The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Vermanubis]

I have new and compelling evidence that Ganondorf is god-tier:

Irrefutable

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I think he meant Ike!

Ike should be mid tier, so he meant Bowser.

And Samus > Jigglypuff. I don't feel like debating over it, but I'll take a wall of projectiles, the move with the most melee range in the game, and a decent amount of weight for surviving over more, short ranged, KOing options that are for the most part marginally better at best. Jigglypuff saves the Fair and fishes for a Dair -> Rest, Samus saves the Dtilt and fishes for a Bair by the stage edge. *shrugs*

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi > Bowser

 

[Vermanubis]

Low-tier, in my opinion:

F:

Yoshi
Lucas
Zelda
Mario
Falcon
Jiggs

G:
Samus
Link
Ganon

 

[DanGR]

Jiggs>Samus?


Are you guys assuming you're not allowed to grab the ledge? Because then you may be right.


Can't believe I'm even asking this.

 

[Blacknight99923]

iirc jiggle puff has some pretty amazing stalling from what I've heard. I remember something about thats why CM went Gaw against general woodman at apex or something

 

[-LzR-]

I can't argue about Yoshi because I don't know anything about him.
About Ike, I think he is not low tier, but just barely outside of it. He has huge representation, but he still sucks.

 

[Moozle]

Yoshi and Mario should not be low tier. I don't think Samus should either, but if she is, she should be right at the top.

 

[YagamiLight]

About Ike, I think he is not low tier, but just barely outside of it. He has huge representation, but he still sucks.

Ah, your argument as to why Ike is a bad character is virtually flawless. Thanks for taking the time to support your claim.

This community really has an issue with the whole, you know, "proof" thing.

 

[Meru.]

Life is so unfair for Ike.

Some claim Ike is good character. As a counter-argument, others say that Ike hasnt proved anything. So, an Ike player goes and places well at multiple tournaments. And what do we have now?

People say that it isnt Ike, it is just the player.

Poor Ike.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Life is so unfair for Ike.

Some claim Ike is good character. As a counter-argument, others say that Ike hasnt proved anything. So, an Ike player goes and places well at multiple tournaments. And what do we have now?

People say that it isnt Ike, it is just the player.

Poor Ike.

Lets make it even better!

When PT has the same problem, and then Reflex goes out and places well, people say that it's the character being good, not Reflex outplaying his opponent. Or Ness and FOW. But Ike and San? Oh no, it's just San being amazing.

Go figure. Make up your mind people!

 

[Spelt]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954


dat proof

 

[Brawlin]

Zelda..... she dropped down alot

 

[BSP]

Lets make it even better!

When PT has the same problem, and then Reflex goes out and places well, people say that it's the character being good, not Reflex outplaying his opponent. Or Ness and FOW. But Ike and San? Oh no, it's just San being amazing.

Go figure. Make up your mind people!

That's why I think the actual results should have more weight in these lists.

 

[Kitamerby]

Or Ness and FOW.

FOW switched to MK and Ice Climbers/DDD. Try Shaky.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

FOW switched to MK and Ice Climbers/DDD. Try Shaky.

I meant back when he placed well with Ness. Or was it Smash64 that started the "Ness needs to go up" phase? Which was correct, though for the wrong reasons. I still don't like one person = character rise, but if you're going to do so, at least be someone constant with it.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ness has had quite a few players playing Ness beyond his tier list placing. I don't think this is a case of one player influencing the tier list.

Also I feel that Ally is keeping Snake afloat at #2 right now, and he's only one player, really (not that there aren't other well-placing Snakes).

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ness has a number of players who place well in sprees, and then basically fade away until it's their turn to go on a spree again. FOW had a spree. Smash64 had a spree. Shaky had/is in a spree, depending on how you want to look at it.

Very weird character placement wise, I'll give him that. lol.

And it's not Ally keeping Snake up there. It's the fact that MK exists, and he's probably the most used character to gain a close to neutral MU against MK.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ness has a number of players who place well in sprees, and then basically fade away until it's their turn to go on a spree again.

This is true. I wonder if it is because their region learns the character.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yays for me being slow at edits. >_>

I don't think it's just a region thing. FOW quit Ness, that makes it kinda hard to place with Ness again for obvious reasons. Shaky did well at MLG. Haven't heard anything about Smash64 for a while though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

There's an australian Ness named Meteor that is very good, too, but I don't know if he plays now.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

IIRC, Ness dropped from being 3rd to 9th (out of 12 characters) in the Smash64 Tier list

Youch

 

[Nidtendofreak]

A pun off of Smash64's name, or honest confusion? >_> <_<

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lolol, an honest confusion...I don't keep track of Ness players xD

 

[Xebenkeck]

IIRC, Ness dropped from being 3rd to 9th (out of 12 characters) in the Smash64 Tier list

Youch

Ya but unlike brawl 10 of the 12 characters are viable in smash 64

 

[Spelt]

2 characters being unviable in a game with 12 is pretty bad, actually.

 

[AvaricePanda]

In terms of game design it's bad if the makers were looking to make a balanced fighting game, as a game with 12 characters is a lot easier to balance compared to a game of 37. However, since this wasn't made to be a competitive fighting game I'd say it's pretty good.

Also a ratio of 5:1 of viable to inviable characters is much better than Melee or Brawl. It would mean that roughly only 6 characters would be inviable in Brawl which obviously isn't the case.

edit: unrelated, but why aren't more people doing this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN8n-oLtge4

Diddy has an infinite on most of the cast on most stages.

 

[Spelt]

That was discovered in like 2008, lol. It's very hard to setup and not very applicable in a real match.



Oh and I never said brawl and melee are great examples of viability. But still, if you're looking for a balanced fighting game smash 64 isn't it. Guilty Gear xx has like 20+ characters, all of which are viable.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

BAN THE MONKEY

Is there no way to DI which directionyou go when hit? Cause you could chuck yourself over the ledge to avoid getting infinited if so

It looks a bit tricky to successfully set up. I can see it working by doing an OoS aerial D Throw vs a whiffed attack but not many people are going to let you get the chance to set this up if they're spacing well

It sucks that Peach can do this with her Turnips...if only she had bananas ><
Actually there's a point - can other characters do this on Diddy?

 

[Spelt]

no you can't DI a trip. Every character can do it, and other applications, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPXRrqENknI

 

[AvaricePanda]

the single naner lock going from one edge of the stage to the other was known since 08 but the infinite (standing turn around d-throw) wasn't known since 2010. It's not easy to set up against some characters but it certainly isn't hard; I got 3 set-ups for it in one game yesterday in tournament friendlies (dropped every one of them lol). it can be used to punish OoS but it's not terribly unsafe if you just go for it. If they don't react moderately you'll get away safely, and you can even buffer a grab if you hit their shield lol.

some characters don't get in situations where this can happen often, but against say fox or falco (happens more against fox) if I shield a d-smash I can infinite him. It's usually after I get D-aired but they aren't at the right percent for d-air to d-smash to work but they try it anyway. Just one example.

But honestly the set-up is just a SH d-throw which I sometimes just do anyway. in any case I don't understand why absolutely nobody does this (except dekar sometimes IIRC).

 

[Spelt]

I think the major problem i have with it, and why i never implemented it into my diddy game, is because after an SH dthrow gets shielded/dodge i'm in a very bad position. It just doesn't provide me with as many options as a grounded throw does.

 

[Ussi]

In japan 9B did a single naner lock on a diddy

 

[Spelt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc_Fn2h0YwU

 

[Enzo]

tiers r 4 queeers


/thread

 

[Conviction]

Says the Metaknight main.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi can DJ cancel by throwing a banana which can lead to some insane combos on diddy

 

[stingers]

ness can too.

 

[Z'zgashi]

And i would assume lucas as well, but yoshi's airspeed makes those combos even more amazing

 

[Nefarious B]

You can DI banannas just like any other hit I'm pretty sure. Against a double nanner lock it is beneficial to DI away to end it sooner