The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[MK26]

I think Falco, in the old match-up thread there was some disagreement, and he's placing well on tournaments.

Deal.

Character: Falco

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's-
...no wait, it's a bird​

Difficulty rating: 55-45​

 

[Asdioh]

55-45? It's getting more even each time I see it O_O

Is Fox still 70-30? I consider Falco to be easier, lol.

What tew discuss? ...he has laz0rz, and if you steal them you can short hop triple laser (the third one is silent) followed by a sped-up fourth laser.

He's easy to gimp, in many ways. Dair his Firebird recovery...

If he's obvious with his ledgehop->Phantasm onto stage, distance yourself and punish with Fsmash or hammer.

You can be epic like me and edgeguard his Side B with a well-timed and well-placed Stone. Kinda hard to do consistantly >_>

Lasers offstage will probably screw up his recovery.

I don't know what percentages Falco will kill Kirby at, anyone have anything?

Gonzo combo works very well on Falco, since he can't use his Reflector like Wolf/Fox can to get out of it.

Overall I'd have to say this is at least 60-40 in Kirby's favor, unless someone can give me some other reasons.

I always assumed the Falcos I lost to were just better than me >_> or lucky

 

[Collective of Bears]

^Pretty much what he said.

Kirby is one of the most reliable Falco counterpicks for sure. 60-40 in the favor of Kirbz.

 

[T-nuts]

I'll say 55-45 in favor of kirby. And yea, kirby probably has 70-30 over fox. gonzo combo still works on fox. I got a 0-death on a fox once that started with the gonzo combo. and it was a GOOD fox. Oh yeah, short hop fair ***** fox.

I dunno. good falcos arent all about chain grabbing and lasers. Falco also has a good move set.

And falco can still combo kirby at 0%. grab-->dthrow-->grab-->dthrow-->gatling combo. thats like 40%ish. not to mention usmash is a great killing move, if you get hit by a fresh usmash around 90-100% you can expect to die.

Still i think kirby has the upper hand.

 

[Asdioh]

I have more trouble against Fox because his upsmash is stronger than Falco's (right?) and he can combo into it out of dair. I could probably DI out of it or something, I haven't played a good Fox in a loong time, and I've gotten better since then, plus better at DI.

 

[Mith_]

Character: Falco
Difficulty rating: From what I've read 60-40 Kirby or 55-45 Kirby. I've never faced a good Kirby.
Overview: Falco is good at camping, and has mid range on a bit of his moves.He has a lot of tricks in his sleeve and should never be predictable.
Pros+Cons: Falco and Kirby are about the same speed. Killing Falco off the top would be the best idea, his horizontal recovery is pretty ok.
Watch out for: lasers obv. Chaingrab, Falco can spike too.
How to win: I'm pretty sure Kirby is better in the air than Falco, so fight him there.
Spit out or Swallow?: Most def. swallow, SH-TRIPLE-Lasers are overpowered lol. With 5 nice jumps u get a huge wall of lasers.
What NOT to do: Down B lol.
Stages: Counterpick Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar. Ban Jungle Japes. Final Destination shouldn't be an issue since you can absorb his lasers.
Synopsis: Absorb Falco, spam aerial lasers and fight him in the air.

Hope I helped you try and beat one of my mains

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I have more trouble against Fox because his upsmash is stronger than Falco's (right?) and he can combo into it out of dair. I could probably DI out of it or something, I haven't played a good Fox in a loong time, and I've gotten better since then, plus better at DI.

Yes, Fox Up-smash is way better than Falco's, Fox Up-smash has almost no lag and is more strong than Falco's , Falco Up-Smash has bad ending lag....
And one tip.. never get dair'ed by Fox... NEVER He'll just Dair Up-Smash or Dair- Dsmash resulting in loosing a stock

 

[Tommy_G]

Falco gets owned pretty badly by Kirby. It's NOT an even match up. They say it's so even because of Kirby's inability to approach and deal with camping...well guess what, smart Kirbies will get that first grab combo into B and take your lasers. Falco's advantage is now gone. Kirby's major priority in a few moves makes it easy to gimp falco if he reads him correctly. 60-40 Kirby's Favor only because I never believe anything is harder than that.

"If Falco manages to play a perfect defensive game, Kirby will hopelessly try to get through somehow. If Kirby manages to knock Falco of the edge once, he almost has a stock for sure. It just comes down to who's the better player."

What would you rather want to do? Camp and play a perfect defensive game or knock Falco off the edge once?

One of Falco's hardest match ups imo.

(What I posted in the Falco boards.)

 

[Flamingo777]

I think Sheik vs Kirby is pretty neutral to be honest. 55-45 in Sheiks favor IMO.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Yup... Kirby pretty much owns Falco, Kirby being so small its hard for Falco to SHL or DSHL very well and if Kirby crouches its practicaly imposible <_______< Kirby ***** Falco in the air

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

LOL i guess no one has played Sethlon lately

i use kirby and he uses falco, play him and you will change your mind about the "kirby>falco" theory

 

[momochuu]

LOL i guess no one has played Sethlon lately

i use kirby and he uses falco, play him and you will change your mind about the "kirby>falco" theory

That's just Sethlon though. One of the best Falcos. One person doesn't change an entire matchup. =^_^=

 

[Gnes]

LOL i guess no one has played Sethlon lately

i use kirby and he uses falco, play him and you will change your mind about the "kirby>falco" theory

Uh...the tourney when i first exclusively used kirby as my main i played sethlon i knocked him to losers...his falco is great but dont put him on some amazingly high pedestal...Even he believes the matchup is in kirby's favor(last time i talked to him)...

Playin falcos all about waiting for the falcos mistakes such as the regular combos *sh-laser>gatling combo* etc...all of falcos finisher can be punished easily by kirby if u know how...Falcos not a great killer and thats what pulls him under in this matchup...Ill explain more if u want

I give 55-45 Kirby slight advantage...Kirby attempts to gimp(and most likely does) falco attempts to kill(and most likely doesnt)

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Uh...the tourney when i first exclusively used kirby as my main i played sethlon i knocked him to losers...his falco is great but dont put him on some amazingly high pedestal...Even he believes the matchup is in kirby's favor(last time i talked to him)...

Playin falcos all about waiting for the falcos mistakes such as the regular combos *sh-laser>gatling combo* etc...all of falcos finisher can be punished easily by kirby if u know how...Falcos not a great killer and thats what pulls him under in this matchup...Ill explain more if u want

I give 55-45 Kirby slight advantage...Kirby attempts to gimp(and most likely does) falco attempts to kill(and most likely doesnt)

First of all you are better than me and you have more practice against Sethlon. When i played him(like 2 days ago) i did some grab combo and he goes "Gness combo" im like wut. Maybe i over reacted but still, even after the match he told me that he does not believe that kirby has a good match up against falco, maybe even but not good like people think, which implies to me he has been practicing against kirby

Im sure if i play him again ill do better, but kirby does not **** falcos

 

[~Gonzo~]

umm... yes he does

Basically Falco starts the match with 60% damage. due to Utilt to Bair combos + grabs.

Kirby's Bair has equal priority to Falcos forward B and Kirby can rock / Dair Falco out of his Forward B. Not to mention Kirby's copy of laser is the best edgeguarding technique in the game and if u do decide to reflect the laser while attempting to recover u can say Peace out to ever making it back on the stage cuz Dair ***** his Bup

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

umm... yes he does

Basically Falco starts the match with 60% damage. due to Utilt to Bair combos + grabs.

Kirby's Bair has equal priority to Falcos forward B and Kirby can rock / Dair Falco out of his Forward B. Not to mention Kirby's copy of laser is the best edgeguarding technique in the game and if u do decide to reflect the laser while attempting to recover u can say Peace out to ever making it back on the stage cuz Dair ***** his Bup

Same can be said about kirby, depends on who get's grabbed 1st

fthrow, uair, reverse utilt, bair is what u are talking about right? Matter of fact u can get more than 60% i think but im not sure if it will work on falco and also depends on DI

dthrow, utilt, dthrow, utilt, fast fall nair, dtilt, then any grab you want

kirby has a advantage but not much to say he ***** falco, now fox on the other hand is a whole nother story.

EDIT: he ***** noob falcos

 

[Asdioh]

Suspect your signature freaks me out so much. I counter your sig with this:

Anyway, try using uptilt on a Falco at 0%. And then do it again, and again, and again, and see how long it takes for him to get out of it. And like Gonzo said, short hop->bair when it looks like he's close to getting out of uptilt. :]

Gonzo's convincing...sometimes I can't tell if he's theorycrafting or talking from experience, but it's always convincing XD

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Suspect your signature freaks me out so much. I counter your sig with this:

Anyway, try using uptilt on a Falco at 0%. And then do it again, and again, and again, and see how long it takes for him to get out of it. And like Gonzo said, short hop->bair when it looks like he's close to getting out of uptilt. :]

Gonzo's convincing...sometimes I can't tell if he's theorycrafting or talking from experience, but it's always convincing XD

ROFL your sig won the internet

 

[Asdioh]

I made a thread for playstyle critiquing and specific matchup problems. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205797

If you don't think it should include the matchup part, let me know.

 

[TechnoMonster]

I pulled Kirby on SK92 yesterday. I have to say that Falco can press and grabcombo and grabpressure Kirby extensively, and its best not to airdodge in this matchup. If Falco starts the match at 60, then Kirby starts it at 40 and still has to deal with lasers until he can pull a copy, which won't last forever.

 

[Gnes]

lasers can be powershielded without too much difficulty...copying falco isnt a must to win...kirby can grab pressure falco as well and quite easily at that...after 40% falcos grab is pretty useless

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... is falco able to grab combo Kirby, or is he too light? (The last Falco I played was so much better than me that he didn't need grabs... That and he really didn't play like most falcos seem to, which threw me off.)

Falco does seem to have some difficulty KOing Kirby though. His best option is DA>Usmash, but if you see it coming, it's not so hard to stop. *cough* Bair *cough*

 

[Asdioh]

I thought Kirby was too light, but I haven't been able to DI out of Falco throws until he's done it at least twice. Then there are those crazy Falcos that do a pivot grab and it's scary o_o

 

[Hylian]

Enjoy your sticky.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Anyway, try using uptilt on a Falco at 0%. And then do it again, and again, and again, and see how long it takes for him to get out of it. And like Gonzo said, short hop->bair when it looks like he's close to getting out of uptilt. :]

Gonzo's convincing...sometimes I can't tell if he's theorycrafting or talking from experience, but it's always convincing XD

Lol thnx Asdioh

Seriously though i've done this b4. The smarter your opponent the harder it becomes to use these techniques but that can be true of anyone u fight, if i was playing Kirby and Falco at the same time against each other with equall ability for both Kirby would win.

 

[Glick]

Yeah Kirby naturally destroys spacies. TL is the only match up I really have trouble with.

 

[Retroend]

falco is one of my absolute favorite characters to beat the crap out of. i rememeber how much i hated him and fox in melee. well now we don't have to fear so much. falco has a disadvantge if he gets grabbed in general. most combos work on him. however he can easily Di out of the gonzo combo if he gets hit with the second part. try my retro combo, it usually works on him most of the time. falco is still a force to be be reconged with. his smashes are quicker in general and have longer range. his spike can be dangerous so don't fight him off stage so recklessly. his lazers can be dodged just by crouching, so either way, he'll have to come after you to get some hits (unless he's a complete spammer). use his lazer against him as well. oh and the kirbycide works well on him if the player is stupid enough to fall for it.

so basically- 55-45 in kirby's favor. fox is even easier, lol.

 

[Gnes]

falco is one of my absolute favorite characters to beat the crap out of. i rememeber how much i hated him and fox in melee. well now we don't have to fear so much. falco has a disadvantge if he gets grabbed in general. most combos work on him. however he can easily Di out of the gonzo combo if he gets hit with the second part. try my retro combo it usually works on him most of the time. falco is still a force to be be reconged with. his smashes are quicker in general and have longer range. his spike can be dangerous so don't fight him off stage so recklessly. his lazers can be dodged just by crouching, so either way, he'll have to come after you to get some hits (unless he's a complete spammer). use his lazer against him as well. oh and the kirbycide works well on him if the player is stupid enough to fall for it.

so basically- 55-45 in kirby's favor. fox is even easier, lol.

Easily DI...what u talkin bout...if he has a jump he can escape but if he di's away Di with him...that simple unless ur tryin the combo startin like at 30% or somethin

and whats the retro combo...Is it extremely retro, ive probably done it before

Lastly i greatly disagree with not fighting off stage...falcos spike has to be sweetspotted kirbys spike does not...Also kirby simply ***** off stage

 

[fromundaman]

I can't keep up with all these combo names... Stop making me check the combo thread over and over! ARG!

*Ahem*

As I mentioned in said combo thread, I don't actually think the retro combo is unescapable, though I can't really test it right now because teaching my roommate to DI is an exercise in futility.
Anyway, yeah, most people can get out of the second part of the Gonzo combo, which is why you have the alternate version, the one that continues with a reverse Utilt to Bair, and the Vermi combo, that seems unescapable for falco, though again, I wasn't able to try DI due to my roommate's general suckiness.

Also, Kirby ***** offstage, as the previous poster stated. I go offstage even against ROB. Falco is no problem, and actually very easy to gimp if you fight him off stage.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Ninjalink combo- *worked on a fox player once* dthrow, utilt, dthrow, utilt, fastfall nair, dtilt, then any grab

 

[Retroend]

Easily DI...what u talkin bout...if he has a jump he can escape but if he di's away Di with him...that simple unless ur tryin the combo startin like at 30% or somethin

and whats the retro combo...Is it extremely retro, ive probably done it before

Lastly i greatly disagree with not fighting off stage...falcos spike has to be sweetspotted kirbys spike does not...Also kirby simply ***** off stage

lol at my combo being retro. now lets not get hostile. you're right if he has a jump he can escape, but thats not always the case. i have a friend that mains falco and sometimes he doesn't jump, he tilts (or DI's) to the left or right (depending on on which way your doing the combo) and can avoid the 2nd uair. and i start that combo at 0% always. i'm not saying that the gonzo combo is bad, but sometimes falco players get lucky.

and yes kirby does well off the stage, but you got to consider that falco has 2 alternatives: dair and his side b special. my friend usually likes to do his side b. i can't tell you how many times he sweetspotted me and spiked me with that special. also his dair is more likely to spike even though it has to be sweetspotted still. either he's good at sweetspotting, or i'm doing something wrong. but yes kirby can still be at a advantage fighting off the stage. hope that clarrifies some things.

I can't keep up with all these combo names... Stop making me check the combo thread over and over! ARG!

*Ahem*

As I mentioned in said combo thread, I don't actually think the retro combo is unescapable, though I can't really test it right now because teaching my roommate to DI is an exercise in futility.
Anyway, yeah, most people can get out of the second part of the Gonzo combo, which is why you have the alternate version, the one that continues with a reverse Utilt to Bair, and the Vermi combo, that seems unescapable for falco, though again, I wasn't able to try DI due to my roommate's general suckiness.

Also, Kirby ***** offstage, as the previous poster stated. I go offstage even against ROB. Falco is no problem, and actually very easy to gimp if you fight him off stage.

sorry didn't mean to make you check back and forth. i'm not able to show it since i don't have anything to put it on youtube. the retro combo is escapable if falco players know whats coming. after the u-tilt, they can easily jump away. they can even escape the aerial hammer by jumping or dodging with right timing. again this isn't a perfect combo, but it can catch people off guard, especially the 1st time you use it against them. i would recommend not to spam this combo everytime your opppnent's at 0% or 50% for the aerial hammer because they'll know whats coming (unless they have no clue on what to do.)

 

[fromundaman]

Ah, I see, so it's more of a surprise combo. Still... it sounds like my Dthrow>Utilt>Dair>Dthrow thing. It can work, and when it does it's awesome, but odds are it won't. Then again, I said more or less the same thing for Vermiis' combo, and I was wrong, so what do I know?

Kirby can easily recover from Falco's side B spike though provided he's not at insanely high percents or has used all his jumps. On top of that, it puts Falco in freefall, so he has to be predictable when using it and either be able to land on the stage or the edge. This makes him meet Kirby's Bair at supersonic speeds with his face.

As for his Dair, it only sweetspots at the bottom at the very beginning, so I would assume your friend is just good at sweetspotting it (to be fair, most good Falcos are. I am not a good Falco...(Yes, it's always about me!))

Thing is, you can recover from both spikes, and odds are he won't land them anyway, unless he CGed>spiked you, since you have a lot more aerial mobility than he does.

sorry didn't mean to make you check back and forth.

No worries, I was just messing with you.



Also, we should probably get some Falco mains in here.

 

[Retroend]

Ah, I see, so it's more of a surprise combo. Still... it sounds like my Dthrow>Utilt>Dair>Dthrow thing. It can work, and when it does it's awesome, but odds are it won't. Then again, I said more or less the same thing for Vermiis' combo, and I was wrong, so what do I know?

Kirby can easily recover from Falco's side B spike though provided he's not at insanely high percents or has used all his jumps. On top of that, it puts Falco in freefall, so he has to be predictable when using it and either be able to land on the stage or the edge. This makes him meet Kirby's Bair at supersonic speeds with his face.

As for his Dair, it only sweetspots at the bottom at the very beginning, so I would assume your friend is just good at sweetspotting it (to be fair, most good Falcos are. I am not a good Falco...(Yes, it's always about me!))

Thing is, you can recover from both spikes, and odds are he won't land them anyway, unless he CGed>spiked you, since you have a lot more aerial mobility than he does.



No worries, I was just messing with you.



Also, we should probably get some Falco mains in here.

yea, but my friends still fall for it sometimes. and then i spike them. and man is it rewarding. good combos though on this thread though. guess i'll have to learn them all O_o lol.

 

[Gnes]

Kirby's bair goes through falcos illusion so i dont see how he keeps spiking u unless ur timing the bair too late...i love hammering through falcos illusion...its so satisfying ...when i play sethlon hes never tried to spike me if were having a edge battle...hed always bair...perhaps this was out of safety considering if he dairs over the edge and misses and i punish thats a stock...idk

 

[jiovanni007]

as far as illusion goes it isn't difficult to deal with, dair and bair work fine. Falco's spike isn't nearly as intimidating as it may seem. Really the only safe opportunity he has for it against Kirby is if Kirby uses his ^B from below the stage since it only sweetspots after the arch. Naturally any good Kirby player should know not to do that against a spiker anyway. I still wanna push for a 60-40 though. Reason being is that outside of his usmash, Falco has difficulty killing Kirby in a timely manner whereas Kirby doesn't have the same sentiment. If Falco is campy then SHAD -> crouch to approach, it may take longer but it still works. If Falco wants to fight, keep him in the air and you pretty much win. Not a match to sleep on but I still think it should be 60-40

Also, I know its not one of the priority discussions, but we need some more discussion about Lucario IMO. No flames plz but Lucario should definitely be about 35-65 IMO.

 

[Asdioh]

35-65 in favor of Lucario? O_O there's no way

Sure, he has great priority (in fact his priority is sometimes ridiculous) but as long as you play carefully and don't rolldodge into fsmashes (like I tend to do) you'll be fine. Lucario has more trouble killing than you do, and you can gimp him fairly easily.

Unless you meant 65-35 in favor of Kirby...it's definitely not that high either.

I'll probably be playing Blood_hawk Saturday (probably the best Lucario in the midwest, if you haven't heard of him) so I guess I'll find out for myself >_>

 

[Retroend]

as far as illusion goes it isn't difficult to deal with, dair and bair work fine. Falco's spike isn't nearly as intimidating as it may seem. Really the only safe opportunity he has for it against Kirby is if Kirby uses his ^B from below the stage since it only sweetspots after the arch. Naturally any good Kirby player should know not to do that against a spiker anyway. I still wanna push for a 60-40 though. Reason being is that outside of his usmash, Falco has difficulty killing Kirby in a timely manner whereas Kirby doesn't have the same sentiment. If Falco is campy then SHAD -> crouch to approach, it may take longer but it still works. If Falco wants to fight, keep him in the air and you pretty much win. Not a match to sleep on but I still think it should be 60-40

Also, I know its not one of the priority discussions, but we need some more discussion about Lucario IMO. No flames plz but Lucario should definitely be about 35-65 IMO.

its not that i set myself up for it, its just my friend gets lucky sometimes. when he's off stage, i try to go after him with bair and such. i just happen to get spiked by his side b. maybe its my bad luck, but i always try to play smart. falco isn't much of a threat, but he can get lucky sometimes- aka my friend, lol.

 

[fromundaman]

Bair outprioritizes Falco's side B. It has nothing to do with luck. If your Bair is out and he phantasms into it, well, he'll go flying. If you're getting spiked, you're not timing your Bair right.
As for the hammer, yeah, it's awesome to do, but harder and much riskier.

yea, but my friends still fall for it sometimes. and then i spike them. and man is it rewarding. good combos though on this thread though. guess i'll have to learn them all O_o lol.

You'd do better looking in the thread with a mispelled title going by "Kirby Combo Compilation and New comco discoveries thread" for that.



As for Lucario, I haven't really played any great Lucarios, and Lucario is one of my least favorite characters to play as, so it's hard to say.
Lucario has a certain advantage in that he can seriously mess up Kirby's air game. Fsmash has a retardedly huge range that can mess with SHed aerials, his Usmash has a better range than your Dair or FFed aerials, and his Dair make attacks from below almost impossible, which is especially bad when you consider how useful our Utilt and Uair are for comboing.

However, as you guys mentioned, he doesn't kill as easily as Kirby unless he has a lot of damage on him, he's much slower and his moves are very punishable. On top of that, he gets destroyed offstage because of how bad his recovery is, forcing him to focus more on getting back than stopping your attacks. Hell, even if he were to, your aerials **** his other than that incredible Dair.

His aura sphere makes a great power, but he gets a free Dair on you if he knows about it after you swallow (Yet you must know not to waste! *Starts the Monty Python "Every Sperm is Sacred" song* Never spit unless you wish to lose your blue balls. Well, or you're stage gimping him. Shoot him under the stage and he's pretty much screwed.).

All in all though, I'd say a slight advantage for Kirby, if only because all of the moves Lucario has that outrange us are slow enough to punish if they miss. Sure, Utilt and other such moves are fast, but they won't be getting through our Bair/tilts/smashes.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

hmmm i would actually argue that lucario has a slight advantadge, 55-45. if you think his fsmash is punishable it has major iasa frames on it. the only thing that ould hurt is gimping, but we can aim our recovery. i dont mind playing you guys and testing it out though

 

[fromundaman]

Oh, I didn't realize Fsmash had IASA.
Anything else Lucario might have that has the edge on us? (I really don't know much about him/it other than he has a DBZ character's voice and moves/taunt >.< .)