The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[Mmac]

I say Starshot it. Orion is looking at it at like it has the same benefits as Yoshi. It doesn't. Not only that he gets none of the benefits like DJC or stuff like that, it only has Half the Range, and it's Hitbox is very thin compared to Yoshi's! It's nothing like Yoshi's at all and it's practically worthless.

The Hat is super awesome though

 

[~Shao~]

I don't have enough experience with Yoshi, but I'm pretty sure he can escape grab combos by using the juggernaut frames on his second jump, correct me if I'm wrong. And his recovery is harder to gimp then melee because he can save his second jump by using his up-b, not only gaining horizontal and vertical distance, but having a projectile to make edgeguarders back off.

 

[Mmac]

I don't have enough experience with Yoshi, but I'm pretty sure he can escape grab combos by using the juggernaut frames on his second jump, correct me if I'm wrong. And his recovery is harder to gimp then melee because he can save his second jump by using his up-b, not only gaining horizontal and vertical distance, but having a projectile to make edgeguarders back off.

I think so, I got out of Kirby's Combo's pretty easily.

As for his recovery, you forgot his Airdodge. He can do it now without stalling the momentum.

One last thing is that Yoshi's Pivot Grab is still very useful in this matchup. He doesn't have any Release Combos on Kirby, but it's still great at stopping his approaches

 

[~Shao~]

Yeah, forgot that. But you have to be careful, because if he baits an airdodge, aerial hammer can easily kill. I wonder if baiting an airdodge after Yoshi's second jump, swallowing and waiting for him to break out would be reliable, considering he doesn't get his second jump back if he breaks out.

 

[Poltergust]

One thing that Kirby has over Yoshi is his b-air. Not even Yoshi's up-smash can go through that attack... ;__;

Kirby has to fight close in order to do some damage on Yoshi. Final Cutter just won't cut it (pun lulz) since it is slower than Yoshi's eggs and has less range.

Both characters can gimp each other, too. Yoshis must remember to air-dodge while recovering (not attack) or face the wrath of Kirby's d-air or b-air. On the flip side, Kirby can't recover low because then he is succeptable to the d-air -> foot-stool combo. If Kirby loses all of his jumps he is dead.

I really can't comment on anything else because I haven't played a lot of Kirbys.

 

[joedragon15]

*sigh* u all r wrong. ( the yoshis) im sorry but from my perspective kirby cant get gimped by yoshi. cuz like idk. i just havent played a real good yoshi i guess because i played some hardcore yoshi mainers but i always either three stock or two stock them. so i cant really say anything but for me the yoshi and kirby matchup should be in kirby`s favor.

 

[Asdioh]

Cool, the Yoshis seem more eager to discuss the matchup than any characters I've seen before =D

I'm going to have to go with Starshot too.

As for your question, I'd actually go with copy in this case. Yoshi's Egg Lay is actually really underrated (being both unblockable and usable in the air - a very rare combination), and considering Yoshi's relatively unimpressive defensive options, it's always good to have another quick option against him.

The thing is, Inhale is also unblockable and unusable in the air, and most Kirbys are probably more comfortable with it than ... whatever Yoshi's B move is called O_O egg lay? ...

AND like mmac said, I think Kirby's form of the move sucks compared to Yoshi's. Plus you can Kirbycide if need be.

 

[Shiri]

As for gimping, I think both characters can do well on each other off the stage.

One thing I must put in, though, is that down aerial to footstool doesn't really work on smaller characters unless you catch them with the tail end of the down air. If you catch them even a moment earlier, they can DI up though it or out to the sides depending on which way you're drifting. Kirby also having multiple jumps leaves Yoshi and a very raw disadvantage if you attempt the maneuver since Yoshi is more likely to get footstooled than Kirby at that point since Kirby can literally spam the jump button until he 1] recovers, 2] footstools, or 3] both. At this point, even if you've successfully down aerial to footstooled Kirby, he still has plenty of steam to make it back to the stage most times.

Don't get me wrong; I think neutral air, forward air, and eggs are great tools to set Kirby up while offstage (about where 30% of my KOs on Kirby are generated). Intelligent use of neutral air especially will net Yoshi plenty of gimps and forward air for the braver Yoshis ties with every option Kirby has aerially except for his neutral air, I believe.

 

[MK26]

Kirby's aerials sorta go like this:
U-air: low pecent comboer
D-air: spike, KO setup
B-air: Multi-purpose, FOP
F-air: Pressure option, FOP finisher
N-air: Not much use...

How would Yoshi's be described?

Also, Yoshis, any input on stages?

Another thing...if Yoshi is forced to recover low, and Kirby grabs him after he uses his second jump and Yoshi's legs are dangling off the edge, Kirby can release Yoshi without damaging him and Yoshi will not be able to return to the stage. He can grab the edge, but it's basically a free edgeguard kill.

 

[Asdioh]

Why do so many Kirbys think NAir is useless ;_;

It comes out quick, it's extremely useful if you're in a tight spot or are getting comboed. A fastfall nair also comes out quicker than a fastfall Dair so you can catch people by surprise, plus it autocancels.

 

[Ryusuta]

The main reason I thought Kirby would get use out of Egg Lay is that it has a much shorter start-up and recovery time than inhale, making it great as an incoming aerial attack (even with the shorter range). Mmac does raise some good points about it, though. The main reason I would hesitate to copy Yoshi's ability in a 1v1 is that Yoshi is going to spend virtually no time whatsoever in his shield if he can avoid it. As such, he probably won't be blocking an aerial anyway. I suppose star-shot might actually be the better way to go, but I still think Kirby's version of Egg Lay has its own applications.

As for aerials, I would say that the primary uses Yoshi's aerials are as follows:

-Up air: A primary KO move. Extremely fast and kills at relatively low damage even when deteriorated. Also makes for a decent low-damage juggle.

-Back air: A "bread-and-butter" attack for a lot of Yoshi players. Damage-dealer, shield-poker, projectile ward (though not necessarily in this case), and a primary means for both approach and defense. You'll probably see a lot of this move.

-Neutral air: One of Yoshi's primary "GET OFF ME!" moves. If you're attempting to juggle Yoshi in the air, expect to eat one of these. Also makes a great aerial poke, nice follow-up for back air, and a (very) high damage KO move, in addition to also snuffing projectiles and helping approaches (though again, not necessarily in this case). A very overlooked move in Yoshi's arsenal, in my opinion.

-Down air: I recently heard this move appropriately dubbed the "chainsaw kick." Very fitting name, if I do say so. Down air will rip a shield to shreds, for one. It also does a crapload of damage if you eat the move while on the ground. In addition, there is a very real and extremely lethal possibility of taking a down air into a footstool, which is a favorite of some Yoshi players off-stage.

-Forward air: Overall the least useful aerial Yoshi has (especially in this fight), though by no means useless. In other fights, this makes a great release attack off of a chain grab. As for this fight, it can set up minor juggles and get a surprise spike on Kirby. Overall, though, I wouldn't expect to see much of this attack here.

 

[g-regulate]

i think kirby does great vs DDD, i often use him in the matchup. attacking with bair fair and grab are great to rack up damage, ultimately KOing with fsmash or hammer at around 100%. killing DDD at 100% each stock is a huge advantage in the matchup

 

[Ryusuta]

(This is why TC needs to be on top of changing the topic titles on threads like this.)

 

[~Shao~]

Why do so many Kirbys think NAir is useless ;_;

It comes out quick, it's extremely useful if you're in a tight spot or are getting comboed. A fastfall nair also comes out quicker than a fastfall Dair so you can catch people by surprise, plus it autocancels.

Autocanceled n-air into vulcan jab is great at racking up damage, specially against heavy-weights, but you can't get predictable.

 

[Yello-Kirby]

I think Kirby has an advantage over DDD.Since DDD is heavyweight Kirby quite easily grab combos him then its just a case of racking up damage.Plus since DDD is a big target hammer will be more likely to hit but on the down side DDD is harder to spike than the other heavyweights due to his many jumps.Fair,Bair and Vulcan Jab are all good at racking damage.

 

[fromundaman]

Kirby's aerials sorta go like this:
U-air: low pecent comboer
D-air: spike, KO setup
B-air: Multi-purpose, FOP
F-air: Pressure option, FOP finisher
N-air: Not much use...

A couple things I want to add:

U-air: Can kill at high percents
Dair: Can be followed up with a throw (at low percentages can Dthrow>Dair>Dthrow if the opponent expects a Utilt, or is heavy.) or tilt (Tilt if that last hit (the one that makes the shockwave) hits, throw otherwise.)
Fair: Can be fastfalled to cancel after the second hit and follow into another move
Nair: Can be Fastfalled to cancel into other moves (like vulcan jab, Dtilt or Ftilts for trips, Dsmash maybe...?)

Also, if you manage to starshot Yoshi just under the stage, he has a VERY hard time getting back, since hitting the bottom of the stage from below cancels his double jump. Basically, Yoshis, come from above if you want to gimp recovery. If you come from the sides, depending on where the Kirby is, he can inhale starshot you into a bad situation.

 

[MK26]

(This is why TC needs to be on top of changing the topic titles on threads like this.)

But...I changed the title before...I'm sure of it



Dedede discussion goes in the matchup export thread

EDIT: I'm dead sure I changed it

BUMP...I simply don't have the info (or time, but that's another matter) to write up a full Dedede summary. As such, I'll extend the deadline indefinitely, but hopefully we can get some meaningful discussion going and I'll be able to write it up in 2 or 3 days. For all subsequent Dedede discussion, I'd like to point you to this thread. The details are all there.

However, this does not mean that we won't keep going ahead with characters.

This week...

Character: Yoshi!

Battle of the nom...looks like Kirby won that^^ round.

Difficulty rating: 50-50​

Fire away.

Edit 2: Changed...

Does anybody have any feedback for my setup on the second post?

 

[~Shao~]

I think it's pretty nice, the colors help visualize. And placing the hard match-ups on top it's nice too :D

 

[MK26]

Dedede info complete!

Now we can pay attention to Yoshi!

 

[MK26]

I hate having to double-post, but this thread seems to die every Monday until I post here asking for something...and now, I'm posting here, asking for something.

Can anybody give me some information on Yoshi's stage preferences?

And how does Yoshi's knockback resistance (DJ armour, knocback resistance, juggernaut frames etc.) work? Is it up to 120%?

In other news, I'm almost done the Yoshi writeup

 

[Asdioh]

Yoshi stage preference...against Yoshi I would counterpick... *blanks*

o_O

MARIO BROS.

moar discussion by knowledgable people pl0x

if any Yoshis want to play me for my benefit and theirs PM me !

 

[MK26]

For week seven, we'll be discussing...

Character: Diddy Kong

Pantless Ninja is not pleased.

Difficulty rating: 60-40​

Yoshi is up, and to help Asdioh, I'm down with Diddy. Go!

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Diddy is 70-30 against me whoever I use lol. Can't deal with the nanerz. Someone who can needs to come forth.

 

[Ryusuta]

Sorry, I know we just went on to Diddy, but I wanted to answer a couple of the questions posed here about Yoshi really quickly.

Bear in mind that my Yoshi plays WAY differently from a lot of Yoshi players', so your mileage may vary. This is just personal experience talking.

Can anybody give me some information on Yoshi's stage preferences?

Yoshi freaking LOVES Final Destination. It gives him a few good approach options, allows him to play to his very impressive movement speed, and doesn't put him in any really tight spots.

Corneria is a fantastic CP for Yoshi, since the slopes give him a lot of great AT potential, and the close sides/ceiling help negate his relative lack of KO power.

Generally speaking, flat stages without a lot of platforms are good for Yoshi.

And how does Yoshi's knockback resistance (DJ armour, knocback resistance, juggernaut frames etc.) work? Is it up to 120%?

I think it varies from attack to attack. I've seen his armor last even under really high damage. To be honest, though, I'm not 100% sure about the metrics associated with it.

Yoshi stage preference...against Yoshi I would counterpick... *blanks*

Yoshi's Island (Brawl), hands down. At least for me. There are some Yoshi players that LIKE Yoshi's Island because of the great down B cancels, but I think it screws up Yoshi's game like nobody's business. YI is by FAR my least favorite legal stage when playing as Yoshi.

I'm not a big fan of Battlefield, either, for that matter. It's a pretty bad setup for Yoshi, especially against Kirby.

 

[ADHD]

60-40 in kirbeh's favor, kirby can just hop over everything, it's not like diddy cant just camp peanuts in the air/glide toss bananas up when kirby does that, but the match takes for god **** ever and kirby can just space fast falled back airs so diddy cant shield grab him. Diddy get's KO'd very early from that broken fsmash. Kirby is hard to combo which is probably where the clear advantage is. He's so floaty and it's very hard to follow up diddy's dash attack because of it. It's also pretty rare that kirby trips. The match is so slow paced and both characters will just be waiting for opportunities where the other makes a mistake.

 

[Asdioh]

Yoshi is up, and to help Asdioh, I'm down with Diddy. Go!

heart

Yoshi's Island (Brawl), hands down. At least for me. There are some Yoshi players that LIKE Yoshi's Island because of the great down B cancels, but I think it screws up Yoshi's game like nobody's business. YI is by FAR my least favorite legal stage when playing as Yoshi.

I'm not a big fan of Battlefield, either, for that matter. It's a pretty bad setup for Yoshi, especially against Kirby.

I see...what's this down B cancel you speak of?

I like Yoshi's Island because a surprising amount of people fall for Kirby's Stone Slide....both off the middle platform when it's slanted, and off the slanted edges.

It seems like the platform always likes to flatten out when I try sliding though >_>

60-40 in kirbeh's favor, kirby can just hop over everything, it's not like diddy cant just camp peanuts in the air/glide toss bananas up when kirby does that, but the match takes for god **** ever and kirby can just space fast falled back airs so diddy cant shield grab him. Diddy get's KO'd very early from that broken fsmash. Kirby is hard to combo which is probably where the clear advantage is. He's so floaty and it's very hard to follow up diddy's dash attack because of it. It's also pretty rare that kirby trips. The match is so slow paced and both characters will just be waiting for opportunities where the other makes a mistake.

hay ur the diddy who always beats me >_>

I've never seen anyone camp peanuts like that lol

I dunno. Even if Kirby hops over everything, if you have a banana or two sitting right around where you are, it's hard as hell to approach for Kirby. :/

Like if you're at a low percentage, I can't do the fthrow combo because it usually winds up with me tripping on a banana. I could dthrow or do a different through, but you can't do true combos out of those, so I find racking up damage on Diddy to be hard. I find comboing Diddy hard period, since it just seems like I can't manage to get him into the air. I think Diddy is fairly easy to gimp (his Up B at least) with Kirby's Dair, but I haven't been able to do it because wifi screws me up >_<

I heard someone suggest "learn to glide toss" and I asked if Kirby can do it, and he said every character can. Kirby can glide toss? Are there any banana strategies Kirby should practice?

 

[Ryusuta]

I see...what's this down B cancel you speak of?

Yoshi can slide out of and/or cancel the landing lag on his down b when he lands on a slanted surface.

 

[Triple_R2]

As far as I know Kirby can't glide toss. There's a thread somewhere that says which characters can and can't glide toss. I tried it too, it doesn't work for Kirby.

 

[fromundaman]

I'm pretty sure Kirby can't Glide toss, which hurts him for this match-up.

However, as Chrome mentioned, it can be hard for a Diddy to combo a Kirby, though the opposite is also true due to the bananas which get in the way of throw combos and Diddy's beastly aerials which can seriously mess with aerial combos if you're not careful (If I remember correctly, Kirby's Bair is the only one with better range/priority than Diddy's Fair).

On the plus side, Kirby gimps Diddy pretty easily, whereas it's incredibly difficult to gimp a Kirby with Diddy.

 

[DFat2]

You can pick up items pretty easily in Brawl. Since Kirby's Dash Attack has multiple hits, you could probably dash attack and ruin his glide tosses with good spacing. Not close enough to get hit by him, but not too far enough so the Dash Attack could connect.

On the plus side, Kirby gimps Diddy pretty easily, whereas it's incredibly difficult to gimp a Kirby with Diddy.

I cant really say for sure inside the stage, but outside it Kirby>Diddy all the way.

 

[T-nuts]

kirby can just hop over everything, it's not like diddy cant just camp peanuts in the air/glide toss bananas up when kirby does that, but the match takes for god **** ever and kirby can just space fast falled back airs so diddy cant shield grab him. The match is so slow paced and both characters will just be waiting for opportunities where the other makes a mistake.

That description sounds like every match ever between me and you haha

 

[Vulcan]

I must say, I recently played a diddy player and I won through my most cheap tactics I have done in a tournament in a long time <<;.
Diddy seems to have a bad recovery, so I took advantage of gimping him at low percentages once (double drill kick after throw combo).
2nd stock I final cutter spiked him.
Then on his 3rd I kirbycided him, heh.
BUT, he was doing a good job juggling me around with bananas, and the best advice I can give is staying in the air and avoiding his **** bananas.

 

[Asdioh]

I must say, I recently played a diddy player and I won through my most cheap tactics I have done in a tournament in a long time <<;.
Diddy seems to have a bad recovery, so I took advantage of gimping him at low percentages once (double drill kick after throw combo).
2nd stock I final cutter spiked him.
Then on his 3rd I kirbycided him, heh.
BUT, he was doing a good job juggling me around with bananas, and the best advice I can give is staying in the air and avoiding his **** bananas.

Unfortunately, your opponent was either 1. bad 2. ignorant of cheap Kirby tactics (Kirbycide will only work on ignorant opponents, unless they make a HUGE mistake or you pull off a slick Kirbycide unexpectedly) 3. extremely unlucky XD

I tried my absolute hardest against a Diddy today, and he doesn't even main Diddy, but he was pretty good. But I just could not beat the banana spam. Staying in the air helps very little, since he'll just walk past my slow aerial speed, while holding a banana, and wait for me to attack or land. I agree you can gimp him offstage (it's decently difficult to do though) but I have incredible trouble getting him offstage.

I'd rather fight MK.

I don't know if I hate Diddy or Snake more...at least Diddy takes more skill (or maybe the word is practice, since they all seem to do the same thing, and I've seen the word "autopilot" on the Diddy forums a couple times)

 

[fromundaman]

Heh, I tend to find Diddy fairly easy to gimp if you send him far enough. After all, his recovery is fairly easy to predict, the only problem being the rocket barrels that can interfere with drilling. Thus: Predict when he's going to be coming back at the stage and stone him. Sure, the Diddy will see it coming, but there's not all that much he can do unless you mess it up (Which, in my case, is still fairly often...).

 

[~Shao~]

I don't have much experience against Diddy, but I'll try to write something.

Character: Diddy Kong
Difficulty rating: 60-40
Overview: Banana spam all day. They usually go all offensive, approaching with glide toss to grab, banana into dash attack followed by u-tilt. But once they are forced into a defensive position, it's hard for them to regain momentum.
Pros: fast, good projectile (bananas), fast aerials and smashes, good juggling.
Cons: light, predictable and gimpable recovery, it can be hard for him to land killing blows and (I think) Kirby out ranges everything Diddy has, at least in the air. Oh, the bananas can be used against him.
Watch out for: bananas, all over the place; forward and down smashes, fast and kill; the occasional f-tilt, fast and can kill relatively early since it will be probably be fresh.
How to win: stay defensive, on the air most of the time, spacing f-airs and fast falled b-airs, trying to get him on the air where you can juggle him. Your smashes, mainly f-smash will be fresh since you won't be spending much time grounded, so you'll kill him early, and never waste a chance to gimp him, otherwise this match will take forever.
Spit out or Swallow?: you should probably spit out, because his peanut popgun is sub par and due to his bad horizontal recovery from below, spiting him under the stage is a good idea, and depending on the angle it can be almost impossible for him to come back, and because he has to charge his up-b before recovering, d-air is great at gimping.
What NOT to do: stay grounded, that's all I have to say.
Stages: Frigate Orpheon should be a good counter-pick, no ledge on the right side, platforms. From the neutrals, Battlefield should be your best bet, 3 platforms for you to avoid bananas. You should avoid FD, no platforms = ****, he has total control of the stage.
Synopsis: stay aerial, abuse b-air, don't miss a chance to gimp him, watch out for the bananas.

 

[Asdioh]

ah, but don't underestimate his aerials. Some of them are godly. And also don't underestimate Diddy without bananas...he's still easily very good.

I think. I should go to training mode and practice with Diddy, since I haven't memorized all his moves XD I haven't played him since like..the subspace emissary. Which was in March >_>

 

[fromundaman]

Indeed, Diddy without bananas is a force to be reckoned with, and his aerials are pretty good, but here's the thing: Bair outranges/outprioritizes all of them, except maybe his Fair.

His Dair is slow, so you'll see it coming, so no need to really worry about getting hit from above, and you can Uair him like crazy for it.

His Bair is fast and powerful, but fairly short ranged. I think your Fair outranges it, and your Bair definitely does.

His Uair has such a small range it'll be pretty much useless against you.

His Nair isn't even worth mentioning. The only redeeming quality is that it can be ACed.

His Fair is the main one to look out for.

Also, remember the popgun can be canceled, even in the air. A Diddy might try to bait you with a popgun charging in the wrong direction, then cancel it and Bair you as you approach.

Also, if you're coming down at him (Dair probably), watch for his Utilt or UpB.

Also, Kirby has much better air mobility than Diddy.

His side-B has good priority too when he uses the kick, but he never will from too far offstage, as he can't do an UpB after it until the move is over, and that kick stays out a long time, more than long enough to get him killed.

Overall though, Despite Diddy's good aerials, Kirby ***** Diddy in the air.

 

[~Shao~]

I'm in no way underestimating his aerials, I know they are good, but against Kirby, as fromundaman said, u-air is next to useless, b-air is short ranged and n-air is awful. However, he can gimp you with d-air, I've seen them using dash attack near the ledge followed by d-air, and his f-air may be the only aerial to out range your b-air.

About Diddy without bananas, he's good and all, but his ability to control the stage without them isn't great and he realies more on comboing you. Considering Kirby's light weight and your b-air > his aerials, that's going to be hard.

 

[Asdioh]

You can cancel popgun? O_o I did not know that...do you press the shield button to do it?

 

[fromundaman]

You can cancel popgun? O_o I did not know that...do you press the shield button to do it?

Yeah, just press shield to cancel it (at any time in the air, only during the first few seconds on the ground). They also sometimes cancel it to a glide toss.

ALSO... I don't know if Diddy mains know it, but they can Fsmash while holding bananas (though it's often hard to pull out in combat). I know, I've posted this in like 8 threads today... >.<