The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[jiovanni007]

The side B only spikes if you're not invincible, since the side be recovery is fairly predictable... you should be able to edgehog with enough invincibility. Just don't stay there for 3 seconds expecting to get the edgehog. Oh and if they don't do their up B right, you can edgehog them everytime.

well duh...I was moreso leaning towards the fact that Wolf doesn't have to be directly in line with the stage to get to the ledge. he can actually feint ur invincibility and still spike you whereas against fox and falco u can ledge hug when they're above the stage and still get them but if you do that against wolf u risk dieing. Everyone know Wolf's ^b is bad

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So you guys need help with Wolf? Idk what to say here it's pretty straightforward actually. Just combo Wolf to ~50% as usual and then try to KO him before he KOs you. Wolf has more range and speed than Kirby but Kirbys combos and his mighty fsmash even the match out. You really shouldn't care about gimping Wolf, as good DI can take care of that. Idk though if Kirby has a move that puts Wolf in a gimpable position but I do know that Swallow Release -> Footstool jump works offstage

I suggest that you spotdodge -> dashgrab a lot. Wolf will probably abuse his bair. If he goes at max range and DIs away you can't punish him OoS. But if you spotdodge it a grab is normally guaranteed. This works for some of his moves but not all of them so don't be too predictable. Just grab alot to deal dmg after comboing Wolf. Fsmash is nice to keep fresh since Wolf is quite heavy and a stale KO move = bad KO move.

Approaching might be a bit difficult but if you hawk around in the air and mix up Airdodge -> grabs and dairs it should work. I think the main issue is really landing the KO on Wolf, especially with fsmash. Against campy Wolves it's usually a bad idea to use KO moves with longer startup animations since he can shine through most of these moves. Don't try to force a KO if you feel like landing the fsmash is too hard. Dealing dmg shouldn't be a problem so rather go for higher % and use something else to KO him unless you have an easy time to land fsmash.

Lylat Cruise is usually a guaranteed win vs Wolf so he'll always ban it...RC may also be good.

5/5 sounds fair to me

 

[ArcPoint]

Few things that are incorrect about Gheb's statement... spotdodge to dash grab won't get a well spaced Bair. Dash grabs take longer to start up as well as the extra frames taken by initiating a dash, so this allows Wolf to spotdodge (Or fsmash mind you), and a spotdodge to a standing grab won't do it against a well spaced Bair. The only way to punish Bair is to predict it, or outprioritize it. I don't think you can punish it out of a defensive option (Spotdodge, Shield) you could roll behind Wolf... but I suppose that'd involve predicting ^_^.

And Lylat cruise is by NO means a guaranteed win against Wolf. It just increases the chance of a stage mess up, you should not counterpick Lylat cruise thinking "Oh hey, I'm guaranteed a win/gimp on Wolf now!"

Rainbow cruise isn't a bad choice, the priority above and below Wolf is crap, so yeah, that could work to your favor.

Also, I'm pretty sure Kirby's Dair > Wolf's up B, and from there it's just an edgehog, so yeah, make use of that.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Suspect Cruise, ***** wolf

 

[TechnoMonster]

Techno's Wolf strategy:
0%, hop around and spot for a grab, combo F-throw, u-air, f-smash, and then go for a gimp with D-airs. If this works then sweet, if not then he's at 40% or so and will be more careful about getting grabbed. From there jump over stuff and pressure with d-air and b-air, and try not to stand still, and eventually kill with f-smash. None of this is guaranteed of course, but it seems to work pretty **** well. I also go for a lot of grabs and get my grab hits in to reset my diminishing returns and put Wolf in the air.

After that it's all just a matter of dealing with common Wolf problems, like his smashes and his dodge->jab, and his lasers. If you find yourself getting spot-dodged a lot, use your dash attack more often. If the Wolf tends to throw out more than one smash in a row, after the first smash, simply d-air him, and you should beat the second smash. If there are a lot of lasers flying around, just jump over them and d-air his face.

I'd say 65-35 Kirby.

--

Sheik:
Needles can be a pain, as can the f-tilt. Sheik really needs a better way to get around your B-air spam though to be really viable against Kirby. 70-30 as well.

Zelda:
WTF Zelda is what I usually think when I play against her. She kills you at low percents and has a lot of meaty priority, so you basically have to mindgame her into doing things that you can beat out. I like to do the same as I do against Wolf, go for grabs to build damage and get her in the air so I can mindgame her landing.

For the record, however, her downsmash ***** your recovery, so try to grab on with jumps where you can.

 

[fromundaman]

Kirby's dash grab is actually fairly fast, thoug it has some lag at the end of it. Meh, I dunno, I've never played a good Wolf.
Also, can Wolf DI far enough away to be out of range of a standing pivot grab?
Finally, can Wolf be inhaled out of Fsmash?

 

[M@v]

kirby must be afraid of zelda's upsmash. VERY afraid.

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

kirby must be afraid of zelda's upsmash. VERY afraid.

Kirby can Smash DI out of it if you're good enough. And once you learn where the hitboxes are, it's not as big of a deal as you would think.

 

[Ishiey]

For wolf: I'm going with about 50-50. Most of the other people have it covered, comboing wolf out of a throw at the beginning is a good idea, but (not entirely sure) he might be able to shine out. Wolf's shine is handy against kirby overall, and a well-done bair is ridiculously difficult, if not impossible to punish. Inhale > footstool works well, and in general if wolf recovers from below you can **** him with dair. The priority on sideB isn't too great, I'd try to intercept it with bair or dair in the middle, that should work well. As long as you can get wolf to recover from below and edgeguard you'll do fine, but otherwise it'll likely be an uphill battle.

EDIT: forgot about stages. Umm... honestly, rainbow cruise sounds like a good idea, like everyone else said. Lylat isn't that bad for wolf (just ledges), and the ledges mostly gimp upB, but if wolf is recovering with upB you should be dairing him anyways, so its kind of useless to CP Lylat.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm wondering how the chain does against Kirby. I assume that he can just down b from above correct?

 

[ungulateman]

Zelda Usmash <<<<<<<<< Stone.

10stoners

 

[Asdioh]

I'm wondering how the chain does against Kirby. I assume that he can just down b from above correct?

He can do that, or Final Cutter.

Personally, I'm terrified of Zelda AND Sheik on wifi, but offline, I wouldn't worry too much. Zelda would still be tough because her Fsmash and Upsmash are hard to get around, but not impossible.

I wish I had more experience with the matchup though....I wish I had more offline experience in general T_T

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

my friend plays zelda, and i play sheik so i basically know how to deal with them. Zelda you basically just need to be patient, she is slow >_>.

 

[Kenrawr]

For wolf: I'm going with about 50-50. Most of the other people have it covered, comboing wolf out of a throw at the beginning is a good idea, but (not entirely sure) he might be able to shine out. Wolf's shine is handy against kirby overall, and a well-done bair is ridiculously difficult, if not impossible to punish. Inhale > footstool works well, and in general if wolf recovers from below you can **** him with dair. The priority on sideB isn't too great, I'd try to intercept it with bair or dair in the middle, that should work well. As long as you can get wolf to recover from below and edgeguard you'll do fine, but otherwise it'll likely be an uphill battle.

EDIT: forgot about stages. Umm... honestly, rainbow cruise sounds like a good idea, like everyone else said. Lylat isn't that bad for wolf (just ledges), and the ledges mostly gimp upB, but if wolf is recovering with upB you should be dairing him anyways, so its kind of useless to CP Lylat.

Agreed, rainbow cruise and lylat cruise are great o.0

55:45, Kirby:Wolf imo. Gonzo combo is a ***** and kirby can kinda be a tough guy to camp. Plus Wolf's heavyness factor isn't that big of a deal since kirby has some awesome finishers. Along with the occasional kirbycides and gimping.

 

[RoyalBlood]

If Kirby is recovering with Final Cutter onto the stage, Zelda can jump above him and it's almost guaranteed that she'll sweetspot her dair >=3
And you should also be wary of where are you going to Stone since Zelda's Uair can take Kirby out of it if he hasn't fully transformed and I don't know if it's because Kirby is puffy and round and soft :3 that you can sweetspot him easily? <--------Question

 

[Kataefi]

Well, why Zelda would get hit by the stone or any of his down b's is way beyond me.

Also... there's this misconception that Zelda is really slow. This is only in movement. Attack-wise, she's really fast. Her smashes are amongst some of the fastest smashes in the game, if not the fastest.

She covers all angles. I can't see how kirby would be able to penetrate her >.>... FSmash outprioritises his own fsmash, and comes out slightly faster I think (though not tested). USmash covers his aerials (hyphen Usmashing for his SH approaches). Up-angled ftilts are great for diagonal approaches, and she has dsmash, nayrus, dtilt and jab for everything else.

He's powerful, but she's ridiculously powerful too, and has this ridiculous priority that she'll abuse at every opportunity.

Does the dtilt lock work on kirby? If it's effective, that's his FSmash gone right there.

The only annoyance with kirby is his amazing jab. I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best jabs in the game in terms of speed and range ^^ He can poke Zelda safely with it I think.

 

[jiovanni007]

Well, why Zelda would get hit by the stone or any of his down b's is way beyond me.

Also... there's this misconception that Zelda is really slow. This is only in movement. Attack-wise, she's really fast. Her smashes are amongst some of the fastest smashes in the game, if not the fastest.

She covers all angles. I can't see how kirby would be able to penetrate her >.>... FSmash outprioritises his own fsmash, and comes out slightly faster I think (though not tested). USmash covers his aerials (hyphen Usmashing for his SH approaches). Up-angled ftilts are great for diagonal approaches, and she has dsmash, nayrus, dtilt and jab for everything else.

He's powerful, but she's ridiculously powerful too, and has this ridiculous priority that she'll abuse at every opportunity.

Does the dtilt lock work on kirby? If it's effective, that's his FSmash gone right there.

The only annoyance with kirby is his amazing jab. I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best jabs in the game in terms of speed and range ^^ He can poke Zelda safely with it I think.

Pretty good, you beat me to it, Zelda is not at all easy for Kirby. But when He's referring to the stone he means using it when she tries to usmash you on the way down. The only thing is that Kirby can DI out of her fsmash and usmash with ease but Zelda's tilts are pretty potent too (though utilt is a bit on the slow side). In this match its all about punishment. Both characters have to punish each other to get ahead. Its just slightly harder for Kirby to punish Zelda so i would say its 60-40.

 

[Gnes]

Not that i have alot of matchup experience since no player in Texas plays zelda but heres my points

Zeldas moves do have alot of priority in comparison to kirbys, but, her moves also have a significant amount of duration which should lead to easy punishment. Her u-smash shouldnt kill u if u know how to smash D.I out of it and even if u dont D.ing to the corner isnt that difficult...Her down-smash is good but once against D.I is your friend..

Kirby however is pretty out-ranged in this matchup...which doesnt make it in zelda's favor...

Gimping zelda should be extremely easy considering her recovery sucks...She has to recover high so edgehogging her will lead to recovering on the stage which is instant punishment...

Theoretically kirby should be dying first since zelda is heavier than him...Zelda has good kill moves and can afford to spam them while kirby cant...if kirby whiffs a f-smash and hes in kill range(maybe 95-110%) hes gone...Din's fire should not qualify considering who really gets hit by this...really...

I think the biggest struggle is trying to stop being super K.Oed by Zeldas fair and bair since kirby aerial game is so essential to his overall game hell be in the air alot...Im pretty sure a sweet-spotted bair from Zelda will Kirby at 90% if hes at a reasonable part of the stage maybe lower percents but i havent tested it.

Also...i dont think any grab combos work particularly well on zelda...which isnt nice at all

 

[Asdioh]

Does the dtilt lock work on kirby? If it's effective, that's his FSmash gone right there.

Yes it does, unless I don't know how to DI out of it. It's freaking ********. Her legs are really long or something @_@ and you just stay in the same spot as she kicks you repeatedly.

When I played noobier Zeldas, I prioritized copying her power. That's because they all spammed Din's Fire, and Nayru's Love nullifies her projectile spam COMPLETELY. It's also pretty useful up close, but hers is bigger of course -_- sigh@gimpy Kirby

Anyway, 60-40 seems right to me. Wish I played more good Zeldas. She's even harder on wifi, since it's about spacing and punishment, which is hard on wifi when you have little room for error.


I'm just going to take this post to organize my thoughts into what I think Kirby's matchups look like. This is mostly my personal opinion and experience...I'm doing this half to show you, and half so I know what I think myself XD

55-45 or higher Kirby's disadvantage:
Donkey Kong
G&W
Dedede
Lucario
Marth
Meta Knight
Ness
Olimar
Snake
Toon Link
Wario
Zelda

55-45 or higher Kirby's advantage:
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ike
Jigglypuff
Link
Lucas
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Sheik
Sonic
Wolf

50-50
Ice Climbers
Peach
Pikachu

Undecided, probably 50-50 for now:
Diddy Kong (they always own me, but maybe I'm doing something wrong)
Luigi (crazy combo ability and great kill moves...I'm not sure whose favor it would be in)
Mario (possibly Kirby's favor, but Mario is not to be underestimated)
ROB (it's supposedly in ROB's favor, but I kick the crap out of most ROB players, I fail to see what is so difficult. I'm considering putting it 55-45 Kirby)
Yoshi (I got utterly ***** by a Yoshi recently, I had no idea wtf to do. It's probably 50-50, but his pivot grab is too good)
Zero Suit Samus (how many good ZSS players are there really? I got destroyed by one recently, the range and combos are amazing, and the kill potential is definitely there)



Well that was fun. XD

If you really care about my opinion, you can ask me why I think the way I do about certain matchups.

 

[Triple_R2]

Since we are on Zelda I'd like to state that I also find copying her ability useful. As Asdioh mentioned, it cancels out Din's Fire, which is very useful. Plus Naryu's Love beats out Zelda's second part of the Teleportation, where you usually get burned for being in her way. I'm sure there's better ways to punish her, but it's flashy to Naryu Love her when she appears again instead of usual getting hit when she appears.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

@ Asidoh

Why is Kirby at a disadvantage to Dedede?

 

[Mr_Orion]

Dude, this is a huge help.
Let's see my brother stop me now...

 

[Kataefi]

I seem to catch a lot of kirby's with SH Uairs. This starts killing from 60+%

Bair will kill him a lot sooner than 90%. It kills peach outright from the centre of FD around 60+% with no DI, with DI it's around 80+%. And kirby's a lot lighter.

As for her recovery, there is significantly less lag when she teleports onto the ground, as opposed to in the air. If you edge hog, she'll go for the ground and you may not be able to catch her in time. Her teleport is laggy, but you've still got to be moderately fast regardless to punish.

 

[Asdioh]

Is Kirby really lighter than Peach? I don't know, but I honestly thought he was heavier.

@ Asidoh

Why is Kirby at a disadvantage to Dedede?

Well...first I should say that I just consider it 55-45 D3's favor, and it's negotiable.

My reasons are:
Kirby can combo D3 due to his big size and stuff, but D3 has power (one backthrow does 16% damage...Kirby's fthrow->uair combo does 18%...and of course D3's grab range is huuuuge) and stuff. D3 also has good KO moves (Uptilt is really fast and hard to punish, fresh Bair is amazing, his smashes are all slow, but long range and powerful.

I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, D3 just has more range and power than Kirby. As far as gimping goes...I'm not sure who's more likely to gimp who. I'd say D3 has the easier time gimping though.

If you want to be technical about it, I think these would be the results if you were to compare attacking each other move for move:
D3 dair > Kirby uair
D3 Uair > Kirby Dair
D3 Bair > Kirby Bair
D3 Fair > Kirby fair
D3 Nair > Kirby nair
D3 dtilt > Kirby dtilt
D3 ftilt > Kirby ftilt
D3 utilt > Kirby utilt

Now obviously that's an exaggeration. I don't have THAT hard of a time while fighting Dededes, but it just seems to me like he has a slight edge. Dedede players with great spacing are going to be hellish to beat. But it's satisfying comboing the crap out of those big characters anyway :]

Maybe I'm bitter because I lost to some noob D3 on wifi that camped under a platform with side B, uptilt, grabs, and fsmash. :[

I had totally TRASHED him the week before because he said he needed practice against Kirbys, but when it came to this ladder match, he won. I don't get it.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

Is Kirby really lighter than Peach? I don't know, but I honestly thought he was heavier.

Well...first I should say that I just consider it 55-45 D3's favor, and it's negotiable.

My reasons are:
Kirby can combo D3 due to his big size and stuff, but D3 has power (one backthrow does 16% damage...Kirby's fthrow->uair combo does 18%...and of course D3's grab range is huuuuge) and stuff. D3 also has good KO moves (Uptilt is really fast and hard to punish, fresh Bair is amazing, his smashes are all slow, but long range and powerful.

I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, D3 just has more range and power than Kirby. As far as gimping goes...I'm not sure who's more likely to gimp who. I'd say D3 has the easier time gimping though.

If you want to be technical about it, I think these would be the results if you were to compare attacking each other move for move:
D3 dair > Kirby uair
D3 Uair > Kirby Dair
D3 Bair > Kirby Bair
D3 Fair > Kirby fair
D3 Nair > Kirby nair
D3 dtilt > Kirby dtilt
D3 ftilt > Kirby ftilt
D3 utilt > Kirby utilt

Now obviously that's an exaggeration. I don't have THAT hard of a time while fighting Dededes, but it just seems to me like he has a slight edge. Dedede players with great spacing are going to be hellish to beat. But it's satisfying comboing the crap out of those big characters anyway :]

Maybe I'm bitter because I lost to some noob D3 on wifi that camped under a platform with side B, uptilt, grabs, and fsmash. :[

I had totally TRASHED him the week before because he said he needed practice against Kirbys, but when it came to this ladder match, he won. I don't get it.

lol a lot of Dedede's I've met fear Kirby =/

Maybe you'll get over it...

 

[Gnes]

I seem to catch a lot of kirby's with SH Uairs. This starts killing from 60+%

Bair will kill him a lot sooner than 90%. It kills peach outright from the centre of FD around 60+% with no DI, with DI it's around 80+%. And kirby's a lot lighter.

As for her recovery, there is significantly less lag when she teleports onto the ground, as opposed to in the air. If you edge hog, she'll go for the ground and you may not be able to catch her in time. Her teleport is laggy, but you've still got to be moderately fast regardless to punish.

Kirby isnt that much lighter but regardless i agree with the bair/ fair kill boost in the matchup...idk what kind of kirby gets hit with Sh U-airs since the move's start up is easy to see...

How many seconds is zelda vulnerable after a on-stage teleport???

Asdioh...we should talk about Diddy...ive got major experience :-)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm coming into the discussion late but. Zelda beats kirby on the ground by making herself VERY difficult to approach.

She CAN beat him in the air since his maneverability is so bad and hers is so good, he's really not too hard to lightning kick or uair. and he's one of the easier charcters to spike with her dair IMO.

he's got some damage wracking comboes on her, but I mean. this matchup is hers to lose.

sheik doesn't fare near as well I'm afraid, but doesn't feel especially disadvanatged so long as sheik is willing to switch to zelda to KO. Alone, sheik has a tougher road.

But I don't think this thread disagrees with that. what are stage choices looking like?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Is Kirby really lighter than Peach? I don't know, but I honestly thought he was heavier.

Peach is heavier than Marth if that helps you.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Peach is heavier than Marth if that helps you.

it's all in her thighs <_< (... just like toad)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

it's all in her thighs <_<

You talking about Peach or Marth now?? XDD

 

[MK26]

Update:

Wolf: Everybody says 50-50, but I don't see any reason why it's not 55-45 or higher for Kirby.
Stage Advantages: Lylat Cruise, Rainbow Cruise
Disadvantages: None?

Zelda: 40-60. No doubt.
Advantages: ?
Disadvantage: ?

Sheik: 60-40.
Advantages: ?
Disadvantages: ?

@ Asidoh

lol Asdioh missed it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I've heard kirby does well on Brinstar by default... is this true?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf: Everybody says 50-50, but I don't see any reason why it's not 55-45 or higher for Kirby.

Cuz Wolf wins speed, range, weight and camping?

 

[A1lion835]

I've heard kirby does well on Brinstar by default... is this true?

Yesh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUU_ZWhgO1M

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

is that normal for kirby on the stage?

if so, I'd chose it. Zelda isn't a fan of the stage. it's hard for her to sweetspot her recovery there.

BTW, that's an EXCELENT BGM track for the vid

 

[Asdioh]

lol Asdioh missed it.

List of people who have spelled my name "Asidoh", whether by typo or misreading:
Percon, Anther, Tiersie, TwilightKirby, iRjOn "Ashidoh", BO X7, urdailywater, Stroupes, ron561, sasukebowser, Ginowns, AssaultX, Dr.octogonapus, fromundaman, Midnight702, Kirby Redux, InfernAngelis, ook, Kirbah, Zip, Haloman800, A1Lion835, jiovanni007, Fabian

I most definitely did not.

Cuz Wolf wins speed, range, weight and camping?

I don't know, I think Kirby can camp just as well with Wolf's power, if not better. I don't really care about speed. Weight isn't a big factor when Kirby gimps as well as he does, and fsmash KOs everyone but the very heaviest with ease. I put it as 55-45 Kirby's favor, which obviously isn't a big advantage, but I still think it's there.

is that normal for kirby on the stage?

if so, I'd chose it. Zelda isn't a fan of the stage. it's hard for her to sweetspot her recovery there.

BTW, that's an EXCELENT BGM track for the vid

XD thanks. I made the video longer than I intended because I didn't want to cut the epic song short. So it became half "Kirby combo video" and half "watch Brinstar kick people's ***** without needing my help"

But yeah, I can see it being a good CP against Zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But yeah, I can see it being a good CP against Zelda.

only thing it does bad for her is screw up her recovery from time to time leaving her open to punishment for her landing lag.

it's not a massive consideration, but it certainly is helpful for you. but if you can't put zelda in that situation where it matters, then it'll do nothing extra for you.

tendons normally work for zelda. and the stage layout is nice for her aerials and low damage KOs, but it's not likely as good for us as for you.

 

[Asdioh]

tendons normally work for zelda. and the stage layout is nice for her aerials and low damage KOs, but it's not likely as good for us as for you.

Yeah I just realized, her upsmash/fsmash will be incredible on those ... tendons they're called? That's a better name than "stringy things" I suppose.

Still, Kirby has various things to take advantage of on that stage, some of my favorites:

-low % kos with fsmash, aerial hammer, or wall of pain
-up throw on the top platform at decent %
-dairing people through the breakable part
-dthrowing them through the breakable part (this doesn't happen often, since it sometimes leads to grab release instead)
-acid combos!

 

[A1lion835]

Kirby normally pwns on Brinstar. Especially if your Asdioh.

 

[Asdioh]

Kirby normally pwns on Brinstar. Especially if your Asdioh.

Since I started counterpicking Brinstar, I haven't lost to a Meta Knight there yet >_>

I've only played like 5 but yeah