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Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

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Ochobobo

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Might as well talk about the 3 goddesses while we're here.

Umm, well I guess they make mistakes too, unless they planned for Ganondorf to escape from the Sacred Realm with Link absent causing them to flood Hyrule. They don't seem to be omniscient and they're not completely omnipotent, they just seem to grant wishes via the Triforce and intervene whenever they feel it's necessary.

(lol at getting back on topic)
 

The Halloween Captain

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Might as well talk about the 3 goddesses while we're here.

Umm, well I guess they make mistakes too, unless they planned for Ganondorf to escape from the Sacred Realm with Link absent causing them to flood Hyrule. They don't seem to be omniscient and they're not completely omnipotent, they just seem to grant wishes via the Triforce and intervene whenever they feel it's necessary.

(lol at getting back on topic)
Actually, the goddesses strike me as a bit of a non-factor. The people selected for each part of the triforce seem to be completely at random to me, and by the virtue of the triforce alone, managed to ascend to their final positions. Wisdom probably created the royal family, courage turned farmboy after farmboy into heroes, and power completely corrupted the first person it came across.

If there wasn't constant mention of the goddesses, I would think they simply stay out of the Zelda universe completely.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Ganondorf was already corrupted before he got a hold of the triforce.

The triforce just game him the power to do whatever he felt like, and he keeps on getting reincarnated.



...At least the Goddesses don't go around mating with people
 

The Halloween Captain

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Ganondorf was already corrupted before he got a hold of the triforce.

The triforce just game him the power to do whatever he felt like, and he keeps on getting reincarnated.



...At least the Goddesses don't go around mating with people
Actually, if they did, it would explain a lot about the origins of the triforce weilders :laugh:
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I wonder if it's a given that whoever the Triforce of Courage accepts the Master Sword also does.
I don't think so

At least 2 of the Links had the Master Sword BEFORE the triforce of courage chose them.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Maybe it's just a coincidence the wielder of both are the same.

I think TP Link had the Triforce of Courage before the Master Sword.

I thought the only requirement for wielding the master Sword was "Being pure of heart"



Speaking of TP Link, does anyone feel like he cheated during the Mansion in the mountains, the Ice Temple....

ALL the other items you get are in treasure chests made for the dungeon, probably like the designer of the temple put them in on purpose. But Link picks up an enemies weapon for the ice temple like "I don't care about the rules, with this I is Haxxor!"
 

The Halloween Captain

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Maybe it's just a coincidence the wielder of both are the same.

I think TP Link had the Triforce of Courage before the Master Sword.

I thought the only requirement for wielding the master Sword was "Being pure of heart"



Speaking of TP Link, does anyone feel like he cheated during the Mansion in the mountains, the Ice Temple....

ALL the other items you get are in treasure chests made for the dungeon, probably like the designer of the temple put them in on purpose. But Link picks up an enemies weapon for the ice temple like "I don't care about the rules, with this I is Haxxor!"
Hey, I'm not complaining.

If anything, I liked it because of that special feeling. They should do that more often in Zelda games.
 

Skrah

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Hmm I'm not sure. They don't choose by the same qualities, if that's what you mean. I guess in order for you to wield the courage triforce you need to have loads of courage. And the Master Sword chooses the chosen hero to bane evil. They certainly work well together though.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I KNOW a wielder of the triforce of power could never wield the master sword - desire for power =/= pure of heart.

Wisdom might not be able to as well...knowing some, things, could turn you impure.

Link is a country bumbkin. Ignorance is bliss
 

Skrah

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I KNOW a wielder of the triforce of power could never wield the master sword - desire for power =/= pure of heart.

Wisdom might not be able to as well...knowing some, things, could turn you impure.

Link is a country bumbkin. Ignorance is bliss
Well, maybe that is it after all, but look at it this way.

Zelda. She has lots of power. She rules over Hyrule. She could be a perfectly good candidate for the triforce of power. But why is she such a good ruler. My guess is the triforce of wisdom. The triforce of power is generally the bad one of the lot because power corrupts weak spirited humans. Zelda is wise and won't let the power she has corrupt her.

That's why I would like the next Ganon (or even another character) to be a not good, not bad character, who stumbles into the triforce of power, and the power corrupts him into being an evil being.
 

The Halloween Captain

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I can't help but wonder how neither Link nor midna were totally corrupted in twilight princess.

They were dealing with some pretty intense evil forces, and midna isn't all that pure to begin with.

All the while, Link was infusing himself with dark magic for extended periods of time so that he could go wolf for all those puzzles.

If even Yeta became totally corrupted after a short period in which she was not even in direct contact with the mirror of twilight, how could Link and Midna withstand so much direct contact with pure evil and not be corrupted?

BTW, phazon corruption would be an awsome addition to Hyrule.
 

Skrah

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Midna is from the Twili realm, so I doubt she would be affected by Twili magic. And remember that Link could go wolf because of his strong spirit, or something along those lines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone became some sort of spirits when entering the realm.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I think it was the triforce of courage which protected Link from corruption.
 

c3gill

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That's why I would like the next Ganon (or even another character) to be a not good, not bad character, who stumbles into the triforce of power, and the power corrupts him into being an evil being.
Zant. he stumbled upon the power of the triforce of power (in the form of Ganondorf acting as a God figure). He wasnt a bad character- he just was rejected by the people who had been following, and turned to an outside source for power. He was corrupted by Ganondorf, and became the self-proclaimed ruler of the Twili


I can't help but wonder how neither Link nor midna were totally corrupted in twilight princess.

They were dealing with some pretty intense evil forces, and midna isn't all that pure to begin with.

All the while, Link was infusing himself with dark magic for extended periods of time so that he could go wolf for all those puzzles.

If even Yeta became totally corrupted after a short period in which she was not even in direct contact with the mirror of twilight, how could Link and Midna withstand so much direct contact with pure evil and not be corrupted?
Minda wasnt corrupted because.... she is one of the twili. Zant turned her into an Imp, so its no surprise that she kept her imp form in the Twilight. Plus, she was acting with the power of the Triforce of Wisdom.

Link... Im assuming that the Triforce of Courage protected him. But at any point in the game after stopping the advancing Twilight, Link did have the power to go back and forth at will between the 2 worlds. Possibly the curse that the master sword stopped allowed Link to keep his form in the Twilight?

Regardless, the Triforce is the ultimate force in Hyrule- so keeping those that hold the pieces of the triforce from any outside sources of corruption is only natural. I guess internal corruption still is an option.... Ganondorf.
 

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Zant. he stumbled upon the power of the triforce of power (in the form of Ganondorf acting as a God figure). He wasnt a bad character- he just was rejected by the people who had been following, and turned to an outside source for power. He was corrupted by Ganondorf, and became the self-proclaimed ruler of the Twili.
.
You're right lol. Although I didn't actually feel that corruption of mind and spirit, even though it feels weird. I want to see the breaking of a strong spirit, not some twili nutcase.
 

The Halloween Captain

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According to Midna, Zant was rejected because he was evil (filled with ambition, same dif). Aparently, all Ganondorf did was give Zant the power to do what he would have done anyway, if given the power to do so.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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According to Midna, Zant was rejected because he was evil (filled with ambition, same dif). Aparently, all Ganondorf did was give Zant the power to do what he would have done anyway, if given the power to do so.
That's the same thing that happened to Ganondorf when he found the triforce of power.
 

c3gill

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According to Midna, Zant was rejected because he was evil (filled with ambition, same dif). Aparently, all Ganondorf did was give Zant the power to do what he would have done anyway, if given the power to do so.
being evil and having ambition are the same thing? what? nooooo. we have no evidence that Zant would have done anything evil without Ganondorfs influence. Power is the source of corruption, and that power came from Ganondorf. If Zant had never been calling out to the heavens for a savior, he would have never achieved power, never usurped the throne, and the events in TP would have never played out as they did.

and Zant was the next in line to the throne, and was passed over in favor of Minda. that would piss most people off as well. Ganondorf appeared to him as he left the Twilight Palace, infused him with a small bit of his power, and gave Zant the ability to exact revenge.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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He went mad with power, but he wasn't a good guy in the first place.

Ganondorf gave him the power to do as he would, Ganondorf did not corrupt his soul with dark desires.
 

c3gill

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He went mad with power, but he wasn't a good guy in the first place. Ganondorf gave him the power to do as he would, Ganondorf did not corrupt his soul with dark desires.
he was a good guy in the first place- he was the next in line for the throne of the Twili. We had no negative knowledge about his beginnings, only that he was ambitious.

Ganondorf didnt directly corrupt his soul, directly. Without Ganondorf's power, Zant would have just accepted his fate. When Ganondorf gave Zant his power, Zant could get revenge on those who passed over him.

I can agree with the mad with power- anyone who is new to experiencing power is going to test the limits of that power (like a new car- its impossible to resist seeing if it can actually go as high as the speedomoter suggests). He used that power to access his desires, which at that moment was to become the ruler of the Twili. So he usurped the throne and turned minda into an imp.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Which was a dark desire that he had...

He was jealous
 

Ochobobo

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True, someone with an already good nature would have just accepted Midna as the better candidate, and rejected any evil outside influences. Zant wasn't experiencing just raw potential emotion when Midna took the throne, he was thinking that if he could he'd get his revenge. I'm guessing he knew the differences between good and evil.

I KNOW a wielder of the triforce of power could never wield the master sword - desire for power =/= pure of heart.

Wisdom might not be able to as well...knowing some, things, could turn you impure.

Link is a country bumbkin. Ignorance is bliss
Yep, he sure is good at solving puzzles though! Two different types of intelligence, of course.
 

Charizard92

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a: I was looking at the Greek gods thing for a moment, gee a lot of people can be immature. In Greek (and Roman) mythology, the gods can morph into anything they darn well please, whether it's some animal or some human in a different form.

b: OK, originally, Ganondorf wanted to help his people from their brutal conditions (see his speech before reassembling the triforce in Wind waker). However, after researching the Triforce, he concluded that this can only be done by force. this essentially corrupted him. The triforce of power corrupted him even further (and may have led to his dehumanization too). Neither Zelda nor Link are power hungry (Zelda refuses to rule by iron fist, and Link prefers NOT to rule), so they aren't good candidates for the triforce of power.

c: Twilight has NO corruption powers WHATSOEVER. It just transforms some light creatures into lost spirits and others into twilight monsters (namely NPCs into spirits and monsters into twilight). Midna has expressed that Most twilight beings were peaceful and kind (learning the past mistake of their ancestors), and to represent shadow, Midna originally had a devious and semi-selfish nature (Note the constant taunts and original lack of care of the light world [she cared about her realm, just not Link's]). She became more serious and less selfish after Zelda sacrificed herself to heal her (Seeing the constant sacrifices of Link and Zelda, she decided to help the light world too). Link was protected by his triforce piece, end of story.

d: Zant was originally slated to be king, but he was upset that the Twilight were trapped into the twilight realm and that the Light creatures exist freely in their own realm. His anger and lust for power made everyone choose Midna over him (Midna being kinder and non-power hungry). Upset, Zant encountered Ganondorf, who gave him some of the power of the triforce, which helped him take over and further any Corruption of Zant.

e: In terms of Link's intelligence, Link is actually quite similar to Modern kids (I'll use Bart Simpson). Link has a high IQ, very capable of solving puzzles and find weaknesses in enemies (Bart can come up with elaborate schemes and has a high mental agility). Conversely, He isn't knowledgeable, often acting without thinking straight, if not thinking at all (Wind waker is full of occasions). Bart has a lack of knowledge too, not knowing what the Equator is.
 

Ochobobo

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Great analogy with Bart Simpson.

Lisa: In fact, in Rand McNally, people wear hats on their feet, and hamburgers eat people!
Bart: Hmm!

Only difference is the player controlling Link chooses what to think of what people tell him, lolol

edit: LOL, wow nice comic
 

SkylerOcon

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e: In terms of Link's intelligence, Link is actually quite similar to Modern kids (I'll use Bart Simpson). Link has a high IQ, very capable of solving puzzles and find weaknesses in enemies (Bart can come up with elaborate schemes and has a high mental agility). Conversely, He isn't knowledgeable, often acting without thinking straight, if not thinking at all (Wind waker is full of occasions). Bart has a lack of knowledge too, not knowing what the Equator is.
Wait, modern kids are intelligent? If I were to come up with a list of the people in my grade who were intelligent, the list would probably come in at around 20 people. Out of... 600, I think.

But on topic, that's a very good description of Link. A naive hero.
 

Charizard92

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Knowledge wise, Modern kids are dumb***es (I can be considered an exception, and I can prove it with ease). Intelligence, as in the thingy the IQ tests actually measure, we are getting better and better. We are mentally agile, but we (and by we I mean you all) can't keep up a conversation for science for 5 minutes long.

Link is similar, as he is clearly mentally agile (note the puzzles), yet when it comes to wisdom (let alone thinking straight), he fails miserably. Link is clearly not wise, and he clearly isn't power hungry (he prefers NOT to rule), but he is of a pure heart and has courage most people can't summon. That is why he wields the triforce of Courage. In theory, the triforce has some sort of boosting effect on one trait, yet a draining effect on the other two. I already talked about Link (naive and without a preference to rule). Zelda wishes not to use an Iron fist, and when it comes to courage, she doesn't really have a lot unless Link is around (OK, there are a couple of examples somewhere when she does, but not all the time). Ganondorf is extremely arrogant, and he doesn't really need Courage.
 

The Halloween Captain

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Modern Kids lack common sense. Kids have always lacked the quality, but now they demonstrate it by microwaving things on youtube in the name of science.

I agree with the mentally agile thing though, it comes with the ADD 50% of the nation's kids have.
 

Skrah

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Talking about Zant..

I just passed a TP file (the one with no shield) and this cutscene always made me think. When Ganondorf has the Master Sword in his chest, he sees Zant, and Zant looks at him for some time and then.. snaps his neck? And Ganondorf´s eyes go white and he dies. What is this supposed to mean? I know they were somewhat connected, but the cutscene just formulates more questions.
 

Scott!

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Talking about Zant..

I just passed a TP file (the one with no shield) and this cutscene always made me think. When Ganondorf has the Master Sword in his chest, he sees Zant, and Zant looks at him for some time and then.. snaps his neck? And Ganondorf´s eyes go white and he dies. What is this supposed to mean? I know they were somewhat connected, but the cutscene just formulates more questions.
I always assumed that it represented the breaking of Ganon's power. Zant was only kept alive after the thrashing Link gave him by the power of the Triforce of Power via Ganon. When Ganon was defeated by Link, the power in Ganon was broken, and Zant lost access to it. At least, that's how I took it. Other interpretations?
 

The Halloween Captain

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I always assumed that it represented the breaking of Ganon's power. Zant was only kept alive after the thrashing Link gave him by the power of the Triforce of Power via Ganon. When Ganon was defeated by Link, the power in Ganon was broken, and Zant lost access to it. At least, that's how I took it. Other interpretations?
Ganon promised Zant immortality. Ganon did not fulfill his oath. Zant took Ganon's life as an act of retribution.
 

Scott!

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No, you did NOT just make fun of Is It A Good Idea to Microwave this!
Yeah, I think he did. But then again, he didn't microwave his Wii. :D

Also, at the captain, I'm a bit confused by that explanation. Did Zant set it up so that he would take Ganon's life if he died? How would he accomplish something like that, especially if he was under the impression that Ganon was a god? And wasn't Ganon defeated by Link anyway? I just don't see how it works. Ganon dies -> Zant's immortality lost -> Zant kills Ganon?
 

The Halloween Captain

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Yeah, I think he did. But then again, he didn't microwave his Wii. :D

Also, at the captain, I'm a bit confused by that explanation. Did Zant set it up so that he would take Ganon's life if he died? How would he accomplish something like that, especially if he was under the impression that Ganon was a god? And wasn't Ganon defeated by Link anyway? I just don't see how it works. Ganon dies -> Zant's immortality lost -> Zant kills Ganon?
Zant made a pact with a god. Zant fulfilled his part of the pact, to fill the world with darkness by mixing light and twilight, but Ganondorf did not ressurect Zant after he fell to Link, thus breaking Ganon's end of the pact. The scene makes a lot of sense if symbolism is applied instead of logic - as a scene concerning the penalty for breaking prior contracts.
 

Ochobobo

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So it's just poetic justice that Ganondorf happened to die shortly after breaking his pact with Zant, and not some predetermined plan by anyone? I'm guessing the scene with Zant was just used to reinforce the retribution then.
 

Skrah

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But it was kinda pointless, in a way. Ganondorf would still be dead, with the Master Sword sticking out of his chest and all. It would be entirely different if Ganon wear about to kill Link, and Zant takes his revenge then, so Link can kill Ganondorf.
Although the pact thing kind of makes sense, but I still think that Ganondorf simply gave Zant a bit of power, knowing Zant was going to try to cover the Light World in darkness (since Zant loathed the Light World) and simply used him as a mean to get what he wanted.
 
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