But the thing is Sonic's disadvantage against Wario isn't as detrimental based on the number of Wario's you'll play. Wario has a few bad matchups of his own so you won't see an overwhelming number of Warios leaving Sonic still viable as a tournament character. With MK its different. Partially because of MKs few (if any) disadvantageous matchups you're going to see alot of them at any tournament. So if you play a character that is weak against him you are going to run into him no matter what, and several times.
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The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
Koopa64
Smash Rookie
Doesn't Fox own Sonic as well. I mean, I've might've just played a couple bad Sonics, tho.
Anyway, hey whassup, Smash Boards. To get back on topic, yeah, it's too early to ban MK. I mean sure, his priority is great, he has a Decent hit box range, he attacks as fast as Sonic can run, and the tornado is spammable as hell (although good players WON'T NOOB spam it), but...well...actually I'm surprised this mofo HASN'T been banned yet. Even tho he is my first main, lol, jk.
But yeah, MK isn't unbeatable (even tho his advanatages over the 34 other chars is almost god-like). I've only GLANCED over the character matchup charts, but I think another good or better MK, Pit (equally "broken" as ppl say), Snake (of course), and possibly (again IDK) a fairly good TL.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Eh, not really. It's a disadvantage yes, but not even in the same ball park as Metaknight and Luigi.
That one is actually harder than Snake IMO, but in case you haven't noticed, there aren't a lot of Wario players in the average tournament.
A very slight advantage. Basically, Sonic's only **** matchups are Metaknight, Luigi, and to a lesser extent Wario (stupid bite). But with Luigi and Wario being such uncommon characters, with various popular **** matchups (DDD), Metaknight is really the one holding him back.
gallax
Smash Hero
dont forget about the chu. ive played really good sonics and i can beat them consistently. the electric moves are....well electrifying.
Empy
Smash Ace
Pit isn't broken, he isn't even that good. And he certainly isn't on equal footing with Metaknight.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
*sees that Yuna hasn't checked back so decides to move on*
I disagree. The slopes on both sides of the screen works so well in his favor. Dthrow into another dthrow into a fair is way too easy to pull off on slopes for him and it's fairly easy for him to keep people "stuck" on the edges because of the natural of his aerials. You want to come back? Ha ha, here's a fair/nair/uair/bair to the face! What? You're honestly trying to get past me again? Have another! Of course, it's possible to get around but it's very easy to imagine that an aggresive Metaknight would definately have the upper hand on this stage.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
I've never had any problems with Pikachu. Against Pikachu I just play really campy. You stay just outside his f-tilt range and wait for him to do something.
I never said that Sonic would be winning tournaments all of a sudden with Metaknight gone, but he'd certainly do a lot better if he didn't have to face a hard counter several times at every tournament he goes to.
Your post got lost in the spam. If you feel like there was important stuff in there I should see, link me to it.
Or not. Those who have no idea how Competitive gaming in general and Competitive Smash in particular should not talk about such matters.
gallax
Smash Hero
you shouldnt really be talking about competitive gaming like that. you arent the only one who goes to tournaments or knows about competitive gaming. you know nothing about me and this comment just shows how ignorant you really are. that and how egotistical you can be.
maybe next time you should think about what you are gonna say before you post it cuz everytime you do post it reeks of your idiocracy.
Since when does simply going to tournaments mean anything when it comes to knowing about how they work behind the scenes? The things you said in the post I quoted was totally off. It showed alarming lack of insight into Competitive gaming in general and Competitive Smash as well. I don't care if you've been to tournaments or think you know how Competitive gaming works, if you think that's how Competitive gaming works, then you obviously have much to learn.
The ignorance obviously lies with you. And people really need to stop misusing the word "egotistical". Also, "idiocracy", not a word.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Yuna I do find your posts show that you are a little bit of an egomaniac sometimes. Or at least, you think you are always right.
Obviously, the fact that this is the internet will forgive my bluntness.
Obviously, the fact that this is the internet will forgive my bluntness.
PassWurD
Smash Journeyman
Yuna is god. ^w^
Of course I always think I'm right. I wouldn't jump into a discussion and post something in a debate without thinking I'm right. If I'm not sure, then I'll add "I think" or "IIRC" or something like that.
If not, I'll just state it as if I believe fully in myself. Why? Because I believe in knowing the facts before discussing them. I would never randomly say something without absolute faith in that I'm right. And most of the time, at the end of the day, no one is able to refute me.
Some might be able to dent my arguments, but in most cases, I stand "victorious" at the end. If I am proven wrong, then I conceede.
But it would be stupid to participate in as many debates as I do without absolute faith in your own statements. Why be a part of important and deep discussions if you're not even sure of it what you're yourself saying is correct?
gallax
Smash Hero
lol. you are such an idiot. i have helped run tournaments. i have been to tournaments. i have been playing competitively since before you could even suck on your mothers t*t. i know what competitive play is. you telling me i don't know what competitive gaming is proves you are an idiot. you assume way too much.
Well, he usually is.
Koopa64
Smash Rookie
Agreed. I just noticed, why is this 66 pages? I'd expect, maybe about 8 or so honestly.
gallax
Smash Hero
you're obviously in love with yuna. you have a quote by him in your sig and you brown-nose. someone obviously wants attention.
This is what you said:
"even if in 3 years 1000 smash tournaments are held in one year and MK won 999 out of those, this community would still not ban MK. the excuse that he didnt win that one tournament would be enough to not ban him. that or everyone has switched over to MK and doesnt know how to play with anyone else and they say dont ban cuz then they wont be winning anymore."
You obviously know very little about what goes on behind the scene in Competitive gaming. No, I don't mean what happens when people host tournaments. I mean what happens when rules are decides and things are banned.
You haven't even been reading the thread (or Sirlin's How To Win) because we've mentioned Akuma, what, a jillion times now? Boast about your prowess how much you want, that post you made made it clear how "much" you really know.
PassWurD
Smash Journeyman
Try not to get too jealous nao..
These arguments never end.
They're cyclical, unless both sides have the rare ability to romanticize with the idea that they may be wrong.
Have you been on Smashboards at all during the past 6 months? Anything that generates any kind of discussion usually goes on for at least 12 pages. Anything that's "controversial" can go on for 100+ pages. I think my "Brawl more balanced than Melee, truth or lie?"-thread went on for 150+ or 350+ pages before it was ultimately locked.
gallax
Smash Hero
hahaha. i cant believe you took that seriously. akuma was banned because the finals matches always consisted of dittos and he was so overly powered and used that it would have been stupid not to ban him. even though it was an unwritten ban.
smash is way too new to ban anyone. that being said, my comment was directed to how stupid the sbr has become over the past year and how personal bias is becoming more and more prevalent in their decisions. i remember back in melee when i actually agreed with most(if not all of their decisions).
smash is way too new to ban anyone. that being said, my comment was directed to how stupid the sbr has become over the past year and how personal bias is becoming more and more prevalent in their decisions. i remember back in melee when i actually agreed with most(if not all of their decisions).
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Your first point is entirely true, but this is based on the info we have at the time, we can't assume that tomarrow everything will change, we can only acknowledge that it can.
Your second point I already dealt with, MK's presence puts his neutrals in better positions then he's in the win, therefore MK being there has the secondary result of decreasing his win ratio considerably. The example of MK's presence pushing Snake to top in tournament results is quite apt here. It took forever to discover Snake's bad match-ups because MK was killing them all off and MK players hadn't figured out how to deal with Snake yet, so Snake players won the vast majority of the time.
The same effect is happening to a lesser extent with the sacred 7 except Marth, MK is killing all their bad match-ups off. In that enviroment, having more hard-counters is more useful then having no bad match-ups.
So based off of the gist of these arguments, it seems the fairest consensus here is that he shouldn't be banned as of now because the skill range of people using him is too broad and also because no one should be pandering to broken character paranoia, but -if- he proves in the future to be more of a burden to competitiveness to the point a lot of tournaments become mirror match ups using MK then it's not an impossibility either. Is that reasonable?
Koopa64
Smash Rookie
Besides just browsing around Smashboards in the past 6 months? No, so I didn't know.
But is it really THAT "controversial?" Are MK's matchups any WORSE than Fox's matchups in Melee?
gallax
Smash Hero
its useless arguing with yuna. he is just gonna have one of his buddies give you an infraction. its completely pointless. he wont listen. no matter how knowledgeable you really are.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
What does IIRC stand for?
Ok I have to ask this again. Who are these Snake counters that MK shut down? People keep telling me about this but I still don't know who they are. The only *possible* Snake counters I could think of is Dedede (who is still prevalent in tourneys) ROB (who has a hard time with MK but is still somewhat represented) and DK (who is considered one of the better MK matchups). So can someone please let me know about these counters?
gallax
Smash Hero
pika can counter snake. but it really is dependent on the players.
I'll have you know I've on many occasions directly argued against many of the mods here on Smashboards and am in no way a "buddy" with any of the mods. You called me an idiot. That's called flaming and goes against the ToS.
If I call someone an idiot, I get an infraction for it. The rules are there. Learn them, follow them.
If I Recall Correctly.
Oh, didn't you know that Lucario hard counters Snake? He's got a chaingrab, can "combo" pretty well and Snake is easily comboed into Aura Sphere!
1) How does Pika counter Snake?
2) In discussions like these, we assume the players in question are playing on the highest possible level. On the highest possible level of Smash, does Pikachu counter Snake?
Ice Climbers P and N
Smash Lord
I actually think it's a good idea to ban him. x]
MarKO X
Smash Champion
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Maybe, but you said that if MK wins 999 out of 1000 tournaments he won't get banned... is that not the same as the Finals ending up in Akuma dittos where an Akuma has a 100% chance of winning the finals? Does that not prove that there's something highly unreasonably broken about MK? Here's the thing, MK got something along the lines of 25-35 wins in the Character Ranks thread. (I don't know the number for sure, but it's around there). However, Snake, Marth, and plenty of other character have enough wins to show that MK might just be hi tier, not broken tier. If MK were to win the next 333 tournaments, then MK would obviously have to be banned. Saying that 999 out of 1000 MK tourney wins won't ban him is just really effin ridiculous.
And yeah, explain to the world how Pikachu counters Snake.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I was thinking the same and also i noticed that
Final Destination. This means if you choose someone like Falco or Snake you can zone him and avoid getting ***** up close. Least from my experience
fallenangemon0
Smash Journeyman
I thought that MK does bad against Peach! But only about 60:40 in Peaches favor.
Her turnips outprioritize the Whorenado and his shuttle loop, ( but only sometimes
I cant figure out what makes them hit past it. Could be the Face/where it hits MK/etc.) Fsmash ***** him, and she can space well with her juicy glide toss.
Her turnips outprioritize the Whorenado and his shuttle loop, ( but only sometimes
I cant figure out what makes them hit past it. Could be the Face/where it hits MK/etc.) Fsmash ***** him, and she can space well with her juicy glide toss.- Status