Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Vorguen]

Link needs to die in the next Zelda and/or we need a new protagonist. Period.

I'd be okay with it if he dies AFTER we play through the game. Like, him dying in a final cutscene. A new protagonist? :/ Not so much.

Agreed.

What if the protagonist turned out to be someone "to different"?
Also, link is link. Taking the main hero out of the game will not only cause an uproar but nintendo will lose money. It's like saying "replace mario in the mario games". Sure, I'd love to see smaller zelda games that feature a different character (kinda like that super princess peach game).

I think redesigning him would be a cooler idea. Like the toon series.

Link dying though would be epic BTW.

-Bowser King

Why do you want to take Link out of Zelda.... why do you want him to die.... so wrong....

 

[Spire]

I'd really love to see Nintendo take a risk and remove Link from the game. Final Fantasy changes characters all the time, and look how successful they are. As long as the gameplay, story, and overall "Zelda" feel aren't changed (Link contributes to it, but so can a new protagonist), then all's well.

I respect risktakers, even if it means losing money.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Nintendo's risks with the Zelda series is to change the artistic style of the games

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I'd really love to see Nintendo take a risk and remove Link from the game. Final Fantasy changes characters all the time, and look how successful they are. As long as the gameplay, story, and overall "Zelda" feel aren't changed (Link contributes to it, but so can a new protagonist), then all's well.

I respect risktakers, even if it means losing money.

I would respect Nintendo more for getting rid of the green outfit than getting rid of Link.

Link is simply the puppet that never talks the gamer uses to wage battle in a virtual world. There is no reason to take the character/puppet "Link" away from the gamer. However, I would really like for him to get a new outfit or something. Running around as one of santa's elves is not epic.

 

[Darkslash]

Link is simply the puppet that never talks the gamer uses to wage battle in a virtual world. There is no reason to take the character/puppet "Link" away from the gamer. However, I would really like for him to get a new outfit or something. Running around as one of santa's elves is not epic.

Just make the **** Green Hat a hood. Still pointy, but more fashionable and looks cooler, if any indication of Chief Mandez drawings.

10chars

 

[Vorguen]

I agree about 0% with all of these statements. If you take Link out of my next Zelda game, I will not buy it.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Just make the **** Green Hat a hood. Still pointy, but more fashionable and looks cooler, if any indication of Chief Mandez drawings.

10chars

Why does Link have to wear green at all?

EDIT: It bothers me that of all the franchises, Link looks more like a dork than any of them, even Mario. Especially sinse there's an easy fix. It's not like the NES, where graphical limitations forced certain character model limitations (AKA Mario).

 

[Darkslash]

Why does Link have to wear green at all?

Back in the medieval time's the green knight in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, drew some parallels to the devil , due to them both being green and stuff. So Link could be a reference to the Green Knight. Also looking up in Wikipedia, the color green came from ye olde English growan, which means to grow. Link comes from a regular guy to the Hero of X. In a sense he grows.

EDIT: Looking more at Wiki's article on Green

Culturally, green has broad and sometimes contradictory meanings. In some cultures, green symbolizes hope and growth, while in others, it is associated with death, sickness, envy or the devil. The most common associations, however, are found in its ties to nature. For example, Islam venerates the color, as it expects paradise to be full of lush greenery. Green is also associated with regeneration, fertility and rebirth for its connections to nature.

Wow alot of that stuff relates to Link. A **** LOAD. Link to Hyrule symbolizes a hope in despair, and he grows. While to Link's enemies, he brings death, destruction and is almost a devil with all the misery he brings to them.

Link also returning back to stop Ganon also means he gets to a Rebirth Cycle. With Ganon defeat Link regenerates Hyrule to its old state.

Huh, maybe I should buy more green jackets with hoods..

 

[Skrah]

^ Darkslash explained it pretty well. Also, its as if you took Mario's overalls away. I think Link looks awesome in his tunic.

I don't want Link to die lol, BUT if Nintendo decided to do so, then I would still buy it.

And different games gain success in different ways, FF can keep killing off their characters all they want.

 

[Spire]

Very nicely written Darkslash That was a good read.

Alright, Link can stay, seeing as how he's a "link" between the player and the "hero" [of the same name]. But he at least needs a much broader wardrobe than a maximum of three outfits. Green "hero's" tunic as default, and many other combinations of tunic, hood, gauntlets, boots, and other optional apparel (like cuirasses, pauldrons, greaves, capes, robes, etc). That way, we can actually have things to spend rupees on so that our adventurer is just how we want him to look.

Also, could Link be a female [optional]?

ALSO, I think there needs to be a major focus on weaponry and the establishment of an equilibrium between all weapons. I want to be able to use the bow as much as the sword, both effective in their own ways (among other items).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yes, a lesbian LinkXZelda couple would be perfect for the series...

I'd actually still want to play as Ganondorf and conquer hyrule!

 

[Darkslash]

D'oh

I just realized that Link also wears green because of his connection to nature. The Sages(Elements), his spells(Fire,Wind, Water?), the Master Sword(found in the Woods. The Temple of Time had woods in the back), and his backround, either as a country boy,thus knowing the terrain and the earth very well, or growing up in the Forrest.

 

[Skrah]

I was actually thinking about Link riding Epona much like the other dude in Shadow of the Colossus riding Agros. Just standing on top of your horse, in full trot, shooting arrows masterfully at enemies.

Link being female?? I dunno lawl. I guess there's always been some sort of romantic link bewteen Zelda and Link, although lesbian couple.. hmm I'm sold haha.

But seriously why would Link need all that stuff. It would be cool if you had equiped non usable items (such as the golden gauntlets in OoT) to be visible.

 

[Spire]

But seriously why would Link need all that stuff. It would be cool if you had equiped non usable items (such as the golden gauntlets in OoT) to be visible.

Customization for both appearance and gameplay.

 

[Skrah]

Customization for both appearance and gameplay.

So what you´re saying is like pieces of clothing or armour that not only make you look cooler or however you want to look, but also give more defense or more attack power?

 

[Darkslash]

Hmm i was thinking, what if they added a new weapon. Maybe a Europeanized Kusarigama. Due to Hylian tech different to ours, and if the Hook/ClawShot is any indication it might work.

You swing the Kusarigama up onto a ledge and you can climb it.
The Kusarigama being a scythe stuck into a chain can be throw and be used as a swing of sorts
The Kusarigama can also evolve combat. Using it to disarm enemies, can change Zelda AI for good. You disarm an Mulbin, and it will fight or flee. If its alone it will flee. But if its in a fairly large group it may fight. I'm sure Nintendo can refine it better than me. >.>
Change enemy designs? Ganondorf may do a complete overhaul so 3/4ths into the game you'll see some new variations with weapons that can't be pulled off so easily.

I dunno it would be awesome to see the Kusarigama in a Zelda. As long as it doesn't go God of War, I would be totally cool.

P.S: Z.E.R.O needs to do the Zant theme. I loved that boss battle theme and it may be TP's best.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

To be honest, Dark Slash's analysis of Link's use of the color green sounds like it was taken straight from a horiscope. I mean, you could point out symbolism behind any color and reature the same level of validity. for example, the color red is a symbol of courage, sacrifice, bloodshed (naturally), and love (let your Zelda imagination run wild) among other things.

And clothing that gives you more attack/defence power is actually really common, I'm a little surprised it hasn't already been done in a Zelda. Must be the iconic nature of that green tunic and elf hat.

EDIT: Which Zant theme are you talking about? There's like six different songs in reference to a Zant battle.

EDIT2: b/c the music keeps changing for the different phases of the battle.

 

[Darkslash]

To be honest, Dark Slash's analysis of Link's use of the color green sounds like it was taken straight from a horiscope. I mean, you could point out symbolism behind any color and reature the same level of validity. for example, the color red is a symbol of courage, sacrifice, bloodshed (naturally), and love (let your Zelda imagination run wild) among other things.

Then I shall do more cross examinations then...

Red:

In human color psychology, red is associated with heat, energy and blood, and emotions that "stir the blood", including anger, passion, and love.

Link, he almost lives for the passion of battle. Any indication that his catchphrase is "HYA" He spills the blood of his enemies, and some of his own. He possibly loves Zelda(OoT/TP) and Midna(TP) and is willing to give his life for Hyrule.

Blue:

In the English language, blue may refer to the feeling of sadness. "He was feeling blue". This is because blue was related to rain, or storms, and in Greek mythology, the god Zeus would make rain when he was sad (crying), and a storm when he was angry. Kyanos was a name used in Ancient Greek to refer to dark blue tile (in English it means blue-green or cyan).[3] The phrase "feeling blue" is linked also to a custom among many old deepwater sailing ships. If the ship lost the captain or any of the officers during its voyage, she would fly blue flags and have a blue band painted along her entire hull when returning to home port

This applies more to the TP Zora's than any thing. They lost their Queen to Zant and Ganondorf, and I can assume that they have built up rage and sadness. Also it seems that Zora's can sense evil, a-la Lakebed temple.

Some languages did not have a real separate diversion for Green and Blue, so some of it can be said of Link as well

Purple

In human color psychology, purple is associated with royalty, regality, and nobility (stemming from antiquity where Tyrian Purple was only affordable to the elites).

Link fights for royalty, his parents in OoT could possibly been Nobles(seeing as his Father could of been a Knight of Hyrule) thus making him a Noble as well.

Gold/Yellow:

The color is associated with age and aging, both with people and objects....The term is associated at times with jealousy, as well as cowardliness

Link age's through the games, getting older. When Link's tunic turns Yellow/Gold, he's Super Link. I would run out of there if I was a grunt, hence cowardliness.


I can't believe I wrote all that stuff.

 

[Skrah]

Yeah, but remember that a lot of game designers like to "connect" things. Stuff that you think were done randomly could have a deeper meaning. This is what reading between the lines mean. Link comes from the forest, so its only natural that he should wear green garments, among other things.

 

[Ochobobo]

How about a game where you fight your way through 3 dungeons, then get a Master Sword, fight your way through 5 more dungeons, and then finally fight Ganondorf in the end!

I actually still like that formula, but slight alterations would be welcome too I suppose. Maybe 5 dungeons then 3 or maybe 4 then 4!

 

[Scott!]

How about a game where you fight your way through 3 dungeons, then get a Master Sword, fight your way through 5 more dungeons, and then finally fight Ganondorf in the end!

I actually still like that formula, but slight alterations would be welcome too I suppose. Maybe 5 dungeons then 3 or maybe 4 then 4!

Personally, I wouldn't mind a return to the old formula of 3, then 8, circa ALttP. I like dungeons. Plus, with that many, they're forced out of the standard types. Some will have to be new and unique.

As for the colors, yeah, there's a serious confirmation bias on the symbolism, but the green is still important.

Also, there have been Zelda games with outfits changing his stats, just none recently. I believe ALttP and LA Deluxe had them.

 

[Spire]

How about a game where you fight your way through 3 dungeons, then get a Master Sword, fight your way through 5 more dungeons, and then finally fight Ganondorf in the end!

I actually still like that formula, but slight alterations would be welcome too I suppose. Maybe 5 dungeons then 3 or maybe 4 then 4!

How about there is no set number like there always has been. It's always been "collect three of something, then get the Master Sword". I'm tired of this pattern. They need to do something totally unexpected. Perhaps after completing four dungeons, midway through the fifth - a dungeon based in/outside of some high mountain cliffs, cloaked with fog - something crazy happens and you're run out of the dungeon, not to return til much later in the game. After fleeing from whatever danger lies in the dungeon, you find yourself in some otherwise inaccessible ruins in a valley at the base of this mountain (not Death Mountain mind you). Upon exploring them, you stumble onto the _______ Sword, but before drawing it, you must complete certain tasks, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Well, after retrieving the sword, you make your way back to the Hyrule mainland, not to return to this strange Mountain for quite a long time - say, six dungeons later (that means that you've completed ten dungeons by the time you return to this place). And so you do. After completing it, you have maybe... three or four more dungeons after that. This game is HUGE. And that's not to mention the extra, optional dungeons either.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Make the world of Zelda as massive as Morrowind/ Oblivion...

 

[Scott!]

How about there is no set number like there always has been. It's always been "collect three of something, then get the Master Sword". I'm tired of this pattern. They need to do something totally unexpected. Perhaps after completing four dungeons, midway through the fifth - a dungeon based in/outside of some high mountain cliffs, cloaked with fog - something crazy happens and you're run out of the dungeon, not to return til much later in the game. After fleeing from whatever danger lies in the dungeon, you find yourself in some otherwise inaccessible ruins in a valley at the base of this mountain (not Death Mountain mind you). Upon exploring them, you stumble onto the _______ Sword, but before drawing it, you must complete certain tasks, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Well, after retrieving the sword, you make your way back to the Hyrule mainland, not to return to this strange Mountain for quite a long time - say, six dungeons later (that means that you've completed ten dungeons by the time you return to this place). And so you do. After completing it, you have maybe... three or four more dungeons after that. This game is HUGE. And that's not to mention the extra, optional dungeons either.

I want this game now, please. But I seriously like the idea of a dungeon you return to later like this. Just as long as it's not like the Ocean King dungeon, or whatever it is, in PH, where you have to keep coming back over and over. That was dumb. But this sounds awesome. Just as long as they make you leave, rather than just presenting an impossible puzzle. I'd try to solve it so hard, and would be sad at my failure.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Make the world of Zelda as massive as Morrowind/ Oblivion...

They could call it:

The Legend of Zelda III: Morrowind

 

[Scott!]

They could call it:

The Legend of Zelda III: Morrowind

III? Why III? Aren't there like... 15 or so? Unless you want it to be a sequel to AoL, which would be interesting, though I don't know much of anything about it.

 

[c3gill]

But I seriously like the idea of a dungeon you return to later like this.

Spirit Temple. OoT. First you do it as a child, then you have to come back and do it as an adult.

For variations, do the Uber challenge- complete the child section before you get the gorons ruby or the zoras sapphire- if done correctly it will be the 2nd dungeon you do.

 

[theunabletable]

NO! Your totally wrong, TP was one of the best games ever.

It was completely unoriginal.

Collect 3 items and get the MS (OoT is guilty of this too), get the MS in the forest, it seems like someone is behind it. But wait NO IT'S GANON!!!! Go into a Dark World, turn into an animal when you enter the dark world, the japanese word that describes Zant (omni-something...) is extremely similar to what describes Agahnim in LttP, use a mirror to travel in between the worlds. Does any of that sound like another Zelda game? Hmm sounds an awful lot like LttP.

Are you saying that AoL comes after LttP? That's instant wrong right there. Ganon was revived in LttP, and Ganon was already terrorizing Hyrule in LoZ, so no your time line is wrong...

1) Ganon was not revived in LttP. He was in the Sacred Realm. Stuck in the Sages Seal from OoT. The Swamp Maiden says that Ganon "rediscovered" the Sacred Realm and got stuck in it.

The only other place LoZ works is right before tMC. It's almost impossible to place LoZ because of the Triforce. The Triforce and the AoL Backstory make no sense in the child timeline. Therefore it has to take place in the Adult Timeline.

FSA is shown as an island. Obviuosly it should go on the AT. But it also makes many connections with the GBA LttP. And the Imprisoning/Seal War described in LttP can only be the events of OoT. So FS/FSA-LttP has to happen on the adult timeline. I don't think tMC makes any sense before OoT so I place it before FS/FSA.

The translations of the Japanese versions of the oracle games Twinrova says that they are putting Ganon's soul into the Yorishiro. A Yorishiro is an inanimate object to hold a soul.
In the translated FSA the trident is described as a Ja-Ki which can be translated as vessel. So if the trident of FSA is a vessel of the Yami no Maou (Demon King of Darkness) and in the oracles Ganon's soul is put into an object. And then Ganon states that he has become the Yami no Maou. Then wouldn't it have to go OoX---FSA?

the land is coming together because of the Deku Tree's plan. This is also evidenced because there is more land in the present part of OoA than the past.

Well there is some of the evidence for my timeline.

 

[Vorguen]

Very nicely written Darkslash That was a good read.

Alright, Link can stay, seeing as how he's a "link" between the player and the "hero" [of the same name]. But he at least needs a much broader wardrobe than a maximum of three outfits. Green "hero's" tunic as default, and many other combinations of tunic, hood, gauntlets, boots, and other optional apparel (like cuirasses, pauldrons, greaves, capes, robes, etc). That way, we can actually have things to spend rupees on so that our adventurer is just how we want him to look.

Also, could Link be a female [optional]?

ALSO, I think there needs to be a major focus on weaponry and the establishment of an equilibrium between all weapons. I want to be able to use the bow as much as the sword, both effective in their own ways (among other items).

Deku Link? Goron Link? Zora Link? Fierce Deity Link? Green/blue/red Link? 500 different colors 2-D Zelda games Link? Pre-tunic Link? What, do you want him to prance around in a Tutu for you to be happy? lol

And for that matter, Link stays as a man. I don't not need no big breasted bimbo saving the lands of Hyrule. We leave females to the role of being captured. Enter Zelda.

 

[Darkslash]

Heh maybe for once they should make the master sword the key Item in the dungeon. You grab the Master Sword, Dark Link comes out and the boss of the dungeon is Phantom Ganondorf trying to do a tactical assessment, beat the crap out of Phantom Ganondorf and the real Ganny sighs and wonders why he didn't kill this pitiful creature back in the forest.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Maybe Link should have to deal with his darkside and get's to weild Ganon's Trident after coming to terms with it.

A game also, with a new villain to explain how Link get's the Trident.

 

[Vorguen]

Ganon often rises to power and it takes a while for Link to confront him (waiting the years to grow up once he reincarnates?)

Maybe they can make a game with Ganondorf as the main character featuring his rise to power.

Or one with Zelda with a similiar plot take like above.

 

[Darkslash]

/tWW/PH-OoX(/LA)-tMC-FS/FSA-LttP(/LA)-LoZ/AoL
OoT
\MM-TP.

1) Ganon was not revived in LttP. He was in the Sacred Realm. Stuck in the Sages Seal from OoT. The Swamp Maiden says that Ganon "rediscovered" the Sacred Realm and got stuck in it.

FSA is shown as an island. Obviuosly it should go on the AT. But it also makes many connections with the GBA LttP. And the Imprisoning/Seal War described in LttP can only be the events of OoT. So FS/FSA-LttP has to happen on the adult timeline. I don't think tMC makes any sense before OoT so I place it before FS/FSA.

Well there is some of the evidence for my timeline.

Sir you have just made the biggest mistake ever. I hope you can figure it out becuase it was one of the most crucial and most lol'ed moments in Wind Waker. Due to that one fact in Wind Waker, your whole theory crumbles like dust.

Click for a hint.

That's right..due to the evidence on that Link*lol* Sign of Madness theory crumbles.

 

[Ochobobo]

I'd like to see more Triforce-based storylines. Or even subtle references to it, such as how Link and Zelda survived the Twilight Realm, and how Ganondorf escaped his execution.

 

[theunabletable]

Sir you have just made the biggest mistake ever. I hope you can figure it out becuase it was one of the most crucial and most lol'ed moments in Wind Waker. Due to that one fact in Wind Waker, your whole theory crumbles like dust.

The tWW Ganon fight music? What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Darkslash]

The tWW Ganon fight music? What does that have to do with anything?

Please review your theory again. You'll see how big your mistake is. In a sense that music makes your theory wrong.

 

[theunabletable]

I asked you to explain. Not repeat yourself.

Ok I'm going to assume you are talking about either why: Ganondorf is dead at the end or why the MS is underwater. I can easily answer both of those.

In OoX (OoX means the oracles, btw) Ganon is revived. If his body is gone in OoX they would need to create a new body. Which they did. Why not create the body of Ganon, his more power form.

Then the MS. In OoX if you use passwords to get the Noble sword (in the Japanese text it's actually called the White Sword) then in OoA you do the trading game to get the broken sword from the Zora. When you repair that it becomes the Master Sword.

Zora's live in water. MS was in water. I'm sure you can piece it together.

If I was wrong about what you were talking about then please inform me.

 

[c3gill]

In OoX (OoX means the oracles, btw) Ganon is revived. If his body is gone in OoX they would need to create a new body. Which they did. Why not create the body of Ganon, his more power form.

Then the MS. In OoX if you use passwords to get the Noble sword (in the Japanese text it's actually called the White Sword) then in OoA you do the trading game to get the broken sword from the Zora. When you repair that it becomes the Master Sword.

It is pretty debatable wether the Oracle games are part of Zelda canon, as they were not developed by Nintendo- so if your going to argue a point about the LoZ timeline or events, your going to need to avoid using them as your only source.

If you can back it up with refrences from another Zelda game, it will be much more acceptable. But using something that came from a Capcom game to determine events that happen in the LoZ timeline is very debated.

 

[theunabletable]

^Why are they mentioned in the Zelda retrospective on the collector's edition released by Nintendo? FSA makes references to it as well as TRR does. And it is the only time in the entire timeline to show why Ganon became a Yami no Maou.
Japanese lesson for 'ya.

Ma means demon. Makai (demon world) Mazoku (demon tribe)
Ou means king. So Maou means demon king.
Yami means darkness.
Dai means great or big.

Ganon in OoT, LoZ, tWW and partly OoX call him a Daimaou.
In OoX Twinrova and everyone calls Ganon a Daimaou. Twinrova has to put Ganon's soul into a Yorishiro. In FSA Ganondorf touches the trident of the demon. He gains its power and then becomes the Yami no Maou Ganon.

Right after OoX Ganon is resurrected he claims to be the Yami no Maou. If the Yorishiro is the trident then OoX--FSA is 100% undeniable.

There is no reason to think that OoX isn't canon. It was released by Nintendo and is on the Nintendo site and all other official resources.

 

[Scott!]

The Oracles Games are definitely official Zelda games. They, as you said, were released by Nintendo, etc., etc. That's not the issue. Whether they are canon is an entirely different question. It seems more likely that they are spin-offs. They, as far as I know, were not designed by the same people (Miyamoto and Aonuma). The likelihood that they fit directly into the timeline as created by those two is slim. More likely, they were just made with no specific Link, time, or even timeline in mind.

It's the same deal with MC and the FS games. Trust me, trying to make MC fit into the timeline correctly is an exercise in futility. It requires so much stretching and artistic license that it's not worth it. I haven't played the FS games, so I can't comment on them.