The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[Fatmanonice]

Apparently, few people care enough about what SamuraiPanda says to read what he says thouroughly (and I've also pointed this out already).SamuraiPanda said this:
"One stage was actually voted counterpick/banned the first time, but I personally called for a revote because I discovered that it did the impossible... it counterpicked Metaknight. On that alone, the stage was voted in as counterpick."

So it's one of the following stages:
Brinstar
Corneria
Distant Planet
Frigate Orpheon
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)

My guess is Yoshi's Island (Pipes).

Oh, I see you edited your post while I was posting this.

*points at edited post that was added before this was added*

I just noticed that Green Hil Zone is on that list. Doesn't that seem a little odd to anyone else? That might be it because I believe it used to be a counterpick/banned earlier this year.

Later on: It does make sense when I think about it a little. The spinning check marks do a good job of guarding against most of his attacks and they even out prioritize his tornado plus the stage gets rid of his gimping game. I'm testing it a little bit right now and I've also noticed that he slows down when running up and down the slopes in this stage and the spinning check points can kill him at as low as 65% (!). The breaking of the ground also forces him in the air which kills his ground speed thanks to his slow aerial movement. Hmm...

 

[Yuna]

*points at edited post that was added before this was added*

Oh, I see you edited your post while I was posting this.

*10 shotalinks*

 

[Mmac]

Why can't you just call it Yoshi's Island: Melee? >_>

 

[GofG]

Why isn't this thread locked yet?

 

[ProBrawler]

Why can't you just call it Yoshi's Island: Melee? >_>

With his infinite on Snake and others, a MK countering level, and other new techs, Yoshi should be banned, he's too broken X] Jk, but seriously Yoshi's Island: Melee is a counter b/c:

This stage originally was in both the counterpick/banned category, but after a revote it was decided that this stage was a unique counterpick that was very effective against light characters (especially Metaknight); worries of D3's chain grab existed, but were not enough to warrant placing this in the ban category.

Where I found that shall remain a mystery <_<; Though it's pretty obvious.

 

[Matador]

Why isn't this thread locked yet?

I thought the purpose of this thread was to prevent locking a bunch of little silly threads and usher them all to this one big silly thread.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I don't think anyone should get banned today.

However, should we encourage the use of overlooked characters rather than just see MetaKnight, Snake, R.O.B and the space animals?

Like Jiggs!

WOOOO JIGGS!!!

Actually there's no reason to encourage the use of crappy characters. Jiggs isn't low because she's overlooked, she just sucks. >.>

 

[Steeler]

metaknight's metagame would have to advance a HOLY **** LOAD A LOT to warrant a ban.

 

[Pose]

He may seem overpowered, I guess, but I don't agree on him needing a ban just yet. Everyone should wait until he absolutely dominates the scene and becomes the only viable character. Until then, we can all enjoy getting our *** kicked by him ^_^x

 

[MarKO X]

He may seem overpowered, I guess, but I don't agree on him needing a ban just yet. Everyone should wait until he absolutely dominates the scene and becomes the only viable character. Until then, we can all enjoy getting our *** kicked by him ^_^x

if he dominates the scene, that is. if the community is lazy, then he will dominate the scene because everyone will pick MK. if the community wants to advance the metagame, even iof they have to advance it around MK, then it'll advance around MK and maybe MK won't be so dominant. but absolutely, wait and see what happens before such rash decisions are made.

 

[Fatmanonice]

metaknight's metagame would have to advance a HOLY **** LOAD A LOT to warrant a ban.

He does seem to be getting better and better over time though and now he's almost to the point of having no counters and like 2/3 neutral matchups. That's not enough to warrant a ban but it's something to think about.

Also, your sig is awesome. Probably the best one I've seen in months. I'm dead serious too.

 

[Taylor]

When you go to tourneys, pinch MK/Snake mains.
Hopefully, this will decrease their numbers.

 

[Brinzy]

On the likely chance that this does not work, shoot them.

 

[MarKO X]

Yup... the gun is the best counter for MK and Snake.

 

[gallax]

about the snake/pika matchup it really can go either way. pika is a counter for snake, but due to snakes power snake can kill pika at like 85% if used right. the first thing that pika has against snake is the CG up to about 45% i believe. some say 60% but i think it may be a little to high.the tjolt can stop the nades and explode them. snakes recovery is completely wrecked by thunder too. there is more to this matchup but im nt really in the mood to type more. but if you want an in depth look into the matchup i would be more than willing to go through it.

the entire pika community voted this 50/50 btw. i would say one of the most controversial matchups in brawl.

 

[Fatmanonice]

When you go to tourneys, pinch MK/Snake mains.
Hopefully, this will decrease their numbers.

Or offer double prize money if someone can win with a character that's not in the top 5. Oh man, could you imagine?

 

[gallax]

you could also charge more for using MK, then less for snake, then less for DDD/marth/g&w/falco etc... that would be kool too. lol.

 

[Fatmanonice]

you could also charge more for using MK, then less for snake, then less for DDD/marth/g&w/falco etc... that would be kool too. lol.

Yeah, if you win a tournament using Metaknight, you actually have to pay the house what the jackpot was as a form of aplogy.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Make MK Players pay half more than normal(for example a 10$ fee would be a 15$ for MK players)

 

[Veril]

Metaknight won't be banned. He and Snake will just make competitive smash have much less variety. Boring...

 

[Ripple]

Meta won't be banned because DK still counters him, along with other reasons, but they've been listed

 

[PassWurD]

Make MK Players pay half more than normal(for example a 10$ fee would be a 15$ for MK players)

They'll just end up winning MORE money... >_>

 

[Fatmanonice]

They'll just end up winning MORE money... >_>

Unless... it becomes mandatory that they have to buy the runner up dinner!

 

[Grunt]

I'd throw the finals just to get Dinner.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'd throw the finals just to get Dinner.

Wait, scratch that. He'd have to buy dinner for everyone who made it to the semi-finals.

 

[Grunt]

Wait, scratch that. He'd have to buy dinner for everyone who made it to the semi-finals.

Lol, now I don't even have to do that good.
AWESOME
where can i get me some of this dinner tournaments?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm sure the idea will be extremelly well accepted in the Smash Back Room so I imagine in about a week. There will also be a new rule issued called the "Irish Pub" rule. Along with having to buy the semi-finalists dinner, the Metaknight player will also have to go on a beer run for all the participants.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Someone stated a thought I had a while ago while I was busy doing nothing in class. But I'm still going to say it.

Sheik dominated Melee a ****ton more than MK in my opinion, in that she doesn't have any really bad match ups, and she completely destroys the lower characters. Most of MK's matchups are even or 6/4. How that makes even kinda close to warranting a ban is unbelievable, and the idea that anyone can call him overpowered next how next big characters in Melee dominated is nuts.

BTW, I really, really want a decrease of 08'ers claiming he kills the diversity, which is what makes Brawl 'boring'. There's about as much diversity in Brawl as there was in Melee. :/

Melee-Fox, Marth, Peach, Sheiks some Falco's and Falcons.

Brawl-MK, Snake, DDD, G&W are big winnars, and prolly Wario and Marth. Obviously there are a lot more 'viable characters' like Diddy, etc. but the dominating forces are around 4 characters.

So Brawl does kinda have more viable characters, but that's more/less due to the size. And by viable, I mean they stand a chance, but dont utterly ****. I'd argue Kirby is 'viable' but has some annoying match ups that keep him from being huge in tourneys.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Someone stated a thought I had a while ago while I was busy doing nothing in class. But I'm still going to say it.

Sheik dominated Melee a ****ton more than MK in my opinion, in that she doesn't have any really bad match ups, and she completely destroys the lower characters. Most of MK's matchups are even or 6/4. How that makes even kinda close to warranting a ban is unbelievable, and the idea that anyone can call him overpowered next how next big characters in Melee dominated is nuts.

BTW, I really, really want a decrease of 08'ers claiming he kills the diversity, which is what makes Brawl 'boring'. There's about as much diversity in Brawl as there was in Melee. :/

Melee-Fox, Marth, Peach, Sheiks some Falco's and Falcons.

Brawl-MK, Snake, DDD, G&W are big winnars, and prolly Wario and Marth. Obviously there are a lot more 'viable characters' like Diddy, etc. but the dominating forces are around 4 characters.

So Brawl does kinda have more viable characters, but that's more/less due to the size. And by viable, I mean they stand a chance, but dont utterly ****. I'd argue Kirby is 'viable' but has some annoying match ups that keep him from being huge in tourneys.

Why are you just saying '08ers?

Granted, those who've been here longer with that argument are saying that the metagame has to be mature in order to make that judgment, but it's not just them.

Remember, Sirlin considers that the criteria (ultimately, "broken beyond belief" is a character diversity thing according to play to win).

Regardless the point is that MK makes character unviable independantly, the raw number of characters that are viable is irrelevant. None of the characters destroyed by Sheik were destroyed by only Sheik among the top tier characters.



Still, metagame must develop more before making this judgment. 10 years would be good, at least 5.

 

[Deathcarter]

Meta Knight won't be banned because any character with a 6:4 matchup on Meta can beat him. The ones that I remember with 6:4 matchups at least against Meta are:

DK
Yoshi
Diddy
Snake
Falco
Zero Suit Samus
Pikachu
Marth
Mr.G&W
R.O.B
King Dedede
Wario
Kirby
Toon Link (?)
Meta Knight

All of those characters can compete against Meta Knight and some of them have LARGE learning curves so more of them could appear in tournies later on.

And hypothetically speaking, even in the event where Meta Knight was too powerful, you could just ban his B-moves. That could chop him down to size somewhat.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Why isn't this thread locked yet?

I thought the purpose of this thread was to prevent locking a bunch of little silly threads and usher them all to this one big silly thread.

We have a winner.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i say one more year should give us enough info to make a judgement on this

 

[Grunt]

Big silly Thread.
lol.

 

[Deathcarter]

Actually, I don't see why we cannot ban his B-moves in the control setup. He has 5 jumps and a glide so recovery should not be a problem (Pit is a testament to this). His down-B and his neutral B are beyond broken. He would probably be high tier without the use of his B moves.

This idea should not be scoffed at because we are in a sense balancing a character using just the means afforded to us by Sakurai himself found within the game (and you can set a controler configuration without specials, I checked).

Besides, if the Street Fighter Super Turbo community had a toggable setting in the game which could have locked Akuma's most broken moves and balance his damage output while keeping the others the same, would he have been banned?

 

[Vulcan55]

There's about as much diversity in Brawl as there was in Melee. :/

Melee-Fox, Marth, Peach, Sheiks some Falco's and Falcons.

Samus, ICs, and Jiggz.
That's 9.

Brawl-MK, Snake, DDD, G&W are big winnars, and prolly Wario and Marth. Obviously there are a lot more 'viable characters' like Diddy, etc. but the dominating forces are around 4 characters.

Lets say that's 7.

Melee: 9 out of a total of 26.
9/26 = 34.6%

Brawl: 7 out of a total of 37.
7/37 = 18.9%

Melee has more diversity even without Samus, ICs and Jiggz. (about 26%)
I don't want to start Melee vs Brawl, and I don't think MK should be banned, I am simply pointing out people errors in thinking that Brawl is just as diverse as Melee.

ALSO:

Besides, if the Street Fighter Super Turbo community had a toggable setting in the game which could have locked Akuma's most broken moves and balance his damage output while keeping the others the same, would he have been banned?

If you've ever played ST, you would know that Akuma does not do any more damage then Ken or Ryu.
Not trying to start any kind of flamewar, just pointing out some people's common errors.

 

[Deathcarter]

If you've ever played ST, you would know that Akuma does not do any more damage then Ken or Ryu.
Not trying to start any kind of flamewar, just pointing out some people's common errors.

Thank you for correcting me. I never played the game competetively even though it is fun. But what are you thoughts on my opinion?

 

[Grunt]

Only Boss Akuma does Super Damage.
ALSO:
Whorenado isn't beyond br0ken, you can angle your shield to prevent it from stabbing.
Also, IDC is banned, so His DownB sucks now.

 

[Vulcan55]

I think it's rather pointless.
First, how do you define what is "broken" and what is not?
Second, if you did come to some sort of conclusion, you would have to go through the hassle of changing it everytime.
Third, If you get rid of the moves that make Akuma, Akuma, what you've got is a very bad version of Ken that most likely, no one would play.

 

[Deathcarter]

Only Boss Akuma does Super Damage.
ALSO:
Whorenado isn't beyond br0ken, you can angle your shield to prevent it from stabbing.
Also, IDC is banned, so His DownB sucks now.

The tornado is an effective and almost unpunishable approach. The move does freakish damage and it can easily shield stab if your shield is small. Plus, shield does not matter if you are in the air.

But Shuttle Loop is a VERY big problem. A skilled Meta Knight can abuse it and cancel it into another attack thanks to glide attack cancel. It is a VERY effective edgeguarding tool; honestly, I see most characters get killed by this more than other moves. It has high knockback, very quick for a high knockback move, makes him impossible to edgeguard, gives him another glide, has retarted range, and is virtually unpunishable. Plus he can recover without it easily enough.

Honestly, banning Meta Knight would be dumb, but locking his special moves would make a lot of matchups against him more managable and maybe even even. It is simply balancing him with the other high tiers without hacking the game.

I think it's rather pointless.
First, how do you define what is "broken" and what is not?
Second, if you did come to some sort of conclusion, you would have to go through the hassle of changing it everytime.

The moves themselves might not be terribly broken, but those moves in Meta Knight's hands equals trouble. Frankly, it is a small way to balance him especially considering he is not terribly nerfed by the absense of those moves.

And if we used that logic in your second point, there would be no point in changing the rule set or stage legality list.

 

[Grunt]

you're completely misusing the word br0ken.If the metagame deteriorates to just whorenade spam, because it's that good, then it's br0ken.
Also, SL isn't completely invulnerable, you can hit him out of it.