?

You missed my point on the falco thing. I understand that you're saying kill moves don't make the character. That doesn't mean peach can kill, nor that falco can kill. When you're making this comparison, you're not comparing character to character like falco to peach because let's face it, falco is much better and a comparison like that is laughable. No, instead, what you're comparing is how well each character kills, and in this case, peach seems to have kill moves just like falco. Sure, she can still be a good character, but that doesn't mean she can kill. Get it?

Btw, you never said anything about those kill moves that make them... reliable or unreliable

:093:
 

aeghrur

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OKAY, then you admit peach has a problem killing!
God. Why didn't you just answer that in the first place?

:093:
 

Dark.Pch

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Okay, situational kill moves, great. Sonic has those too ya know.
We can possibly kill with out dair, uair, uthrow, and heck, even fair.
Do we count those as kill moves? No, so peach has 3 kill moves. The rest are situational. And heck, even fair should be listed under "sometimes" because sometimes, fair is decayed a lot no?

You missed my point on the falco thing. I understand that you're saying kill moves don't make the character. That doesn't mean peach can kill, nor that falco can kill. When you're making this comparison, you're not comparing character to character like falco to peach because let's face it, falco is much better and a comparison like that is laughable. No, instead, what you're comparing is how well each character kills, and in this case, peach seems to have kill moves just like falco. Sure, she can still be a good character, but that doesn't mean she can kill. Get it?

Btw, you never said anything about those kill moves that make them... reliable or unreliable

:093:
Fair is not listed as (sometime) Cause that move is not really used as a combo finisher. And I already explained whay that move is stale alot. The players abuse it, thus make it stale. Who says you have to abuse that move so much? Who? You, dont have too. peach has other attacks than just that to be abused so much that it is stale early.

And you don't get it once again. Youcan't not even dare denie this dude has a killing problem. yet he makes up for it. I am not comparing these 2 characters. Falco is used as an exmaple of saying he can't kill well but there is alot more to falco that makes up for it.

Peach can't kill way but there is alot more to her that can make up for it. Obviously falco is a better character, YET, not the point I am getting at.


OKAY, then you admit peach has a problem killing!
God. Why didn't you just answer that in the first place?

:093:
Dude, I have been saying that this whole time. where have YOU been?
 

Commander_Beef

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Peach also beats all these characters and match ups are no worst than 60-40 as well? This is not a good example.



No. I type how I want. You don't like it? There is an ignore list on this site. Go play around with it.



I'm tired of repeating myself. You look back a few pages and read, if you are too lazy too then oh well.



So you first bring something weak to state that DK is better then you insult me. Smooth move dude.



I know I already went through this one already and countered it.



You fail at trolling.
Fair is not listed as (sometime) Cause that move is not really used as a combo finisher. And I already explained whay that move is stale alot. The players abuse it, thus make it stale. Who says you have to abuse that move so much? Who? You, dont have too. peach has other attacks than just that to be abused so much that it is stale early.

And you don't get it once again. Youcan't not even dare denie this dude has a killing problem. yet he makes up for it. I am not comparing these 2 characters. Falco is used as an exmaple of saying he can't kill well but there is alot more to falco that makes up for it.

Peach can't kill way but there is alot more to her that can make up for it. Obviously falco is a better character, YET, not the point I am getting at.
This just got interesting. Nice. Ok then

I brought up falco Cause he is not a solid killer. Yet he is a good character? And why is he a good character despite his killing problem? Now lets get someone who knows Falco 100% and state falco as a character. You get your answer that way. But that is my point.He is a good character and high tier material. His killing issue dod not Top him from getting that spot. That means there are things about him that back up for it, as I am explaining with Peach, But of course since it is Peach and bias, people just don't wanna listen and just keep going ob about the same thing for over a year. And don't even care to know what this girl can really do.

Peach has more than 3 kill moves, look at that post carefully. You and not understanding. See the moves where it says (sometimes)? That means you Can kill with that move but SOMETIMES you won't cause you might have absue them in combos. But you can only do combos to a certain % from there just dish out the moves you can't kill with (the moves I said to spam) and you moves should be refreshed.

Read that post carefully and understand what I am telling you.
Ok, my turn.

Peach has a problem killing as well. But what does she have to make up for it?

*points* at all the post I made about this 100 times.*
Fair is not listed as (sometime) Cause that move is not really used as a combo finisher. And I already explained whay that move is stale alot. The players abuse it, thus make it stale. Who says you have to abuse that move so much? Who? You, dont have too. peach has other attacks than just that to be abused so much that it is stale early.

And you don't get it once again. Youcan't not even dare denie this dude has a killing problem. yet he makes up for it. I am not comparing these 2 characters. Falco is used as an exmaple of saying he can't kill well but there is alot more to falco that makes up for it.

Peach can't kill way but there is alot more to her that can make up for it. Obviously falco is a better character, YET, not the point I am getting at.




Dude, I have been saying that this whole time. where have YOU been?
Ganon,Bowser, Ike, just to name a few don't need to overcome killing problems. Yet they are not all that. And there is a reason for that. See what I mean,It's not all about killing. People need to seriously stop making this just a big down fail with Peach already. This is the first thing I hear over, and over and over again. Go get at the other characters that have killing problems so much and then come back to me. Go on and on about them.

Peach has Good evasion due to her spacing and floating (though I don't even have to float to have all of this, but if I did it increases my evasion and spacing even more. Peach is faster with her spacing and better upclose than DK is. He can have all the range he wants. Again you let things like this take over everything and ignore other stuff. This is not how you get an understanding of what a character can do. But since you wanna play this game; If Peach wanted to be a real pain, When I am in a characters face, all I have to do is use 2 moves that cover both air and ground assults to stop you deal. Jab (ground assult, 2 frame move) Nair (Assult, 2 frame move with Inv frames. 3 in the front, 2 in the back. That is why it is a mean combo breaker) I have 2 quick air and ground options that are quick to stopping nearly everything. And her jab leads to set ups.

I am not too sure about Edreese. I'm not gonna disrespect that man, but the same time just because I respect the dude, don't mean I am not gonna be honest. If anyone wanna to take this the wrong way then fine. It's my opinion, and not gonna have people not let me be straight up real. I'll Start with Sky. First off, I kid you not, Sky does not know more about Peach than I do. He knows that and others sure as hell know that. I dare him to come here and say that and prove me wrong. The day he does that is the day I win Three stock M2K in the finals of a Big tournament. It's a Fact, he does not know more about this character than I do. He is always saying Peach can't do this and that and is like "OMG Hylian is god with G&W, there is no way a Peach can beat him or G&W in general, you are all crazy" Give me a break with this please.

Edreese does know his stuff, but I'll be straight honest. I'll go and say there are somethings with Peach that I know that he does not when it comes to match ups or things about Peach in general. I have posted on match ups and giving advice on them to him and other people cause they had trouble and did not know what to do. Some match ups in the Peach boards I stood quit in cause I hardly play them, like Wario for an example. Thats where he and the other Peach players have me. But as a whole with Peach, I know more. If I wanted to be cheap, I just type 2 liners of advice or one paragraph of it or about this character. I don't do that, I state what I know. ALL of it. I had to Right a book report on snake and Falco To explain this match up. I had to go into Frame data to explain pikachu as well as right a book report. I think I did this with Marth as well. And character talk or advice with Peach I get into it is never cheap or short. Word knows to get about about all this character can do so people won't think this and that, and the typical bias of Peach that has not seem to have ended can finally end.

About Pit. If his meta game is usually Camping then it is bad. Do you not look in the Peach boards? Every day there is something new with her. Her meta game slowly grows. New tolls and options for Peach come to place Things get planted and it then grows. Her meta games improves lil by lil while characters like Pit's stay the same. Camping is all I here. When His camping (when one is not annoyed and thinking) wont even fase To Pit's camping. If camping is all he got and I shut that down (which is not hard) then what? You tell me what else he got. What makes him so up there. And Bring me these results that Pit has done better than Peach.


You seriously need to calm down.
 

Ryusuta

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How does quoting her indicate that?

More to the point, what proof is it you want from her? Most of what I'm seeing here is entirely a matter of semantics.
 
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