The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[MK26]

lolwut? I'm the one that brought up Lucario so I feel like I should say something. Moving the match from 65:35 to 45:55 because he becomes a camping machine and he can gimp his up B isn't exactly fair. The trouble about gimping Luke's up B is that he doesn't use it often. Proper DI, air dodging, fair and just drifting actually makes it very hard to gimp Lucario. In most situations the only time he'll actually have to up B is if he doesn't DI properly which usually isn't the case in higher level play. Kirby also doesn't camp that well with Aura Sphere. In context you make it sound like ROB's laser when not nearly that good.

As far as Toon Link goes I feel 50:50 is fair. Toon Link can outcamp always but gets owned up close. Kirby attacks way faster and TL's lightness doesn't help survivability. Stages come into play here a lot. Any campy stage and TL >> Kirby any close stage Kirby = TL. It sucks to be CPed by a TL.

What i mean is, if Kirby did not have these two attributes, Lucario would more than likely have a 65-35 advantage. However, Kirby does, and the matchup is closer because of it.

And with the TL matchup...jiovanni's second last sentence is the textbook definition of a 60-40 advantage, but i dont think that its quite that bad for kirby

 

[Sosuke]

Get Asdioh in here. He somewhat knows both sides.

I want him to post his thoughts before I do cuz he probably knows more. ._.

 

[Asdioh]

Get Asdioh in here. He somewhat knows both sides.

I want him to post his thoughts before I do cuz he probably knows more. ._.

gahh

*hides*

I already posted my thoughts in a similar thread not too long ago...I don't remember if it was on the TL or Kirby boards though.

Anyway, I think my opinion was that it was generally even, but could swing in either's favor depending on what their playstyle is and how they adapt.

For example, a superspammy Toon Link will be kinda hard for Kirby to beat.

One that comes in melee range is easier.



Umm...Kirby's Bair works pretty well against TL. TL's bair works pretty well against Kirby. TL's easiest KO moves are upsmash and upair. Kirby's are fsmash and...well, that's the easiest one anyway. He has a bunch of others, but it depends on positioning and damage percents.

I don't know, it's 50-50 imo, unless he's an extreme projectile spammer and it's wifi, then it's like 65-35 TL =_=

Spoiler

watch out for Toon Links that spam dtilt!

 

[jiovanni007]

What i mean is, if Kirby did not have these two attributes, Lucario would more than likely have a 65-35 advantage. However, Kirby does, and the matchup is closer because of it.

And with the TL matchup...jiovanni's second last sentence is the textbook definition of a 60-40 advantage, but i dont think that its quite that bad for kirby

Well I exaggerated a bit, only a few levels are extremely hard for Kirby. The only one that pops out in my head right now is Japes. I'm tempted to say its 45-55. There's no way that match is 30:70. On levels where TL can't camp well, bair gets rid of all projectiles except for bombs which are easily SHAD'd. I think 45:55 is probably very fair.

I'm still not convinced the Lucario match is 45:55, I've played two amazing Lucario players somewhat frequently and still fail to see how you could think the match is that close. Camping Lucario isn't as easy as you make it seem since he moves faster than you, killing Lucario is outside of a gimp is also very difficult due to fsmash. The lack of lag and speedower ratio on that move is crazy. The scenario is that spotdodges are oftentimes outlasted and rolls aren't quick enough. If he decides to go to the air, dair and nair can be used to lag cancel his moves and leads right into a jab which leads right into a >B. Range, power, and survivability all make this match-up bad. About survivability, try to land a fsmash on a Lucario, if you get more than one that player is more than likely bad or being very careless. That leaves your gimp game which is very hard since its not easy to get him off the stage in the first place.

 

[Gnes]

It seems only about 4 Kirbys has experience with the tinkster...

 

[SheerMadness]

55-45 Kirby

 

[Percon]

I've played some good TL's and I don't think this matchup is anything scary.

Both characters can edgeguard the other well (though TL's are more afraid to go for the spike)

TL's projectiles, I find, aren't that big of an issue. Bombs are the most annoying of the three - just learn the arrows' limitations and you'll be golden. The arrows and boomerang move so slowly that powershielding them should be pretty easy.

Bombs, once again, are annoying, but need pulling out. Plus, you can take advantage of the fact that he can only throw in the 4 cardinal directions if you play your cards right. If you can catch the bombs, you're a happy camper. Only, you won't be camping because the bombs are very useful tools for pressuring. Makes me wish kirby had them all the time. Oh well. Remeber that the timer of TL's bombs is pretty generous, so you'll always have time to do something.

Kirby's short so TL's Zair won't be a huge deal. As far as his kill moves go, he's got usmash and uair. Be wary of both and watch your airdodges. Bomb -> fair is nasty, too, but easier to see coming.

TL's fsmash is trash. Dsmash is ok (and sometimes does really weird things) but doesn't kill until later.

Try to never get caught below the stage. TL's bombs, bair and dair will spike/stage spike the slow-moving (vertically) kirby. It's not certain death, but it's a bad place to be.

Good news, though - if his monster double jump doesn't get him back, he's done for. Our dair > spin attack, every time. A lot of TL's like using bombs while coming back; don't worry about those, even if you get hit you'll still be in a favorable position to edgeguard. You can also intercept his double jump sometimes with a bair stagespike or dair (just run off the stage - don't jump off; it's a lot easier to catch them off guard this way). Also, stone beats his upB, too, if you feel like being flashy.

TL's don't use ftilt or dtilt too much, and if I recall correctly neither are amazing.

OUR ftilt makes a great poke and sets up for edgeguards at higher percents. Bair works well, as usual.

Fsmash is the main killer here if you don't get a gimp/edgeguard. Punish dairs with it (spotdoge>fsmash) at higher percents. Uh... usmash works. Dtilt -> running usmash is fun sometimes but not guarenteed.

He's pretty good for getting with fthrow combos from 0. Even if he breaks out he'll be doing so with his double jump in which case you should persue his scrawny behind and try to land some bairs so that he's jumpless and off the stage.

He's got a nasty sheildgrab and ok throws. Nothing is guarenteed vs.kirby but they can land utils or bairs from som throws at low #s and his bthrow sends kirby at a semi-dangerous angle IIRC.

Try and grab release him at the edge then running off with a Bair for a potential stage spike. Works ok on TL. Doesn't always work but is pretty safe, so long as you get up right away if it doesn't connect.

Finally, I guess, our jab flurry spaces him decently. heh.

60-40 kirby? or 55-45.

Hope that helps.

 

[Asdioh]

55-45 Kirby

Not such a great post.

everything Percon said

Great post.

You've convinced me of 55-45 Kirby. Still, watch out for Toon Link's back air.

 

[Percon]

Yeah, all his aerials are good, nair and zair aren't AS much of a problem for kirby as other characters but bair is still great because of how low it sweeps. Watch out for bair crossovers into whatever (dair/nair/grab?)

 

[MakoMako]

A good TL that is very familiar with kirby can escape all of his throw combos ;__; and punish with dair which is pretty gay at low % (except fthrow fair chaingrab which is pretty neat)

 

[MK26]

I dont have the time to update the OP, but we're doing Wa-Wa-Wario this week

TL will be changed to 55-45 in our favour

 

[Ace55]

Actually played a lot of matches (including a tourney set) against a Kirby main at my last tourney. I'd say the matchup is pretty even.

Kirby has a little more range, Wario has more aerial control. One on one most of Kirby's moves beat out Wario, but that's true for most of Wario's matchups and he gets around it using said aerial movement/control.

Kirby has little defense to chomp (I think only his hammer is disjointed enough to hit Wario out of it, maybe bair) but so does Wario, and Kirby can obviously steal it.

Kirby probably racks damage a little easier, Wario kills sooner. Kirby's smashes and hammer kill Wario sooner than he's used to though.

Overal I'd say they have an answer to each others options, making it a interesting matchup.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Nom nom nom

 

[Tiersie]

Actually played a lot of matches (including a tourney set) against a Kirby main at my last tourney. I'd say the matchup is pretty even.

Kirby has a little more range, Wario has more aerial control. One on one most of Kirby's moves beat out Wario, but that's true for most of Wario's matchups and he gets around it using said aerial movement/control.

Kirby has little defense to chomp (I think only his hammer is disjointed enough to hit Wario out of it, maybe bair) but so does Wario, and Kirby can obviously steal it.

Kirby probably racks damage a little easier, Wario kills sooner. Kirby's smashes and hammer kill Wario sooner than he's used to though.

Overal I'd say they have an answer to each others options, making it a interesting matchup.

Welke kirby?

10kirbies

 

[g2g4l]

My thoughts are that looking in the big view of things 55:45 in warios favor

 

[g2g4l]

Kirby is a amazing racker and has quite a few kill move wario has this way of just building damage at first then goading you to make a mistake then killing you with the punishment

 

[Asdioh]

I haven't played any really good Warios :[

I'm afraid to though. I know I managed to escape playing Tink at a couple tourneys.

Really though. A good Wario is a scary thought for me.

Kirby can gimp Wario pretty easily, right? I'm GUESSING this is CLOSE to 50-50, but possibly slightly in Kirby's favor, because of gimps, and Copying his power turns Kirby into a god XD

 

[MK26]

Who likes my sexy new avatar?

(I have nothing to contribute to this discussion, except Kirby may have some sort of grab release stuff on a Wario hanging over the ledge)

 

[Percon]

I'll write some stuff later, but you should all probably know that Kirby can't grab release Wario on flat ground because he's too short. It's too bad - some characters like Peach, DDD and Snake make a living grab releasing Wario into all kinds of nasty stuff.

Once, though, I was on Delphino and I ran past a Wario and pivot grabbed him on the stairs, and since his feet weren't touching the ground I got a free usmash KO. It was a good time.

As I said, write up later, but for now I'd say 60-40 for Wario.

 

[Lord Viper]

Wow, I can't believe 60-40 Wario, I really can't believe that. I think it's the other way around.

Kirby has better tilts, he can gimp Wario almost all the time when he tries to comeback. Kirby's Smash attacks have better range, I won't say more killing power but his Up-Smash compare to Wario's. Also, when Kirby takes his Basic-B, he will chew on Wario like bubble gum because of how many ways that Kirby can trap Wario with it.

I would say Wario has more killing moves, his N-Air is fast, his Side-B makes a suprise attack almost all the time. It's hard to gimp him off the stage if your not use to fighting Wario. Also, he's fat and fast when it comes to his moves.... you know what, I can't really tell myself, I'll say 60-40 Kirby, but it's most likely around the 55 or 50 area though.

 

[DMG]

Wario vs Kirby is like 55:45 for Wario. It's really a dumb matchup, Kirby can just play safe with Bair all day and Wario can just weave around with airdodges.

Main points in the matchup are that Wario has better kill options and does more damage on his moves (Other than Kirby doing something like Fthrow to Uair near the beginning). Wario's edge is only slight IMO.

Wario is hard to gimp, he is not a sitting duck while recovering and he is rarely in danger of being successfully edgeguarded by Kirby. What Kirby can do is harass him some but it's not common for Kirby to really get too far with Wario off stage.

Either side can just decide to play really safe and just not approach or dodge the approaches of the other character. It's why I just pick a different character instead of moving around for minutes at a time doing fakeouts and airdodges against Kirby lol.

 

[Retroend]

i faced a wario main by the name of samus abe. thats the 1st time i ever fough a wario. and let me tell you, wario is sooo gay! seriously, he's too fast for a heavyweight. his aerial movement is ridiculous. his bike is soo gay!!! i hate the fact that he has heavy armor frames (i hate that new installation in brawl more than tripping to be honest. what makes heavyweights so special? *thinking of snake and ddd*) i hate his down air so much its like almost broken in some ways. for me it was hard to approach. i can't even hit him with my new retro combo because he can't simply jump and he's not a fast faller either. although taking his power is useful, but i find it difficult to pull off. either way, i was close at beating him, but i lost (stupid fsmash with stupid heavy armor!)

so i'd say 50-50 for both in my opinion. i just need a way to fight him in the air more efficiently. what do you guys think?

 

[Gnes]

Wario vs Kirby is like 55:45 for Wario. It's really a dumb matchup, Kirby can just play safe with Bair all day and Wario can just weave around with airdodges.

Main points in the matchup are that Wario has better kill options and does more damage on his moves (Other than Kirby doing something like Fthrow to Uair near the beginning). Wario's edge is only slight IMO.

Wario is hard to gimp, he is not a sitting duck while recovering and he is rarely in danger of being successfully edgeguarded by Kirby. What Kirby can do is harass him some but it's not common for Kirby to really get too far with Wario off stage.

Either side can just decide to play really safe and just not approach or dodge the approaches of the other character. It's why I just pick a different character instead of moving around for minutes at a time doing fakeouts and airdodges against Kirby lol.

Basically...me and DMG played in tourney...and what he says is exactly what happened...the funny part...the match went over the timer...i won by 2%...i won the 2nd match when he CP'd GaW...this matchup is either 50-50 or 55-45 warios favor just cuz moves like the CLAP come out so fast...for kirby to win...he has to perfectly space his bairs and wait for wario to use on of his few laggy moves then punish...Also...a perfect(not fully charged foos) wario fart will kirby at 70%...just a side note...ill write more later even though the matchup is pretty simple

 

[Ace55]

Welke kirby?

10kirbies

Sinnoh (ofzoiets).

Probably played like 20+ matches against him, but a lot of it was with me using PKMN trainer, Mario or Ganondorf.

 

[Percon]

I wouldn't expect to be gimping a wario too often. They usually use the bike to recover really high and make spiking pretty hard. Maybe you can greab release >dair > footstool on the edge though? I should try that... (though it probably won't work)

It's a good idea for Kirby to take the bite, but IMO wario can use it a bit better. It's still super useful, though. This is the kind of matchup where there won't be a whole lot of shielding, for that reason and a few others.

Bair is our biggest asset in this matchup, as was mentionned.

I say 60-40 Wario (maybe 55-45) just because Wario will have an easier time landing a kill and has better edgeguarding in this match. Kirby might play a better defensive game, though...

 

[Blad01]

Falco Boards are currently discussing Kirby match-up, please contribute : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209561.

 

[johnnylaw505]

I did not see a wolf discussion yet so I may have missed it. But if there has not been, someone please give me an impromptu match up of what to do against wolf, PLEASE HALP!

 

[Asdioh]

I did not see a wolf discussion yet so I may have missed it. But if there has not been, someone please give me an impromptu match up of what to do against wolf, PLEASE HALP!

At 0%, fthrow->uair->fthrow->uair->ftilt/fsmash/something else combo works well. Be careful of his Reflector though, it comes out quick, has invincibility frames around startup, and is a C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER. If your opponent is a good Wolf, he will use Reflector after your first fthrow->uair. You can shield this and then grab again.

At low % again, uptilt juggles him and it will be a while before he can escape it. The easiest way for him to escape it is again, Reflector. If you see it coming, shield and grab him to punish it.

Watch out for his Blaster...Copy his power if you get the chance, it will come in useful, unless you think you can gimp him with Starshot.

Gimping his Up B is pretty easy, but don't even try it on his Side B because it won't work, and you might get spiked.

If he's spamming dsmash/fsmash/blaster, just punish with shield grabs and back air. If you're playing on wifi, spammy Wolf players are ridiculously annoying @_@

I don't know what else to say....watch out for his Back air....it comes out quick and ends quickly, and is strong with good priority. I don't know if it outprioritizes yours, but he can spam it quicker. Watch out for his Reflector, it has a huge range.

KO him with Fsmash for the most part, or gimps. Watch out for his upair or forward air when you are at high percents. Watch out for his Dair spike when you're offstage. Watch out for his Downsmash when you're in close on the stage, it's his best KO move.

Wolf is a pretty even matchup for Kirby, you can do it :O
(I personally think Kirby has the advantage)

 

[johnnylaw505]

Thank you very much. Ill inform you what happens.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Be prepared for a campy wolf, all wolfs play the same lol

 

[Lord Viper]

Be prepared for a campy wolf, all wolfs play the same lol

Um, if you play them online, lol. Wait.... when did we go to Wolf? I thought thought he comes later in this thread, lol. Back to Wario's case... update your picture MK26

 

[MK26]

I don't feel lke getting a Wario pic. The discussion's dead anyway. Let's start a new one instead.

Awoo!

Character: Wolf

Did I get the wrong one?​

Difficulty rating: 50-50?​

Fire away.

 

[jiovanni007]

Be prepared for a campy wolf, all bad wolfs play the same lol

fix'd

I've played 2 good wolf players. One's my roomie so I get plenty of practice and the other I met at a tourney and live a city over. Wolf is really nothing to play with and has much more than laser spam. Only bad wolfs are fsmash, dsmash, and laser spammers. Just to prepare you, there's much more you need to be ready for. First off bair. Its his main gimper and very powerful. It can gimp Kirby with DI ~80% fresh but isn't typically fresh. It also autocancels on the ground so watch out for the bair -> ftilt. A good Wolf player recognizes the fact that his killing power lies in his smashes and will build damage in other ways. His Jab combo isn't that fast initially but if you get caught its pretty painful. His Nair has REDICULOUS priority but acts weird sometimes with the knockback, but autocancels so look out for it anyway. Fair is laggy so if he ffs it then punish accordingly. Just remeber once you're about 80~90% to watch out for all of smash attacks. Dsmash is very fast and can KO early when fresh, and good wolf players will keep it fresh since they have jab, fair, bair, ftilt, and blaster to build damage. Fsmash has a very deceptive range and moves quick so I normally play it safe instead of trying to punish if they charge it for a bit. The most important part is to never kirbycide. Bair beats out inhale 100% of the time. If you try to Kirbycide, you just wasted a chance to put the match moreso in your favor.

Outside of that, this is a very good match and Kirby still does have weapons. Wolf isn't as easy to gimp as the other spacies because of the angle of his ->B and ledge hugging is iffy since it spikes at the end. Best advice is to combo early, keep him in the air and watch for the reflector. 6 frames of invincibility will **** you over more times than you think. The knockback isn't as uber as Fox's or Falco's but its enough to annoy you and tick on some unwanted damage.

Match is easily 50-50

/Wolf
next char plz =)

 

[MK26]

Sure.

Transfooorm powers, go!

Difficulty rating: 40-60

Wolverine powers, go!

Difficulty rating: 60-40

Character: Zelda/Sheik​

​

Spoiler

2 characters a week, starting now.

 

[Zankoku]

Kirby completely destroys Sheik

I agree.

 

[sniperworm]

I know this isn't the primary focus of the thread, but doesn't completely destroying a character constitute a large advantage (so, higher than 60-40)?

 

[MK26]

I know this isn't the primary focus of the thread, but doesn't completely destroying a character constitute a large advantage (so, higher than 60-40)?

It's called mindgames, son.

 

[Villi]

There's no point to being Sheik in this match. Her ftilt is over powered by fsmash at close range, bair out prioritizes her, forward throw combos and uptilts are ****, dair setups are sometimes difficult to avoid. Blarg, Kirby is difficult.

Zelda has it easier, but Kirby can still be a pain with bair camping.

 

[ArcPoint]

fix'd

Outside of that, this is a very good match and Kirby still does have weapons. Wolf isn't as easy to gimp as the other spacies because of the angle of his ->B and ledge hugging is iffy since it spikes at the end. Best advice is to combo early, keep him in the air and watch for the reflector. 6 frames of invincibility will **** you over more times than you think. The knockback isn't as uber as Fox's or Falco's but its enough to annoy you and tick on some unwanted damage.

Match is easily 50-50

/Wolf
next char plz =)

The side B only spikes if you're not invincible, since the side be recovery is fairly predictable... you should be able to edgehog with enough invincibility. Just don't stay there for 3 seconds expecting to get the edgehog. Oh and if they don't do their up B right, you can edgehog them everytime.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

i wish i could argue against Kirby having advantage over Sheik but can't heh