The Conduit (FC's First Page)

[M3D]

We are The Bureau. If people don't like the name, they are totally welcome to form up their own clan or whatever.

Moral of yesterday's story:

Infirmary/Bunker = Bad
Sanctum/Streets = Good

Also, lonejedi lies about his prowess on Bunker. He did not have a 2-1 ratio.

Note to all those people looking for ATs, the shotgun cancel is not that useful in multiplayer. People jump around so much that you are not likely to hit both shots anyways. Shotgun-Melee is probably more effective.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

We are The Bureau. If people don't like the name, they are totally welcome to form up their own clan or whatever.

Moral of yesterday's story:

Infirmary/Bunker = Bad
Sanctum/Streets = Good

Also, lonejedi lies about his prowess on Bunker. He did not have a 2-1 ratio.

Note to all those people looking for ATs, the shotgun cancel is not that useful in multiplayer. People jump around so much that you are not likely to hit both shots anyways. Shotgun-Melee is probably more effective.

Infirmary is pretty awesome though...

So, what's a shotgun cancel and why would anyone look for ATs? It seems like just making more work for yourself finding exploits that will inevitably be discovered, so as to complicate a game that no one has yet mastered the basics of.

 

[Faithkeeper]

So, what's a shotgun cancel and why would anyone look for ATs? It seems like just making more work for yourself finding exploits that will inevitably be discovered, so as to complicate a game that no one has yet mastered the basics of.

Yeah, why would you bother wavedashing or l-canceling anyway?

shotgun cancel is: shoot>melee>reload>shoot. the actions cancel eachother out and you can shoot much faster. Depending on how fast, faster than the tpc launcher.

People are always looking for that edge. Also, I went public today to realize I no longer dominate online. I'm inconsistant as a mug. I'll get a 2:1 ratio and win a match, then I'll go to the same map, same set, same rules, and not even get as many kills as deaths. Anybody ever had this problem and/or know how to fix it?

People online have gotten a lot better with the scar... One thing I like/dislike about all the maps I can think of, is there is no "safe" sniping spot. Yes, I like sniping, but it's no fun when someone does it to you in a way you can't really fight back.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Yeah, why would you bother wavedashing or l-canceling anyway?

shotgun cancel is: shoot>melee>reload>shoot. the actions cancel eachother out and you can shoot much faster. Depending on how fast, faster than the tpc launcher.

People are always looking for that edge. Also, I went public today to realize I no longer dominate online. I'm inconsistant as a mug. I'll get a 2:1 ratio and win a match, then I'll go to the same map, same set, same rules, and not even get as many kills as deaths. Anybody ever had this problem and/or know how to fix it?

People online have gotten a lot better with the scar... One thing I like/dislike about all the maps I can think of, is there is no "safe" sniping spot. Yes, I like sniping, but it's no fun when someone does it to you in a way you can't really fight back.

You learn how to wave dash and l-cancel because you have no choice. Everyone else does it, and it is necesary to win. Why anyone would look for said AT is beyond me - as long as it isn't discovered, the game is much simpler to master.

EDIT: This is especially true for online multiplayer games. The fastest way to infuriate a player online is to use exploits - they are often misinterpretted as hacks and cheats until they become well known.

 

[Darkurai]

Hey guys? Small problem.

Gamebattles keeps glitching every time I register. To be exact, I go through the whole sign-up process, but it never sends me the confirmation e-mail. I've tried it twice. Any suggestions?

 

[Darkslash]

Gamebattles keeps glitching every time I register. To be exact, I go through the whole sign-up process, but it never sends me the confirmation e-mail. I've tried it twice. Any suggestions?

Are you getting any errors? If you have a fire Fox+ No script combo, allow both Gamebattles and MLGpro. That way the GB and MLG systems will register with you stuff.

Trust me on this one.

 

[Darkurai]

Are you getting any errors? If you have a fire Fox+ No script battle, allow both Gamebattles and MLGpro. That way the GB and MLG systems will register with you stuff.

Trust me on this one.

How exactly do I do that?

 

[Faithkeeper]

You learn how to wave dash and l-cancel because you have no choice. Everyone else does it, and it is necesary to win. Why anyone would look for said AT is beyond me - as long as it isn't discovered, the game is much simpler to master.

Why in the world would I want a game that's simple to master? I don't want some random noob on par with me....

Also, you learn WDing and L-canceling because it's fun as a mug. Think about what melee would be like without them. Sheik. Sheik is gay. A LOT less combos. A LOT less speed. Some of the things that make melee far better competitively than brawl. These ATs enhance gameplay, and if they are to overpowered (like wobbling or freeze glitches) they are banned. Ask any decent melee player, ATs make the game more fun.

EDIT: This is especially true for online multiplayer games. The fastest way to infuriate a player online is to use exploits - they are often misinterpretted as hacks and cheats until they become well known.

The fastest way to infuriate a player online is to be better than them.

It's the same story with competitive melee. Noobs think pros play on lightning melee, once they have some basic knowledge of the game they are corrected. Same scenario here. No reason to worry.

____________________
​

Also, I just had my best game ever. Near/far on streets, marathon. I had a 12 kill streak and won the game with 35 kills and 10 deaths. Get rolled. SCAR is probably the best [non broken] gun in the game imo.

 

[M3D]

People look for ATs because winning is more fun than losing. Its the same reason why companies automate certain processes or why athletes look for new training techniques. Everything would be simpler without advancement, but that doesn't necessarily make it better.

I think I discovered some grenade tricks last night, but I'll need to test them out and make sure I'm right before I start saying stuff that might not be true.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Note to all those people looking for ATs, the shotgun cancel is not that useful in multiplayer. People jump around so much that you are not likely to hit both shots anyways. Shotgun-Melee is probably more effective.

It CAN be useful if you "space yourself" (as I call it). Run up to an opponent, make him think you're going in for a close-combat shotgun-melee, then start running backwards. Your opponent will start running at you with his shotgun firing (unless they predict this, or just don't have a shotty). His shotgun (and yours as well) won't be as effective from mid-rangish (if you spaced yourself right), but you have the upper hand if you use the shotty AT since you'll be able to fire faster and beat your opponent, without having to risk going in closer where they might be able to hit you faster than you can get them. Hope I understand the AT enough to be saying this. >_>

I've never used "spacing" for that purpose though, I've always done it to trump my opponent's shotty with mid-range SCAR (or TPC), which usually beat it. Speaking of TPC, I got two kills off of it on Sanctum...while blind. Yes, even a flash grenade cannot hold back the epic awesomeness of the TPC. One was M@v, and the other was RDK...I told you you'd regret saying that, RDK. 85:25?

 

[Faithkeeper]

It CAN be useful if you "space yourself" (as I call it). Run up to an opponent, make him think you're going in for a close-combat shotgun-melee, then start running backwards. Your opponent will start running at you with his shotgun firing (unless they predict this, or just don't have a shotty). His shotgun (and yours as well) won't be as effective from mid-rangish (if you spaced yourself right), but you have the upper hand if you use the shotty AT since you'll be able to fire faster and beat your opponent, without having to risk going in closer where they might be able to hit you faster than you can get them. Hope I understand the AT enough to be saying this. >_>

I've never used "spacing" for that purpose though, I've always done it to trump my opponent's shotty with mid-range SCAR (or TPC), which usually beat it. Speaking of TPC, I got two kills off of it on Sanctum...while blind. Yes, even a flash grenade cannot hold back the epic awesomeness of the TPC. One was M@v, and the other was RDK...I told you you'd regret saying that, RDK. 85:25?

Yeah, I use the shotgun cancel when I've just been flashed... .... anyway.... if I know their general direction sometimes I'll just fire off 3-4 shots and kill. It's not efficient, but it's better than jumping around blindly imo.

 

[comboking]

Anyone want to play right now?

 

[metaXzero]

Why in the world would I want a game that's simple to master? I don't want some random noob on par with me....

Also, you learn WDing and L-canceling because it's fun as a mug. Think about what melee would be like without them. Sheik. Sheik is gay. A LOT less combos. A LOT less speed. Some of the things that make melee far better competitively than brawl. These ATs enhance gameplay, and if they are to overpowered (like wobbling or freeze glitches) they are banned. Ask any decent melee player, ATs make the game more fun.



The fastest way to infuriate a player online is to be better than them.

It's the same story with competitive melee. Noobs think pros play on lightning melee, once they have some basic knowledge of the game they are corrected. Same scenario here. No reason to worry.

____________________
​

Also, I just had my best game ever. Near/far on streets, marathon. I had a 12 kill streak and won the game with 35 kills and 10 deaths. Get rolled. SCAR is probably the best [non broken] gun in the game imo.

They make the game more fun for everyone who isn't the oblivious first-tourney newb who gets 4-stocked every match. Melee's main weakness is it's learning curve keeps newbs out and may kill their interest in tourneys. A person could learn spend their time learning the ATs and STILL get wrecked. This is why Melee struggles to get new faces. Note: I love Melee.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

People look for ATs because winning is more fun than losing. Its the same reason why companies automate certain processes or why athletes look for new training techniques. Everything would be simpler without advancement, but that doesn't necessarily make it better.

I think I discovered some grenade tricks last night, but I'll need to test them out and make sure I'm right before I start saying stuff that might not be true.

You make a false assumption - that discovering a new AT yourself will help you win. Studying previously discovered ATs will help you win, but discovering an AT brings a new technique to the table actually makes it more difficult - you just made the game more complicated by revealing a new trick to the world, thus making victory harder than before, because everyone else will add your new trick to their playstyle. It's counter-productive in the long run, and only helps you in a very immediate future - the time between when you discover it, and when you tell another person how to do it/another person learns how to do it from watching you is the amount of time that the AT is useful to you. After that, the new AT is useless, because everyone that's any good has it.

Discovering new ATs makes it harder to win, while learning the ATs other people discovered makes victory easier.

Spoiler

Although personally, I think any trick that puts up entry barriers makes the game less fun for people who want good fights - fights between relative equals. Fortunately, I don't have that problem, as I play to shotgun people in the face for massacre acchievments, but my rivalry with Werekill would no longer exist if one of us were to suddenly have a lot more tricks than the other - the matches wouldn't be even anymore, as the two of us would stop having very close scores at the end of good matches.

That's the problem with all this depth - the deeper the game, the less likely I am to find someone who is at the same level of skill as myself. I want it to be easy to find people I can go toe-to-toe with, not painful.

 

[Faithkeeper]

You make a false assumption - that discovering a new AT yourself will help you win. Studying previously discovered ATs will help you win, but discovering an AT brings a new technique to the table actually makes it more difficult - you just made the game more complicated by revealing a new trick to the world, thus making victory harder than before, because everyone else will add your new trick to their playstyle.

You discovered the AT. You very likely know more about the mechanics behind it than others. If everyone uses the AT, it does not inherently hurt or help you. But everyone does not. you Have an extra edge over those who do not, helping you win. If both you and your opponent use it, then that does not hurt you.

It's counter-productive in the long run, and only helps you in a very immediate future - the time between when you discover it, and when you tell another person how to do it/another person learns how to do it from watching you is the amount of time that the AT is useful to you. After that, the new AT is useless, because everyone that's any good has it.

The new AT adds depth to the game and can allow for things that could not be accomplished before. Again, I cite the example of melee. Wavedashing allowed for waveshines, greatly increasing fox's combo ability. Wavedashing also sets up for better spacing. I won't bother to go into any more detail because it's an example, But ATs give the player of the game more options rather than less.

Discovering new ATs makes it harder to win, while learning the ATs other people discovered makes victory easier.

Learning ATs makes it easier to win. It doesn't matter who discovers it.

Although personally, I think any trick that puts up entry barriers makes the game less fun for people who want good fights - fights between relative equals.

That's why there are multiple levels of skill. you want to play someone your level? You can find one. ATs just add higher levels of play.

Fortunately, I don't have that problem, as I play to shotgun people in the face for massacre acchievments,

uh?

but my rivalry with Werekill would no longer exist if one of us were to suddenly have a lot more tricks than the other - the matches wouldn't be even anymore, as the two of us would stop having very close scores at the end of good matches.

If one learns ATs the other can too. Poof. You are both at the same level, and better. Now you can continue to shoot those guys in the face with your shotgun- more effectively.

That's the problem with all this depth - the deeper the game, the less likely I am to find someone who is at the same level of skill as myself. I want it to be easy to find people I can go toe-to-toe with, not painful.

I see no reason why this would be true. Explain.

 

[lonejedi]

I don't understand how anyone can be against AT's or finding AT's. In order for a game to grow competatively, AT's have to exist. It's fine if you want to play someone on your level, without using AT's, go tell your friends to go buy The Conduit and play online against each other, you can play with AT's and everyone will be happy. But if you want to get better, and if you want this game to become competative, AT's are essential. AT's reward those who put the hard work into learning them. If you're too lazy to learn the AT yourself, thats your own fault, no one is stopping you from learning them.

Melee is a great example of this. For those of you who actually have been around long enough to understand how Melee works, and judging by your join dates, most of you don't, you should know that AT's made melee the game it was. Those who were the best at the game, knew the AT's. They didn't sit their for 1 or 2 hours, many practiced ALL the time. The same goes for Halo. These guys got good by practicing. They seperated themselves competatively from the pack, which caused others to do the same. If you're content with staying at the same skill level, and not elevating your game, you can be agaisnt AT's, but for those of us who want to get better, finding stuff like this is essential. I personally would love to see this game grow competatively, but it will never be that if we stick to the game that came in the box. Illegal hacks are one thing, but using advantages that don't come with hacking isn't. As long as everyone has the same fair opportunity to learn it, then it will only help this game.

 

[Faithkeeper]

I don't understand how anyone can be against AT's or finding AT's. In order for a game to grow competatively, AT's have to exist. It's fine if you want to play someone on your level, without using AT's, go tell your friends to go buy The Conduit and play online against each other, you can play with AT's and everyone will be happy. But if you want to get better, and if you want this game to become competative, AT's are essential. AT's reward those who put the hard work into learning them. If you're too lazy to learn the AT yourself, thats your own fault, no one is stopping you from learning them.

Melee is a great example of this. For those of you who actually have been around long enough to understand how Melee works, and judging by your join dates, most of you don't, you should know that AT's made melee the game it was. Those who were the best at the game, knew the AT's. They didn't sit their for 1 or 2 hours, many practiced ALL the time. The same goes for Halo. These guys got good by practicing. They seperated themselves competatively from the pack, which caused others to do the same. If you're content with staying at the same skill level, and not elevating your game, you can be agaisnt AT's, but for those of us who want to get better, finding stuff like this is essential. I personally would love to see this game grow competatively, but it will never be that if we stick to the game that came in the box. Illegal hacks are one thing, but using advantages that don't come with hacking isn't. As long as everyone has the same fair opportunity to learn it, then it will only help this game.

Well said, I concur.

 

[Superstar]

ATs don't necessarily MAKE the game competitive, in both ways. A game can be so terrible that no matter how many ATs you find it can never be good, and an AT-less game can still be competitive [to some extent].

ATs add competitiveness, it's undeniable. But it's possible for basic mechanics to still create a competitive game.

For example, SSB64. It's not as competitive as Melee, but from what I see it has less "ATs" than even Brawl and it's still more competitive [you can like Brawl, but this competitive stuff is undeniable. I admit TF2 is less competitive than Quake and that SSB64 is less competitive than Melee and I still love them].

Also, by human nature most people won't learn competitiveness, or only to a minor extent. It will still be easy to find people that suck.

 

[lonejedi]

BTW, we'll be playing practices and possibly some GB matches tonight. Everyone meet at the normal spot a little early tonight. Preferably 8:30 ET.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I see no reason why this would be true. Explain.

The more levels of play, the farther apart you grow from everyone else.

It's very simple - if a game is too deep, finding players who are equally skilled becomes harder on the basis that there are more levels of understanding of the game. The higher you are on the tier, the more impossible it is to find fun matches because few people have reached your level of skill. If the game isn't too deep, you can find a lot of people who play at any given level, if a game has infinite depth, no one will play at the same level. you'll either pwn or get pwned.

And say what you want about ATs, but if you want to be the best, you should not discover ATs. Especially as a member of a clan. Every AT is an opportunity for an opposing, well-organized clan to perfect it's skills, and an opportunity to lose the value of a member of your own clan. What if your best member uses a control scheme that is incompatable with an AT you discover, such as the shotgun one? While you can guarentee that someone, somewhere will have no such problem and immediately adopt the new AT, you can also guarentee that valuable members of your clan will struggle.

Spoiler

Occam's Razor seems to be a good reference. Murphy's law as well.

EDIT:

I don't understand how anyone can be against AT's or finding AT's. In order for a game to grow competatively, AT's have to exist. It's fine if you want to play someone on your level, without using AT's, go tell your friends to go buy The Conduit and play online against each other, you can play with AT's and everyone will be happy. But if you want to get better, and if you want this game to become competative, AT's are essential. AT's reward those who put the hard work into learning them. If you're too lazy to learn the AT yourself, thats your own fault, no one is stopping you from learning them.

Melee is a great example of this. For those of you who actually have been around long enough to understand how Melee works, and judging by your join dates, most of you don't, you should know that AT's made melee the game it was. Those who were the best at the game, knew the AT's. They didn't sit their for 1 or 2 hours, many practiced ALL the time. The same goes for Halo. These guys got good by practicing. They seperated themselves competatively from the pack, which caused others to do the same. If you're content with staying at the same skill level, and not elevating your game, you can be agaisnt AT's, but for those of us who want to get better, finding stuff like this is essential. I personally would love to see this game grow competatively, but it will never be that if we stick to the game that came in the box. Illegal hacks are one thing, but using advantages that don't come with hacking isn't. As long as everyone has the same fair opportunity to learn it, then it will only help this game.

No.

Rewarding hard work in a game? There shouldn't be any hard work involved.

There seems to me to be two types of games. Competitive and Anti-competitive, ones that require skill and recreational ones meant for unwinding. Video games always struck me as the latter, something about the nature of what a game is.

The Conduit is probably an especially good example of what a competitive game should not be. Game mechanics should not change based on artificial outside factors, such as lag. Smash Bros. could never be competitive if online was the only multiplayer.

/offtopic: Incidently, it's very hard to call Sims 3 a game. Where's the winner and the loser?

 

[Lore]

The Conduit is probably an especially good example of what a competitive game should not be. Game mechanics should not change based on artificial outside factors, such as lag. Smash Bros. could never be competitive if online was the only multiplayer.

/offtopic: Incidently, it's very hard to call Sims 3 a game. Where's the winner and the loser?

Truth. Both of them. XD

Maybe Conduit 2 will have splitscreen, or at LEAST lan. We can only pray.

 

[metalmonstar]

Are we using our usual names or are we going to try out the clan ones tonight?

 

[Darkslash]

Maybe Conduit 2 will have splitscreen, or at LEAST lan. We can only pray.

The Grinder, HVS claims, will have split screen. The Conduit 2 might be released on Wii HD, solidifying Spilt screen.

Also any one think that The Conduit will go MMO? It would be interesting to see what a MAG version of the Conduit would be like. It would be a interesting concept. The Armies of the World would unite to take down Drudge and Ducaz and other Bio engineered Armies they have in city streets, while the Prometheus sect and the Trust do small scale urban CQC combat in facilities such as Cloning factories,genetic labs and bases of the respective fractions.

I want to see that happen. It would be massive and could attract a large "hardcore" fanbase.

 

[RDK]

Halloween Captain, you do realize you're wrong, right?

 

[M3D]

Wow THC... your attempts at defending your position, especially in your faux-intellectual tone, just don't stack up.

First of all, why would studying an already discovered AT necessarily help you win, but finding one of your own won't? Essentially, you are saying here that knowledge helps you win only if it helps you catch up with opponents, not when it gives you an original edge? That's are terrible argument. If it creates an edge in the first place, not only do you win in the short term while it spreads, you can also internalize (or "grok" as it is called in the world of game design) the concept and move on to new layers and other advancements while others are playing catch-up. Even if you grok concepts at a slower rate than more-talented people around you, that doesn't necessarily mean you've put yourself at a disadvantage.

Second, you make the false assumption that knowledge spreads evenly and nearly instantly. Even with the internet, new techniques and strategies do not necessarily spread quickly. Even when they do spread quickly, they NEVER spread evenly, meaning a certain percentage of your opponents will be behind you for much longer than others. You can also be selective with whom you share the information, bolstering the skills of the players in your clan. This means even if you don't apply the technique as quickly or as well as others, you still benefit from the discovery because you make your local unit stronger.

I probably shouldn't be surprised by your stance though, considering the stuff you strangely put into spoiler tags. You basically said you are interested in very shallow experiences so you can "have fun."

Really, your entire argument boils down to "Other people are probably better than you and/or your teammates, so it hurts you to extend the depth of the game." There is almost always someone out there better or potentially better than you are. That's why you work to overcome it, look for ATs and play with a clan. If those things aren't valuable or interesting to you, it doesn't mean that everyone out there is the same. If you are interested in being the best, or at least better than a large group, then its entirely worth it to discover new tricks and techniques. If you are looking for a shallow gaming experience, then just move on when the crowds surpass you, but that seems to apply to you, not to those of us that enjoy challenging ourselves to improve and competing.

To close:

Spoiler

Stop putting random things in spoilers. It's annoying and it serves no purpose

 

[Brawler1432]

Can't we leave it at that ATs are good for some players, but others don't care for it. As long as ATs exist in games there WILL be some players who use them and some who don't. I don't use them, but I don' care is others do. Unless they get infinite health and ammo, I don't care. I personally don't care if they have 1 extra shotgun slug, because in all of my shotgun experiences, I have never had to reload before killing someone or being killed by that person.

That doesn't apply to all ATs of course, and yes some are incredibly cheap, but you only have 2 choices, stick to the high road and don't use them, or use them. Nothing else is up to you. If a developer makes a game with ATs available, then you can't fix that, people WILL USE THEM. If a developer makes a game without ATs, and you are a strictly AT based player, then LIVE WITH IT, learn to play the game. Both sides are going to be somewhat miserable depending on the game.


Sure, some people use really cheap ATs, and they are n00bs, or they are ********, or they are idiots, but you may be happy to know that you have a 3rd choice as long as it isn't a super cheap AT: You play the game normally, and show them you don't need ATs to be good. Show them what they are hiding behind, and that will hit them, if it doesn't, ignore them, because you can ignore them with the knowledge that because of that blockheadedness they are going to miss big opportunities in their life.


As for AT users, if you are tired of being flamed for using them, you have two choices as well, deal with it, or stop using them. Some ATs make you a better player fairly, and that is fine, then you are justified.
But in the end, plenty of people aren't going to like you if you use them, so deal, or switch.


Personally, I suggest the AT users man up and play the game right. I never played Melee with wavedashing, and you can bet I knew how, and I even tried a few matches, but I wanted to beat them out of skill, not technical knowledge of a problem in the game. If they knew how to wavedash though, I would use it, but I wouldn't beat someone knowing I had the upper hand to begin with.

This Argument WILL never end, as long as ATs exist, people will use them, and people will not. The choice is ultimately up to you. Some take skill, and are deserved, some don't so it also depends on what games you are playing, and what ATs you are using.

I will make one final comment though: ATs do not improve a game ever, I have knowledge of all sorts of ATs, and none improve the game, all they do is force players to cheat the game to win.
If the game implements cool features, great, but ATs aren't needed, ever. When developers add things, that is depth, a glich is not depth.

 

[Faithkeeper]

Technical skill is part of the game. End of story. If you don't want to advance in that particular aspect of the game, that is your decision, but don't call those who do "cheap". They have simply deviled in to an area of skill you have not. You may prefer not to, for various reasons, but please don't use your lack of technical skill as a "loser's limp" either, you only discredit yourself. On the other hand, be wary of putting yourself on a pedestal for being able to win with little technical skill, while you may be a better player, one's decision to use technical or not does not change the skill level of that player inherently, it simply offers them another area to progress in. Many choose this path because they wish to increase their skill, and are open to different aspects of playing the game; their use of the aforementioned technical skill in no way makes them inferior to a player at their same level who does not use technical skill. Their skills are merely in different areas, not different levels. It is my sincere hope that I may be able to communicate to those, on both sides, that one's use of technical skill does not inherently make him or her better or worse, nor does it make him or her more or less honorable.

 

[Brawler1432]

Faith keeper, just so you know I use the word cheap to relate to people who don't like AT users. I keep my analasis neutral, as I try to relate to both sides, as you can see.


From a personal stand point, I agree with you mostly, but quite frankly that guy who has unlimited health and ammo, that should never be part for a multiplayer experience, please don't say he deserves to be unbeatable because of his technical skill, because he doesn't. End of story. It reakky depends on how easy the AT is to activate, and how much it affects your chances of winning, because som are cheap and some deserve to be used by those who can get them. But easily not all ATs are deserved, and fair.

 

[Stryks]

Not to offend whoever made the name, but frankly I'm not to keen with he clan name.
Every time I think about bureau i think of some french dish or something.

What happend to Smashers with Frags, that was a good name IMO.

 

[Faithkeeper]

From a personal stand point, I agree with you mostly, but quite frankly that guy who has unlimited health and ammo, that should never be part for a multiplayer experience, please don't say he deserves to be unbeatable because of his technical skill, because he doesn't.

Unlimited health and ammo sound like cheats or hacks, not ATs. If ATs are too powerful, they get banned. (ex: wobbleing)

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Halloween Captain, you do realize you're wrong, right?

Probably, but the way I think is slightly off.

I do understand though that the same people who love ATs must realize the fundamental problems with any game that uses exclusively online multiplayer. We'll need a hack to connect the wiis using a cable before the Conduit community can be taken seriously. Maybe it's a good project for the Brawl Plusers?

Technical skill is part of the game. End of story. If you don't want to advance in that particular aspect of the game, that is your decision, but don't call those who do "cheap". They have simply deviled in to an area of skill you have not. You may prefer not to, for various reasons, but please don't use your lack of technical skill as a "loser's limp" either, you only discredit yourself. On the other hand, be wary of putting yourself on a pedestal for being able to win with little technical skill, while you may be a better player, one's decision to use technical or not does not change the skill level of that player inherently, it simply offers them another area to progress in. Many choose this path because they wish to increase their skill, and are open to different aspects of playing the game; their use of the aforementioned technical skill in no way makes them inferior to a player at their same level who does not use technical skill. Their skills are merely in different areas, not different levels. It is my sincere hope that I may be able to communicate to those, on both sides, that one's use of technical skill does not inherently make him or her better or worse, nor does it make him or her more or less honorable.

Still hate ATs though. Any technical barrier to entry seems unnecesary - if the developers wanted a barrier, they would have programmed it in deliberately. Any AT seems like an attempt to bend the rules - the developer said X amount of time between shotgun shots, which we shorten to Y amount through a series of button presses the developer forgot to account for.

An ideal game could be mastered immediately, with no barriers except the players intelligence. Thus, the smartest player would always win, reguardless of practice or experience. I would say Chess, but that has some stee barriers itself. Ah well, too bad that won't happen.

I especially get annoyed at ATs utilized in online games. I thought Snaking in Mario Kart DS was a hack until I tried it and found out it was an exploit. The same goes for Super Jumping in Halo 2. If you guys are going to try this AT route on online games, be aware that you will be hated. Vehimently. The problem is it looks like cheating - I wouldn't be able to tell if you could shoot your shotgun twice as fast as me because of a hack or an AT, and would be inclined to think hack. That's just how online is.

Note: I don't think the same way as most people.

 

[RDK]

Probably, but the way I think is slightly off.

I do understand though that the same people who love ATs must realize the fundamental problems with any game that uses exclusively online multiplayer. We'll need a hack to connect the wiis using a cable before the Conduit community can be taken seriously.

Right. So I guess the online Halo and COD communities can't be taken seriously either.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Right. So I guess the online Halo and COD communities can't be taken seriously either.

Technically, no. They can't be taken too much more seriously than the online smash community. There is an incredibly easy AT that makes me lag so much it is impossible to hit me in team objective matches. I call this AT "Turning on the microwave". It's the most broken AT ever. And because of simple tricks like that posing as game breakers that you can't prove were utilized, online community matches are inherently suspect.

(EDIT: I fully support both their online and offline communities; however, both games always seem to have their official tournaments to be offline LAN(?) parties - both communities recognize that lag is in fact a game changer.)

/offtopic: Although on the issue of ATs in general, it's not really a concern of mine yet. The shotgun trick sounds simple enough to learn in a minute or two with only minor control scheme changes (down on d-pad melee, left on d-pad reload, B button trigger is the setup I'll go for.)

 

[Superstar]

I only wanted to quote this:

An ideal game could be mastered immediately, with no barriers except the players intelligence. Thus, the smartest player would always win, reguardless of practice or experience. I would say Chess, but that has some stee barriers itself. Ah well, too bad that won't happen.

You're saying ideal, but that's personal preference. The reason WHY this is personal preference is because you're forgetting that tech/experience is a type of skill as well. While you prefer a game that's strictly intellegence, others may like something that uses their hands more. And both of these take "skill", just in different ways.

Also, it doesn't work that way even in life. If you want to program, work as a carpenter, any "non-competitive" walk of life, you will need experience. Chess' main barrier is experience.

 

[RDK]

Technically, no. They can't be taken too much more seriously than the online smash community. There is an incredibly easy AT that makes me lag so much it is impossible to hit me in team objective matches. I call this AT "Turning on the microwave". It's the most broken AT ever. And because of simple tricks like that posing as game breakers that you can't prove were utilized, online community matches are inherently suspect.

You have a serious problem if you think it's okay to compare Wii online lag to XBL lag. Have you ever played an Xbox game online?

(EDIT: I fully support both their online and offline communities; however, both games always seem to have their official tournaments to be offline LAN(?) parties - both communities recognize that lag is in fact a game changer.)

Refer to my above statement. Fighters and FPS's are polar opposites. In fact, they couldn't be any more different.

And the fact that you think tournaments are only held offline is pretty telling. The Brawl community isn't the only community that holds tournaments, but unfortunately they are one of the only communities with an irreversibly ****ty online system.

offtopic: Although on the issue of ATs in general, it's not really a concern of mine yet. The shotgun trick sounds simple enough to learn in a minute or two with only minor control scheme changes (down on d-pad melee, left on d-pad reload, B button trigger is the setup I'll go for.)

In all honesty the shotgun trick isn't very practical. It's more trouble than it's worth, especially at higher levels of play.

 

[Lore]

In all honesty the shotgun trick isn't very practical. It's more trouble than it's worth, especially at higher levels of play.

To be honest, I don't use it much myself unless I really need to. It's still a useful trick to have at times.

 

[Stryks]

I use a slight variation of the shotgun AT (the one were you fire all of your rounds real fast? I use one that fires only two real fast) but yeah I don't use it that much myself, I rarely remember to do it in the middle of the battlefield, but I sometimes pull it off.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

You have a serious problem if you think it's okay to compare Wii online lag to XBL lag. Have you ever played an Xbox game online?

Of course. I'm a huge fan of Halo.

That said, my microwave can still do some damage to the game, as I use a wifi connection on my Xbox and my wii. I also had a wireless phone that would completely disconnect me from wifi, certain frequencies cause huge problems. Although the oddest thing is that I've gotten so used to lag that I often know how to hit players when my reticule is not actually pointed at them.

 

[Che_Lab]

ok so i was thinking about buying this game but
after reading some posts
is it true theres no offline multiplayer or splitscreen??

 

[comboking]

No offline multiplayer or splitscreen