PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
No, the Shadow Temple from OoT.
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Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]
- Thread starter SkylerOcon
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Scott!
Smash Lord
Hm. I wonder if the Shadow Temple was closed off for some reason. I wonder what Zelda did after she and Link talked at the end of OoT as precautions against any further trouble. I mean, Ganon's execution was botched. Surely she didn't think he would be in there permanently. I wonder if Link could have told her of what Ganon did to cause mayhem. He unleashed Volvagia, Morphos, and Bongo Bongo on the realm. Bongo Bongo was freed from a curse or bond of some sort. I wonder if Zelda had the temple sealed off to prevent it from escaping should that seal ever break. Hm. I mean, this is all so far out of canon, but we don't have much to go on. We know the relationship between Link, Zelda and Ganon changed, but how much? What did Zelda do, while Link was gone, or before/after, if he returned?
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
That's what I said, Shadow Temple = Twili temple?
I don't know what that Shadow Temple looks like, but
"Amongst the rot and filth of scum is the Shadow Temple. No one dares venture into it or speak of its accursed name, for it is a symbol of pure evil. The Sages themselves consider sending it into the underworld."
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Shadow_Temple
Sounds like a strong candidate for a temple banished into the Twilight Realm.
You can't prove it to be a mistranslation. And how does it not make much sense? Look at how much we've grown in the last hundred years. Hyrule in TP isn't that different from Hyrule of OoT, and with a hundred years under its belt, a lot can change. Plus, look at how much hasn't changed.
I suppose it makes sense. I always thought it to be in the mountain behind Kakariko Graveyard, but it makes sense nonetheless.
I don't recall that quote from the game at all, and upon googling it, the only Zelda-related link that pops up is the one you posted. Ever think that Strategy Wiki just made that up? I surely do.
If you don't know what the Shadow Temple is like, don't talk about it. Go play through the Temple and you'll find that it shares no resemblances to the Palace of Twilight whatsoever. None.
Vorguen
Smash Champion
That is of course, whether or not you believe in the existence or inexistence of said possibly existing with a high likelihood of not actually being existent timeline...
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Well there is no way Wind Waker could only be 100 years after OoT with all the changes and the fact no one remembers the Hylian language...
If I'm not mistaken (which I'm not), Aonuma said that TP could take place "a hundred or so years after Ocarina of Time," meaning it could be one, three, or maybe even five hundred years.
Over the course of 500 years, dialect would definitely change substantially, the Zora and Kokiri could easily "magically evolve" into the Rito and Korok, respectively, and the Great Deku Tree II would have time to grow to its size.
Vorguen
Smash Champion
I would estimate a thousand years. Go online and look how long it takes the most massive trees in the world to grow to heir fullest size.
we have no reason to assume that 1 year our time is one year hylian time.
15 years our time could be the equalivant of 1 year hylian time, so we honestly have no idea how long after OoT WW took place.
Scott!
Smash Lord
We also have to remember that Hyrule has magic in it. We don't know all that much about it, but it can definitely affect things. Who know if the Deku Tree grows at a normal rate, or faster due to his magical nature? Also, from what we have to compare to, the WW Deku Tree is not at his full size compared to the OoT one. The OoT one was massive, with a full dungeon inside its trunk, branches, and roots. The WW One, while tall, is far from that size. I don't think 100 years is too far out there for that aspect at least.
The 100 years, assuming they're similar to our own in terms of length, does seem a bit impractical for the OoT-WW gap. To lose track of an entire nation where one's great-grandparents could have lived seems a bit much to ask us to believe. Language does change a lot, especially when the world changes a lot as well. And it would have to be magical evolution for the Koroks and Rito to come to be in any reasonable amount of time. It just wouldn't make sense any other way.
The 100 years, assuming they're similar to our own in terms of length, does seem a bit impractical for the OoT-WW gap. To lose track of an entire nation where one's great-grandparents could have lived seems a bit much to ask us to believe. Language does change a lot, especially when the world changes a lot as well. And it would have to be magical evolution for the Koroks and Rito to come to be in any reasonable amount of time. It just wouldn't make sense any other way.
SuperRacoon
Smash Journeyman
Oh yeah, the Deku Tree definitely grows faster than normal. This video proves it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ-5sJcxvwQ
The voice over is really funny too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ-5sJcxvwQ
The voice over is really funny too.
Ochobobo
Smash Lord
Not to mention that it takes about five minutes for the sun and moon to move across the sky making a full day in Hyrule, lol.
Though I've noticed that's substantially longer in TP. Maybe the planet Hyrule's on shifted its orbit further away from the sun?
Or they shorten days so you don't have to wait a full 24 hours to experience the effects of both night and day...
That's what Animal Crossing is for.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Maybe the number of minutes in a Hyrulian day is not considered important enough to warrant it not being tinkered with.
It has nothing to do with the plot, so the decision to change it was probably based on practicality for player objectives, rather than anything within the Zelda universe's history.
Ochobobo
Smash Lord
I was just kidding lolol. Of course it's not important.
But yes I would agree that we can't judge how much should happen within 100 years inside a land full of fantasy elements such as magic and even time travel. Geography-wise and magic-wise, TP could be parallel to WW in their separate timelines. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the language difference in WW, as PsychoIncarnate pointed out. Though we still don't fully understand what 100 years is to Hyrule, so we probably shouldn't worry too much about number of years between games to such an exact degree. . .
But yes I would agree that we can't judge how much should happen within 100 years inside a land full of fantasy elements such as magic and even time travel. Geography-wise and magic-wise, TP could be parallel to WW in their separate timelines. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the language difference in WW, as PsychoIncarnate pointed out. Though we still don't fully understand what 100 years is to Hyrule, so we probably shouldn't worry too much about number of years between games to such an exact degree. . .
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
In other words, we have no idea what we're talking about.
Kinda funny when you think about it.
Kinda funny when you think about it.
basically- it sounds stupid, but the time changes in LoZ make it insane to try to compare our time to Hylian time.
Ochobobo
Smash Lord
When you pause the game, you get this catchy beat!
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Battletoads is harder than Adventure of Link. And Adventure of Link is like 10x harder than MQ.
MQ isn't that hard. I actually found most of the puzzles to be easier.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Battletoads isn't hard until you get to the hover bike level that looks like you are going through someone's stomach...
I never beat that level legitimately EVER...I had to cheat
If you like that game, try the hardness of Bartman meets Radioactive man
I never beat that level legitimately EVER...I had to cheat
If you like that game, try the hardness of Bartman meets Radioactive man
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Scott!
Smash Lord
Master Quest was definitely harder than regular OoT, but I didn't find it to be the deathly painful, mentally ******, intense experience others describe it as. It was a nice change though, especially given the number of times I'd played through that game. I appreciated just how different some dungeons were.
SkylerOcon
Tiny Dancer
I still haven't beaten it, but last time I played it I was... 11? 'Tis been four years, so I can probably take it on now! Bring it, Zelda! 
But... I think that how hard some Zelda games are is exaggerated quite a deal.
But... I think that how hard some Zelda games are is exaggerated quite a deal.
Skrah
Smash Ace
Zelda games are actually pretty easy.. Especially the new ones. The old ones do give some challenge, but nothing unbeatable.
Although Zelda 2 was a ***** lol.
Although Zelda 2 was a ***** lol.
Zelda games have always been easy to beat, but generally are very hard to complete 100%. Finding all those **** golden bugs, the spider ****s in OoT, every map/chest in WW- even if they take more time then work, it is still a grind to complete 100%.
I still remember having a difficult time my first time through LA, couldnt find the last **** heart container.
I still remember having a difficult time my first time through LA, couldnt find the last **** heart container.
Scott!
Smash Lord
This is probably the best way to describe the difficulty in Zelda. Nothing in the main quest is usually so impossible that you can't do it with a bit of effort and thought. It's the side quests that can be killer.
And yeah, LA took me years to finish. Of course, I started when I was 6, so yeah. But that one heart piece in the Tal Tal cave on the other side of that wall... I know I got it eventually, but I have no idea how, and it took me forever. Eagle's Tower also took me a long time to get through.
After this long day, I now value Twilight Princess as much as Ocarina of Time, but in different ways. The reason why we Zeldanerds have said a million times that Twilight Princess does not compare to Ocarina of Time is because we see TP as a game trying to beat Ocarina of Time in a "remake" fashion, because all-in-all, it is very much a remake, with plot lines borrowed from A Link to the Past. However, without OoT to compare it to, it is the best title in the series. It personifies everything about Hyrule in such a grand way that no other game (besides OoT) has done. The reason why Ocarina of Time has lasted so long in such high favor is because it took the most risks with the series, transforming the top-down sprite-based series into a fully-explorable 3D game with entirely new content, physics, controls, everything. Everything about it was what we loved, but redone completely. Not a redux, but an entire reconstruction.
Upon looking back on TP, Miyamoto said that, "it's a great game, but it's not the Zelda we were aiming for. We tried to best Ocarina of Time, but ended up making a clone," or something along those lines (if I find the interview, which I believe is actually on his website, I'll post the link). In order to beat Ocarina of Time (which is Aonuma's longtime dream and retirement plan), they need to make a game that changes the series as much as Ocarina of Time did, and in as many incredible ways as possible. That's why they're taking so long to get any information out, because it's not just about graphics, storyline, art direction, or what have you -- it's about creating an entirely new experience, and that, I more than fully respect.
People would buy the N64 just for Ocarina of Time. The Wii doesn't have any titles worth buying the system for (none in the league that OoT was in), so I bet you anything Nintendo has held off on better first/second party titles so they can make this game an absolute. I'm so incredibly excited for this.
Upon looking back on TP, Miyamoto said that, "it's a great game, but it's not the Zelda we were aiming for. We tried to best Ocarina of Time, but ended up making a clone," or something along those lines (if I find the interview, which I believe is actually on his website, I'll post the link). In order to beat Ocarina of Time (which is Aonuma's longtime dream and retirement plan), they need to make a game that changes the series as much as Ocarina of Time did, and in as many incredible ways as possible. That's why they're taking so long to get any information out, because it's not just about graphics, storyline, art direction, or what have you -- it's about creating an entirely new experience, and that, I more than fully respect.
People would buy the N64 just for Ocarina of Time. The Wii doesn't have any titles worth buying the system for (none in the league that OoT was in), so I bet you anything Nintendo has held off on better first/second party titles so they can make this game an absolute. I'm so incredibly excited for this.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
I do have to say, I enjoyed using the double clawshot and the Ball and Chain in TP though more than items in previous games.
I think they should have added a crossbow instead of a regular bow in line with the more "advanced Technology" of the game.
I think they should have added a crossbow instead of a regular bow in line with the more "advanced Technology" of the game.
Scott!
Smash Lord
Heh, you're probably right about TP being the best if there were no comparisons. I am just mentally unable to keep from comparing them; OoT is just too significant of an influence on me. But I can see the arguments and see how they make sense.
But curse you. :D I had kind of stopped looking forward to the next game so much. Well, not really, but I had gotten it out of my conscious mind so that I could go on without itching to hear about it. Since we got going in this thread a while back, I'd been getting more and more excited, and I was just getting to where I didn't think about it.
yea, and a shotgun instead of the ball and chain...... /sarcasm
a crossbow wouldnt really change the aspects of the game, where the bow keeps with the Zelda tradition of a bow as a weapon.
i dont really see the "advanced technology" your refrencing. I dont consider the canons advanced technology, and moving around statues is just trippy. Not really advanced.
Ochobobo
Smash Lord
brawl, lol
But yes, not on the same caliber as OoT. When comparing it to TP, I really like the story in OoT a lot more. Midna did have a much deeper storyline than Navi. Though Saria had a much more complex character development than Ilia. lol
The story in OoT just seemed all around better. Hope I don't have to explain why...
And double clawshots really reminded me of playing Spider-Man games, lol. It was so much fun to swing around the city in Spider-Man 2...
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Anyone ever have trouble hitting Orca 999 times in Wind Waker?
...I just figured out that he can't hit you if you are blocking with your shield, so he's just become too easy.
...I just figured out that he can't hit you if you are blocking with your shield, so he's just become too easy.
Darkslash
Smash Master
Well I played TP first and I thought it was awesome. I then played OoT and the Nostalgia bug bit me in the ***. Too bad TP was a OoT clone. But this makes me have high hopes that the next Zelda will be different but how is the question.
P.S
mario team + Zelda team=Win?
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
The Legend of Zelda: Super Mario Acid Trip?
SuperRacoon
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB_T5LSSvVU
This fan made game is work in progress, but seriously, it would look like that.
I'd like to compile a list of all of our plausible thoughts for what could be in the next Zelda game. Please list the one, and I cannot stress that enough - THE ONE - idea you think will make it into Zelda Wii.
I'm pretty sure I've posted this before, but I strongly believe that if the next title is a sequel to Twilight Princess, then Ralis will play a vital role in the game, perhaps in league with that of the "big three". As King Ralis I, he will bring an era of new rule to the Zora nation, and furthermore, to that of Hyrule itself, as the Zoras are a prominent people. I believe that he may have a chance to awaken as the new Water Sage, to replace the one that was killed by Ganondorf.
In TP, Link sees the Sages weeping their lost one, but he too saves Ralis in this same adventure, a young Zora with incredible potential to rise as one of the wisest Hyrule has ever seen. Having lived through the deaths of both of his parents - his mother murdered by the twilit invader Zant. Too much of TP subversely (just made that word up, don't challenge me) revolved around Ralis, and not just the events involving the Zora people. Ralis can be seen as a parallel to even Zelda herself, as his throne was usurped too, and he was forced into hiding (Zelda, rather imprisoned), only to resume power by the climax of the story, as the forces of evil had been ridden.
Zoras represent the flowing of life through Hyrule, as their river cuts through the country, dividing it, yet sparking life everywhere. Ralis, the new King of the Zora, represents the apex of these people - of these agents of life. As we know fish to be all land-dwelling creatures' ancestors, the Zora may be viewed in this light to (despite life supposedly coming from the skies, and more particularly, the bizarre Oocca). Conceptually, this is still relevant.
So again, and in a nutshell, I believe that King Ralis will play a vital role in the next Zelda.
I'm pretty sure I've posted this before, but I strongly believe that if the next title is a sequel to Twilight Princess, then Ralis will play a vital role in the game, perhaps in league with that of the "big three". As King Ralis I, he will bring an era of new rule to the Zora nation, and furthermore, to that of Hyrule itself, as the Zoras are a prominent people. I believe that he may have a chance to awaken as the new Water Sage, to replace the one that was killed by Ganondorf.
In TP, Link sees the Sages weeping their lost one, but he too saves Ralis in this same adventure, a young Zora with incredible potential to rise as one of the wisest Hyrule has ever seen. Having lived through the deaths of both of his parents - his mother murdered by the twilit invader Zant. Too much of TP subversely (just made that word up, don't challenge me) revolved around Ralis, and not just the events involving the Zora people. Ralis can be seen as a parallel to even Zelda herself, as his throne was usurped too, and he was forced into hiding (Zelda, rather imprisoned), only to resume power by the climax of the story, as the forces of evil had been ridden.
Zoras represent the flowing of life through Hyrule, as their river cuts through the country, dividing it, yet sparking life everywhere. Ralis, the new King of the Zora, represents the apex of these people - of these agents of life. As we know fish to be all land-dwelling creatures' ancestors, the Zora may be viewed in this light to (despite life supposedly coming from the skies, and more particularly, the bizarre Oocca). Conceptually, this is still relevant.
So again, and in a nutshell, I believe that King Ralis will play a vital role in the next Zelda.
SuperRacoon
Smash Journeyman
Well, because there will always be a few items included that have extremely limited use, I'd like to see some rock climbing gear and see link scale much more treacherous mountains than Snow Peak and Death Mountain. It sort of falls more along the line of an upgrade for links climbing ability a lot like the gauntlets of strength upgrade links lifting ability. This could also be used to climb some fortress walls. Which brings me to my next point, there needs to be more fortresses, seriously, Gerudo Fortress was a really fun part of Ocarina of Time. Forsaken Fortress was also a way fun dungeon when you came to it the second time.
Darkslash
Smash Master
YES
My big thing is the Combat system. In order for Zelda Wii to make it into its own game the combat system too must evolve. One of the reasons why TP felt like OoT was the combat.
Unfortunately my forte is Mech fighting, so I cannot be much help in this section. Unless we get Zero G fighting.
And of course, the Pirates Fortress (from MM) was the absolute best.
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