Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Vorguen]

Dude, I still don't think Link to the Past's graphics are outdated Scott.

Don't even get me started on "The Legend of Zelda: Put your Sword in the Fountain" graphics....

 

[Scott!]

Well, ALttP doesn't look that outdated, but OoT and MM do, as do LoZ and AoL. ALttP came out at the graphic peak of 2D console gaming, towards the end. For all that's changed since then, things haven't changed too much in 2D graphics. However, a lot has changed since OoT and MM.

LoZYSitF will transcend graphics themself.

 

[Skrah]

OoT and MM had fantastic graphics for their time. One of the first 3D games. I think that it was the first game were a character could have expressions.

 

[c3gill]

Go play WW first, and then TP. WW will give you a better understand of the happenings on in TP, and will help your understanding of the Split Timeline ideas.

And after all that cell-shaded BS youll need some real Zelda action to bring you back to the series. And after finding all those **** treasure maps, youll need a traditional Zelda game, with LAND and whatnot.

Lol I was just saying that WW's graphics were more "groundbreaking" than TP's, since c3gill keeps saying that WW's graphics are bad. Graphics don't make the game.

read what i said again- I dont like that everything is cell-shaded, I think there should have been breaks or something. I dont have anything bad to say about the game, I am just get sick of seeing everything cell-shaded. Dont manipulate what I was saying, or try to word it as if i think WW was a subpar game.

I agree that graphics dont make the game, but they can certainly get annoying. And seeing cell-shaded oceans constantly in a game.... well that irks me. Digging around for hours looking for treasure chests in the sea.... for me, after that I need a normal-graphic, traditional Zelda game- which TP is.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I agree that graphics dont make the game, but they can certainly get annoying. And seeing cell-shaded oceans constantly in a game.... well that irks me. Digging around for hours looking for treasure chests in the sea.... for me, after that I need a normal-graphic, traditional Zelda game- which TP is.

You couldn't define what a traditional looking Zelda game is, seeing as there has always been an about equal amount of Toon and Realistic Zelda games out there. You can't say 'oh dur hur hur WW is not teh normalz' when there are a nearly equal amount of Realistic and Toon Zelda's out there.

It also seems your main gripe is with the gameplay.

(Oh yeah, and every texture in TP being dirtied by the color brown annoyed me a ****ton. Same with nearly every other game being made today.)

 

[The Halloween Captain]

You couldn't define what a traditional looking Zelda game is, seeing as there has always been an about equal amount of Toon and Realistic Zelda games out there. You can't say 'oh dur hur hur WW is not teh normalz' when there are a nearly equal amount of Realistic and Toon Zelda's out there.

It also seems your main gripe is with the gameplay.

(Oh yeah, and every texture in TP being dirtied by the color brown annoyed me a ****ton. Same with nearly every other game being made today.)

TP has the graphics closest to the intended appearance of an ideal OoT of any Zelda game, thus being "normal."

I saw Fallout, and hated the lack of color and desolate nature of the game too much to enjoy it. Even so, TP does not ugly itself with brown, IMO. The worst in all of Hyrule is Karikiko, and even that town, though ugly, was authentic in appearance and more importantly, short. Other than that, TP is graphically dark for the sake of abiance, but hardly dirtied (IMO).

 

[SkylerOcon]

TP has the graphics closest to the intended appearance of an ideal OoT of any Zelda game, thus being "normal."

Yeah, for people who don't realize that there were Zelda games BEFORE OoT. Not to mention those two gameboy Zelda games that came out around that time... oh yeah! Those were Toon Zelda games, weren't they!

 

[Skrah]

Well calling it a "cell shaded BS" sends me a message that you didn't like the graphics. Word your thoughts better next time.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't consider the pre-OoT games to be toon link games. They were sprites, and in no way Cell shaded.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Cell shaded can work when done well.

Does it work better than the alternative?

Well... that's a matter of opinion. And in my opinion, epic is good, and the LOZ TP art style is simply the best way to make an adventure look epic without the ability to make it look completely realistic.

There is something fundamentally ideal about the Twilight Princess art style, in that it is in many ways more attractive to look at than the graphical powerhouses of Gears of War and Killzone 2. The textures could have been better, but the character models and facial expressions simply need no change, and the fundamental style and use of lighting and effects is better than a realistic style for Zelda adventures.

 

[Scott!]

I don't consider the pre-OoT games to be toon link games. They were sprites, and in no way Cell shaded.

He wasn't saying they were. He was talking about the Oracle games being toon games. Personally, I think that can be debated. I think they, and all the Zeldas that come before, are not either "realistic" or "toon" Zeldas. Perhaps "retro-stylized" is what I'd call them. I'd say OoT and MM are the first realistic ones, and TP is another. WW, FS and FSA, MC, and PH are toon games.

Also, concerning the bronwnness of the TP world; it's no more brown than the real world is. The world is not brightly colored.

And WW is epic too. The graphics don't (for me) diminish its epicness at all.

 

[Skrah]

Yeah I thought scenes from WW were far more epic than TP's. The graphics were okay, but with all the power Wii has, they could have done better.

 

[Scott!]

Well, TP cannot be judged by the Wii's graphical power. It is a glorified GC port. It runs identically, graphically speaking, on the GC. And don't get me wrong; TP is beautiful. But WW loses nothing in its style.

 

[c3gill]

You couldn't define what a traditional looking Zelda game is, seeing as there has always been an about equal amount of Toon and Realistic Zelda games out there. You can't say 'oh dur hur hur WW is not teh normalz' when there are a nearly equal amount of Realistic and Toon Zelda's out there.

It also seems your main gripe is with the gameplay.

(Oh yeah, and every texture in TP being dirtied by the color brown annoyed me a ****ton. Same with nearly every other game being made today.)

the cell-shaded graphics of WW are NOT the norm for the LoZ series. And yes, there is a norm for the LoZ series- realistic.

Only 2 games in the series have been cell-shaded: PH and WW. There is certainly NOT an equal amount of toon and realistic Zelda games. LoZ, Aol, LA, LttP, OoT, MM, The Oracle games, and TP were all as realistically as possible. MC, FS, and FSA were created as cartoon games, and as such have cartoon versions of Link. WW and PH are cell-shaded, which is similar to but not the same as the cartoon versions.

and you trying to demean my arguement with the "oh dur hur hur" BS doesnt help to prove a point at all- it only makes you look like an *** for not respecting an intellectual discussion.

 

[Scott!]

the cell-shaded graphics of WW are NOT the norm for the LoZ series. And yes, there is a norm for the LoZ series- realistic.

Only 2 games in the series have been cell-shaded: PH and WW. There is certainly NOT an equal amount of toon and realistic Zelda games. LoZ, Aol, LA, LttP, OoT, MM, The Oracle games, and TP were all as realistically as possible. MC, FS, and FSA were created as cartoon games, and as such have cartoon versions of Link. WW and PH are cell-shaded, which is similar to but not the same as the cartoon versions.

and you trying to demean my arguement with the "oh dur hur hur" BS doesnt help to prove a point at all- it only makes you look like an *** for not respecting an intellectual discussion.

Well, a lot of the early Zelda games have very stylized concept art and renditions of Link in the instruction manuals and such. He is drawn in a very non-realistic way. It is a bit silly to argue over the realism on the LoZ, AoL, and etc. graphics though. Personally, I think realism wasn't a big concern of theirs until OoT, but that's just me.

But, and I ask this out of curiosity rather than with any ulterior motives, what's your gripe with cel shading? You seem to strongly dislike it. I don't see a problem with it, so I'm curious.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, a lot of the early Zelda games have very stylized concept art and renditions of Link in the instruction manuals and such. He is drawn in a very non-realistic way. It is a bit silly to argue over the realism on the LoZ, AoL, and etc. graphics though. Personally, I think realism wasn't a big concern of theirs until OoT, but that's just me.

But, and I ask this out of curiosity rather than with any ulterior motives, what's your gripe with cel shading? You seem to strongly dislike it. I don't see a problem with it, so I'm curious.

He's always been in an anime/ cartoon form. the difference is that TLink is Chibi/SD.

It's not so much realism as Anime vs SD

 

[Vorguen]

The graphics in WW are really good so it doesn't even matter.

 

[Scott!]

The graphics in WW are really good so it doesn't even matter.

So, are you playing WW then? Or just appreciating it anyway?

 

[Skrah]

The games prior to OoT cannot be considered as "realistic as possible". There just wasn't such a concept, until 3D. An, just as Scott and Psycho said, its more of a cartoon/anime style.
And yeah, cell shading was just used in WW and PH, but the whole toon concept was used in both FSA, MC, FS, PH and WW, so, if the amount of games that have one artistic concept count as the norm, then toon style would be the normal Zelda graphics.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the realistic graphics, but the toon graphics are pretty cool, in their own way.
TP was supposed to be for GC, but since its on the Wii too I had expected at least a bit of improvement.
And I'm not bashing you for calling WW BS, I just misinterpreted what you meant to say because you talk aboutWW and all toon games in general in a very weird fashion.

 

[Vorguen]

So, are you playing WW then? Or just appreciating it anyway?

Appreciating. Today I was busy all day. I woke up and went to class, and immediately after I threw a Brawl party. lawl

So yeah soon I will pick up WW or TP. So far it looks like it will be 100% random.

 

[c3gill]

And I'm not bashing you for calling WW BS, I just misinterpreted what you meant to say because you talk aboutWW and all toon games in general in a very weird fashion.

I DONT THINK WW IS A BS GAME!!! i think it is a great game with one lacking component that tends to get on my nerves. And yes i consider pre-OoT games as realistic. They were intended to be as realistic as possible- I remember playing AoL as a kid and thinking it was amazingly life-like, and LttP was amazing for its great realistic graphics.

And for the moment I am done with this, UConn and Syracuse just went into a 4th OT. thats epic.

 

[Vorguen]

What component is WW lacking?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The Ball and Chain

 

[Vorguen]

I don't know. I doubt one item makes a difference. If anything I miss the pointless Megaton Hammer. lol

 

[Skrah]

I liked how you obtained the ball and chain. The item itself? It wasn't THAT great of an item. I always have equipped the bow, double clawshot and the dominion rod.

 

[c3gill]

why didnt yall say the spinner? that thing was awesome, and the boss fight in Arbiters was like a game of pinball... it was tight.

 

[Vorguen]

I want to roll around like a Goron again. =(

 

[c3gill]

I want to roll around like a Goron again. =(

...dont we all? If nintendo doesn't release MM on VC soon, ima bust a nut. Not having my 64 with me when im at college ftl.

 

[Skrah]

Buy a collector's edition at Game Stop.

And the spinner? I dunno, it didn't really fit. It was more of a one use thing, apart from the Desert Temple and some parts of the temples after that one.

 

[Vorguen]

What spinner?

 

[Skrah]

It's an item lol.

You get it in the Desert Dungeon. Its much like a board, but well, it spins, and you can spin some panels on the floor or spin by some lines on the wall. We should better change the topic so we don't spoil Vorguen anything.

 

[Vorguen]

Yeah...

I've only played Link to the Past (my first one), Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and the first temple of Twilight Princesses.

lol

I am currently debating as I said before between WW and TP first.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I liked how you obtained the ball and chain. The item itself? It wasn't THAT great of an item. I always have equipped the bow, double clawshot and the dominion rod.

Why the Dominion Rod? What use did it have after that whole owl statue quest?

 

[Skrah]

Yeah...

I've only played Link to the Past (my first one), Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and the first temple of Twilight Princesses.

lol

I am currently debating as I said before between WW and TP first.

Well, if you want to save time then play TP first. It is considerably shorter and you're already in the first temple, or already through it. But I recommend playing WW first, so you can compare the two Zelda games and more importantly compare how much changed from WW to TP.

Why the Dominion Rod? What use did it have after that whole owl statue quest?

Cause it's one of the items with most meaning story-wise. Also apart from the bow and double clawshots, the rest of the items are rather useless and not used a lot, and the Dominion Rod looks cool.

 

[c3gill]

Yeah...

I've only played Link to the Past (my first one), Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and the first temple of Twilight Princesses.

lol

I am currently debating as I said before between WW and TP first.

you should.... play the rest.... every time you dont play every LoZ game, a baby angel dies and is devoured by satan. so please, play them all.

 

[Vorguen]

Besides WW and TP and the ones I have played, which other ones are very good? I want to play the original Zelda also, that's on my agenda as well.

 

[Skrah]

Zelda 2 is very different from the other Zelda games, but just as good. To be frank all Zelda games are pretty good, just don't touch the Phillip CD-i ones.

 

[Vorguen]

I know about Zelda 2.... and about Zelda CD-i.... I don't know... the cutscenes really caught my attention... lol

 

[Scott!]

Also, Vorguen, the Oracle games are solid. Not as good as LA, but that still leaves plenty of room for awesome. Some people are not big fans of MC and PH, but I enjoyed MC, especially the second time, and PH wasn't that bad at all, though it was easy. So the moral of the story is play them all.

 

[Vorguen]

I will. It just looks like for now it is going to be TP / WW then the original.