The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Dark.Pch]

If one can't explain himself with what he is saying, then they have no biss saying anything to begin with.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Lets just agree to disagree. The tier list will never be accurate; it's just one of those things that is nearly impossible to be accurate because of human error.

I'll give Shaya some props because beiing in charge of a tier list with so many people whining and complaining about “Shaya this...Shaya that.” “Oooh Shaya, you did this wrong! “Hecky naaw is that character better than him!” “This tier list is jacked up!”
I couldn't take all of the complaints so good work!!

 

[Purple]

If a person mains Link, they do just that, Main Link. Knowing how Link works doesn't mean they know how other characters work. That being said, can you really compare yourself to every character in the tier list when you only know one character; probably not. Because of that, we keep Link where is, for the most part we have no reason to change it.

Actually, the Tier list is quite accurate at a certain point. If we use Mid Tier / Low Tier tournaments as results we actually could see who's better, but we don't have those often on a national.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

^^^^
It may be accurate for a short period, but competitive games can change so dramatically. Look @ Melee!

 

[<π]

Be link, our current example, good or bad. There is no proof of this in tournaments. And thats where a majority of the teir list comes from proof on concept.

@ Zelda/Sheik
One character with two movesets. I really think they should be treated this way on the list as well.

 

[Xebenkeck]

it's just you chose a name very memorable to the atl south community.

Sorry for the late responce, but i did pick this name before he unfortunatly passed, and it's not like i can change it, unless there is a way it can be changed that im not aware of . If there is i am more than willing to change it if it bothers you guys.

 

[deepseadiva]

Sorry for the late responce, but i did pick this name before he unfortunatly passed, and it's not like i can change it, unless there is a way it can be changed that im not aware of . If there is i am more than willing to change it if it bothers you guys.

Oh wow, what an unfortunate name choice.

Certain mods have the power to change your name - I'm sure they'll oblige.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Oh wow, what an unfortunate name choice.

Certain mods have the power to change your name - I'm sure they'll oblige.

Certain mods as in higher level ones like Hylian, or any mod, because if its any mod i'll just go to Yink or Levitas.

 

[Blacknight99923]

honestly zelda shiek as one character seems rather dumb to me. Ok you already KNOW what character your opponent is why you would start off as shiek when they are ice climbers is beyond me. Switching in a match isn't really practical one you would just START OFF AS THE CHARACTER YOU WANT instead of switching and risking punishment or wasting time, its common sense.

 

[Purple]

^^^^
It may be accurate for a short period, but competitive games can change so dramatically. Look @ Melee!

Jiggs moving up isn't that dramatic.

 

[<π]

sheik can't kill zelda can.

Zelda has issues forcing approaches and racking damage sheik doesn't.

plenty of reason to switch.

Jiggs will move up next teir list. I promise.

 

[Purple]

How would sheik get the opponent way far enough to switch to zelda. Just curious

 

[Yikarur]

Sheik can kill as good as Zelda lol Sheik has better set-ups too.

 

[Purple]

Yikarur, Zelda is a defensive character that cna kill in potentially one move, hell her moveset is practically a kill move.

 

[#HBC | J]

Jiggs will move up next teir list. I promise.

I'd hope so however she has the same effect as Lucas.

The "who is that again?" no one knows about these two which is quite sad sometimes.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Zekda can kill...
...if she ever actually gets a hit in lol

And I <3 Shaya's answer to Dark's question

A curious question to people - do you think Brawl's metagame will develop to become even more campy? It honestly wouldn't surprise me as things develop, people started to go at greater lengths for avoid approaching at all and timing more and more people out as a method of winning. I feel Wario was just the start

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yes I do, cuz whenever I camp hard, I do better

 

[Ussi]

I tend to have an easier time killing with Sheik, fair and bair do a good job killing/gimping

though some characters are easy bait to Zelda's usmash, sometimes I damage the other guy to the point where i can kill with Sheik already

 

[Dark.Pch]

Random but if anyone wanna see the beast NYC players do thier thing, check oput Bums live stream. He is hosting a smashfest for NYC training. There is nothing here as of head cause I believe people are heading there. But keep an eye on his stream for those interested

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/163rd-super-street-fighter-4-session

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Random but if anyone wanna see the beast NYC players do thier thing, check oput Bums live stream. He is hosting a smashfest for NYC training. There is nothing here as of head cause I believe people are heading there. But keep an eye on his stream for those interested

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/163rd-super-street-fighter-4-session

stream offline...what s he deal dark?

 

[Kadardes]

Mr. Game and Watch absolutely has to move down in the next tier list. I'd actually say at this point the rest of the cast has evolved so much around him that he is probably low tier now.. No chance vs mk at all *shudders*

 

[Chuee]

Wat, Marth is worse for G&W.

 

[Purple]

Maybe you game and watch players should step it up?

 

[Kofu]

Maybe Kadardes is just stupid?

He has a very hard time vs. Meta Knight, and Snake, Marth, and Diddy are all troublesome. The character himself, however, is very solid, with an incredible momentum cancel to counteract his low weight, devilishly strong kill moves, excellent range and priority, and a fantastic recovery.

He is not low tier lol

 

[Flayl]

honestly zelda shiek as one character seems rather dumb to me. Ok you already KNOW what character your opponent is why you would start off as shiek when they are ice climbers is beyond me. Switching in a match isn't really practical one you would just START OFF AS THE CHARACTER YOU WANT instead of switching and risking punishment or wasting time, its common sense.

Double blind or in a counterpick. That was easy.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Wat, Marth is worse for G&W.

When did you get so good at trolling? :o

 

[uhmuzing]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7947788&postcount=53

Not that I have much real exp.....

 

[Chuee]

It's true bro, ask those G&W's.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

You only posted because you saw my name ;D

 

[Conviction]

When did you get so good at trolling? :o

On topic: Zelda/Shiek <- No

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Something I find odd about the zelda/sheik discussion is the fact that she was separated in melee, but now that they're both on the lower side of the spectrum, they want to be combined.

The obv rebuttal is: "zelda covers sheik's weaknesses and some [like 2 >_>] bad MUs, but in melee she didnt need zelda"

There's also the, "This isn't melee" response.

So it seems to me that the problem is How MUCH does shiek needs zelda to consider them being combined?

which is extremely subjective and changes from person to person.

Objectively, you could look at how often sheik turns to zelda, when, etc, but really they should be separate. That's really obv.

Separate in melee, separate in brawl. I don't see why this would change tbh.

 

[KingKirb]

Olimar's been 10th for the LONGEST time..

 

[GwJ]

Someone put ROB in high tier again please.

These rusted joints may not live to work another day in the factory, do this old dadbot one last favor son. Make ROB high tier.

/random

 

[Kaffei]

Someone put ROB in high tier again please.

These rusted joints may not live to work another day in the factory, do this old dadbot one last favor son. Make ROB high tier.

/random

No .

 

[<π]

I've always though sheik and zelda should be combined even in melee. they have always been the same character. If I enter a tourney and I go zelda mid match every match who does my win count for you know? It is not unlike switching from charizard to squirt to get in the kill throw. When you factor in Decay and just a match up in general some times Zelda may be the better option a various points through out the match.

Mmm... sheik has better kill set ups? mmm... kind of. all of sheiks kill set ups are very percent dependant. the high percent kill combos like jab->short->dsmash/nair etc. can be considered high risk in a lot of match ups like ICs D3 jiggs kirby charizard etc. etc.

Zelda dosen't need to combo into kills for the same reasons DK doesn't. Her crap when used inttelegently is ridiculously hard to penetrate (unless you are awesome like sheik). and her bait and punish game is amazing because of her crazy high knock back tilts and aerials... CRAZY high knock back.
While her approach game is very one dimentional and beyond lack luster her zoning tools are amoung the best in the game IMO.

I used to feel Zelda deserved her current spot (and this is a tangent away from the Zelda/sheik deal) but people like Ed!!! and Riot have been putting in work as Zelda against some of the best (even if you may not have heard about it)

 

[SFA Smiley]

When did you get so good at trolling? :o

I think Marth is harder for us too. MK is hard but we have quirks against him and we move better in the air. Marth just seems like he was created to shut GW down sometimes and dying to tippered Fsmashes is just discouraging...

 

[Z'zgashi]

I do like how snake can duck under all of zelda's ko options tho lol

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Snake can duck under Dsmash? That's shocking. Also pretty sure he can't duck under Fsmash since nobody can.



Anyway, I always play Zelda/Sheik. as oposed to Zelda or Sheik

 

[Z'zgashi]

I didn't know fsmash would hit, but dsmash can be easily teched while ducking

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think Zelda and Sheik should only be listed as separate characters if Pokémon Trainer is listed as three separate characters, but I imagine it is how it is in order to keep Low Tier tournament rules from being unnecessarily complicated.

If you're not aware, it is possible to play as a single Pokémon, as fatigue is multiplied by 0.3x when a Pokémon is KO'd. I should do it one time just to be silly.