The DK Match Up Thread.

[riti]

I don´t understand the people who say downB would be a good move against falco, lol.
the 20 frames you input a downB-> 2 laser in ya face(maybe one). Only good as follow up.
I like the MU between DK and falco, but not on wifi, lol.
Once your inside, you **** Falco. IDK I think if the Falco plays smart and side b properly it´s 55:45 falco.

I have only one thing to tell :
One day you'll learn the real power of our down B

 

[DKwill]

Can't he still spike you after the chaingrab. As in chaingrab spike spike? Or chaingrab spike footstool?

Haha, Bum showed me how to get out of that one. D1 confirmed it, all you have to do is DI/SDI away, jump, then up-b. Once you jump away you will be too far away from falco for him to attempt the foot stool or the follow-up spike.

 

[Luigi player]

I have only one thing to tell :
One day you'll learn the real power of our down B

But he's right... Down B has potential and with good reaction time and mindgames/predicting it can work really good, but not in the Falco matchup... If you down B Falco will laser you. Most Falcos will probably laser before they attemt to grab you and the laser will hit you out of it.
It might still be useable against him, but I think most of the time when you can use it there will be better options...

 

[DKwill]

But he's right... Down B has potential and with good reaction time and mindgames/predicting it can work really good, but not in the Falco matchup... If you down B Falco will laser you. Most Falcos will probably laser before they attemt to grab you and the laser will hit you out of it.
It might still be useable against him, but I think most of the time when you can use it there will be better options...

If DK is at zero/low percent, Falco will try to go in for the grab. If you can position within the correct spacing (optimally behind him), down B will **** him. His grab attempt will be punished by down B. He will hit the ground, scared of the down B and perhaps roll away. Again, punished by down B. With ground pound alone, you can mind game your opponent while you are at low percent bc he will ALWAYS be looking for the grab. Sometimes I just charge straight at Falco, powershield his lasers, then either running up b, ground pound, or grab depending on the spacing. The matchup would be a lot more difficult without down B as an asset, imo.

 

[Luigi player]

If DK is at zero/low percent, Falco will try to go in for the grab. If you can position within the correct spacing (optimally behind him), down B will **** him. His grab attempt will be punished by down B. He will hit the ground, scared of the down B and perhaps roll away. Again, punished by down B. With ground pound alone, you can mind game your opponent while you are at low percent bc he will ALWAYS be looking for the grab. Sometimes I just charge straight at Falco, powershield his lasers, then either running up b, ground pound, or grab depending on the spacing. The matchup would be a lot more difficult without down B as an asset, imo.

Falco will probably sh laser the whole time and if you come near he will laser you and you have no time to down B and can then grab you right after you're hit. Maybe you could jump away in time, but down B would be to slow...

 

[riti]

If DK is at zero/low percent, Falco will try to go in for the grab. If you can position within the correct spacing (optimally behind him), down B will **** him. His grab attempt will be punished by down B. He will hit the ground, scared of the down B and perhaps roll away. Again, punished by down B. With ground pound alone, you can mind game your opponent while you are at low percent bc he will ALWAYS be looking for the grab. Sometimes I just charge straight at Falco, powershield his lasers, then either running up b, ground pound, or grab depending on the spacing. The matchup would be a lot more difficult without down B as an asset, imo.

totaly right

 

[crifer]

I don´t say downB is a bad move or something like that,
but a Falco who is consistently spamming lassers and side, therefore not touching the ground at all, or often will be difficult to hit with downB,
once your inside its ok fpr punishing rolls and stuff

 

[DKwill]

I don´t say downB is a bad move or something like that,
but a Falco who is consistently spamming lassers and side, therefore not touching the ground at all, or often will be difficult to hit with downB,
once your inside its ok fpr punishing rolls and stuff

Yes, its true that there are unique instances where down b triumphs. In the situation where Falco spams lasers only though- that's where you rely on your power shielding ability and the SA frames of up-b to knock into him during his landing lag from the lasers. Up-b is prob a lot more useful in the matchup, as far as lasers go.

 

[crifer]

Yes, its true that there are unique instances where down b triumphs. In the situation where Falco spams lasers only though- that's where you rely on your power shielding ability and the SA frames of up-b to knock into him during his landing lag from the lasers. Up-b is prob a lot more useful in the matchup, as far as lasers go.

qft.

what is your favourite move to interrupt falco´s sideb, dk mains?
upb?

 

[Ragnar0k]

punch>phantasm.

 

[DKwill]

qft.

what is your favourite move to interrupt falco´s sideb, dk mains?
upb?

I actually like to either bait it and airdodge into a buffered d-smash or n-air to knock them away from the stage, force them to up-b and double jump stomp. The latter is extremely badass and situational while the prior happens pretty often haha.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Normally I just bair a bunch though. My favorite thing is WoP'ing with bair.

 

[DKwill]

Normally I just bair a bunch though. My favorite thing is WoP'ing with bair.

Mhmmmm. You can kill a Falco at pretty much any percent with the b-air wall o' pain. I love it when you can catch them really early in their first side-b with a b-air, then jump out off the screen and b-air them in the bubble zone for the kill haha. Because DK's recovery seems to have been made for such gimps =)

 

[ook]

I like to charged fsmash them out of it.

It doesn't always work... but when it does.... oh man. They get CLAPPED.
and they'll never try to recover like that again

 

[Ragnar0k]

But you want them to try to recover like that. Or not, because then you can ledge hog.

Falco should absolutely never be able to recover with his up b. There is no way he should get passed up b ledge stall and ledge drop/hopped bairs.

 

[riti]

qft.

what is your favourite move to interrupt falco´s sideb, dk mains?
upb?

spotdodge D-smash

 

[Stannum]

side b is a nice option if you dont have a punch. otherwise punch the bird when he phantasms.

 

[Ripple]

so I guess I'm gonna right the TL, sonic, and falco match ups since this thread needs to finish up and I've asked people to write them before but that didn't happen. I kinda like writing them anyway.

also look out for something new coming soon that should help out some of you with the match-ups. samuraipanda said this was coming out from the researchers soon and that was like 2 months ago so I decided to start on it since itisn't out yet

 

[daisho]

so I guess I'm gonna right the TL, sonic, and falco match ups since this thread needs to finish up and I've asked people to write them before but that didn't happen. I kinda like writing them anyway.

also look out for something new coming soon that should help out some of you with the match-ups. samuraipanda said this was coming out from the researchers soon and that was like 2 months ago so I decided to start on it since itisn't out yet

I have no idea what this means but I'm very excited

 

[Darknid]

For Falco's side B, I generally just punish the landing. If I see it coming, I like to grab him out of it(not shieldgrab). Makes em **** their pants.

 

[daisho]

Help with ZSS please... I just played one and got *****.

 

[ardirok]

If you don´t play smart, ZSS will **** you!

It is hard to approach her, when you get close or at medium range, you should tilt her to hell, but watch out for the 1frame jab!

It is a fair match up, the real problem is her paralyzer

 

[Luigi player]

I think shielding is important against ZSS, because they don't grab often. So just shield everything. And if she really grabs and misses you can punish her pretty hard. Shield the dsmash and don't jump into it. Bair her often, but don't try to space too much. It's annoying, but Zamus side B has more range than DK (maybe not than down B ^^), so you want to be in her face the whole time. And ZSSs rolls suck, so against a good ZSS don't expect her to roll often...


Btw guys, about MK Sliq wrote something in the Bowser Boards:

I figured out how to DI out of the tornado.

SamuraiPanda told me what Ally told him, and it works! It's actually pretty silly. What you do when you are getting tornado's is mash everything. That's it. Seriously.

You don't need to try to smash DI out of it. I would hold up and away on the control stick, and then wail on the face of the controller, hitting all of the face buttons as well as wiggling the hell out of the c stick.

I managed to continuously pop out of the tornado before the last hit, even when the MK was mashing b as fast as they could.

So, look into this. See how mashing random buttons helps you get out of the tornado. It helped me where smash DI has failed me in the past. I had assumed the tornado was inescapable as Bowser, and then I find this out. TEST THIS TO CONFIRM IT.

This might also apply to DK. I tried just rotating the controlstick and it seemed to work (it doesn't make sense to press other buttons to me, why would they change anything?). But I'm not sure, because I can't test this alone...


Oh and another thing about Meta Knight:
DK could grab release him, but he's too slow. Then I thought about the dthrow chaingrab on the Smashville platform again and came to the idea that DK can grab release MK on the platform =D He can air release MK to a free Dsmash or fully charged punch.

The only problem is that it won't be easy to grab the MK... and maybe he doesn't mash out so the platform already stopped moving.

 

[Sliq]

Hitting random buttons helped, for no explainable reason. Beats me. Maybe Nintendo figured people would mash **** to get out of things.

 

[Ripple]

if this actually works with DK then this will defintely turn the match up to 55-45 MK and not 60-40 anynore. as soon as we get out we could fast fall a punch, fair, or dair everytime they use the tornado

oh so now we don't have a solid disadvantage against any top tier besides DDD. REJOICE!

 

[daisho]

if this actually works with DK then this will defintely turn the match up to 55-45 MK and not 60-40 anynore. as soon as we get out we could fast fall a punch, fair, or dair everytime they use the tornado

oh so now we don't have a solid disadvantage against any top tier besides DDD. REJOICE!

Eh that really depends. Falco and/or Diddy easily could be considered solid advantages.

Only thing we have is surviving... best part of DK IMO.

 

[Luigi player]

I actually don't think Diddy is THAT bad anymore, I agree with 55-45. It's definitely winable for DK.
And Falco also isn't bad imo...

 

[crifer]

what? you ***** me yesterday with diddy, LP^^
or am I wrong? *thinks about it*
I did better with fox, and I dont know the mu at all with fox...

 

[Luigi player]

what? you ***** me yesterday with diddy, LP^^
or am I wrong? *thinks about it*
I did better with fox, and I dont know the mu at all with fox...

*caugh*online*caught*

The fights lagged like ****. You can't take them seriously.

 

[Ragnar0k]

bananas are even more broken when you can't control your character.

 

[crifer]

yeah, your right,
it becomes more a guessing than reacting game.
which sucks^^

 

[SuSa]

I thought Wario's Dthrow CG went from 30 to 180%.

That being said, CPU (SoCal) is amazing at is and 3 stocked my DK.

Even matchup my ***.

 

[crifer]

I thought Wario's Dthrow CG went from 30 to 180%.

That being said, CPU (SoCal) is amazing at is and 3 stocked my DK.

Even matchup my ***.

yeah hard as hell,
to get hits in, while he is air camping and to watch out,
to not get grabed, I was kicked out by a wario yesterday in a tourney,
it sucks,
maybe I should go snake or marth or something like that^^

 

[Darknid]

Well, I've learned that wifi sucks for everyone. I wifi john all day, tbh. Offline is obviously the real deal and the only way to judge.

As for breaking out of the tornado, I doubt DK has any more trouble with it than a normal sized character. DK gets out of a lot of things faster than other heavies(Ness' SideB, Sheik's ftilts etc.) for whatever reason. A 45-55 with MK would take away one of DK's few solid disadvantages. IMO his current three are D3, MK and Wario.

Think about it even more, if DK only has 2 disadvantages then a great secondary might pop up. You'd need someone to face D3 and Wario. Pikachu? A few pros have told me that Pikachu has a slight advantage over Wario but I'm not sure.

 

[Ripple]

Think About It Even More, If Dk Only Has 2 Disadvantages Then A Great Secondary Might Pop Up. You'd Need Someone To Face D3 And Wario. Pikachu? A Few Pros Have Told Me That Pikachu Has A Slight Advantage Over Wario But I'm Not Sure.

Omg!!!!!! Yoshi!!!!!!

 

[Luigi player]

I thought Wario's Dthrow CG went from 30 to 180%.

That being said, CPU (SoCal) is amazing at is and 3 stocked my DK.

Even matchup my ***.

Ripple seemingly has something to get out of it. Maybe Big O could help testing it and finding it out (or maybe he knows it aleady and doesn't want to tell us like Ripple ).

Why don't you tell us? Doesn't it work if the enemy knows about it? If that's the case it wouldn't really help anyway ._.

 

[SuSa]

You can get out if they start it at the wrong % or don't buffer it. (Think Pikachu's dthrow CG on chars like Snake)

From 30% to 180%, and it ends in a guarenteed fsmash.

Yes, you heard that correctly.

Guarenteed fsmash.

I was buffering shield every single dthrow, to no avail.

 

[daisho]

I thought Wario's Dthrow CG went from 30 to 180%.

That being said, CPU (SoCal) is amazing at is and 3 stocked my DK.

Even matchup my ***.

Don't get grabbed.

You grab him at 70 and its automatic kill.

You have Bair

He has Bite

AND YES **** YOU YOSHI!!!!

I always lose to scrub yoshis online... there really is just nothing I can do and he kills me early (at 150 with up air) except once I lived until 280 or something ridiculous because he kept egging me and pivot grabbing...

 

[SuSa]

Wario has setups from 0-15% into his grab.

So it's more like "don't get hit"

 

[Luigi player]

Are you sure you can't do anything against the fsmash?

Maybe you can fast fall and then powershield it... or upB/double jump/DI out of it.

I tried to do it and my dthrow was staled to maximum because I only used it... and tried to fsmash DK, but he always powershields. He can powershield it at any %...

Warios fsmash comes out on frame 9, do you really think he has a +9 frame advantage?