The DK Match Up Thread.

[Stannum]

falco is not that bad. at the startof your stock, throw out more down B's than usual, they will be trying hard for the cg. you can survive the cg to spike with you double jump but he can also dair you a second time and hit you out of your double jump, so watch out for that. dont get caught behind him when he fsmashes, cause that is the sweet spot. when he is recovering try to predict a phantasm and pawnch him, or if he is recovering low, use bair and up b to knock him away from the ledge for a low percent kill. if you can grab him out of his second jump cargo him off the stage and dtoss low if he is at a percent which will allow it. then just bair/up B edgeguard his UpB.

 

[thrillagorilla]

About that, sorry. I've recently moved, got a new job, and am still in the process of moving (I'm typing this on the company computer). I'll get that summary up as soon as I am able. Sorry for the wait!

 

[daisho]

About that, sorry. I've recently moved, got a new job, and am still in the process of moving (I'm typing this on the company computer). I'll get that summary up as soon as I am able. Sorry for the wait!

Already did the kirby summary if thats what your talking about. Great to have you back though.

About Falco, what do you do when he laser spams you and is not approaching?

 

[Ripple]

Already did the kirby summary if thats what your talking about. Great to have you back though.

About Falco, what do you do when he laser spams you and is not approaching?

walk and power shield. and try to avoid grabs at all costs

oh but take the lasers up to 40%

 

[itsthebigfoot]

snake was not covered, take it off the write up

for falco, walk up to a little past the tip of downb range and wait for his reaction, if he moves forward normally, downb/dtilt, if he sidebs, shield it and run up to shield grab him. if he rolls behind you, roll away and then downb or spam dtilts.

space a lot of bairs, camp the platforms to avoid grabs, ban FD, and when he's going for a ko, avoid the bair and try to punch his usmashes

 

[Darknid]

Some points about this matchup.

1. Escape the CG around 35-40% using up B to hit him. If he gets the spike, don't worry, just jump up and up B back to the stage. You'll probably never get gimped by the CG to spike, because if Falco tries to follow up on it he usually gets gimped.

2. Gimp Falco with bair WOPs. Remain close to the stage and hit him through the second half of his side B after throwing him low with D throw.

3. If he lasers then follows up by dashing a lot, you can use side B right after a laser hits you and he will dash right into it as you are safe from most attacks.

Good CPs are Yoshi's(You can plank), Mansion, Lylat and Brinstar. I maintain that DK wins on japes, but you have no reason to give him any chance.

Matchup is 45:55 in my opinion, could be even. IDK how you could call it any worse unless you're not doing it right.

 

[Demp]

What if Falco just camps with lasers and phantasms the whole time?

 

[Jmex]

90% of the Falcos ive played only side b and laser spam. Sometimes they dont even go for the chaingrab at the beginning.

 

[Luigi player]

If you upB out of Falcos chaingrab you can usually land laglessly on a platform.

If you avoid the CG then a other part of the battle starts.

Falco is really annoying with his lasers and side B, but it should be manageable for DK to beat him. Just watch out for the CG at the start...

Always predict a side B if he recovers. If he goes below the edge he can't recover if you edgeguard properly. The range of his upB is soo short, and if he can land on the stage you can go up and grab him and turn around and cargo dtoss. He'll probably try to recover with side B again...

He'll get at least many % if he recovers below, so you should always expect a side B. If he didn't use if and is at the height of the edge try to edgehog him. If he side Bs he might die, if he upBs do the thing I wrote above.

Although it's not that easy and you have to be quick.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Some points about this matchup.

1. Escape the CG around 35-40% using up B to hit him. If he gets the spike, don't worry, just jump up and up B back to the stage. You'll probably never get gimped by the CG to spike, because if Falco tries to follow up on it he usually gets gimped.

2. Gimp Falco with bair WOPs. Remain close to the stage and hit him through the second half of his side B after throwing him low with D throw.

3. If he lasers then follows up by dashing a lot, you can use side B right after a laser hits you and he will dash right into it as you are safe from most attacks.

Good CPs are Yoshi's(You can plank), Mansion, Lylat and Brinstar. I maintain that DK wins on japes, but you have no reason to give him any chance.

Matchup is 45:55 in my opinion, could be even. IDK how you could call it any worse unless you're not doing it right.

larry can cg to spike then follow it up with a second spike if you don't tech

no other falco can do it, but larry can. don't mash upb, you'll occasionally lose your jump, just DI into the stage if he's going for the spike or away if it's on the stage.

but so long as it isn't fd you can just platform camp, so it doesn't matter, you shouldn't get grabbed in spike range anyway, which is why you ban fd

bair wops don't work for gimping, only for getting him out into gimp range, you can try to spike the sideb, but it's better to just stay center stage and catch his sideb to get him offstage again

I already covered the camp stuff earlier, but I recommend you don't counterpick luigis, uthrow into laser lock does work on dk there. good cps are battlefield, brinstar, lylat, pokemon stadium, yoshis, rainbow cruise, delfino and corneria if legal (corneria ***** his camp game). you can take him pretty much anywhere you feel comfortable, he's only really dangerous on FD (which you should ban) and japes (which you shouldn't mind)

 

[Cyphus]

very pro tip is mashing ForwardB to punish his jab to grab game. it'll keep you aerial, dodge his grab/2nd jab and put him under ground.

throwing in f.tilt/upb approaches work really nice to to either retaliate after lasers and cut through.
this fight is deffinately winnable, but i still think its falcos favor if he plays super careful.

oh also, if you're ahead you can plank Falco pretty good, lol. falco sucks balls at hitting people off the edge. he'll eventually try to mix up some sorta mindgame b.air.
if he's too close he's risking getting upaired/get-up-attacked/etc.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Just wanted to add for the Falco MU... if the Falco does get the CG to spike and you don't tech it, any Falco can follow you off the stage for a quick footstool too. Not many use it, but if they predict the meteor cancel, they can do it to DK without any threat to them, and even be in position to edge-hog if they have to.

@daisho: Thanks, its great to be back. I won't worry about the writeup then.

 

[Darknid]

Just wanted to add for the Falco MU... if the Falco does get the CG to spike and you don't tech it, any Falco can follow you off the stage for a quick footstool too. Not many use it, but if they predict the meteor cancel, they can do it to DK without any threat to them, and even be in position to edge-hog if they have to.

@daisho: Thanks, its great to be back. I won't worry about the writeup then.

While that's possible, it's extremely easy to mess that up plus you can DI to switch up the Falco's looks.

By the way, DK deals with lasers > phantasm like any other character, punish the landing of the side B or interrupt it. I usually grab him out of it or dsmash when I predict it.

 

[crifer]

omg
I thought the m vs falco was ok,
J had fun playing against falcos and ****** them,
but I played yesterday against a falco main on wif
and it was ridicoulus... really only sied B and laser spam,
and he killed me at 200 % every stock,
it really sucked, especially on japes
(where I could work against it with upB)...
and tips against laser spam?
walk, shield and ftilt?

 

[Luigi player]

omg
I thought the m vs falco was ok,
J had fun playing against falcos and ****** them,
but I played yesterday against a falco main on wif
and it was ridicoulus... really only sied B and laser spam,
and he killed me at 200 % every stock,
it really sucked, especially on japes
(where I could work against it with upB)...
and tips against laser spam?
walk, shield and ftilt?

Walk to him and shield the lasers (or jump above them? If there are platforms). Anyway just try to get to him and look what he does. Try to predict him the next time you are near him. If he likes to side B away try to predict it.

It's harder to get through the lasers on wifi though...
But it's easier to "surprise" him with an attack or an approach or something.

 

[KoSa!]

I wouldn't go japes against Falco. Brinstar. The curves of the stage can mess him up. You got platforms to dodge lasers and things.

I think someone else said this, a good Falco isn't going to worry about cgs, mostly camp lasers and WHEN HE KNOWS YOU CAN'T PUNISH, he will use his sideB. DK, to me has no chance on FD and balances this matchup due to stage picks.

 

[thrillagorilla]

While that's possible, it's extremely easy to mess that up plus you can DI to switch up the Falco's looks.

By the way, DK deals with lasers > phantasm like any other character, punish the landing of the side B or interrupt it. I usually grab him out of it or dsmash when I predict it.

DK is a big target, and he needs all of the vertical distance he can get from the spike. It isn't hard for Falco to do at all, he just needs to predict when the jump is going to happen rather than where, the footstool itself is easy to land. If he misses, he can just recover to the stage with little danger to himself. Falco needs to get that CG to spike for it to work though, so as long as you can get yourself up to 50% without getting grabbed there shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Darknid]

DK is a big target, and he needs all of the vertical distance he can get from the spike. It isn't hard for Falco to do at all, he just needs to predict when the jump is going to happen rather than where, the footstool itself is easy to land. If he misses, he can just recover to the stage with little danger to himself. Falco needs to get that CG to spike for it to work though, so as long as you can get yourself up to 50% without getting grabbed there shouldn't be an issue.

If he misses, that means he'll expend his double jump and jump directly into DK's up B as DK is recovering, which leads to an easy gimp.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Just be smart with your recovery and you won't get gimped.

 

[crifer]

off-topic:
****
Did anyone of you DK Mains fought a good yoshi, yet??
omg, it´s the mu where I have the most problems...
It´s not that I get *****, but I always tend to lose.
Eggs are like sheik needle, falco´s/wolf´s laser, you can only dodge or sheild it...
if you sheild a egg, you get grabed,
pivot grabs beat almost everything and yoshi has the tools to gimp DK,
any tips?

 

[Ragnar0k]

I haven't played a good yoshi before but I could see how Yoshi could give DK trouble. Personally I kept getting dash grabbed because it's so quick and goes through our tilt game.

 

[D0N]

I fought a couple good yoshi's. The first time I fought a good one I kept getting spiked, I had no idea his was useful. I also had no idea he could be so good in the right hands. I don't want to go away from the falco matchup discusion, so for now all I will say is b-air works better than tilts and if he tries to recover onstage shield, watch for an airdodge or some air attack, and punish (doesnt always work). I have a vid against a good yoshi, click my signature

Edit: Ok my sig won't show... its in the video thread

 

[Cyphus]

i've fought furbs and bwett a few times here and there at TX tournies. Bwett being prolly the best yoshi, period.
I think its DK's favor. B.air and f.tilt are just monster moves at outspacing him. eggs are dangerous, but you just gotta be smart about approaching around them. Yoshi has trouble landing kill moves unless you get baited into his upair or something. i would think 60:40 cuz of DK's natural power and range advantage being more important in this fight. DJ'Cing egg laying is tricky, but its not like it does much damage, lol.

 

[KoSa!]

I think bigfoot said it correct in his post in the yoshi MU thread. They still think its an easy MU for them.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7108805&postcount=6

But if they CG you to the edge, you got to either jump out and go above him to avoid Dair, or UpB right out of it to stop SHFair.

 

[Ripple]

do you guys ever stay on topic anymore???

and who's going to write the match ups?

 

[daisho]

I can probably do the snake one eventually, I don't know diddy or TL well enough though.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I posted like 3 matchup write ups a few pages back. Including diddy and snake.

 

[daisho]

Here are some walls of text I made before about some matchups. I haven't reread through them so it might not be up to date but they're only a few months old.

Snake:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7478019&postcount=98

Diddy:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7477506&postcount=1440

And Olimar just because I'm already digging through my old posts.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7477682&postcount=315

Hope those help. Let me know if there's anything in them that isn't right anymore.

There it is.

 

[Ragnar0k]

thanks daisho.

 

[Darknid]

For Yoshi, even though he has a good recovery, try to gimp him every chance you get. Cargo and Dthrow him low, then get back to the ledge and tap him away with your up B(Yoshi's recovery won't stage spike you)

 

[itsthebigfoot]

^ no, don't try to gimp him

I'll tell you what to do later but for once can you ADD afflicted monkeys focus on the matchup in the title

falco, anything to add on my posts?

 

[crifer]

yeah u cn not gimp yoshi on a regular base.
if it works: the yoshi sucks.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

stay on falco for like 1 page please

 

[Jmex]

off-topic:
****
Did anyone of you DK Mains fought a good yoshi, yet??
omg, it´s the mu where I have the most problems...
It´s not that I get *****, but I always tend to lose.
Eggs are like sheik needle, falco´s/wolf´s laser, you can only dodge or sheild it...
if you sheild a egg, you get grabed,
pivot grabs beat almost everything and yoshi has the tools to gimp DK,
any tips?

If your in the air he will always wait for your air dodge and punish with an up air. Yoshis can punish people in the air like no other. Its scary.

 

[Donkey Bong]

lol @ the 2 yoshi posts after BF's request to stop.

has anyone mentioned that falco has trouble killing DK (who doesnt, but its a bigger problem for him i think)? he's got his fsmash, usmash and bair, but i dont see why DK would ever be losing to falco in the air and fsmash/usmash is easily punished with a sliding shield grab. at high percents he'll be trying to land those, so you can "spam" your shield to get grabs, hes not going to kill you with any of his grabs.

 

[Ragnar0k]

clanking with falco's side b makes him get the landing lag from it right in front of you. This can lead into a lot of moves and makes punishing it really easy.

 

[Ripple]

updated. still need to discuss TL and need a write up for TL and falco.

I'll get around to making paragraphs on rags write ups

 

[daisho]

What about the sonic matchup? I noticed that a couple of people put it as 60:40 but why?

I mean he can't ever kill us before 150 and usually at around 200 but he can do insane spindash combos which are annoying since we are so big. Hes also really fast and can grab us out of our lag.

What do you think of the matchup and why and how should we fight the matchup?

(Bringing this up because a sonic main told me it was a 60:40 sonic advantage and i dont know enough about the matchup to refute him).

 

[Donkey Bong]

i'd say that its 60:40 but DK's favor
sonic is miles ahead of DK in speed, but thats it. DK outprioritizes a lot of Sonic's attacks, or he'll just simply outrange them. Sonic can get some mean combos on DK but like you said, its going to take Sonic a lot to kill DK and DK can kill Sonic easily at 70% approximately.
if Sonic decides to play gay and get some damage on DK and then run for the rest of the match then yeah you're gonna lose but i think that would only work on a stage like RC

bair and uair beat sonic in the air
also if you force sonic to recover low you can spike him using dair
like this at 1:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_ZOqDja_I

 

[Darknid]

i'd say that its 60:40 but DK's favor
sonic is miles ahead of DK in speed, but thats it. DK outprioritizes a lot of Sonic's attacks, or he'll just simply outrange them. Sonic can get some mean combos on DK but like you said, its going to take Sonic a lot to kill DK and DK can kill Sonic easily at 70% approximately.
if Sonic decides to play gay and get some damage on DK and then run for the rest of the match then yeah you're gonna lose but i think that would only work on a stage like RC

bair and uair beat sonic in the air
also if you force sonic to recover low you can spike him using dair
like this at 1:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_ZOqDja_I

What combos? What combos can Sonic get? Obviously none involving his jabs, tilts, smashes, grabs or aerials so what are you talking about?

Anyways, Sonic boards have it at 60:40 DK and rightly so. Sonic's only advantage is his mobility which will make him hard to kill on some stages.