The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[YagamiLight]

Here's what i think tier list should be: High=S, A, B Tier / Mid = C, D Tier / Low E, F Tier

With Zelda/Sheik separate
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E: :shiek:
F:

With Zelda/Sheik separate
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E: (/:shiek
F:

EDIT: inb4legendaryangryaboutwhereiputwario

A fairly good list but I guess if I were to change it I would make the following changes:

-Zelda / Sheik + Ike above Sonic and Pokemon Trainer; this would result in either Zelda / Sheik or Ike being the bottom of D tier while Sonic or PT would be the top of E tier.

-Move Lucas out of bottom and replace him with Mario.


I would make more changes but the list is so neat and tidy that any further changes I make would alter that :/

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hm...

Marth is too high by a little; Dedede by a lot. ICs are too high. Wario is too low, although I can see why you put him where he is. ZSS is better than Olimar and Lucario. Peach is better than everyone in C tier. Fox is better than most of D tier. Ness is significantly too low.

I love where you have Falco and Diddy. I Like that you put Toon Link in high tier. I like that you finally put GaW where he belongs. I think you probably have Ike rated a bit low (I want to see him in mid tier, but not too high in mid tier). Yoshi might be too low, but I want to see people kicking *** with him before I say that for sure. Sheik is probably too low, but I'm not really sure what to do about Sheik so wheneve rI do a tier list of my own I tend to just shove her somewhere. Lucas is too high, Link is too low. I see Link as sort of being the best character in Low tier.

Overall I think you have a pretty good understanding of things though. I don't see too many issues where characters are way too far from where they ought to be.

IMO:

TOP:
S:

HIGH:
A:
B:

MID:
C:
D: :shiek:

LOW:
E:

BOTTOM:
F:

Maybe something like this. Don't read too much into it I guess, I just like making lists.

 

[YagamiLight]

Ness above Mr. Game and Watch?

Seriously?

EDIT: Okay good, you fixed it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

IMO:

TOP:
S:

HIGH:
A:
B:

MID:
C:
D: :shiek:

LOW:
E:

BOTTOM:
F:

IMO Marth should go a tier up, TL go under Peach. ROB, Kirby and Luigi go down, Fox up and Sonic dooown.

Nice list tho

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ness above Mr. Game and Watch?

Seriously?

EDIT: Okay good, you fixed it.

Ness isnt above gw... ?

EDIT: you edited right after i pushed quote apparently lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Actually I think time will show that Ness is a better, more flexible character than GaW with better match-ups with good characters, but we aren't there yet.

I have a lot of issues about the community's perception of certain characters and how inflexible we tend to be when shown evidence that a character might be better than our pre-conceived notions. We have a lot of "sacred cows" in this community; first, it was Captain Falcon, then it was ZSS, now it is Link and Ness (and to a lesser extent Ike, people are pretty split on Ike).

It's entirely possible that a character can be way, way better than we think it is. It's even possible that they could be several tiers better. There is no way a low or low-mid level character could compete with top players who know the match-up more than once or twice and still win, and yet Shaky and FOW do it. Ness is legit, he has an amazing moveset and workable match-ups. I don't subscribe to the idea that one or two bad match-ups ruins a character anyway.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Hm...

Marth is too high by a little; Dedede by a lot. ICs are too high. Wario is too low, although I can see why you put him where he is. ZSS is better than Olimar and Lucario. Peach is better than everyone in C tier. Fox is better than most of D tier. Ness is significantly too low.

I love where you have Falco and Diddy. I Like that you put Toon Link in high tier. I like that you finally put GaW where he belongs. I think you probably have Ike rated a bit low (I want to see him in mid tier, but not too high in mid tier). Yoshi might be too low, but I want to see people kicking *** with him before I say that for sure. Sheik is probably too low, but I'm not really sure what to do about Sheik so wheneve rI do a tier list of my own I tend to just shove her somewhere. Lucas is too high, Link is too low. I see Link as sort of being the best character in Low tier.

Overall I think you have a pretty good understanding of things though. I don't see too many issues where characters are way too far from where they ought to be.

IMO:

TOP:
S:

HIGH:
A:
B:

MID:
C:
D: :shiek:

LOW:
E:

BOTTOM:
F:

Maybe something like this. Don't read too much into it I guess, I just like making lists.

well If I had to read into it marth gets similar tournaments results to falco last time i looked at the rankings so I don't see him being an entire tiers difference. Although ZSS does get results to warrant her being so high so I can't call it pure main bias.


with MLG rule sets diddy is probably where he should be.

Ness is a tough one, I don't think he is particularly good however time will tell.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think Ness is a tough one at all, and I'll explain why.

In this community, we expect a lot more from low and mid tier characters than we do high tier characters when it comes to evaluating how good or bad they are. This isn't really logical. If, say, Ike placed top 10 consistently at regionals and nationals for six months, we'd say "hey it's just the player" even though we already only really have a sprinkling of Pikachu players placing top 10 anywhere. If Ike suddenly got top 3 at a national, we'd change our thinking and maybe move him up five places. For the six months prior, this theoretical character was placing top 10, consistent with other high tier characters (who oftentimes don't really place top 10, most of the time we see a lot of Snakes, MKs, a random Falco and Wario and a Diddy maybe) but we didn't move him at all. This is a little bizarre and tragic. We require characters to dramatically outperform their capabilities to even consider that they might be better than where we've placed them, even though their real rank could be somewhere between those two extremes (and oftentimes is).

I think Ness, ZSS, Link, etc. are really good examples of this and hope that we can move past this in tier list 5.

 

[Spelt]

lol @ dedede being above wario

 

[#HBC | J]

wow some people reaaaaaaly underrate/hate Lucas. Bottom tier

I like the placement of SFP's tier list till low tier.

 

[Nefarious B]

On SFP's list:

I would:
-Move mario up to the very bottom of mid, below Ike
-Take DK, Fox, and Wolf (in that order) and put them in front of Wigi in C tier. Drop Wigi and Ness to D tier, making them top of D
-Move Pit in between GaW and Kirby
-Switch Olimar and ZSS
-Move Marth to bottom of A
-Put Climbers ahead of Pikachu, top of B tier.

I'm undecided about DDD, but I think he's better than Olimar and ZSS still. His bad matchups are overrated and his strengths not represented enough. I would probably put him at 9th

-As for low tier, IMO:
E: Yoshi, Bowser, Link, Falcon, Lucas
F: Samus, Zelda, Puff, Ganon

 

[Conviction]

Hm...

Marth is too high by a little; Dedede by a lot. ICs are too high. Wario is too low, although I can see why you put him where he is. ZSS is better than Olimar and Lucario. Peach is better than everyone in C tier. Fox is better than most of D tier. Ness is significantly too low.

I love where you have Falco and Diddy. I Like that you put Toon Link in high tier. I like that you finally put GaW where he belongs. I think you probably have Ike rated a bit low (I want to see him in mid tier, but not too high in mid tier). Yoshi might be too low, but I want to see people kicking *** with him before I say that for sure. Sheik is probably too low, but I'm not really sure what to do about Sheik so wheneve rI do a tier list of my own I tend to just shove her somewhere. Lucas is too high, Link is too low. I see Link as sort of being the best character in Low tier.

Overall I think you have a pretty good understanding of things though. I don't see too many issues where characters are way too far from where they ought to be.

IMO:

TOP:
S:

HIGH:
A:
B:

MID:
C:
D: :shiek:

LOW:
E:

BOTTOM:
F:

Maybe something like this. Don't read too much into it I guess, I just like making lists.

This right here is really good. Only thing is Ness over Fox? other than that I really have no complaints.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This right here is really good. Only thing is Ness over Fox? other than that I really have no complaints.

I actually should move fox up a lot (like, a lot).

 

[Conviction]

Idk how you are thinking but don't over do it lol.

 

[#HBC | J]

this happened about like 2-3 weeks ago or something? w/e ill jump on the bandwagon.

S:
A:
B:
C:
D: :shiek:
E:
F:

Ask any questions if you like =P (yes Lucas is NOT bottom tier or close to it ><")

 

[Z'zgashi]

You can flame me for this, but i really dont think fox is all that amazing, imo he's bottom of mid. He gets shut down by far to many people and really doesn't fare well against top and high tier. He's a cool, fun character, but i dont find him all that amazing. I do however hate fighting fox... >.>

 

[Conviction]

You can flame me for this, but i really dont think fox is all that amazing, imo he's bottom of mid. He gets shut down by far to many people and really doesn't fare well against top and high tier. He's a cool, fun character, but i dont find him all that amazing. I do however hate fighting fox... >.>

I can tell you don't know wtf you are talking about.

Hmmm ok Pika,Shiek,ICs.

Do you do your research before you speak?

Snake 50:50
MK 40:60
ROB: 60:40 (Fox adv.)
Marth 40:60
Diddy: 50:50
Falco 50:50
IC's 30:70 (yea that one is bad)
Wario 50:50
DDD 55:45 (Fox adv.)
Pika 30:70 (lolz)
we haven't gone over Oli
Lucario 60:40 (Fox adv.)
we haven't gone over GnW either

Doesn't look like **** to me.

hhmm starting to look better than most of D tier and I'm not even finshed yet. Also some MUs like Marth do need to rediscussed. Please stick to agruing for Yoshi.

Sorry to come off evil.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I can tell you don't know wtf you are talking about.

Hmmm ok Pika,Shiek,ICs.

Do you do your research before you speak?

Snake 50:50
MK 40:60
ROB: 60:40 (Fox adv.)
Marth 40:60
Diddy: 50:50
Falco 50:50
IC's 30:70 (yea that one is bad)
Wario 50:50
DDD 55:45 (Fox adv.)
Pika 30:70 (lolz)
we haven't gone over Oli
Lucario 60:40 (Fox adv.)
we haven't gone over GnW either

Doesn't look like **** to me.

hhmm starting to look better than most of D tier and I'm not even finshed yet. Also some MUs like Marth do need to rediscussed. Please stick to agruing for Yoshi.

Sorry to come off evil.

He does have a few good mu's up there's but overall he's no better than most other mids. You admit that fox has 3, yes 3 terrible and almost unwinnable mu's. Look at this and then look at dk. He's pretty solid in most areas, he's strong, he's got good spacing, and then all of a sudden d3 comes along and he drops waaay down. All because of one terrible matchup. Now look back at fox. He has 3, 2 of which are just as good as d3 and yet it barely effects him? He's overall decent against a lot of other highs, yes, but overall, he just doesn't make the cut. His mu's and placing put him at the bottom of mid, so if you don't agree and think he's better, then start placing with him and prove me wrong

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I can tell you don't know wtf you are talking about.

Hmmm ok Pika,Shiek,ICs.

Do you do your research before you speak?

Snake 50:50
MK 40:60
ROB: 60:40 (Fox adv.)
Marth 40:60
Diddy: 50:50
Falco 50:50
IC's 30:70 (yea that one is bad)
Wario 50:50
DDD 55:45 (Fox adv.)
Pika 30:70 (lolz)
we haven't gone over Oli
Lucario 60:40 (Fox adv.)
we haven't gone over GnW either

Doesn't look like **** to me.

hhmm starting to look better than most of D tier and I'm not even finshed yet. Also some MUs like Marth do need to rediscussed. Please stick to agruing for Yoshi.

Sorry to come off evil.

Why is Falco vs Fox 50:50? I'd have never guessed that. I would have thought it to have been in Falco's favour. Though, Fox can force an approach by just holding Down B I suppose.

 

[Conviction]

He does have a few good mu's up there's but overall he's no better than most other mids. You admit that fox has 3, yes 3 terrible and almost unwinnable mu's. Look at this and then look at dk. He's pretty solid in most areas, he's strong, he's got good spacing, and then all of a sudden d3 comes along and he drops waaay down. All because of one terrible matchup. Now look back at fox. He has 3, 2 of which are just as good as d3 and yet it barely effects him? He's overall decent against a lot of other highs, yes, but overall, he just doesn't make the cut. His mu's and placing put him at the bottom of mid, so if you don't agree and think he's better, then start placing with him and prove me wrong

Sounds fine with me and also isn't TKD doing that? and other Foxes like Trevonte? CT? Also yea I will show up in the community cause it isn't the same 13- people it used to be.

But don't notice that DK gets handled by some of the other low tiered characters is also why he is falling.

EDIT: The match is based on who gets the % lead first. They evenly camp each other even though Fox jumps faster and releases more lasers gets a little edge.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

EDIT: The match is based on who gets the % lead first. They evenly camp each other even though Fox jumps faster and releases more lasers gets a little edge.

But... Chaingrabs.

Actually, chaingrabs is the reason characters like Dedede are overrated. But yeah. I still would have thought Falco > Fawks, but w/e. ^_^

 

[Z'zgashi]

Sounds fine with me and also isn't TKD doing that? and other Foxes like Trevonte? CT? Also yea I will show up in the community cause it isn't the same 13- people it used to be.

But don't notice that DK gets handled by some of the other low tiered characters is also why he is falling.

EDIT: The match is based on who gets the % lead first. They evenly camp each other even though Fox jumps faster and releases more lasers gets a little edge.

I'd be happy to have some insane foxes come up and win some big tournaments or something and prove me wrong, unfortunatly this just hasn't happened for him so far

 

[Conviction]

But... Chaingrabs.

Actually, chaingrabs is the reason characters like Dedede are overrated. But yeah. I still would have thought Falco > Fawks, but w/e. ^_^

Dair>Utilt chain does about the same amount of damage.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'd be happy to have some insane foxes come up and win some big tournaments or something and prove me wrong, unfortunatly this just hasn't happened for him so far

That's only because no one plays him properly (Or rather, not many do). He's ridiculously fast. Kinda like Sheik without ftilt but with lasers.

 

[Browny]

Sigh... 27 months on, people still bring up arbitrary MU ratio spreads as a basis to any sort of argument about a characters worth. Dont people realise how utterly pointless that is?

When will this ever end?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sigh... 27 months on, people still bring up arbitrary MU ratio spreads as a basis to any sort of argument about a characters worth. Dont people realise how utterly pointless that is?

When will this ever end?

I replaced the smiley face.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mu's aren't pointless. If mk had bad mu's would he be number one? Probably not

 

[Conviction]

Meta Knight rank: 32%
4996 (+655)
(Non-M2K MKs: 3981)
-----
Ally and ADHD rank: 23%
2408 (+204)
(Non-Ally Snakes: 1668)
1189 (-92)
(Non-ADHD Diddys: 668)
-----
Senselessly popular rank: 15%
859 (+90)
740 (-32)
680 (-80)
-----
Pretty good rank: 13%
472 (-32)
446 (+26)
437 (+20)
362 (+220) !!
313 (-44)
-----
Passable rank: 10%
244 (+38)
219 (+77)
208 (+2)
195 (-76)
187 (+13)
186 (-41)
183 (-9)
170 (+5)
-----
Questionable rank: 4.7%
151 (+40)
123 (+13)
100 (-64) !!
99 (-22)
91 (even)
:shiek: + + /:shiek: 88 (+3)
82 (-13)
-----
Bad rank: 1.4%
61 (-14) (don't forget MLG Columbus is not in this list)
59 (+10)
55 (+4)
42 (+10)
-----
Fail rank: 0.27%
22 (-10)
20 (+14)
-----
Epic fail rank: 0.30%
18 (-3)
15 (-2)
14 (+1)
-----
Jigglypuff rank: 0.04%
6 (+3)

His tourney results are defiantly looking better.

Numbers are to base off something. Would you rather base it off the air DJ?

 

[<π]

zelda definitely solve sheiks major issues... and get this sheik takes care of Zeldas... crazy how they designed the game like that.

 

[Z'zgashi]

This thread really needs updating, it's fine if your busy, but it's been 3 ****ING MONTHS!!!

Also I'm starting to think that Zelda and sheik together wouldn't be such a bad idea afterall

 

[#HBC | J]

This thread really needs updating, it's fine if your busy, but it's been 3 ****ING MONTHS!!!

3 months is a long time?

 

[Conviction]

Well Ankoku did said he would update monthly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

3 months is a long time?

For some things, yes.

 

[Z'zgashi]

@bandit: what iblis and aero said

 

[Browny]

rofl... look at what thread you're in guys

 

[Z'zgashi]

... Dam you iblis for Making me think this was the Character ranking thread lol

 

[Steeler]

Dair>Utilt chain does about the same amount of damage.

you can SDI that. you can't SDI chaingrabs.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Wow @ this lucas hate.

My region must be terrible, or I'm amazing :D

 

[Conviction]

LOL mindgames.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

fffffffffffffff. Good read.