The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[shanus]

Frogles, it seems like you tested characters quickly and then posted. Try and marios double uair again as an example (pretty sure luigi can double bair too) It is just tight frame windows

Also, I've spoken to multiple wolf mains and they are uncertain which would be more beneficial. A lower hitting fair plus a low hitting bair from a shorthop vs the AC fair.

Funinest thing about DK, I didn't change his gravity settings at all from Beta1. Also mixed reviews as to whats more beneficial.

I'll note the changes on Lucas.

Also, we can't incorporate jump speed until spunit fixes his codes.

 

[Spike222]

I agree with Frogles, it would be nice if Wolf can Keep his Cancel Fair if possible.

 

[goodoldganon]

I find that the AC F-air is overrated from it usefulness in vBrawl, much like DK's double B-air. The low hitting B-air makes for a safer approach and off the stage game in my eyes. Maybe I'm not the best Wolf player, but I'm finding the N-air to Reflector to be my AC F-air combo set up (of course that stays grounded where the F-air moved to aerial). Also, I'm getting better at baiting into the D-air which leads to some solid U-air combos. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I find the B-air's more solid approach options now to be more viable and useful then the AC F-air was for me in B+.

On the note of DK I just don't understand how throwing out the second hitbox is more beneficial then just having a single one that hits the whole cast. If the B-air is well placed it's virtually unpublishable as it is right now because of how quick it comes out and is used. Also, his D-air is good to throw in for low area combos, much like Falcon's new d-air with his new short hops. Basically, I find all of his aerials are serving a better purpose with his new height and gravities and I'd rather have the diversity they bring then just the Double B-air.


EDIT: I didn't get a lot of playtime with Beta2 as I did with Beta1, but have any Ganon mains had much luck against the cast in Beta2? I felt was always in an uphill battle with Ganon, making some matches more frustrating.

 

[The Cape]

I cant wait to try out Shanus's set tonight

 

[goodoldganon]

Snake's full hop N-air is back and I love it.

 

[shanus]

EDIT: I didn't get a lot of playtime with Beta2 as I did with Beta1, but have any Ganon mains had much luck against the cast in Beta2? I felt was always in an uphill battle with Ganon, making some matches more frustrating.

I think its partially a function of his SH height. We are trying to preserve thunderstorming, so we couldnt try and speed him up really at all. If we got rid of thunderstorming, lowered his short hop and up'd his FF a bit, i think it would let people do quick forward and retreating Fairs and short hop dairs without ACs which could work ok. Its hard to say really, he's really difficult to work with lol

 

[goodoldganon]

If we get into character tweaks I really feel just doubling the speed of the jab would help by leagues and bounds. He does well against slow or medium speed characters but any of the fast characters you might as well make a sandwich. Either way, if he can catch a fast character (since almost all of them fast fall too) he can juggle them like a pro so maybe that will just have to a tradeoff for him. Patiently waiting, shielding, and dodging for the exact right moment to wreck the fast guys.

Either way, it's off topic for this discussion. When this boring class ends I'm gonna go add the tech roll speed and see how it feels with this codeset. Hopefully aerial momentum is released this week and we can begin a whole nother set of balancing and gravity changes to test and tweak

 

[Frogles]

Frogles, it seems like you tested characters quickly and then posted. Try and marios double uair again as an example (pretty sure luigi can double bair too) It is just tight frame windows/QUOTE]

i tried them both at 1/4 multiple times before i concluded that they didn't work. i think the problem was the buffer code. i don't know why it wasn't working correctly.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Good news guys. I'll be showing off brawl+ in an upcoming tournament in Lexington ky on the 28th. I dont know of any big names other then maybe Overswarm, hopefully though ill get a very positive response. If anyone lives close to the area you should attend

 

[goodoldganon]

Kentucky you say? PM me an address and I'll see what I can do.

 

[peachfvl]

im advertising Brawl+ in my country in a general gaming forum and im updating it every time this thread is updated.

hopefully i will show it one of these days

 

[kupo15]

Good news guys. I'll be showing off brawl+ in an upcoming tournament in Lexington ky on the 28th. I dont know of any big names other then maybe Overswarm, hopefully though ill get a very positive response. If anyone lives close to the area you should attend

im advertising Brawl+ in my country in a general gaming forum and im updating it every time this thread is updated.

hopefully i will show it one of these days

sweet! I would recommend using mookies or mine for first timers. I don't think I need to explain why that might be better than the brawlpluserys set for first timers

 

[Shell]

I see what you're saying, Kupo, but I wouldn't lead anyone on with a bait and switch. Why show them something it's not?

I say give them the full Beta 2 treatment. It is what we want feedback on, after all.

 

[shanus]

Plus Beta2 is awesome and doesn't feel heavy like Beta1 did.

 

[Revven]

anyways i dont understand how DK is better like this. someone please explain to me how lower sh helps him instead of just disagreeing with me.

Dair is more useful for comboing than it was before, at least, for me. Nobody that I know that mains DK in vB EVER used Nair anyway, it was mostly Uair and double Bair. And of COURSE if you FF Uair in a short hop you'll get lag, you didn't before? I'm pretty sure you would in vB, unless, I'm just remembering wrong and just don't bother FFing Uair in vB (it's better to just SH it in vB, as you get no lag anyway). I've never found Nair useful in any situation in vB and B+ is no different.

As far as when I'm landing Bair > Utilt, usually when someone is dropping through a platform or when they're at low percents, hell, it even connects when they're at 50% and I can follow up with a Uair right after that and continue to follow their DI.

DK is not that terrible, honestly, you need to try him out against human players rather than going into training mode and just trying him. It's better to test in actual matches than just on CPUs or standing CPUs. >_>;

With shorter SH, DK also has Utilt > Utilt > Utilt > Dair > ??? (usually Usmash right after that if you follow their DI right) where he couldn't do that as easily before. Basically, Dair becomes more useful, which is what I've wanted back for him. Dair just sucks with his normal SH height.

 

[Shadic]

..Am I the only one that used DK's Nair then? I love that attack.

Anyways, I'm pretty happy with my results of playing. Ganondorf needs a recovery boost though, between his second jump and his Up-B, his recovery lacks any real horizontal ability.

 

[Frogles]

well actually I got over it shortly after I made the post lol. was a little quick to react. i just didn't bother editing my post x_o.

 

[Revven]

..Am I the only one that used DK's Nair then? I love that attack.

Yes, you are. Nair isn't too useful, and the only times it'll ever be useful are on tall characters (and even then, it's better to go for the Bair). You can't lead much from a Nair, jab kinda works but, Bair is best in most situations (at least as I found it lol).

 

[Shadic]

I think I'm still so used to stale moves, that I'd actually mix up my attacks. Also, it's fun fast-falling the move. Eh, the people I play against typically are pretty poor, so I'm allowed some style over substance.

 

[Foxy]

As we in NC are starting to host tournaments for B+ (having our second one soon), we wanted to look for a good and simple way to nerf MK, as he won the first tournament and is definitely the best in the game.

I saw this and thought that a great option would be to make him a major fastfaller, like Fox in Melee: that combined with his light-weight would make him susceptible to many extra combos and it would nerf his crazy recovery. This would be great as well because it mirrors Melee's balance of having some of the best characters in the game be fast-fallers, making them deadly but also risky.

If this has already been suggested, don't mind me, but if not, it would be awesome to try out and implement before the 21st (when the tournament is).

 

[Starscream]

Beta 2 is a big improvement over Beta 1 but I think I have to agree with Frogles about the buffer code. Yeah it works, but it seems inconsistent. If it isn't then, that's good. But maybe it should be looked into?

Also I still say that Hitlag 50% with breakpoint of 2 should be the way to go for hitlag. It's in Kupo's codeset. Try it, by far my favorite hitlag setting.

 

[Finns7]

That sounds right, also was it just flat out **** at the tourney....who was he facing.

 

[stingers]

As we in NC are starting to host tournaments for B+ (having our second one soon), we wanted to look for a good and simple way to nerf MK, as he won the first tournament and is definitely the best in the game.

I saw this and thought that a great option would be to make him a major fastfaller, like Fox in Melee: that combined with his light-weight would make him susceptible to many extra combos and it would nerf his crazy recovery. This would be great as well because it mirrors Melee's balance of having some of the best characters in the game be fast-fallers, making them deadly but also risky.

If this has already been suggested, don't mind me, but if not, it would be awesome to try out and implement before the 21st (when the tournament is).

This so **** hard

 

[hyperhopper]

DARN IT! I UPDATE IT AT 6 O CLOCK LAST NIGHT TO THIS CODESET AND THERE IS ANOTHER ONE!!?!

wtf why is my sig not working??!?!?!

 

[kupo15]

As we in NC are starting to host tournaments for B+ (having our second one soon), we wanted to look for a good and simple way to nerf MK, as he won the first tournament and is definitely the best in the game.

I saw this and thought that a great option would be to make him a major fastfaller, like Fox in Melee: that combined with his light-weight would make him susceptible to many extra combos and it would nerf his crazy recovery. This would be great as well because it mirrors Melee's balance of having some of the best characters in the game be fast-fallers, making them deadly but also risky.

If this has already been suggested, don't mind me, but if not, it would be awesome to try out and implement before the 21st (when the tournament is).

Beta 2 is a big improvement over Beta 1 but I think I have to agree with Frogles about the buffer code. Yeah it works, but it seems inconsistent. If it isn't then, that's good. But maybe it should be looked into?
I liked what your suggestions were in the NC thread. I forget what they were though
Also I still say that Hitlag 50% with breakpoint of 2 should be the way to go for hitlag. It's in Kupo's codeset. Try it, by far my favorite hitlag setting.

I actually like the hitlag in this better for the fact that fast attacks have like 0 hitlag...or so it feels. I doubt the break point even works.

Oh and foxy. You should join this because that is where we discuss the character specific nerfs and buffs.

 

[goodoldganon]

I put Cape's Ganondorf in your set and wanted to see how it felt.

Jump/Grav Values [29 Lines]
065A9200 000000DC
0025CB60 0114F440
0235CB60 0305E440
0435CB60 0524E440
0628AC80 0735CB60
0824C440 0928AC80
0A35CB60 0B24F440
0C35CB60 0D34C440
0E35CA60 0F06E440
1145CB60 1234C440
1328AC80 [U][B]14568440[/B][/U]
1535CA60 1634E440
1745CA60 1825CA60
1935CB60 1A35CA60
1B35CA60 1D45CA60
1E26E640 1F34F440
2034F440 2125CB60
2238CA60 2335CA60
2534E440 2944EA40
2C28AC80 2E35CB60
2F14ED40 3F4CCCCD
3F59999A 3F666666
3F733333 3F800000
3F833333 3F866666
3F89999A 3F8CCCCD
3F900000 3F933333
3F966666 3F99999A
3FA00000 3FA66666
3FB33333 00000000

Did I do it right?

 

[Starscream]

I actually like the hitlag in this better for the fact that fast attacks have like 0 hitlag...or so it feels. I doubt the break point even works.

I thought we don't want attacks to ever have 0 hitlag? The breakpoint does work. It works just like it did before we got the Hitlag code that affects both players. I didn't check what Beta 2's setting for hitlag was since I changed it right away but I know that Beta 1 had 50% + 1 frame and it totally sucked.

 

[Finns7]

After playing around with Link I feel that he has a tad bit too much gravity on him. Yoshi now has a grab release on him and im sure a hell of a lot more others now with theses changes. A grab release code is of the same importance as an air momentum in my book. The total lines I think are 185, and adding almas's upb boost makes it more so idk about that. I think he needs to have his gravity back at normal, or atleast give him a better upb (which takes up lines).

Isnt there away we can shorten the codeset?

 

[kupo15]

I thought we don't want attacks to ever have 0 hitlag? The breakpoint does work. It works just like it did before we got the Hitlag code that affects both players. I didn't check what Beta 2's setting for hitlag was since I changed it right away but I know that Beta 1 had 50% + 1 frame and it totally sucked.

Unless pits multi hit moves deals more than 1 hitlag to start with it doesn't work. Pits aerials are way too fast

 

[Almas]

1) Hitlag is currently set to (5x+11)/10 for the attacker and (5x+20)/10 for the defender. This is actually due to a typo. I'm glad to know you hated the last version of hitlag, which I'm fairly sure had the same amount.

2) The Up+B boosting code I posted was a beta. Much more importantly, it won't stack with the Grav Modifier code - whichever is later in the codeset will take effect, the other will do nothing. We're still discussing whether Link's Up+B needs boosting - I am under the belief that boosting his defense just turns him into a pseudoclone of Toon Link, when instead he can and should be modified to have his OWN strengths and weaknesses. Not every character should be able to return from off the map.

3) The Merger code will be removed once spunit's fixed codes are released, hopefully removing all the crash glitches associated with them. This will free up some more line space. Also important to note is the high chance that Gecko 2.0 will increase the line limit through .gpf files.

 

[Finns7]

Links recovery is still ****ty without grav codes on, this only makes it worse. I dont think the upb boost is a need if we remove his grav. Link falls fast as it is imo, and adding grav doesnt really make him more viable. He gains speed in some ways but it is uneeded, his sh and ff are enough to give him arieal options.

Link loses his sh dair of the stage
his ff nair
his ff fair

His bair is kool though but is not used as an edgeguard.

You may say Link doesnt need to beable to do these things, well I disagree. he has no other forms of edgurarding. YOU try and land his dtilt, ask any link pro how often they land it and they will laugh at you. Also we dont have our semi spike like in melee so upbing isnt an option. We have no moves (viable) with this grav setting not that the moves we had before this were the most viable either >_>.

Im going to test more but as of now I dont like how link feels.

 

[kupo15]

1) Hitlag is currently set to (5x+11)/10 for the attacker and (5x+20)/10 for the defender. This is actually due to a typo. I'm glad to know you hated the last version of hitlag, which I'm fairly sure had the same amount.

hmmm no wonder why. Im trying my 50% break 2 again

 

[leafgreen386]

YOU try and land his dtilt, ask any link pro how often they land it and they will laugh at you.

To be fair, that's in vB, where there is no such thing as NOT sweetspotting. However, I can very much understand your want to preserve his ability to run off the stage with aerials, and we should do something to allow him to keep that.

 

[Bowser King]

How's bowser in brawl+?

I haven't been able to test him because I'm busy but I wanted to know a rough idea on how good or bad he is.

-Bowser King

 

[Finns7]

Leaf I kno VB is comlpletely diff with asl, but the dtilt is not viable still, the hitbox is not like a normal spike. At the link boards we tried testing it. It turns out the best spot is actually behind him (like face the other direction and do it @_@ wtf).

either way I need to test the dtilt more and link more, I wish online wasnt so **** laggy.


^ The majority of the community sees Bowser as a >_> as of now. Personally I dont think that many (prob none at all) pro/semi pro bowsers have tried brawl+ to give an opinon.

Ok He gets ***** by combos, He cant combo as well as others, He can gimp and edguard good imo with the no asl, but he is a big target off the stage too, he is slow also, even with arieal lag reduction codes. Maybe bowser doesnt need to be good comboer, who knows maybe he has a secret tech...nvm, if you know bowser in and out bowswer king you should help in the testing.

 

[CountKaiser]

Let me get this straight.

The one line buffer code is inconsistent and we should use the other buffer code?

 

[Shell]

It is inconsistent, but does appear to work beyond just 1 frame. The longer one works only for 0 or 1 frames, but seems to be more consistent.

 

[shanus]

Just marking this post as the latest ones I've kept notes on for balance suggestions.

 

[grim mouser]

It is inconsistent, but does appear to work beyond just 1 frame. The longer one works only for 0 or 1 frames, but seems to be more consistent.

Does 1 line buffer mod work consistently at 1 frame?

 

[zxeon]

I like Fox's settings for the most part. CPU Fox Bair > Bair nearly instantly. it was really cool.