The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Nidtendofreak]

Ganondorf's is worse. Bad range, and if he hits you with it, there is a good change you can punish him for it.

 

[#HBC | J]

but Ganondorf is lower than Link, he said there may be characters who have worse recovery that are higher on the tier list.

I'm just curious. =P

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ivy? Terrible horizontal speed + tether only + 1 crappy, slow projectile. On the flip side, she falls slower and has more range with her tether.

 

[KillerJawz]

Link's recovery is not good, but there are characters with recovery who are probably worse and are way higher up on the tier list than he is. There is more to a character's recovery than the distance provided by their up special. I'm not sure how many times I must say this before people stop regurgitating the same old ****.

No, his is the worst in the entire game overall, not in vertical height (I believe DK's is the worst in that area), but overall, it's Link's.

Link is ridiculously heavy and falls fast. His up air bucket breaks. His bombs and boomerang provide amazing edgeguard protection. His up-b has pretty good "priority" and his hard to hit through. High-level Link play rarely involves gimping/edgeguarding. Olimar gets edgeguarded way more.

He's around 10th heaviest iirc, and his up air does not bucket break. Also you must not have seen Xyro v Legan, or myself v Izaw, both Link players suffered major stock losses from gimps respectively.

Link is low tier, but not bottom tier, and he's low tier because he's easy to counterpick with characters and stages, and bad OOS (like really bad, worse than ZSS or Yoshi or anything), not because his recovery is terrible.

Yoshi doesn't have any OoS options, so that isn't correct.

His offensive on-stage and camping games are too good for him to ever be bottom tier, lol. WAY WAY better a character than Ganon and by no means in the same tier.

That's really just your opinion, and I do agree with it tbh.

ZSS being ranked lower than Zelda in tier list 1.0, etc.

Haha good times.

 

[YagamiLight]

No, his is the worst in the entire game overall, not in vertical height (I believe DK's is the worst in that area), but overall, it's Link's.

Actually the worst Up Special vertical distance wise is without a doubt Jigglypuff.

Did you see what I did there?

 

[Justblaze647]

Did you see what I did there?

I see it lol

 

[<π]

links OoS isn't that bad... nair and bair OoS bomb toss OoS, upB. his rather slow grab actually lets him punish a lot of things most of the cast can't on shield.

his OoS game isn't stellar but not as bad as a lot of people seem to think.

 

[Shaya]

No <3.

His OoS game is terrible, stop saying "a character's options aren't bad" for the sake of it.
His jump is 8 or 9 frames start up. His nair is 7 frames I believe.

Bomb pulls are laggy, the bombs themselves do not open up too many opportunities (less so than turnips, bananas), they're like nades with less damage output.

 

[Dark.Pch]

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Done, screw you all.

 

[<π]

No <3.

His OoS game is terrible, stop saying "a character's options aren't bad" for the sake of it.
His jump is 8 or 9 frames start up. His nair is 7 frames I believe.

Bomb pulls are laggy, the bombs themselves do not open up too many opportunities (less so than turnips, bananas), they're like nades with less damage output.

his OOS game is better than snakes :/

 

[Steeler]

Done, screw you all.

i don't see why you are so huffy. in a lot of your posts, you act like it's a personal insult to you when people underrate peach or whatever. it's just a character in a video game, dude.

i'm not trying to insult you, i'm just genuinely confused about why you seem to behave this way.

 

[Shaya]

his OOS game is better than snakes :/

Let's evaluate this for a few moments.

1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(Sorry to insult)

2. Ftilt, Jab, Utilt and DASH ATTACK are all shield drop options that come out faster than anything Link can do out of shield besides grab.

3. Snake's speed of pulling grenades is more significant, and acts as a "counter" move for hitting his shield in the first place.
His glide tosses are very small; but the readjustment for spacing is all that's really needed.
Snake has "reverse" shield options really. The speed at which he can move into shield whilst holding a grenade is significantly good for him.

4. 8 frame grab that has "high up range" (as in, it's geared towards grabbing people throwing aerials at his face). Still, not too great.

5. His rolls cover a lot better distance.

6. Aerials out of shield are "feasible" but not so great. Opportunities do arise for uairs (and sometimes.. maybe... bair) oos, and due to it's massive damage, range and kill power have good reward. I see some snakes dair and nair (Ally) for example as well; Dair covers spot dodges with amazing punishment. Link can't do this at all.

7. Link's spot dodge is "better", but what Snake can do out of a spot dodge is better.

 

[Dark.Pch]

i don't see why you are so huffy. in a lot of your posts, you act like it's a personal insult to you when people underrate peach or whatever. it's just a character in a video game, dude.

i'm not trying to insult you, i'm just genuinely confused about why you seem to behave this way.

Now I know why people dont like me and have such a problem with me. They think everything I say is serious..................

 

[Shaya]

Your tone on the internet DP is pretty much unanimously seen the same by everyone.
It's an issue you pan off every time instead of doing something about it.

And you argue you're joking / not being serious every time. If other people can display this "joke" tone through the internet, why can't you?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It isn't really about the ranking to D.P as much as it is about the perception that Peach is a worse character than she is. I care equally irrationally about what people think about my character. We're just wired to care about something unimportant. Whatever, it's cool.

 

[Spelt]

How could his fake tier list post not be taken as a joke.
idgi.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Your tone on the internet DP is pretty much unanimously seen the same by everyone.
It's an issue you pan off every time instead of doing something about it.

And you argue you're joking / not being serious every time. If other people can display this "joke" tone through the internet, why can't you?

My tone? What, cause I don't use these typical net phrases people abuse like "lol" or faces?

If I have a problem or pissed, I'll let one know. I have no need to hid anything. I am not sure of this tone people. I will say though that I don't post basic or typical, and that might throw people off. I loke to post my own way and not follow some trend.

But people assume too much of me as it is. Like my tier list was OBVIOUSLY a joke and someone throught I was serious. Come on now. I am not gonna sit here and say it is my fault people see me as they want.

 

[Nefarious B]

In general Dark peach is a raging tard when it comes to internet "etiquette" for lack of a better rule, but I've gotta say, how on earth does anyone take the all peach tier list seriously?

 

[Shaya]

Oh, and to clarify, to me that was an obvious joke post.

The main thing that used to get people "upset" with you was what people perceived as derogatory put downs such as "you boys". Usually ending with "dont know nothing".

Tone can be derived from words only, inclusion of "lol" or faces is only an internet/"quick messaging" phenomenon that articulate thoughts/tone with... less "work".

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ahhh shaddup the entire lot of you
Jesus, taking a joke tierlist seriously.
Makes you no better than when DP takes things too seriously.

*smacks you all with fish so you stink the same*

 

[Roie]

I dont get what atier list composed of only peaches is saying. Do you want peach higher or lower, or are you saying that peach is theo nly fair cahracter?

 

[Dark.Pch]

In general Dark peach is a raging tard when it comes to internet "etiquette" for lack of a better rule,

What????

Oh, and to clarify, to me that was an obvious joke post.

The main thing that used to get people "upset" with you was what people perceived as derogatory put downs such as "you boys". Usually ending with "dont know nothing".

Tone can be derived from words only, inclusion of "lol" or faces is only an internet/"quick messaging" phenomenon that articulate thoughts/tone with... less "work".

So when I say "you boys" people get upset and think I am putting them down? WTF? Ok, when I say that I dont mean anything by it. It's like saying "you dudes, You People, you smasher, etc.

What want me to call you girls to really start something? If you take that as some kind of put down, that is YOUR fault, for taking it that way. I have nothing to do with that. But I get pinned as the bad one for it. Sorry but I don't think that is far. Really when I say that, it means nothing. If I wanna insult someone, believe me, I'll do it and do much better than simple that is nothing of an isult.

But I come to realize, that is how I will always be seen here. No matter what I do, thats the image people are gonna have and it will never change. I can be the most legit and serious person in the community, and peoples views of me will never change. So leads to stuff like this. Which is kinda why I gave up on trying to be in the BBR. I'm never gonna get in there no matter what I do. People need to let this image go. But I am use to it so it's w/e. People who like ACTUALLY know how I am and actually talk to me 1 on 1 are what would matter.

 

[Steeler]

haha just to clarify, i didn't take the tier list to be "serious". there are not almost 40 peaches in super smash bros. brawl!!!!

but i've noticed a pattern of posting habits and tone that DP has and i felt like asking him about it this time because i was curious. it really had nothing to do with the content of the post, aside from the remark that i quoted.

anyway

But I come to realize, that is how I will always be seen here. No matter what I do, thats the image people are gonna have and it will never change. I can be the most legit and serious person in the community, and peoples views of me will never change. So leads to stuff like this. Which is kinda why I gave up on trying to be in the BBR. I'm never gonna get in there no matter what I do. People need to let this image go. But I am use to it so it's w/e. People who like ACTUALLY know how I am and actually talk to me 1 on 1 are what would matter.

it's not going to change if you don't change how you post... i'm sure a LOT of people believe you have some kind of irrational need to defend all things peach related and take affront to anything negative said about her. it's your decision but if your image bothers you then do something to change it, don't just sit here and feel the "victim".

 

[Dark.Pch]

Then I am gona have people looking down on me and haiting me for a long time cause I am not chainging how I post. I seriously should not have to change for everyone cause peopl get buthurt about what I say. Let people assume and see me as they want. it's life.

And all I do with Peach when she is being talked about is correct the wrong. If people don't like it, then they can not talk about my character like they are right.

 

[Roie]

balance is having that possibility for one player to beat the other within the context of the current metagame

 

[<π]

Let's evaluate this for a few moments.

1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(Sorry to insult)


2. Ftilt, Jab, Utilt and DASH ATTACK are all shield drop options that come out faster than anything Link can do out of shield besides grab and spin attack frame 11 directly OoS, and bomb toss, frame 7 directly OoS.

Mmm... I looked into frame data snake is fast as hell on the ground ****. dair OoS would be like 13 which actually isn't horrible for badly spaced stuff. link has a definite advantage when it comes to well spaced stuff on sheild because of bombs and his tether grab. and his options out of shield are relatively safer on shield, bair, zair, sh bombs, etc. but snake admittedly has more guaranteed and better punishment options (better meaning more damage and knock back in this case.)

 

[Spelt]

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I fixed it, btw.

 

[smashkng]

SFP, ask any good Link mainer not named Izaw if you still think he isn't the 5th worst character in the game at the very least. The more you play Link the more you'll think how bad he is. And his recovery is a really big factor. As I said before if it wasn't for his horrible recovery he wouldn't go 20/80 against DDD.

Link's OoS attacks like grab, Up b or Usmash OoS are all extremely unsafe if he misses it, Link has much more unsafe OoS options than Snake has IMO. Snake's OoS options are FAR better than Link's. Not only DA, Utilt and Ftilt are all faster than Link's fastest attack OoS that isn't shield grab other than the Bomb, but they also provide very big range so he can punish even well spaced long range moves.

 

[Throwback]

well I can't find the post but I'm pretty sure link's jump is not 8 or 9 frames as shaya posted. I think the slowest jump is like 6 frames.

 

[YagamiLight]

well I can't find the post but I'm pretty sure link's jump is not 8 or 9 frames as shaya posted. I think the slowest jump is like 6 frames.

Well then you would be wrong.

The slowest jump is Snake at 10 frames.

This is followed by Bowser at 9 frames.

Then you have stuff like Ike, Link and Ganon at 8 frames.

And so on, and so forth.

 

[smashkng]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258564 It says Ganon's jump is 6 frames and not 8.

Edit: Let's talk about chracters who are viable in tourneys. For example how good are Pikachu, Lucario and Pit?

 

[Technodeath]

SFP, ask any good Link mainer not named Izaw if you still think he isn't the 5th worst character in the game at the very least. The more you play Link the more you'll think how bad he is. And his recovery is a really big factor. As I said before if it wasn't for his horrible recovery he wouldn't go 20/80 against DDD.

Link's OoS attacks like grab, Up b or Usmash OoS are all extremely unsafe if he misses it, Link has much more unsafe OoS options than Snake has IMO. Snake's OoS options are FAR better than Link's. Not only DA, Utilt and Ftilt are all faster than Link's fastest attack OoS that isn't shield grab other than the Bomb, but they also provide very big range so he can punish even well spaced long range moves.

You come here to post that?

 

[Yikarur]

Ganons Jump Start-up ist 7.

 

[<π]

SFP, ask any good Link mainer not named Izaw if you still think he isn't the 5th worst character in the game at the very least. The more you play Link the more you'll think how bad he is. And his recovery is a really big factor. As I said before if it wasn't for his horrible recovery he wouldn't go 20/80 against DDD.

Link's OoS attacks like grab, Up b or Usmash OoS are all extremely unsafe if he misses it, Link has much more unsafe OoS options than Snake has IMO. Snake's OoS options are FAR better than Link's. Not only DA, Utilt and Ftilt are all faster than Link's fastest attack OoS that isn't shield grab other than the Bomb, but they also provide very big range so he can punish even well spaced long range moves.

snakes dash attack OOS is pretty ****. you shouldn't really be using OOS stuff if it won't connect in the first place though...

snake has better OoS options than link.

 

[Mr-R]

SFP, ask any good Link mainer not named Izaw if you still think he isn't the 5th worst character in the game at the very least. The more you play Link the more you'll think how bad he is. And his recovery is a really big factor. As I said before if it wasn't for his horrible recovery he wouldn't go 20/80 against DDD.

Link's OoS attacks like grab, Up b or Usmash OoS are all extremely unsafe if he misses it, Link has much more unsafe OoS options than Snake has IMO. Snake's OoS options are FAR better than Link's. Not only DA, Utilt and Ftilt are all faster than Link's fastest attack OoS that isn't shield grab other than the Bomb, but they also provide very big range so he can punish even well spaced long range moves.

i play link and I think he should be way higher on the tier list

get @ me

also link mains are way too emo about link .____.

 

[<π]

If you play with no hope of winning you'lll lose everytime... I'm self taught on all my characters because 9 times out of ten the actual community has given up on winning. My main or even learn an excuse?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

they need the obama hope^^^^

 

[AvaricePanda]

If you play with no hope of winning you'lll lose everytime... I'm self taught on all my characters because 9 times out of ten the actual community has given up on winning. My main or even learn an excuse?

There`s a difference between playing with no hope of winning and realizing that your character is bad. If you can`t acknowledge your characters limitations, then you can`t improve with that character.

 

[Mr-R]

There`s a difference between playing with no hope of winning and realizing that your character is bad. If you can`t acknowledge your characters limitations, tgen you can`t improve with that character.

true but link is good enough to place decent


ganon on the other hand............

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Define 'place decent'