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The DK Match Up Thread.
- Thread starter Ripple
- Start date
Sonic has some combos against DK and other characters at low percents. His combos are usually 30% long or so. But they stop working at around 50%.
Afterwards, Sonic cant really do much against DK. So gg.
Afterwards, Sonic cant really do much against DK. So gg.
daisho
Smash Lord
I don't really understand how we can do anything to sonic though.
How do we approach him? What moves are good for killing? What is good to do when hes just spinning?
How do we approach him? What moves are good for killing? What is good to do when hes just spinning?
Veggi
Smash Champion
Try to time your down b to beat his spin dash so that the move starts right when he's about to be in range of it. If you just stand there using down b he can just jump over it and attack you. Also, challenge his spin dash with up b.
Killing=shield one of his attacks and down smash or find a way to outprioritize one of his moves with one of your smashes. Uair and bair can work as well.
Approach with bair or fox trot down b, fox trot down b will at least make him go to the air to attack you. If you approach with ftilt and he avoids it, he could just dash grab you. Up b makes a good approach on pretty much everyone other than Snake or some character with a good up b OOS.
Killing=shield one of his attacks and down smash or find a way to outprioritize one of his moves with one of your smashes. Uair and bair can work as well.
Approach with bair or fox trot down b, fox trot down b will at least make him go to the air to attack you. If you approach with ftilt and he avoids it, he could just dash grab you. Up b makes a good approach on pretty much everyone other than Snake or some character with a good up b OOS.
Circa
Smash Champion
Or you could just not approach, and react to what he does instead (at least for the beginning of the match). For some weird reason I see that working in this MU rather well.
daisho
Smash Lord
Note: I'm not arguing, just trying looking at this from a logical perspective to see what's correct. I don't know either way what this matchup is.
Can't really time the down b. Unless you react perfectly i doubt you'd be able to get the down b off. And if you mistime it he can punish easily.
Up B means you have to run toward him first. He can just release it while you are running before you can react to press up b.
Unless he is predictable, you can't really out prioritize his attacks to get a kill and unless D smash probably kills at ~100 so your not getting such early KOs on him (still insanely earlier than he should get on you).
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
its not new I've seen this brought up before and it won't change the match up at all because whenever TL jumbs and has bomb in hand, DK should be shielding. that AT will not work on DK
Veggi
Smash Champion
If he's starting a spin dash DK has plenty of time to react. If he comes at you with a spin dash, just up b. You don't need to dash to up b.
You'd be suprised, if someone tries to approach with bair or the like, you can take a step away and fsmash in the opposite direction. Same thing if he's one of those spring>dair Sonics. I never said dsmash killed super early, it kills moderately early.
daisho
Smash Lord
I was responding to the person who said it kills at 70. Chances are they won't ever approach with enough lag to be F smashed.
Thank you for your responses. Just wondering, have you ever played any good sonics?
crifer
Smash Lord
at the beginning it was annoying for me to fight sonics,
but now I think it´s laughable xD
you can ever bair like there´s no tomorrow, downB (even to make him go in the air and uair him),
and upB, you should be always jumping and bairing,
and you should defeat him.
but now I think it´s laughable xD
you can ever bair like there´s no tomorrow, downB (even to make him go in the air and uair him),
and upB, you should be always jumping and bairing,
and you should defeat him.
Veggi
Smash Champion
They don't need lag, you can just cut through one of their attacks with it.
I played a couple on the AiB ladder and beat them, but the lag was bad so I wouldn't trust my opinion too much. I played against some Sonic from the xat they have, but I was using Mario. He was pretty good, but the lag was bad so same thing applies. After that I have my friend irl who's not bad with Sonic.
I'm trying to only discuss move properties though because I don't have much experience with Sonics in an at least decent connection.
Donkey Bong
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 610
i never said dsmash kills at 70%, thats ridiculous.
paunch will kill at 70% approximately though, depending mostly on stage position, the closer you are to the extremes obviously the sooner it will kill. Super Armor that *****.
spin dash attacks are all slow on startup, when you see Sonic charging one, just shield and if you get a perfect shield you can punish with a SH uair.
usmash beats spin dashes coming in from above, if timed correctly.
also when i said "combos" i didnt mean true combos, i mostly meant that sonic is so fast that it will feel like hes comboing you, with his fair poking, jabbing and uair.
paunch will kill at 70% approximately though, depending mostly on stage position, the closer you are to the extremes obviously the sooner it will kill. Super Armor that *****.
spin dash attacks are all slow on startup, when you see Sonic charging one, just shield and if you get a perfect shield you can punish with a SH uair.
usmash beats spin dashes coming in from above, if timed correctly.
also when i said "combos" i didnt mean true combos, i mostly meant that sonic is so fast that it will feel like hes comboing you, with his fair poking, jabbing and uair.
ZxChrono
Smash Journeyman
honestly you can go through this match smacking sonic with ftilt when he approaches with dashes and if he goes in the air giving a mouth full african feet. you dont have to approach him just let him approach you. they will be saving their fsmash and bair for their kill move so once your around 50-60% his combo potential is pretty down the drain. if you punish him well enough with ftilt while hes on the ground hes going to go in the air and just bair him. if you never fought a decent sonic it will take time getting used to how fast they move around but once you got that down its fine.
daisho
Smash Lord
I'm still very confused on the Sonic matchup. Up B works somewhat well but not amazing... and Bair doesn't work much at all.
Darknid
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2008
- Messages
- 449
what are you having problems with?
Donkey Bong
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 610
bair works anytime they're in the air and they're not above you
uair is for when sonic is above you
the only bad position we have against him is when we're in the air and hes under us, dair is a bit slow to counter his uairs although with correct timing it beats it.
uair is for when sonic is above you
the only bad position we have against him is when we're in the air and hes under us, dair is a bit slow to counter his uairs although with correct timing it beats it.
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Ganon boards are discussing DK. Go to the "Triforce of Knowledge: Ganon Match-up" thread to discuss, and place input.
EDIT: Sorry for not providing a link. I'm using WiiNet... yes, laugh it out... -_-'
EDIT: Sorry for not providing a link. I'm using WiiNet... yes, laugh it out... -_-'
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
YO! The samus boards are talking about the DK vs Samus match-up. I would LOVE for you guys to through out some input. As much as you can.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222783
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222783
Luigi player
Smash Master
Why is Falco listed as 60:40 - 65:35? Do you really think he's that difficult for DK?
Soo... the current discussion is Sonic?
My guess is 55:45 for DK or even. Although I probably don't have enough experience to rate it accurately...
Soo... the current discussion is Sonic?
My guess is 55:45 for DK or even. Although I probably don't have enough experience to rate it accurately...
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
I haven't changed the first page because no one has given me a reason to edit it yet it 3 weeks
why has this thread become so dead again?
I still need write ups for falco and TL
falco is 45:55 in dk's advantage
falco can't nothing against but to camp with lazer down b ***** himl a the beginig when he tries to CG because they always try to roll behind you
when you do it well he will forget about the CG ( if he tries again at your your next stock down b him )
when your out of the CG %s it's too easy just Bair properly and you will fly to the victory
always try to grab at the edge and throw him out of the stage then Bair him till he dies it's easy when you know when to do it
some weeks ago i beat one of the best falco of france
when i first began playing DK i thought falco mathcup was impossible but today that's not a problem anymore
EDIT : I forgot about the side B , when you know that the falco is trying to grab you and he is waiting for you just jump like you're gonna Bair but side B just above him then do what you want !
falco can't nothing against but to camp with lazer down b ***** himl a the beginig when he tries to CG because they always try to roll behind you
when you do it well he will forget about the CG ( if he tries again at your your next stock down b him )
when your out of the CG %s it's too easy just Bair properly and you will fly to the victory
always try to grab at the edge and throw him out of the stage then Bair him till he dies it's easy when you know when to do it
some weeks ago i beat one of the best falco of france
when i first began playing DK i thought falco mathcup was impossible but today that's not a problem anymore
EDIT : I forgot about the side B , when you know that the falco is trying to grab you and he is waiting for you just jump like you're gonna Bair but side B just above him then do what you want !
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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- 9,632
no it isn't. its in his favor. he shuts our approach down hard plus illusion spamming can be a hassle. France obviously does not have that great of a falco if you think its in dk's advantage.
got any vids?
blakinola
Constantly Delicious
A flashy falco will keep DK off balance the whole match. Lasers force us to approach, and his jab leads into the dreaded CG. DK's predictable recovery can set us up for an easy spike, which can't be recovered from > 50%.
when he forces you to approach be smart dont jump in his jab lol
just walk towards him and shield lazers but don't aproach too much stop yourself when your in the down B range
i've never been spiked by a falco
you just have to save your second jump and use it properly , most of the time when i'm out of the stage i have my second jump saved so i can recover easily
i have to admit that without your second jump when you recover your gonna be spiked if it's a good falco but remember that when HE IS offstage it's 90:10 DK's advantage
just walk towards him and shield lazers but don't aproach too much stop yourself when your in the down B range
i've never been spiked by a falco
you just have to save your second jump and use it properly , most of the time when i'm out of the stage i have my second jump saved so i can recover easily
i have to admit that without your second jump when you recover your gonna be spiked if it's a good falco but remember that when HE IS offstage it's 90:10 DK's advantage
blakinola
Constantly Delicious
You need to look up who SK92 is, then get back to me.
I really wanna play some European players.
I really wanna play some European players.
Luigi player
Smash Master
I actually also think it's DKs advantage.
If Falco ever has to recover with upB he's dead if DK is on the ledge (falling bair, upB stall). So that means Falcos will have to side B onto the stage which is really predict- and punishable (side B, giant punch, etc.).
If Falco spams his jabs DI up and side B him, if he stops his jabs it won't work though.
DKs down B won't help against Falcos grab, because of the lasers, but DK has other things he can do against it. Bair, even if Falco lasers the whole time is still pretty good, if he turns you around it sucks, but stay in the air and you're save... sometimes you can punish his grabs with sideB and upB is also really good if you're not doing it too early.
If Falco spams lasers and side B it's annoying, but it's not that bad, it only does little damage and you can punish his side Bs with down Bs, side Bs, Bs, upBs, bair, ... if you react fast enough.
If you grab him at the edge you could go down and cargo downtoss him away, if he has his second jump he can get back, so maybe it's better to stay on the stage and then punish his recovery. He will most likely do side B anyways...
It's not that difficult to just double jump over his lasers or powershield them or just duck if he shoots high and platforms can help too. I'm not sure but I guess FD could be even or 45:55 Falcos favour. On other stages I think it's DKs advantage.
He just can't kill DK and dies at low %, because you can easily get him if he recovers. Falco could die at 70 %, maybe even earlier. Just get him offstage so that he has to use side B.
If Falco ever has to recover with upB he's dead if DK is on the ledge (falling bair, upB stall). So that means Falcos will have to side B onto the stage which is really predict- and punishable (side B, giant punch, etc.).
If Falco spams his jabs DI up and side B him, if he stops his jabs it won't work though.
DKs down B won't help against Falcos grab, because of the lasers, but DK has other things he can do against it. Bair, even if Falco lasers the whole time is still pretty good, if he turns you around it sucks, but stay in the air and you're save... sometimes you can punish his grabs with sideB and upB is also really good if you're not doing it too early.
If Falco spams lasers and side B it's annoying, but it's not that bad, it only does little damage and you can punish his side Bs with down Bs, side Bs, Bs, upBs, bair, ... if you react fast enough.
If you grab him at the edge you could go down and cargo downtoss him away, if he has his second jump he can get back, so maybe it's better to stay on the stage and then punish his recovery. He will most likely do side B anyways...
It's not that difficult to just double jump over his lasers or powershield them or just duck if he shoots high and platforms can help too. I'm not sure but I guess FD could be even or 45:55 Falcos favour. On other stages I think it's DKs advantage.
He just can't kill DK and dies at low %, because you can easily get him if he recovers. Falco could die at 70 %, maybe even earlier. Just get him offstage so that he has to use side B.
is there any vid of SK92 against a Dk on youtube ?
blakinola
Constantly Delicious
As far as I can see, not against a DK. But everyone's experiences will vary, so I won't go against you.
DK is horrible against a campy/gay Falco.
DK needs to keep Falco at medium distance with tilts to not get chaingrabbed.
DownB is very good in this match, either for pressure game or for punishing his SideB recovery.
If you powershield his smashes, punish him with Dsmash.
Learn how to SDI tech if you don´t want to die at low percentages.
Ban FD and CP on Brinstar.
65/35 in Falco´s favor
DK needs to keep Falco at medium distance with tilts to not get chaingrabbed.
DownB is very good in this match, either for pressure game or for punishing his SideB recovery.
If you powershield his smashes, punish him with Dsmash.
Learn how to SDI tech if you don´t want to die at low percentages.
Ban FD and CP on Brinstar.
65/35 in Falco´s favor
I used to think it was awful but I've started getting used to it. Once you're used to working you're way around lasers and grabs falco is bad. If you're both offstage falco should never be able to recover. DI up out of his jabs and side b. Save your double jump if he chain grabs you and just meteor cancel with tap jump because there is no time penalty if you do it early, then up b. Up b stall ***** falco offstage. You're main objective is getting falco offstage. Once he's there it's easy.
daisho
Smash Lord
Can't he still spike you after the chaingrab. As in chaingrab spike spike? Or chaingrab spike footstool?
daisho
Smash Lord
I mean it was wifi but atomsk did that 2 times in one game to me...
I'm sure if you DJ and air dodge right after it he will miss anyway. You could also time your up b to beat his Dair but that is a lot harder.
Luigi player
Smash Master
SDI to the stage and tech it, but it's probably not easy on wifi, lol. You can also SDI up so you won't be as far down and can grab the ledge a bit easier so you can move a bit away or something.... it's best with tap jump on like Ragnar0k said just mash up on the controlstick and maybe the Cstick (watch out that you don't do an uair..?). Teching it is probably a lot better though.
daisho
Smash Lord
Ya, can't use tap jump, ive tried.
I should try on the SDIing towards the stage.
I should try on the SDIing towards the stage.
crifer
Smash Lord
I don´t understand the people who say downB would be a good move against falco, lol.
the 20 frames you input a downB-> 2 laser in ya face(maybe one). Only good as follow up.
I like the MU between DK and falco, but not on wifi, lol.
Once your inside, you **** Falco. IDK I think if the Falco plays smart and side b properly it´s 55:45 falco.
the 20 frames you input a downB-> 2 laser in ya face(maybe one). Only good as follow up.
I like the MU between DK and falco, but not on wifi, lol.
Once your inside, you **** Falco. IDK I think if the Falco plays smart and side b properly it´s 55:45 falco.