The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[smashkng]

Mr R if you think Link can place well enough then prove it by going to Bushido going all Link without using your Marth at all if you only care about enjoying it. Someone must prove why he isn't the 2nd worst character in the game. And at least the "decent" placing being not getting 2 stocked in every match instead of 3 stocked.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Actually, no one has to 'prove' anything to get him to move. You don't put a character somewhere and go "ok prove me wrong." That's hot how this **** works LOL

 

[Flayl]

You're right, you have to prove why a character's position should be changed, which is exactly what smashkng is asking. Learn to read?

 

[Mr-R]

yeah man thats exactly what im gonna do
im gonna travel 243325 miles, pay at least 150 euros, and go all link at the biggest european tourney so far that even ally is attending (Y)
I got dees,

the one time i did go link in a tourney was against kaos... on a stage I completely did NOT KNOW end thus end up bombing myself a hella lot times and still got to his last stock.
that is DECENT right.

but this isn't about me i main marth,
it's about the ones that do **** with link like kirinblaze !
u think anyone would be able to get those tourney results with jiggly, zelda or whatever?

 

[Blacknight99923]

link has a fan boy population though more so then the others which naturally draws more mains to link, hence higher representaion

 

[Spelt]

wtf is a euros.
does it taste good?

 

[Dumbfire]

Its were most europeans pay with, like dollars.

 

[Luigi player]

wtf is a euros.
does it taste good?

It tastes better than dollars...

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Me thinks a lot of people here don't have a very accurate perspective on Link.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Me thinks a lot of people here don't have a very accurate perspective on Link.

Yeah, I basically give up.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I recall someone saying Link as bad OoS options? I laugh at that one.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I recall someone saying Link as bad OoS options? I laugh at that one.

He is SLOW OOS, but I guess not always bad OOS. He can't really grab that's for sure.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Euros and Dollars suck

Pounds are where its at
£££

How many frames is Link's Up Smash OoS?

Tbh, I can't ever see Link leaving Low Tier. He's got some ok aspects about him but look at all the other characters and can you really say 'Yea, he deserves to be above character X'?

The answer is probably not due to his terribly recovery and the importance of aerials in this game. His DI can be as godlike as it likes - if he gets sent far away enough, he isn't coming back even if he is still alive

 

[Shaya]

I recall someone saying Link as bad OoS options? I laugh at that one.

When did anyone say otherwise?
Man DP, sometimes I think you pick a character who's actually bad, and well documented as bad; and troll stating "people don't know this character" over and over again when anyone answers your enquiries, but then you never choose to argue anything else other than that (they know nothing about the character). Hypocritical muchos.

Link has terrible OoS options. What, you're going to tell me the options exist hence link mustn't be bad? The options every character in the game uniformly have, but each one of link's are twice the start up time of... average... The only thing he has is okay item throws oos, BUT his bomb pull is extremely slow and he doesn't have the fast gtfo options in the first place like... Diddy... Snake... to actually be able to pull bombs constantly either.

SFP, I don't really see you saying anything else about Link either, other than "people underrate him"; you've mentioned things like his range and momentum cancelling (two really good things for him) and down play his other weaknesses. At least you'll admit his oos options are terrible, I can't expect DP to ever realise reality in his vigilante campaigns.

Honestly? I think Zelda is worse than Link. However what nails Link badly is the much more severely terribad matchups with cgers like Dedede and Falco. I don't think Link has much room in the diddy match up either just by looking at the specifics (I could be wrong though).

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Shaya, all people really talk about in relation to Link is his recovery. Part of the reason he's bad isn't because of the recovery itself, but because high tier characters can exploit it really easily. My character can't really gimp Link at all and there are several others that can't, too. Everyone can gimp Olimar though.

I think my problem is that people talk about characters in vacuums and not in relation to other characters. And no, I don't mean like "Link's recovery is worse than everyone above" or anything like that, I mean "Link's recovery is bad in X match-ups" where arguments really matter. Weaknesses are contextual. Link's recovery isn't bad enough that you could really just say "It's bad in this game," it just happens to be "bad in several important match-ups."

Anyway, I'm not "downplaying" his weaknesses, I'm disagreeing with you in that they are as bad or ****ing as you think they are. There's a difference, lol. And you have yet to acknowledge any of his strengths, so I could say the same thing.

Also, why is "damn" censored? lol

 

[Dark.Pch]

When did anyone say otherwise?
Man DP, sometimes I think you pick a character who's actually bad, and well documented as bad; and troll stating "people don't know this character" over and over again when anyone answers your enquiries, but then you never choose to argue anything else other than that (they know nothing about the character). Hypocritical muchos.

Link has terrible OoS options. What, you're going to tell me the options exist hence link mustn't be bad? The options every character in the game uniformly have, but each one of link's are twice the start up time of... average... The only thing he has is okay item throws oos, BUT his bomb pull is extremely slow and he doesn't have the fast gtfo options in the first place like... Diddy... Snake... to actually be able to pull bombs constantly either.

SFP, I don't really see you saying anything else about Link either, other than "people underrate him"; you've mentioned things like his range and momentum cancelling (two really good things for him) and down play his other weaknesses. At least you'll admit his oos options are terrible, I can't expect DP to ever realise reality in his vigilante campaigns.

Honestly? I think Zelda is worse than Link. However what nails Link badly is the much more severely terribad matchups with cgers like Dedede and Falco. I don't think Link has much room in the diddy match up either just by looking at the specifics (I could be wrong though).

I assume it was you that said that? And easy thier tiger.

And you know what you and the others need to do. You need to admit that you all think link is sooooooooooooo horrible cause of his recovery. And thats it. Cause I seriously don't think his OoS options are OMFG bad.

Just admit people down grade Link so much cause of his recovery. This tier list is already a joke to look at. So admitting parts that lead to this joke is not gonna make it look any worst.

 

[Frown]

What part of it is a joke? I mean, some characters might be a little out of place but...

eh.

 

[Deleted member]

If this tier list is a joke, I don't get it.

Link sucks stop talking about him. Bomb to footstool to jab lock is too fun though

 

[Luigi player]

I think Link can hold his own against most characters onstage, but eventually he get's hit offstage and ... dies, because he can't recover. Otherwise he wouldn't be that bad, but his recovery really really sucks.

 

[Ussi]

Doesnt link have difficulty landing his kill moves without extreme mind game/lack of MU knowledge?

 

[vVv Rapture]

I'm pretty sure his god awful recovery isn't the only reason why he is ranked so low.

Saying he is bad because of his recovery solely is incorrect, as it would be more correct to include the other sucky attributes that make him terrible.

 

[Clai]

Speaking of Link, I would like to know why Samus is better than Link. Both of them have immense trouble killing, both have crap for OOS options, including slow grabs, and they both make use of projectiles that can easily be defended. Samus may have a better recovery than Link, but once you get the feel of playing Samus, her recovery isn't all that's cracked to be either. Especially when she falls so slow that you can get an idea of which options the Samus player is going to use.

I personally think that Link and Samus should change places on the tier list.

 

[Chuee]

Samus' camp & gimp game is better than Links.
Her projectiles are better and her Zair is a lot better.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I don't think her projectiles are necessarily better but her zair is

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Doesnt link have difficulty landing his kill moves without extreme mind game/lack of MU knowledge?

It's not so bad. D-Smash is pretty quick, and at least you have range on F-Smash/Up-B.

Speaking of Link, I would like to know why Samus is better than Link. Both of them have immense trouble killing, both have crap for OOS options, including slow grabs, and they both make use of projectiles that can easily be defended. Samus may have a better recovery than Link, but once you get the feel of playing Samus, her recovery isn't all that's cracked to be either. Especially when she falls so slow that you can get an idea of which options the Samus player is going to use.

I personally think that Link and Samus should change places on the tier list.

Up-B out of shield is good with Samus, especially with certain platforms (think Dolphin Slash on Battlefield). Samus has the means of keeping people away by using things like F-Tilt, homing missiles, and Z-Air.

Samus's missiles also lead into stuff much better than Link's projectiles.

 

[Ussi]

Samus actually has a couple of good MUs..

I dunno which gets screwed over more by high tiers..

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Samus' zair is one of the best moves in the game lol

 

[Clai]

Up-B out of shield is good with Samus, especially with certain platforms (think Dolphin Slash on Battlefield).

I really wouldn't call a move the opponent can easily SDI out of and hit Samus back for double the damage, if not a kill, a good option.

Samus has the means of keeping people away by using things like F-Tilt, homing missiles, and Z-Air.

@F-Tilt: Isn't that really bad on shield?
@Homing missiles: Really easy to perfect shield or otherwise avoid, espeically when the start-up of the move alerts you that a missile is coming.
@Z-air: Basically Samus' only effective way of spacing. If you have enough experince when Samus, you'll know when a Z-air is coming and perfect shield it without too many difficulties. The fact that she falls so slow makes it harder for her to keep opponents away. I'd say that Link's Z-air helps him more than Samus' Z-air helps her.

As long as you can avoid Samus's kill moves, it doesn't matter how long she keeps away from you.

Samus's missiles also lead into stuff much better than Link's projectiles.

I think it's the other way around. By virtue of being items, Link's bombs have much more potential than Samus' missiles.

Samus' zair is one of the most predictable moves in the game

That's more like it.

 

[Kole]

Samus' zair is one of the best moves in the game lol

that's a bit of a stretch

 

[Throwback]

....have you ever played a samus main? zair is easily one of the best moves in the game. Yay missiles can be powershielded, do you realise samus has tons of frame-traps from that?

Samus IS terrible, but missiles & zair are great & don't rank among her weaknesses. UbB can be SDI'd out of on the first 3 and last 3 hits, that's all. It's not great but it's not terrible either.

Personally I find link's horrible recovery to be balanced out by his exceptional weight and fall speed. The thing is that when you compare him with other characters, he's just not as good as them.

 

[Kole]

I wasn't saying anything about it being bad. Samus's Zair is easily her best move and is important in her playstyle, but not one of the best moves in the whole game...

 

[YagamiLight]

Fox's Up Smash is an amazing move and an integral part of Fox himself. It must therefore be among the best moves in the game.

Ike's jab is an amazing move and an integral part of Ike himself. It must therefore be among the best moves in the game.

Sheik's Ftilt is an amazing move and an integral part of Sheik herself. It must therefore be among the best moves in the game.

A mid / low tier character's best move being amazing does not necessarily mean that said move is among the top moves in the game...

 

[Kitamerby]

But it may still mean that those are **** good moves.

If MK had Samus's Zair, Ike's Jab, and Fox's usmash, he'd be banned.

 

[stingers]

if mk had warios aerial momentum, ikes jab, samus' zair, foxs usmash, ics grabs, diddys dash attack, warios down b, and charizards side b, he'd be pretty good

 

[Kole]

Fox's Up Smash is an amazing move and an integral part of Fox himself. It must therefore be among the best moves in the game.

Ike's jab is an amazing move and an integral part of Ike himself. It must therefore be among the best moves in the game.

Sheik's Ftilt is an amazing move and an integral part of Sheik herself. It must therefore be among the best moves in the game.

A mid / low tier character's best move being amazing does not necessarily mean that said move is among the top moves in the game...

this exactly.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

lol, but Fox's up smash and Ike's jab ARE two of the best moves in the game.

 

[Kole]

What, are you talking best 20 moves in the game? 10?

 

[Justblaze647]

if mk had warios aerial momentum, ikes jab, samus' zair, foxs usmash, ics grabs, diddys dash attack, warios down b, and charizards side b, he'd be pretty good

haha only then would he be any good.

and definitely not "da bess"

 

[Kitamerby]

We need a list, obviously.

 

[Ussi]

There was a list on the top 10 best of each moves in the game..

best moves in the game though i would say are...

MK's nB (hello priority)
Mk's upB (Hello early kills)
Mk's uair (Hello planking)
Mk's dair (Hello air camping)
Snake's nB
MK's dsmash
More high tier etc