The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[DMG]

Since Ally's soon to be MI, I gotta pull for him. So I'm callin' Snake.

Do I smell... a small wager?

Maybe? Perhaps?

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Do I smell... a small wager?

Maybe? Perhaps?

How many good Warios are even going to Gen? Besides Malcolm.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't need to know somebody to see that they're talking out their *** and being a general prick.

There's no "smoothness" to it.

But by all means, carry on.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Nanaki]

Since Ally's soon to be MI, I gotta pull for him. So I'm callin' Snake.

Going to have to agree here. Wario's good, but Snake's still just better.

 

[Brinzy]

I know who'll be more homosexual and annoying.

Not sure who'll place higher, though.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Snake. Snake's gonna take that **** all the WAY. Even if it's just a matter of representation. lol

 

[Zankoku]

Do I smell... a small wager?

Maybe? Perhaps?

Fifteen hundred Joshu Funbucks.

 

[DMG]

How many good Warios are even going to Gen? Besides Malcolm.

Lol the top 5 Wario's might be in attendance. Me, Reflex, Fiction, possibly someone like Quik, Hungr, PX if he has the time to come, etc.

Going to have to agree here. Wario's good, but Snake's still just better.

What if it comes down to Wario vs Snake?

I know who'll be more homosexual and annoying.

I can appreciate that answer.

Edit: 500 JOSHU FUN BUCKS? DOES THAT GET ME INTO THE FUN ZONE?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Snake. Snake's gonna take that **** all the WAY. Even if it's just a matter of representation. lol

I'm gonna have to agree with Terios on this one. Snake too good.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Edit: 500 JOSHU FUN BUCKS? DOES THAT GET ME INTO THE FUN ZONE?

No man. 1500 Joshu funbucks. **** just got real.

 

[Deathcarter]

Suddenly...

BEES!

lol Genesis is gonna be interesting, who do you guys think will get a higher spot: Wario or Snake? I vote Wario.

The answer is MK, obviously. You decided not to list him, but you know in your heart MK will take the top spot at Genesis (though I expect Wario, Snake, IC's, and Diddy to make it into the top 8).

Spoiler

Seriously though, it will be Anther. He is just too good. <3

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Lol the top 5 Wario's might be in attendance. Me, Reflex, Fiction, possibly someone like Quik, Hungr, PX if he has the time to come, etc.

Nice, that sounds hawt. Lol, etc.

Somehow I never heard of the last three you mentioned. D=

 

[Dark.Pch]

I agree, whether he's being dickly, lolful, sarcastic or whatever. It shouldn't really matter.

Anyway, he sorta gave points as to why Peach would be better, about 15-30 pages back. *doesn't remember exactly* >_>
I can see him just copy and pasting that a 3rd (or 4th?) time to answer this question. However, I don't think he ever gave reasoning as to what DK and Pit were lacking that would land them below Peach. =o

EDIT: Er... nevermind. I'm too slow...

I'll say it one more time then. and I'll take it slow and one character at a time. Let's start with DK. and I'll even type in white.

First off, the thing about Peach not being able to kill, enough already, seriously, enough. This does not exist anymore cause its just about in every excuse I hear. So scratch this out. Now for the real fight.

Peach is a quicker brawler up close. Wether taking it to ground floating, which brings her air game to the ground and brings more upclose combat to the ground. DK is not faster than Peach in fighting up close. And with all her fighting options when in ones face Makes her a solid fighter and not much to fear

Ok Has More range. Ok. Peach has range as well and faster at spacing than DK is. She Can be in someone and space the hell out of them and it be hard to get inside her cause Her spaced moves don't stay out for days. Also her air moves auto cancel. Ranges is not always the best choice for everything, for it can have its donwsides. Marth is a spacing God. But done right Marth can even have a hard time getting a clean shot on Peach. She has good range on her air attacks and speed with the spaceing.

Oh and don't get me started on her ground spacing which is a mixture of evasion. And her Dtilt slide is a good toll for that. Dtilt somone and if they sheild it you can pull away to a Fsmash or Ftilt or jab if they wanna try and counter attack. If not get your space from the slide and get a turnip. Safe hit and run with a barrier or an extra toll you get (which is a turnip when moving back.

Peach has better evasion than DK, He is a Big as monkey who is not hard to hit. Even with that air speed he has. Her quick spacing makes it hard to hit (If the Peach player is great at spacing) So you can retreat and space to get space and not take a hit. Platforms help increase her evasion as well. This is why I love battlefield against Hard match ups. Cause you will need to evade alot.

Peach has alot of Approaches and good ones. More than DK. And of course with spacing, hard to punish or get baited into the approaches and take a hit.

- Fair
- FC>Fair
- Dair
- FC>Dair
- FC>Nair
- Turnip>Fair
- FC>Turnip>Fair
- Bair
- Glide tossing
- Nair

Advance approaches:

- Glide toss> FC>Nair
- Glide toss>reverse Bair
- Glide toss>Nair
- Glide toss>Grab
- Reverse Glide toss> Dsmash or Fsmash
- Reverse Glide toss> Bair

She is one of the best characters in the game when it comes to approaching.

Turnips. Turnips are not a weapon for damage. You just don't get one and toss them hoping to hit one. Turnips are a damm mindgame. Just by holding a turnip in your hand. You are already toying with your opponents head. When you get one, it buts your opponent on the defense cause they do not wanna get hit. You did not have to do anything to them to screw with them. Turnips are a tool to mess with the mind and THEN get your damage off.

"pluck turnip"
"toss it"

NO!^ There is about maybe 6 steps before you toss it. Also Peach can fight with items in her hand via floating. And she can bring that Floating to the ground for more of a confusing. Your opponent won't be able to tell when you will toss the damm turnip. She is like the drunken master. Maybe His wife, w/e. Just holding that thing in your hand can lead to so much confusing. Hell, might even confuse the hell out of you. Yes it is that serious.

Peach has More recovery Option Than DK. All he has is Up-B. Peach has:

Up-B (obviously)
F-B
Float
Toad

"But his Up-B Has super Armor and hard to edge guard"

Good things always have a downside to it. Done right you are able to force the player to a point where he has to aim for the edge or the stage. And when going to the stage, you can chase DK and punish upon his landing. And He can't turn the other way to escape. The momentum change is so slow.

"But Peach is a sitting duck when she up-B. She is a goner"

Bad things always have an upside to it.

Done right. You can recover to the stage without ever having to up-B. I don't ever burn my jump unless I have too. Even when it looks like I should, I don't and I can make it back. Also when Peach gets the chance, she should ALWAYS recover High. F-B and toad help with this. Oh and guess what. From this you still have 2 recovery options left. Second Jump and up-B.

Also with her Up-B you can open and close it really quick and do quick momentum changes. Do that trick Excel spoke about with the C-stick. Also U can use toad to air stall to slightly increase evasion and land safe to the ground.


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Are people with me so far, any questions, concerns, if not then we are done with this, Peach>DK unless someone can beat this and tell me otherwise. And honestly, I don't think anyone can.

 

[DMG]

The answer is MK, obviously. You decided not to list him, but you know in your heart MK will take the top spot at Genesis (though I expect Wario, Snake, IC's, and Diddy to make it into the top 8).

Lol I asked for a comparison of those two characters only and out of those two, who would get a higher spot?

It would be like me asking who would place higher at Genesis: Zelda or Bowser? And someone goes "MK obviously" lol. I'm just asking people who they think will place higher than the other, not who will win the tournament.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Lol I asked for a comparison of those two characters only and out of those two, who would get a higher spot?

It would be like me asking who would place higher at Genesis: Zelda or Bowser? And someone goes "MK obviously" lol. I'm just asking people who they think will place higher than the other, not who will win the tournament.

Didn't you know? The answer to "who will place higher" is always MK, no other character can ever place after all.

 

[-Wolverine]

First off, the thing about Peach not being able to kill, enough already, seriously, enough. This does not exist anymore cause its just about in every excuse I hear. So scratch this out. Now for the real fight.

This might just be me, but if you're going to ask people to not look at this idea, you should probably show Peach being able to kill. Idk anything about Peach, so I have no idea if she can kill well or not, but you should still mention kill options and explain them if you want to prove that she can kill.

 

[DMG]

Peach has trouble killing.

This is not debatable. If you say otherwise, I might actually have to explain why she is so bad at killing.

 

[swordgard]

Peach has trouble killing.

This is not debatable. If you say otherwise, I might actually have to explain why she is so bad at killing.

Please do =D



Stale moves and bad finishers anyone?

 

[PhantomX]

Nice, that sounds hawt. Lol, etc.

Somehow I never heard of the last three you mentioned. D=

Two of them barely post, and the last one likes to fly under the radar.

 

[Dark.Pch]

This might just be me, but if you're going to ask people to not look at this idea, you should probably show Peach being able to kill. Idk anything about Peach, so I have no idea if she can kill well or not, but you should still mention kill options and explain them if you want to prove that she can kill.

I said that line because that is the first thing people go for and they use that as a major problem to bring her down so much. Like other characters have trouble. Yet there is more that the character that that still makes them good and makes up for it. But of course with Peach, people fail to look past that. So that is why I said that.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think I've moved past being a douchebag towards you, DP.

(Long ago, as a matter of fact.)

So I will ask you, kindly, to please elaborate further on what tools Peach has to effectively KO. I can't really say that I've played against a Brawl Peach (or at least, not a good one).

Smooth Criminal

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think I've moved past being a douchebag towards you, DP.

(Long ago, as a matter of fact.)

So I will ask you, kindly, to please elaborate further on what tools Peach has to effectively KO. I can't really say that I've played against a Brawl Peach (or at least, not a good one).

Smooth Criminal

Ok then sir. kinda tired of being a lil playful in my post so people don't think I am always serious in them cause, well as my sig says. So I'll just straight up Post. Now as for your questinon.

Yes Peach is not one of the best killers. But I tell you this, Nether are characters like Falco. Yet cause there is a lot more to this character, he can make up for it. I'll let Falco players explain that situation.

First in the words of Mikey Lenetia:

"One thing to use an aggressive style is to know EXACTLY when moves will work and when they won't, and not limiting yourself to only a few moves because of them not doing a lot of damage.

Jabs, dair, turnips, dash attack, grabs, everything HAS to be used so that when you finally get around to the higher percents, they'll do a heck of a lot more. Don't worry about using powerful moves, but... don't abuse them. What I mean by what I say is that you have to have a mix of the weaker attacks that don't send far(including down smash, I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, it's useful!) with the ones that do.

That way, even though you're aggressive and moving in and out of range, they really won't know what's going to come out. Also, the most important point that goes for Peach, in my opinion, across the board. Just because they're at percents that things like fair and usmash will kill doesn't mean it's then time to break out the killers. One, to keep them guessing even more and making it actually easier to land a fresh killer. Two, you also build enough damage so something they don't expect, like say uair, will kill."

Now words from me:

Save your moves that you need for killing. Use lots of jabs, get damage off of grabbing. When you grab them don't always launch them so fast. Kick them a few good times then toss them. N-air cant kill so well so use that alot. Dair helps since its not a Kill move. Space dtilts. And turnips. Once you get them to a good % Now you can fely on your kills moves like Fsmash and Up smash. Your fair and bairs, even upairs. uptilt as well. Try to save your most important moves to kill. Cause when you get them to that good %, all of your kill moves will be at full power. And it will be less of a struggle to kill.

Also Her upthrow can be a good tool for Killing.

"What, an Upthrow? the hell, How, that throw sucks and people hardly use it."

Oh? Well let me explain. At 50% and over, you really can't combo into anything. if you was to Fthrow them and Back throw them, then what. They are out of your range. and have to repeat the process of approaching them again. When you up throw them, They are over you, you can use turnips to at least hit them, or make it harder for them to touch the floor. And set up to land an attack on them. This is the more better ways to hit someone after a throw. This is center stage though. Near the edge you can just toss them out. but with some characters, Like DDD, DK, you are not gonna kill them off of a throw. So the hell with that right? Toss them up and get extra hits of of turnips, and even if that dont hit, they have to worry about evading them and then you hitting them while trying to land saftley to the floor. They will still Be in your attack range for turnips and even finishers more than any other throw at 50%+

Also she is good at racking up damage in w ways. Her Attacks and turnips. If you are gonna spam anything. it should not be your fair. it should be:

-Nair
-Dair
-Dtilt
-Jab
-Dsmash
-Turnips
-Grabs
-Up-B, used right and I am dead serious. 12% of damage I believe and good knock back at the final hit so you can't get punished for it that easy.
-Bair (sometimes.)
Uptilt (sometimes)
Uair (sometimes)

Now look at this list here. What is missing from here? Thats right, her kill options:
Fair
Fsmash
Upsmash.

The moves that have (somestimes) in them are moves that can kill as well but sometines are used to rack up damage, like within comboes. Now when I say spamm I don't mean be a dunce with the moves. uses them wall and with a brain to get some hits off. Then you still got your kill moves to kill earlier than expected. You can't just play Peach to play her. if your character can't just boldly kill, you can;t just go swinging attacks and playing so typical. This is why Peach does not get anywhere and people don't really see what she is about. Thus she is bias on her self and against characters. As well as people saying the typical stuff about her for over a year now.

"how can Peach rack up damage quick and early?"

Besides the chain grab we have:

Basic combos

-Dthrow>uptilt
-Dair>Nair
-Dair>Uair
-Dair>Fair
-Dair>Bair
-Jab>Dtilt
-Jab>grab
-Jab>Nair
-Jab>Nair
-Turnip>fair
-Turnip>Nair

Advance combos ( you would need good control of Peach and her floating as well)-

*= Depends on where your enemy is/goes after the first or second hit of the combo

-*Dair>Dair>Fair
-Dair>Dair
-Dair>Dair>Dair
-Dair>Dair>Dair>Uair
-*Dair>Dair>Dair>Uair>Up-B
-*Dair>Dair>falling Dair>Usmash/Utilt/Up-B
-*Dthrow>Ftilt>Uptilt/Usmash/Up-B
-*Dthrow>Ftilt>Jab>grab>Dthrow>Utilt/Uair/Up-B
-Bair>grab
-Fair>Jab>grab> (look at the list of what you can do after grabs)
-*Falling Dair>Jab>(look at the list of what you can do after jabs/grabs)
-*Falling Dair> Usmash/Utilt/Up-B/Nair/Bair

Now look at the list of moves I said to use alot that have (sometimes) in them. Then look at the combo list. Makes since to why it has (sometimes) next to them right you might already be using the move to get damage. So the won' be fresh for kill. other times they will.

Peach is like Chess, you just CAN'T go in there and say "ok, I wanna get this pawn with my rook" When there is a pawn right by it that can take you out. Now in Brawl terms.

You can just go swinging all your kill moves and all. You can get all the hits you wan't. Then when you get to that kill %, you are in trouble, you can't kill them at % they should be dead. And that sucks for you, and you already not a solid killer. oh man. then your enemy is gonna take you out easy. So you have to think how you gonna keep them kill moves fresh, and get your damage by new means. Peach and chess have something in common so you know.
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Thing that finishes up about Peach and killing. Ok, so what else is next that I have to explain?

 

[Gindler]

To be fair peach's Fair is a good kill move.........it's just always stale

I've played againstpeach so much though that I'd say she's right where she belongs, back in the day I woulda thought of her as alot better though

 

[Dark.Pch]

To be fair peach's Fair is a good kill move.........it's just always stale

It's always stales cause Peach players would do anything to a Fair. That is one of Peachs abused moves from a typical Peach player. That is why it is always stale. I explained this already. It's not stale cause of the character. it is stale cause of the player.

 

[DemonFart]

It's always stales cause Peach players would do anything to a Fair. That is one of Peachs abused moves from a typical Peach player. That is why it is always stale. I explained this already. It's not stale cause of the character. it is stale cause of the player.

That can be said about any move though.

 

[Morrigan]

Not really. Some moves just suck and don't deserve to be used.

 

[Dark.Pch]

That can be said about any move though.

Ok, but I am talking about one move, which is Peach's fair and that dude saying it is always stale. Then explaining it is not the characters fault it is stale. At the start of a match, that move is not stale. That kind of post is what runs through peoples minds alot and thus can never trully see what this character is about or can really do. This is one of many examples that I hear about this character that just is not right at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Does peaches dair count as 4 refreshes on moves or 1

 

[DemonFart]

I'm pretty sure it counts as one.

 

[Dark.Pch]

That is something I never bothered to check. I think it can cause it is a chain of hits. The same could be asked about :

Meta's Ftilt/bair/Fair/tornado
Snakes Ftilts
Marths Dancing blade.
IC Blizzard
Kirbys Fair
Ness PK Fire

Just a few examples.
if those characters moves count then Peach will as well.

 

[deepseadiva]

It's one hit.

Otherwise, Peach's moves are magically refreshed after two dairs (basically).

 

[Dark.Pch]

It's one hit.

Otherwise, Peach's moves are magically refreshed after two dairs (basically).

Is that so. Well guess that was obviously since Peach players love to use Dair alot and can't kill. Oh man, Peach would be too broken.

 

[Tristan_win]

That is something I never bothered to check. I think it can cause it is a chain of hits. The same could be asked about :

Meta's Ftilt/bair/Fair/tornado
Snakes Ftilts
Marths Dancing blade.
IC Blizzard
Kirbys Fair
Ness PK Fire

Just a few examples.
if those characters moves count then Peach will as well.

it would count as one, even multiple jabs will count as one.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Wait what about Jab cancels like with Ike?

 

[Tristan_win]

Wait what about Jab cancels like with Ike?

I'm not sure about Ike's jab cancels or jab cancels in general but I remember reading that a lot of attacks if happen too quickly to each other that the game wont read both attacks. The example was the 2nd and 3rd jab in the jab jab jab combos for most characters.

 

[DemonFart]

That is something I never bothered to check. I think it can cause it is a chain of hits. The same could be asked about :

Meta's Ftilt

If you use all 3 hits of the ftilt, I'm sure it counts as 3 instead of 1 considering you can stop using the ftilt after the first hit. You can't cancel Peach's dair though which is why it counts as one.

EDIT:Nvm, I'm not so sure.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That is something I never bothered to check. I think it can cause it is a chain of hits. The same could be asked about :

Meta's Ftilt/bair/Fair/tornado
Snakes Ftilts
Marths Dancing blade.
IC Blizzard
Kirbys Fair
Ness PK Fire

Just a few examples.
if those characters moves count then Peach will as well.

Actually, out of all of them (as far as I know), only one move counts as multiple refreshes (both a good and bad thing btw, good because it's abused, bad because it could have another use as well if it didn't).

That move is dancing blade. The button presses seem to be the best rule, though grabs and pummels seem to work differently.


Edit: I think Mk's ftilt too.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Well ok then. Good to know.

I already set the foundation down on killing with Peach. So what esle needs to be explained about this character?

 

[Mr.E]

Dark.Pch doesn't know anything about why Pit or DK are better than Peach because he does not main them. And why is everyone posting in color now?

lol "more better"

Inui cries himself to sleep at night... cuz Snake ***** his ****.

fixedsys

 

[DemonFart]

Oh god....Now for the battle.
*leaves*

And I'm not posting in color.