The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[Jtails]

hehe yea diddy mains know it =]

I would like to question kirby vs yoshi.

Character: Yoshi
Difficulty rating: 60-40 advantage of kirby
Overview: I agree with the original yoshi discussion.
Pros+Cons: take advantage of the airgame that kirby has.
Watch out for: Dair to rack damage, as kirby is usually in the air. Fair be careful of spikes
How to win: If kirby swallows yoshi off of BF and spits him under it there is no way yoshi can possibly make it back. meaning instant 0-death. or major advantage at least.
Spit out or Swallow?: spit under BF, not sure if it works on other stages though.
What NOT to do: get Usmashed, Fsmashed, Uaired
Stages: pick BF. not sure what to avoid
Synopsis: Pretty much looking at the instant kill possibility kirby has on yoshi at BF. even if he has a cool head ledgehog him


oops i just read the please strictly, so ill save this for later.
as far as diddy goes I think the pop gun would be a good addition to an arsenal. though i havent tested the kirby diddy match up so I wouldnt have much input for this.

 

[Snowstalker]

You said you agreed with the Yoshi discussion, but that was 5:5, not 6:4.

 

[Jtails]

i agree with it but i think cause of the spitting under bf and maybe some other stages that puts yoshi to an even more disadvantage maybe. its just speculation, and my opinion. so if you guys agree then by all means =]

 

[MK26]

Diddy will be up later in the week.

Character: Pika-pika!

Noo! Don't land there! *footstool*

Matchup Rating: 50-50

Go!

 

[Asdioh]

How to win: If kirby swallows yoshi off of BF and spits him under it there is no way yoshi can possibly make it back. meaning instant 0-death. or major advantage at least.

I'd feel so guilty...

I mean, I do Kirbycides/Starshot gimps quite frequently (if the opponent phails and falls for it) but...it's YOSHI! I don't feel bad if it's Snake or something...but Yoshi... D:

Diddy will be up later in the week.

Character: Pika-pika!

Noo! Don't land there! *footstool*

Matchup Rating: 50-50

Go!

Cute picture XD

Anther's Pikachu beat me EVERY time I played him, therefore Pikachu has an obvious advantage.

No just kidding, but seriously, Pikachu is not to be underestimated. High/top tier material for sure.

Smash DI out of Dsmash...watch out for quick attack -> thunder...

Starshot or Copy? DEFINITELY Copy. So good to have something to spam back, if he's spamming >_> and Kirby's 5 jumps are better for it.

...What do I say about it? A lot of your moves outprioritize a lot of his, but vice versa is probably also true. Anther Quick Attack edgehogged me when I was ledge camping Final Cutter...DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN TO YOU O_O

His recovery is amazing. Pikachu is gimpable, but it's not easy at all. Spamming Thundershock offstage would probably be your best bet.

...watch out for Nair stage spikes...

His upsmash is godly powerful, Dsmash will send you up into a potential Thunder for an easy KO if you don't DI out/airdodge in time...fsmash is really good but predictable. Some of his electric hitboxes have deceptive range. I've seen his fsmash hit me when I was above the lightning, and the same for Dsmash and Fair.

Watch out for ones that Quick Attack all over the stage...spamming Bair is the best way to avoid this that I know of...

50:50 seems good to me.

 

[Jtails]

I agree with ^_^

lol feel no guilt! kirby is a warrior!!
yoshi will live on through him

 

[Mmac]

You really think that would work as a viable option against Yoshi? It sounds good in theory, but there's several flaws here.

1. The Swallow itself. Yoshi can actually outrange Swallow with his Dash Grab, therefore He can easily punish it, resulting in Swallow use less viable. Also Swallow off the edge or as an edgeguard is very easy to avoid for Yoshi due to his DJAD.

2. Even if you do swallow him, he, just like every other character, can break out quickly especially at that percent. Plus where are the odds you are going to be directly on the ledge anyways?

3. So lets say you do Swallow him, Jump off, and Starshoot him underneath the stage, it still doesn't kill him. As long as he remains calm and dodge his resulting edgeguard, Yoshi should live pretty easily.

Fission Mailed

 

[Asdioh]

It's true, the simple fact is that Kirbycide only works on bad/ignorant opponents, or if they make a huuuge mistake.

And yeah, struggling out >_>
Sometimes I've been killed while attempting Kirbycide/Inhale gimp, and my opponent lives D:

Whenever I get a Kirbycide/Inhale gimp on the Allisbrawl ladder (even when I'm obviously going to win even without it) people always complain about it afterwards, and they refuse to understand that it's their fault for setting themselves up for it >_>

For example, the Meta Knight that chased me offstage when I had like 100% and he had 40-60ish percent, and I was a stock ahead. I Kirbycided, and later he said "cheap kill" sigh

 

[Jtails]

i suppose an opponent would have to be ignorant of these things, but sometimes in the heat of battle one forgets about these things.

and yea the struggling can be a problem, but yoshi cannot make it back if kirby edgehogs properly. due to the angle.

 

[T-nuts]

Fission Mailed

Not really...

your first and second points aren't even valid. the good kirbicides come when kirby is recovering toward the stage. therefore kirby is already off the side...he doesnt need to waddle over to the edge and jump off. that would give you too much time to escape.

and who cares if your grab outranges it? you think we never get marths or ikes in kirbicides? and they have much more range than yoshi. kirbicide is a surprise tactic and a surprise tactic only.

your 3rd point though, yes, maybe it is possible to survive if you dodge correctly.

 

[Lord Viper]

Kirby vs. Pikachu

Pros

-Kirby has better air game
-Kirby has better killing moves
-Kirby has more killing moves
-Kirby has multi jumps and better recovery than Pikachu
-Kirby has better grab combos
-Kirby can elemnate Pikachu edgegard game if he copys his powers, or D-Tilt him when he get's on the edge
-Kirbycide

Cons

-Pikachu is faster
-Pikachu has a bigger hit box with his Smash attacks than Kirby
-Pikachu can strike Kirby in the air while on the ground using Down-B
-Pikachu has a better B recovery, which makes it hard to KO him by spiking him or edgegarding him
-Pikachu has more stun moves than Kirby
-Pikachu on a flat stage is a nightmare for Kirby

55:45 in Kirby's hands I'll say. Kirby has better B moves than Pikachu, also he can KO him at a low percent with a good amout of kill moves, (F-Smash, Side-B air, B-Air, etc). But Pikachu is very very tricky if you face a good Pikachu player that don't kill themsevles by doing one Quick Attack, lol.

 

[fromundaman]

Anyway... back on topic, Pikachu:

He will hurt you. He will spam the crap out of that **** thundershock, so take it and spam back! You do it better, and it will force him to approach.

Watch out for Thunder edgeguarding. It's VERY effective, so make sure you time your ADs right. That or if you have extra jumps left, you can just wait for it to end.

QAC can also make your life a nightmare, especially at higher percentages, where a QAC>Nair will kill you.

On the plus side, your aerials are better than his (and that's saying something!), and Bair outranges all his aerials. Beware though, because his smashes will hit you even if you're in the air.

Your kill moves are also better/easier to hit with.

Despite his amazing recovery, Kirby's is still better, so you can utilize that too.

All in all, it seems pretty even, with maybe a slight advantage to Kirby, though I absolutely HATE fighting Pikachu nonetheless...

 

[5ive]

Here is the Pikachu Guide.

This has most of Pikachu's Metagame.

Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md848biPmWA&fmt=18

Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQ3cq1BDCs&fmt=18

 

[momochuu]

I main both. Pikachu has the advantage 55-45. Thunderjolt is too **** annoying and Kirby has a really hard time approaching.

 

[neji32]

i say 50/50 kirby can kill pika pretty easily but pika has alot of stuff on him too, might be 55/45 pika though. Pikachu can still combo kirby

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Ok first off most pikas wont be dying to over 100, without too much of a problem. the thing is we are quicker, and can avoid alot of your attacks. and gimping pika. no. even mk and rob struggle with gimping pika. we have too much aerial mobility plus we can qa whereever you want to, and avoid dairs etc. even if you DO hit with dair i have many times survived from the bottom, cause a perfect qa can go from right below the fd ledge at the bottom and just grab it. i call this 55-45 pika, neutral at the worst. if anyone wants tomorrow i can play you guys online, and help with the matchup.

 

[M15t3R E]

Kirby and Pikachu......

There's not much a Kirby can do about the t-jolts other than just floating over them. When in medium range, t-jolts can be used for approaching. Against an incoming fair, Kirby can utilt if he has a great reaction time. If hit by the fair, the kirby is in for some major damage. Kirby can be juggled some by utilts and uairs and be sent flying away by a nair.
Kirby can grab combo Pikachu with his f-throw to uair, but the combo will end right there if the Pikachu uses proper DI.

On the ground, Pikachu has range with the dtilt- range that Kirby cannot match. Pikachu is quicker and can evade a lot of ground attacks a Kirby on the offensive may throw out. Both characters' d-smashes can be used as their "get the F away from me" move. However, Pikachu's is quicker than Kirby's.
Pikachu can jump back and start abusing t-jolts whenever he wants while there's not much Kirby can do about it.

In the air is overall Kirby territory. The only position Pikachu is relatively safe in here, is directly under Kirby due to the range of Pikachu's uair. If Kirby tries to meet Pikachu in the air as he's dropping down, if the Pikachu is knowledgeable enough, he'll know not to get to close.

Kirbys often love to recover high. Against Pikachu, you might want to give that a second thought. Pikachu's thunder has ridiculous vertical hitbox distance + insane priority. It can F you up. Beware.

I'd have to call this 55/45 Pikachu, but it's reasonable to say 50/50 when both characters play to their potential.

 

[Asdioh]

Here is the Pikachu Guide.

This has most of Pikachu's Metagame.

Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md848biPmWA&fmt=18

Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQ3cq1BDCs&fmt=18

That is a good video.

I think I'm going to pick Pikachu up as a secondary..I don't know why I haven't already, he was the first character I ever played in N64, and I mained him for a while before I switched to Kirby forever o_O

I was young, forgive my ignorance fellow Kirbys



I'll try to add a little bit more:
(talking about offline here)

Pretty much any move Kirby has can cancel out a Thunderjolt. If you're approach from the air, Fair does well, and so does Bair. I'm not sure if the Thunderjolt cancels the Fair though...

If he's spamming Thunderjolts from a distance, and you don't feel like approaching at the moment, just stand still and jab the Thunderjolts. You can just hold A down and you punch them and cancel them out >_>
It also cancels out your jab, so be careful.

You need good timing for this, but depending on the spacing of his Thunderjolt spam, your Final Cutter can cancel a Thunderjolt with the blade on the way up, and can cancel another one on the way down/right when it lands. It then sends a shockwave out. Worst case scenario (if you manage to successfully cancel out the jolts, this isn't terribly hard to do offline) is that he spams a third jolt, and you and he both get hit.

Actually, worst-case scenario would probably be that he approaches while you're doing Up B. So uh, be careful, this isn't exactly a reliable thing to do.

If he's being even semi-predictable with his Thunder, you can easily time a Stone so that you fall on him right after the lightning comes down.

Both characters' d-smashes can be used as their "get the F away from me" move. However, Pikachu's is quicker than Kirby's.

Kirby's dsmash makes me kinda sad, because the hitbox doesn't last very long at all. D:

Again, smash DI up and out of Pikachu's Dsmash. You should never be in the whole thing.

What are good stages to counterpick against Pikachu? I'm pretty sure Pokemon Stadium 1 is one of his best stages...maybe? I think Anther picked it against me, but now that I think about it, he was using Sonic >_> or maybe he was Sonic first game and went Pikachu next game? Or no o_O *can't remember*

I choose...BRINSTAR. Oh, a Pikachu CP'd Corneria against me today, because Thunder kills ridiculously early there, so be careful. His play was too obvious though, and it was an easy win.

 

[Vulcan]

Id agree with the 55-45 Pika's favor conclusion. Pika's priority is a killer, and his ability to not be gimped or kirbycided easily due to his amazing QA makes the match alittle harder. His thunder also has the ability to gimp at low percentages if you are in the air or happen to be hit by it while you are next to him.

 

[ungulateman]

Don't forget Kirby's Stone. It may look unimpressive, but it's pretty effective as a finisher.

Final Cutter >>>>>>>>>Fair.

Final Cutter >>>>>>>>> DSmash.

Hammer >>>>>>>>>>> Throws and Jab.

I hope I made my point. 50/50 IMO.

 

[neji32]

kirbycide would work if we forgot that we couldnt dj.

 

[momochuu]

And...that you can kinda struggle out of it? Only nubs fall for Kirbycide. 3:

 

[fromundaman]

What are good stages to counterpick against Pikachu? I'm pretty sure Pokemon Stadium 1 is one of his best stages...maybe? I think Anther picked it against me, but now that I think about it, he was using Sonic >_> or maybe he was Sonic first game and went Pikachu next game? Or no o_O *can't remember*

I choose...BRINSTAR. Oh, a Pikachu CP'd Corneria against me today, because Thunder kills ridiculously early there, so be careful. His play was too obvious though, and it was an easy win.

Yeah, PS1 is pretty good for Pikachu... Other than that though I don't know.

You really like Brinstar, don't you?



Yeah, Kirbycides aren't really going to work against Pikachu.

About the jolts: If Kirby gets your power, he can spam them back at you just as well, if not better.

Thunder: It can be pretty hard to time a stone to hit, since you really don't have that big of an opening after his thunder hits him since I'm pretty sure he can shield it before you hit (though it will hurt his shield pretty badly), and no opening if he made it hit in front of him. Personally, I find it easier to just AD through it.

Couldn't Kirby just Fsmash through the Dtilt? Plus odds are Kirby won't be on the ground all that much. SH Bair is our best friend.
Also, the Utilt is able to clash with a lot of moves, even facing away from them (like Peach's Fsmash for some reason). Does it clash with any of Pikachu's? Does it beat out his aerials? These are things you might want to consider (and that I can't answer.).

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Which is why i am openfor wifi lol for another hour,if there are any takers,

 

[neji32]

im open for wifi at almost anytime =D

i would say fd ps1 are really good levels for pika,
sv(well no one else thinks so) and lylat are bad levels for him

 

[fromundaman]

Unfortunately, I don't have an internet connection at home.

Why would you say Lylat is bad for Pikachu though? He seemed (to me) to be one of the few characters who isn't screwed by that level.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lylat is not bad for him if he can qa the necessary angles, and sv is one of his best levels. neji just doesnt do well there. if you are looking for a bad level his only bad level is luigis mansion. open for the rest of the night for battles.........asdioh?

 

[fromundaman]

Isn't Luigi's Mansion banned in most tournies though?

Basically, we should ban Pikachu's best levels and CP whatever we might hope isn't *too* good for Pikachu then... Or Brinstar

Actually, how is Pikachu on Green Greens and Brinstar? I would have thought the blocks on Green Greens and the shifting terrain on Brinstar (along with the lava of course) would interfere with QAC.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

brinstar is qac heaven, and we can qac from underneath the stage. i personally like it. green greens are also ok, with some good qacing, and thee potential for early kills. idk how you guys do there though,

 

[momochuu]

brinstar is qac heaven, and we can qac from underneath the stage. i personally like it. green greens are also ok, with some good qacing, and thee potential for early kills. idk how you guys do there though,

Kirby's FSmash kills at an absurdly low percent there. (Green Greens)

 

[Glick]

If they are spamming thunder (usually on teams). Try using the stone of justice.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Yeah... It kills at like 60% on heavy characters very strong

 

[sMexy-Blu]

If they are spamming thunder (usually on teams). Try using the stone of justice.

Not really just try dodging and finding a way to punish Pika because your really open once you gotta get out of the stone that leaves you open for a grab/Smash/Thunder from Pikachu

 

[fromundaman]

Kirby also has a ridiculously easy time jab locking you against the blocks on Green Greens too, and, in my experience, you can't get out until a bomb block drops on your head and spikes you (though it might just have been my opponents not DIing... haven't really had the chance to try it on good opponents... >.< ).

Brinistar is also an excellent stage for Kirby (See the stage discussion thread for reasons why, I'm too lazy to type it out, and, so far, it's really the only one in the main post, because I've been too lazy to update...).

But, supposing we split the stage in 2, or destroy a tentacle or two, wouldn't that hinder your QAC abilities? (I ask because I seriously have no idea. I can't QAC to save my life...)

 

[Stealth Raptor]

it wont affect us at all. qacing through the tentacles screws up the timing a little (but you can adjust easily) and splitting the stage just makes a hole. wont really stop us.

 

[momochuu]

If they are spamming thunder (usually on teams). Try using the stone of justice.

Thunder will hit you before stone even gives invincibility.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Thunder will hit you before stone even gives invincibility.

Unfortunately, it's true. Down B is my worst enemy.

 

[fromundaman]

Thunder will hit you before stone even gives invincibility.

Agreed. Unless the Pikachu user kindly decides to wait for us to transform, there is no way we'll get invincibility before you fry our poor puffball.

 

[MK26]

Bump for Diddy update.

Pika coming tomorrow...who should we do next?

 

[~Shao~]

I think Falco, in the old match-up thread there was some disagreement, and he's placing well on tournaments.