The Jiggz Match-Up Thread

[Noobicidal]

I'm gonna say, stop being a pessimist and back off.

Or he could just be pessimistic effectively. I said the exact same message a few posts before him, and I got off scot-free.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I'm going to bed. For all intents and purposes, consider the discussion now on Robotic Operating Bad*** and Rollycario.

I'll edit the OP tomorrow when I get back from sushi.

fixed

lol i hate them both. ROB never dies and lucario....no one likes fighting lucarios....except Zhamy....

 

[Metatitan]

ROB at least for me has been somewhat manageable, but I would like to play Hugs first before any judgment. All I know is that his Fair *****.

 

[Cold Fusion]

Discussion is closing tonight. Discuss ratios.

The OP hasn't been edited.

 

[Le_THieN]

Just to throw you guys a bone out of good will, I don't think the Jiggly/Diddy match-up is in Jiggly's favor by any stretch of the imagination. I don't even think it's even. I feel that the favor is firmly in Diddy's column, although I'm hesitant to throw out a concrete mathematical ratio for the sake of it.

 

[Metatitan]

Just to throw you guys a bone out of good will, I don't think the Jiggly/Diddy match-up is in Jiggly's favor by any stretch of the imagination. I don't even think it's even. I feel that the favor is firmly in Diddy's column, although I'm hesitant to throw out a concrete mathematical ratio for the sake of it.

I think it's in diddy's favor as well, but according to Thinkaman, I'm not allowed to have an opinion

 

[Le_THieN]

I think it's in diddy's favor as well, but according to Thinkaman, I'm not allowed to have an opinion

At this point, there are perfectly valid arguments justifying either side simply due to the fact that this match-up is still somewhat rare and largely unexplored - even one year into the game. However, the more and more I acclimate myself to these uncommon match-ups, the more I believe that there are no left-field hard counters against Diddy Kong amongst the low tier cast.

There was a point shortly after last summer ended where I thought characters like Yoshi or PT could have gone even or possibly even have the advantage against Diddy. I've received extensive sparring practice against both thanks to Bwett and Chuck Nasty respectively, and I have since learned safe and proper ways to critically exploit cool-down on both characters in such a way that it neutralizes many of their approach options.

Similarly, there is a player in my crew who entertained the idea of using Jigglypuff against me as a counter for two or three months after I figured out ways around the MK, ROB and Olimar match-ups. I'm fairly certain I have seen everything Jiggz can do, as well as her gimmicky baiting tricks that involve her SDIing any of Diddy's multi-hit attacks and then interrupting with Rest, and have since figured out safe ways to use said attacks without the risk of instant death punishment.

And the best part of all? - Diddy doesn't even need banana peels to throttle Jigglypuff in this match-up. Virtually every attack in Diddy Kong's move set is superior to Jigglypuff's in every way imaginable. It just takes a couple of minor adjustments in the typical Diddy Kong rush-down game, and you can essentially get by with baiting and stuffing Jiggz' aerial approaches all day long.

Once you get over the shock value of being blindsided by random Rests and being WOPed off-stage by Jigglypuff's B-airs due to your own bad DI, there really isn't much left for Jiggz to contend with.

 

[Metatitan]

At this point, there are perfectly valid arguments justifying either side simply due to the fact that this match-up is still somewhat rare and largely unexplored - even one year into the game. However, the more and more I acclimate myself to these uncommon match-ups, the more I believe that there are no left-field hard counters against Diddy Kong amongst the low tier cast.

There was a point shortly after last summer ended where I thought characters like Yoshi or PT could have gone even or possibly even have the advantage against Diddy. I've received extensive sparring practice against both thanks to Bwett and Chuck Nasty respectively, and I have since learned safe and proper ways to critically exploit cool-down on both characters in such a way that it neutralizes many of their approach options.

Similarly, there is a player in my crew who entertained the idea of using Jigglypuff against me as a counter for two or three months after I figured out ways around the MK, ROB and Olimar match-ups. I'm fairly certain I have seen everything Jiggz can do, as well as her gimmicky baiting tricks that involve her SDIing any of Diddy's multi-hit attacks and then interrupting with Rest, and have since figured out safe ways to use said attacks without the risk of instant death punishment.

And the best part of all? - Diddy doesn't even need banana peels to throttle Jigglypuff in this match-up. Virtually every attack in Diddy Kong's move set is superior to Jigglypuff's in every way imaginable. It just takes a couple of minor adjustments in the typical Diddy Kong rush-down game, and you can essentially get by with baiting and stuffing Jiggz' aerial approaches all day long.

Once you get over the shock value of being blindsided by random Rests and being WOPed off-stage by Jigglypuff's B-airs due to your own bad DI, there really isn't much left for Jiggz to contend with.

**** nice summary. The point of the matter is that unless jigglypuff is fastfalling her shorthops (in which your bananas will shut her down), she really isn't fast enough to deal with diddy. You pretty much nailed the matchup right there IMO

 

[DFEAR]

help the diddy boards by posting in this thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238749

=D ty puffs :3 ur all sooooo cuuuuuuteeee lol.

 

[Thinkaman]

I think it's in diddy's favor as well, but according to Thinkaman, I'm not allowed to have an opinion

Dang it, did I miss my own self coronation? Was there shrimp? I'm gonna be ticked off if I declared myself King of the Jigglypuff Cesspool when I wasn't looking, and there was free shrimp I missed out on. The next time I appoint myself unquestionable ruler of something, remind me to remind myself when it happens so I can attend.

 

[illinialex24]

Dang it, did I miss my own self coronation? Was there shrimp? I'm gonna be ticked off if I declared myself King of the Jigglypuff Cesspool when I wasn't looking, and there was free shrimp I missed out on. The next time I appoint myself unquestionable ruler of something, remind me to remind myself when it happens so I can attend.

Oh god I missed your sarcasm. And there is no way Diddy Jiggs is in favor of Diddy. I've talked to so many people about that matchup and played it a few times, she just doesn't go on the ground in this matchup very often and she can do very well. And in case if your wondering, the people I've talked to do include Ninjalink, many Diddy's and more. I've heard anywhere from 70-30 to 55-45 Jigglypuff from most Diddy's, often 55-45 is the Diddy perspective, and anywhere from 65-35 to 60-40 for most Jigglypuff's. Trust me, you look at each characters tools for the job and it is Jigglypuff's favor, she can force an air game and she will win it more often.

 

[SuSa]

Pound. It goes through Diddy's moves. I especially like down-angeled pounds that end just as I touch the ground so I can jump again immediatly... <_<

Also Jiggs is able to gimp Diddy kong WHENEVER he needs to up-b, and his recovery doesn't allow him to avoid Jiggz wall of pain to easily off stage.

This is one of my more favorite matchups to go against Diddy.

I also enjoy going Marth (don't anymore, Dao wrecked me..) because of the glide toss > tipped fsmash (which I got on Dao <3 but he still made me hate the matchup... lmao my Marth sucks)

I also semi-enjoy going Snake, but only on neutrals (and not on Battlefield)

But rawr... jiggz... pound... sex.

 

[illinialex24]

pound... sex.

Never though you'd be advocating violent sex.

 

[Metatitan]

Guys you have to realize that pound isn't that good of a move. Let's take an evaluation of the attack.

Positives:
1. High priority
2. Lasting hitbox
3. Helps with recovery
4. Great punisher

Negatives:
1. Very predictable by many jigglypuff users
2. Long duration
3. Easily punished by any OoS option

While it may look as if the positives outweigh the negatives, they don't. Pound will never win any matchup for you because it is so easily punished. High priority =/= instant win which is what you guys are making it out to be. Pound will not work forever. A good opponent will easily find a way around it. And from what I've seen, aside from pound diddy pretty much thrashes us. Our two advantages are pound's priority and always being in the air. And frankly, that's not enough to win any matchup. 40:60 diddy

 

[SuSa]

You need to learn how to space Pound and angle it correctly to avoid OoS options from chars with poor reach....

I can beat Bam's Snake with my Jiggly (and my Snake) but his Snake beats most, if not all of my other characters.

That being said, I spam Pound on him. OoS bair is all that I am really worried about, but he can't punish my pound in nearly any way..and unless I messed up by spacing OoS bair doesn't do squat.

 

[illinialex24]

Remember Thinkaman's law.

 

[Thinkaman]

Honestly I only pound Diddy when he is on the ground trying to shieldgrab my bairs. In the air bair spacing seems to work pretty good, although Diddy is no real slouch with his fair. (It's not a trivial air-duel, just one heavily in Jigg's favor.)

EDIT: Today's FUN FACTS:

Pound's hitbox stays out 17 frames!

Most spotdodges are invulnerable for 19 frames!

Most humans cannot perform a task with 1 frame margin of error given only 10 frames notice!

 

[Metatitan]

Honestly I only pound Diddy when he is on the ground trying to shieldgrab my bairs. In the air bair spacing seems to work pretty good, although Diddy is no real slouch with his fair. (It's not a trivial air-duel, just one heavily in Jigg's favor.)

EDIT: Today's FUN FACTS:

Pound's hitbox stays out 17 frames!

Most spotdodges are invulnerable for 19 frames!

Most humans cannot perform a task with 1 frame margin of error given only 10 frames notice!

I've heard of this crazy thing called OoS aerials. I heard they **** pound.

 

[SuSa]

Honestly I only pound Diddy when he is on the ground trying to shieldgrab my bairs. In the air bair spacing seems to work pretty good, although Diddy is no real slouch with his fair. (It's not a trivial air-duel, just one heavily in Jigg's favor.)

EDIT: Today's FUN FACTS:

Pound's hitbox stays out 17 frames!

Most spotdodges are invulnerable for 19 frames!

Most humans cannot perform a task with 1 frame margin of error given only 10 frames notice!

This. Nair also works in the air if you aren't in front of him.

Fun fact is also great.

I've heard of this crazy thing called OoS aerials. I heard they **** pound.

I heard they need to be like Marth's Fair to actually hit a properly spaced, retreating Pound. But you know...

 

[Thinkaman]

Who intentionally pounds a full shield? Just float around in the air and do hit-and-run bairs and dairs if they are being too conservative.

I also like pretending to land to grab, but actually landing nair.

 

[Jigglymaster]

LOL Thinkamen you've got that Diddy topic host over at there discussing to acutally believe that you think its a 75:25 matchup in diddy's favor.

 

[Le_THieN]

Oh god I missed your sarcasm. And there is no way Diddy Jiggs is in favor of Diddy. I've talked to so many people about that matchup and played it a few times, she just doesn't go on the ground in this matchup very often and she can do very well. And in case if your wondering, the people I've talked to do include Ninjalink, many Diddy's and more.

LOL. NinjaLink and I speak pretty regularly, and I can assure you he does not feel this way.

Pound. It goes through Diddy's moves. I especially like down-angeled pounds that end just as I touch the ground so I can jump again immediatly... <_<

Also Jiggs is able to gimp Diddy kong WHENEVER he needs to up-b, and his recovery doesn't allow him to avoid Jiggz wall of pain to easily off stage.

This needs to be explored more, but I have seen Monkey Kick and Pound tear through each other priority-wise on multiple occasions. Both are very similar attacks in nature - fast and mobile high-priority attacks with lingering hit-boxes - and it would appear that the attack that comes out a split-second after the first one is activated usually wins. Even at that, I would still personally wager that Monkey Kick is the slightly better and more useful of the two, due to its high degree of horizontal aerial mobility. Also, you are not always required to be completely precise with your spacing for it to connect as a kick from longer ranges or as a Monkey Hump from shorter ones.

Additionally, after getting over the initial panic that I was stricken with when I was B-aired off the stage five times in a row the first few times I dealt with this match-up, I have figured out easy ways around it. It's quite easy to see Jiggz set up for this tactic once she starts approaching with B-air after cornering you close to the edge of the stage. Diddy can simply establish control from the center of the stage to avoid the scenario completely, or, once he is caught in the Wall of Pain, Diddy can SDI up and away from B-air and Monkey Flip overhead to escape. Another simplified twist to this is to simply SDI away, draw out the second or third B-air, and retaliate with my own F-air or Monkey Hump. Sometimes, I even feel that simply spamming F-air in-between Jigglypuff's B-airs is almost golden for the simple fact that chained B-airs are not guaranteed.

As an aside, I feel that Jigglypuff's air game is only golden if she manages to keep Diddy grounded. Consider this, though: if Diddy Kong is able to match or supersede Jigglypuff pound for pound with his own aerials, what happens when he adjusts his game and takes to the air as well? From what I have concluded in my own experiences, her ability to pressure effectively is diminished if Diddy is challenging her in the air as much as she is. The way I see it, Jigglypuff's game revolves around having a constant control of air space, which also entails that she will be forced to approach the majority of the time due to Diddy's ability to apply mid-to-long range pressure.

This also neatly brings me to my point that Diddy Kong can play a safer and more effective defensive game than Jigglypuff, thanks mainly to his projectiles. Many times, the key lies in not connecting and actually dealing damage (that is just a nice little bonus), but to force and anticipate a predictable approach.

If Diddy's counter-stratagem is to simply force the approach, bait attacks with aerial banana peel traps (which I don't think many of you seem familiar with based on your dated notions of what you still believe Diddy's meta-game to revolve around), punish accordingly with measured defense, and still have a superior ground game to fall back on once Jigglypuff is grounded and tripped, then I think Jiggly is as good as beat.

Due to the fact that this is still largely an unexplored match-up with the general public at large, I am willing to compromise that this match-up on Jigglypuff's side is, at best, even.

 

[illinialex24]

LOL. NinjaLink and I speak pretty regularly, and I can assure you he does not feel this way.

I have talked to him and last time I talked, he specifically said 55-45 Jigglypuff.

[Quote[This needs to be explored more, but I have seen Monkey Kick and Pound tear through each other priority-wise on multiple occasions. Both are very similar attacks in nature - fast and mobile high-priority attacks with lingering hit-boxes - and it would appear that the attack that comes out a split-second after the first one is activated usually wins. Even at that, I would still personally wager that Monkey Kick is the slightly better and more useful of the two, due to its high degree of horizontal aerial mobility. Also, you are not always required to be completely precise with your spacing for it to connect as a kick from longer ranges or as a Monkey Hump from shorter ones.[/quote]

There is such a thing as a rising pound ban in melee for a reason, pound has a huge horizontal acceleration in the beginning, and the first frame that seems to be the attack actually is the first frame before it attacks. And there is a reason why there is no aerial priority, because the first person to get hit wins. IE, you saying the attack that comes later wins would be in the most specific and un-useful circumstances. Pound doesn't have to be amazingly spaced in the air on a Diddy, pound is a hit through move, good spacing helps but bair and nair are our spacing moves.

Additionally, after getting over the initial panic that I was stricken with when I was B-aired off the stage five times in a row the first few times I dealt with this match-up, I have figured out easy ways around it. It's quite easy to see Jiggz set up for this tactic once she starts approaching with B-air after cornering you close to the edge of the stage. Diddy can simply establish control from the center of the stage to avoid the scenario completely, or, once he is caught in the Wall of Pain, Diddy can SDI up and away from B-air and Monkey Flip overhead to escape. Another simplified twist to this is to simply SDI away, draw out the second or third B-air, and retaliate with my own F-air or Monkey Hump. Sometimes, I even feel that simply spamming F-air in-between Jigglypuff's B-airs is almost golden for the simple fact that chained B-airs are not guaranteed.

Who does the same wall of pain over and over again?? Honestly, I often use bair but you throw in a rising dair (which incidentally screws you over pretty bad) and an nair and your put in a better position and it has surprise. And fair is her kill move, get hit with a fresh one off stage and your pretty much dead at 70%.

As an aside, I feel that Jigglypuff's air game is only golden if she manages to keep Diddy grounded. Consider this, though: if Diddy Kong is able to match or supersede Jigglypuff pound for pound with his own aerials, what happens when he adjusts his game and takes to the air as well? From what I have concluded in my own experiences, her ability to pressure effectively is diminished if Diddy is challenging her in the air as much as she is. The way I see it, Jigglypuff's game revolves around having a constant control of air space, which also entails that she will be forced to approach the majority of the time due to Diddy's ability to apply mid-to-long range pressure.

Honestly what are you talking about?? Your saying Jigglypuff has a worse air to air game than Diddy?? She can also float very well to avoid things, and although she will be approaching, she has a good enough aerial game to take control of the air.

This also neatly brings me to my point that Diddy Kong can play a safer and more effective defensive game than Jigglypuff, thanks mainly to his projectiles. Many times, the key lies in not connecting and actually dealing damage (that is just a nice little bonus), but to force and anticipate a predictable approach.

Not really, she can pressure him to leave the ground and get into the air, and she can bait and punish him. Both can play safely, she has 6 jumps for a reason.

If Diddy's counter-stratagem is to simply force the approach, bait attacks with aerial banana peel traps (which I don't think many of you seem familiar with based on your dated notions of what you still believe Diddy's meta-game to revolve around), punish accordingly with measured defense, and still have a superior ground game to fall back on once Jigglypuff is grounded and tripped, then I think Jiggly is as good as beat.

This happens on a good Jigglypuff what, between 1 or 2 times a game maximum? She has 6 jumps for a reason. I don't think you realize that.

Due to the fact that this is still largely an unexplored match-up with the general public at large, I am willing to compromise that this match-up on Jigglypuff's side is, at best, even.

Lmao what?????

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Hey guys ^-^ How are things? Sorry about my absence. Had stupid summer course work to do. What have I missed? Anyways...

Big ol' post

Wow. Not joking, I actually felt like vomiting several times while reading this post. This is just so blatantly wrong it isn't even funny. I read some parts over a couple times to make sure you weren't kidding. I am horrified to conclude that you aren't. Your post contains some of the most incorrect information I've ever seen on this boards.

First of all, shut up. You're embarrassing the Diddy boards by making these wild claims with no backing at all. Have you ever played a good Jigglypuff player? Have you ever played a Jigglypuff player at all? Have you ever seen a jigglypuff play? Have you ever played a Jigglypuff computer in 1P mode? Have you ever even seen jigglypuff on tv? Have you ever even heard of a jigglypuff before?

Diddy's Fair is as good or better than pound? Holly carp, I will not sleep well tonight because you meant that. You actually meant it. Why? I understand your claim as them being a similar move, with the long lasting hitbox, decent power, priority and the like. However... Pound is a special move! Special moves automatically out prioritise normal moves, iirc. The only reason you could ever THINK that your fair is better than pound is would be because you saw the fair come out first. Before the hitbox comes out, which ever move comes out first will win. If both hitboxes were out, pound would win. You can't argue. It isn't subjective. It's FACT. Pound is ranked among the top of all specail moves. It is awesome. It goes through too much. It is WAY more useful than Diddy's fair. If you argue against that, then you are just showing how very little you know.

I was considering not responding to the next part because of how awful of a statement it is. Seriously. I don't really want to talk about it. But, alright, here it goes....
...
...

..........

....


HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY THINK THAT DIDDY HAS A BETTER AIR GAME THAN JIGGLYPUFF!?!?!?!?!?!


Sorry about that everyone. Seriously though, you must be joking. What an extremely biased and uneducated thing to say! WHY? Why, why, why? Diddy has a decent air game, I will admit, but better than Jiggs? Forget about it! Jiggs has the most powerful fair in the game besides lightning kick, has both the second best aerial speed and aerial acceleration out of any character (different people have the best of each; neither of them are Diddy), excellent aerial moves, a special that can basically be used as an aerial which is considered (as said before) to be one of the best specials, uhh...6 JUMPS! Need I go on?

To say that Wario has a better air game than Jigglypuff is a legitimate argument. To say anyone else does is a complete falacy! To say that a Diddy's air game is better is ludicrous!

As more of a side note, I'd also like to add that Jigglypuff CAN use you bananas against you very well. Actually, a lot of people don't seem to realize this, but when Jiggs throws a peel when jumping towards an opponent, she travels so fast that she keeps up with the banana. She doesn't need a glide toss. She has such high speed that that she has basically an aerial equivalent of one. A glide toss is awesome because you can be right beside the opponent when they trip. Jiggs accomplishes this by jumping, exept she's in the air, were all her best moves are.

I'm not saying that Jigglypuff is a better overall character than Diddy (I know that she isn't). I'm not even saying that in a direct fight Jiggs kicks Diddy's ***. (I know that she does). I'm saying that your arguments aren't even flawed, they're just plain wrong. Play a decent Jiggs player before assuming stuff like this. Your posts here are an embarrassment to the Diddy boards.

Ah, it’s good to be back. Hope you guys missed me.

 

[Le_THieN]

LOL. People here aren't very friendly.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

actually i think this is one of the friendlier boards

 

[illinialex24]

actually i think this is one of the friendlier boards

Nah, the pink stands for PMSing

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

LOL. People here aren't very friendly.

That's all you have to say about your posts?

I'm sorry, I'm not usually that harsh to people, and I almost always respect the oppinion of the person I'm arguing against. However, what you put was just so wrong. Just SO wrong, that I felt the need to make that post. I respect your opinion that Jiggs goes at least even with Diddy or worse. It is a legit opinion. Your reasoning behind it is what I have a problem with.

 

[Retlaf]

...

I have to admit, this doesn't sound too convincing as an argument saying this matchup is in Diddy's favor (as a lot of it seems sketchy, situational, and based on playstyle assumptions), but it works as tips for Diddys to read about how to deal with jigglies.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Hey guys ^-^ How are things? Sorry about my absence. Had stupid summer course work to do. What have I missed? Anyways...





Wow. Not joking, I actually felt like vomiting several times while reading this post. This is just so blatantly wrong it isn't even funny. I read some parts over a couple times to make sure you weren't kidding. I am horrified to conclude that you aren't. Your post contains some of the most incorrect information I've ever seen on this boards.

First of all, shut up. You're embarrassing the Diddy boards by making these wild claims with no backing at all. Have you ever played a good Jigglypuff player? Have you ever played a Jigglypuff player at all? Have you ever seen a jigglypuff play? Have you ever played a Jigglypuff computer in 1P mode? Have you ever even seen jigglypuff on tv? Have you ever even heard of a jigglypuff before?

Diddy's Fair is as good or better than pound? Holly carp, I will not sleep well tonight because you meant that. You actually meant it. Why? I understand your claim as them being a similar move, with the long lasting hitbox, decent power, priority and the like. However... Pound is a special move! Special moves automatically out prioritise normal moves, iirc. The only reason you could ever THINK that your fair is better than pound is would be because you saw the fair come out first. Before the hitbox comes out, which ever move comes out first will win. If both hitboxes were out, pound would win. You can't argue. It isn't subjective. It's FACT. Pound is ranked among the top of all specail moves. It is awesome. It goes through too much. It is WAY more useful than Diddy's fair. If you argue against that, then you are just showing how very little you know.

I was considering not responding to the next part because of how awful of a statement it is. Seriously. I don't really want to talk about it. But, alright, here it goes....
...
...

..........

....


HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY THINK THAT DIDDY HAS A BETTER AIR GAME THAN JIGGLYPUFF!?!?!?!?!?!


Sorry about that everyone. Seriously though, you must be joking. What an extremely biased and uneducated thing to say! WHY? Why, why, why? Diddy has a decent air game, I will admit, but better than Jiggs? Forget about it! Jiggs has the most powerful fair in the game besides lightning kick, has both the second best aerial speed and aerial acceleration out of any character (different people have the best of each; neither of them are Diddy), excellent aerial moves, a special that can basically be used as an aerial which is considered (as said before) to be one of the best specials, uhh...6 JUMPS! Need I go on?

To say that Wario has a better air game than Jigglypuff is a legitimate argument. To say anyone else does is a complete falacy! To say that a Diddy's air game is better is ludicrous!

As more of a side note, I'd also like to add that Jigglypuff CAN use you bananas against you very well. Actually, a lot of people don't seem to realize this, but when Jiggs throws a peel when jumping towards an opponent, she travels so fast that she keeps up with the banana. She doesn't need a glide toss. She has such high speed that that she has basically an aerial equivalent of one. A glide toss is awesome because you can be right beside the opponent when they trip. Jiggs accomplishes this by jumping, exept she's in the air, were all her best moves are.

I'm not saying that Jigglypuff is a better overall character than Diddy (I know that she isn't). I'm not even saying that in a direct fight Jiggs kicks Diddy's ***. (I know that she does). I'm saying that your arguments aren't even flawed, they're just plain wrong. Play a decent Jiggs player before assuming stuff like this. Your posts here are an embarrassment to the Diddy boards.

Ah, it’s good to be back. Hope you guys missed me.

Good **** Jiggernaut

Mad Props for that.

 

[SuSa]

To say that Wario has a better air game than Jigglypuff is a legitimate argument. To say anyone else does is a complete falacy! .

You got a little carried away (while I agree with like 99% of your argument)

In a Jiggz vs them air game (however not neccessarily 'overall'):

Marth
G&W
MK (debatable)
few others I can't list but I'm sure Alex could.


However, again, I completely agree with you on most everything else.
Pound is sex.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I have to admit, this doesn't sound too convincing as an argument saying this matchup is in Diddy's favor (as a lot of it seems sketchy, situational, and based on playstyle assumptions), but it works as tips for Diddys to read about how to deal with jigglies.

Oh, hey, man. How's it going?

Good **** Jiggernaut

Mad Props for that.

thanks, man.

You got a little carried away (while I agree with like 99% of your argument)

In a Jiggz vs them air game (however not neccessarily 'overall'):

Marth
G&W
MK (debatable)
few others I can't list but I'm sure Alex could.


However, again, I completely agree with you on most everything else.
Pound is sex.

Lol, of course I got carried away. :D

However, I don't take back the comment you highlighted. I was not saying that no one can beat Jiggs in the air. I was talking about characters having a better overall air game. However, Le_THieN specifically claimed that Diddy had a better overall air game than Jiggs did aaaaand that made me sad. ; . ;

I know that other characters can hold their own in the air during specific matchups, and I'll even add a few to your list.

Luigi
Pikachu
Lucario (who we SHOULD be discussing now...)

 

[SuSa]

I forgot about teh Weegee (no one remembers him) and Lucario. <_< stupid Aura....

Pikachu? Maybe fair, but if you approach from behind you are safer.... then again, when can you approach from behind? lol


Anyyywayyyss.... not important.

 

[Thinkaman]

Add Ness to the list of MAYYYYYYBES.

 

[SuSa]

Fair -_- forgot about that disjointed as hell move....

 

[Teh Future]

Ness's arials are imo the best in the game. Every move is almost unpunishable if used right.

Thinkaman I want to play Diddy vs Jiggs next time your in stl.

 

[illinialex24]

Ness's arials are imo the best in the game. Every move is almost unpunishable if used right.

Thinkaman I want to play Diddy vs Jiggs next time your in stl.

What are you talking about...... There's a reason Ness Marth is considered ****........ Same with G&W Ness.

 

[pastaboy]

pndmike is a cool guy,
id say its even, with diddy i just make sure i always keep moving and rely on getting damage mostly from fairs, monkey kick, dtilt and bananas. i find it hard to get the fsmash off for some reason .

 

[AvaricePanda]

Hey guys ^-^ How are things? Sorry about my absence. Had stupid summer course work to do. What have I missed? Anyways...





Wow. Not joking, I actually felt like vomiting several times while reading this post. This is just so blatantly wrong it isn't even funny. I read some parts over a couple times to make sure you weren't kidding. I am horrified to conclude that you aren't. Your post contains some of the most incorrect information I've ever seen on this boards.

First of all, shut up. You're embarrassing the Diddy boards by making these wild claims with no backing at all. Have you ever played a good Jigglypuff player? Have you ever played a Jigglypuff player at all? Have you ever seen a jigglypuff play? Have you ever played a Jigglypuff computer in 1P mode? Have you ever even seen jigglypuff on tv? Have you ever even heard of a jigglypuff before?

Not completely rude or anything.

Diddy's Fair is as good or better than pound? Holly carp, I will not sleep well tonight because you meant that. You actually meant it. Why? I understand your claim as them being a similar move, with the long lasting hitbox, decent power, priority and the like. However... Pound is a special move! Special moves automatically out prioritise normal moves, iirc.

Captain Falcon's down B says hi. Seriously. Special move doesn't auto mean it has better priority.

The only reason you could ever THINK that your fair is better than pound is would be because you saw the fair come out first. Before the hitbox comes out, which ever move comes out first will win. If both hitboxes were out, pound would win. You can't argue. It isn't subjective. It's FACT. Pound is ranked among the top of all specail moves. It is awesome. It goes through too much. It is WAY more useful than Diddy's fair. If you argue against that, then you are just showing how very little you know.

Okay, Pound is more useful overall than Diddy's fair. Great. This doesn't contribute to the matchup at all. Diddy's Fair is a great move in this matchup because it outranges and beats all of your other moves except Pound. That is a very good asset, and I doubt you'll be using Pound all the time, especially when Diddy jumps in the air as the usefulness diminishes.

I was considering not responding to the next part because of how awful of a statement it is. Seriously. I don't really want to talk about it. But, alright, here it goes....
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HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY THINK THAT DIDDY HAS A BETTER AIR GAME THAN JIGGLYPUFF!?!?!?!?!?!

Maybe because he doesn't, and you failed to read his actual post, and he's talking about this specific matchup which is not universal to everything?

Sorry about that everyone. Seriously though, you must be joking. What an extremely biased and uneducated thing to say! WHY? Why, why, why? Diddy has a decent air game, I will admit, but better than Jiggs? Forget about it! Jiggs has the most powerful fair in the game besides lightning kick, has both the second best aerial speed and aerial acceleration out of any character (different people have the best of each; neither of them are Diddy), excellent aerial moves, a special that can basically be used as an aerial which is considered (as said before) to be one of the best specials, uhh...6 JUMPS! Need I go on?

Why does something tell me that Snake's and Ganondorf's fairs are more powerful (albeit hardly as useful).

Also, this is completely ignoring the entire matchup. Le Thien's entire post was about Diddy vs. Jigglypuff and about how Diddy's bananas combined with the nature of Jigglypuff's air game and the aerials Diddy can utilize can match the effectiveness of Jigglypuff's air game.

Let me say it again; Jigglypuff's air game is very controlling of aerial space. Diddy's upthrown bananas can be used to bait airdodges or flat out movements, and when Diddy jumps in the air, it can mess with Jigglypuff's game of trying to force you into the air with rising pound and fair and such. Diddy's on ground options against Jigglypuff's aerials are limited. However. Fair beats all of your aerials and Monkey Flip Kick, depending on where you're hitting Jigglypuff, can beat pound. All of this, plus our bananas, which are still a very viable projectile, can match Jigglypuff's air game IN THIS MATCHUP.

Is what he's saying.

[/quote]

To say that Wario has a better air game than Jigglypuff is a legitimate argument. To say anyone else does is a complete falacy! To say that a Diddy's air game is better is ludicrous!

Again, read better because he never directly said that.

As more of a side note, I'd also like to add that Jigglypuff CAN use you bananas against you very well. Actually, a lot of people don't seem to realize this, but when Jiggs throws a peel when jumping towards an opponent, she travels so fast that she keeps up with the banana. She doesn't need a glide toss. She has such high speed that that she has basically an aerial equivalent of one. A glide toss is awesome because you can be right beside the opponent when they trip. Jiggs accomplishes this by jumping, exept she's in the air, were all her best moves are.

Good point. A lot of different possible situations come up when Jigglypuff's hitting Diddy's shield with a banana while she's floating towards you, and a lot of them (in my head, woo theorycraft) are looking to be in Jigglypuff's favor.

I'm not saying that Jigglypuff is a better overall character than Diddy (I know that she isn't). I'm not even saying that in a direct fight Jiggs kicks Diddy's ***. (I know that she does). I'm saying that your arguments aren't even flawed, they're just plain wrong. Play a decent Jiggs player before assuming stuff like this. Your posts here are an embarrassment to the Diddy boards.

You need to learn how to read posts. Don't assume that because someone's points are different or misinformed that they're horrible players who have no match-up experience. Don't attack people for having different or misinformed. Even if everything he said was outright wrong, saying, "YOU SUCK GET BETTER LEARN THE MATCHUP YOU'RE A DISGRACE TO THE DIDDY BOARDS" is not the way to do it.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Maybe because he doesn't, and you failed to read his actual post, and he's talking about this specific matchup which is not universal to everything?

Also, this is completely ignoring the entire matchup. Le Thien's entire post was about Diddy vs. Jigglypuff and about how Diddy's bananas combined with the nature of Jigglypuff's air game and the aerials Diddy can utilize can match the effectiveness of Jigglypuff's air game.


Again, read better because he never directly said that.

Wow, you're right. I have no idea why I took "Diddy's air game is better than Jiggs'" out of that post. I... woops.


Alright, Le_THieN, I must apologise for my harsh and unprecedented post. I misread the point you were trying to make, and acted according to it. What I typed to you, you did not deserve, and I'm sorry.

for some reason, I was under the impression that you had said that diddy's air game overall was better than Jiggs, got angry and chewed you out for it. I really shouldn't have been so harsh, even if you did make those claims. I was under the impression that you said something completely different.

I'm sorry, I was wrong. Can we now have a civil discussion about the Diddy/Jiggs matchup?