The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Stevo]

ok so question from a brawl+ newb.

when i use the beta 4.0 codes, I end up with like over 500 lines of code and only can use 256. I dont want to read almost 400 pages of this thread, so im wondering what some of them do, which ones to cut out, etc. In other words, what is being done to decide which codes to use in the end, and which ones are "test" codes.

 

[cAm8ooo]

ok so question from a brawl+ newb.

when i use the beta 4.0 codes, I end up with like over 500 lines of code and only can use 256. I dont want to read almost 400 pages of this thread, so im wondering what some of them do, which ones to cut out, etc. In other words, what is being done to decide which codes to use in the end, and which ones are "test" codes.

First off, there is a much newer and better version of brawl+ out. So go here

http://web.me.com/shane_mulligan/Brawl+_Nightly_Builds/Welcome.html

It also gives you instructions on what to do. Be noted tho, that we dont "decide" what codes to use cuz we dont have to follow that pesky code limit anymore. We now have plenty of room to do whatever we want.

edit: Here is a link to the gameconfig.exe that it says to use http://www.mediafire.com/shanus

 

[Saturnight]

Make MK unselectable on the Character Select Screen. Problem solved.

and delete all the nerfes that you have done
and make him only available throught random !
That would be epic, people would be encouraged with a reguard for being random :D!

 

[GHNeko]

Falco ***** by the way, he trounces Meta Knight, because of his sick projectile game and priority that rivals Meta Knight himself.

I'm not saying MK gets owned (except vs. Falco), but his chances of losing have balanced.

....O RLY. YOU REALLY THINK THAT HUH. OKAY THEN.

​

 

[Stevo]

First off, there is a much newer and better version of brawl+ out. So go here

http://web.me.com/shane_mulligan/Brawl+_Nightly_Builds/Welcome.html

It also gives you instructions on what to do. Be noted tho, that we dont "decide" what codes to use cuz we dont have to follow that pesky code limit anymore. We now have plenty of room to do whatever we want.

edit: Here is a link to the gameconfig.exe that it says to use http://www.mediafire.com/shanus

Thank you very much, that was helpful.

I didnt realise there was not a 256 limit on it now.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Thank you very much, that was helpful.

I didnt realise there was not a 256 limit on it now.

np


Also, about Metaknight. I love how he plays now. He's still good but i dont see him as being broken. I think we should currently keep with the nerfs he has now and see how they play out. Does anyone else think he's more fun to play? I personally like playin the ******* now. I feel like im actually working for my kills, which is a good feeling from playin MK

 

[GHNeko]

My issue with MK is how well he can STILL plank. Even with the lack of inviciframes. It doesnt matter because he has lagless edges. When Praxis and I played on FD, MK vs Mario, the only tool I had to deal with planking was fireballs and Praxis' HUMAN ERROR as that was the only thing that got him hit. Technically, I could simply do that until he has more damage than me and wait for him to approach, but that would just be really stupid imo as the problem should really be dealt with, and as posted in my previous post, certain characters cannot deal with planking in anyway. :/

 

[Sukai]

My issue with MK is how well he can STILL plank. Even with the lack of inviciframes. It doesnt matter because he has lagless edges. When Praxis and I played on FD, MK vs Mario, the only tool I had to deal with planking was fireballs and Praxis' HUMAN ERROR as that was the only thing that got him hit. Technically, I could simply do that until he has more damage than me and wait for him to approach, but that would just be really stupid imo as the problem should really be dealt with, and as posted in my previous post, certain characters cannot deal with planking in anyway. :/

Like Falco, huh?
Outside of that, Falco can still trounce him.
Limit the number of edgegrabs in a match, after that, just let Falco stand there.
Advantageous position my ***, planking should count as stalling as long as the opponent does not approach.

 

[GHNeko]

Like Falco, huh?
Outside of that, Falco can still trounce him.
Limit the number of edgegrabs in a match, after that, just let Falco stand there.
Advantageous position my ***, planking should count as stalling as long as the opponent does not approach.

And here in lies the issue with planking. By definition of the smash community, putting yourself in a place in which the opponent is incapable of reaching you is called stalling. As long as they can hit you, you're not stalling. :/

 

[_Yes!_]

Plum I didn't read your post because idc about what some random has to say, but nice try. Anyway, mk's priority is ridiculous, if something can be done about that, that'd be cool.

I forgot who said they were the all knowing wario main but thx for the assurance that his dthrow will get fixed.

 

[CT Chia]

We know about the CG, I happen to main Wario actually and was the first to know about it and tell people about it. We tried fixing it with the current codes at our disposal and it didn't just do anything. We need a throw modifier code to fix it, which we do not have at this current time, which means it is something you are going to have to put up with and just don't get grabbed against Wario when you're these 7-10 characters:

Falcon
Falco
Fox
Wolf*
Charizard*
DK*
Bowser
Snake
Sheik
Ganondorf

* - Indicates untested and not quite sure of yet but most likely given the traits of characters who get CG'd by Wario.

It'll get fixed when we have the code, right now, we do not so, don't get grabbed. People said that for DDD in vBrawl and people put up with that, you can put up with a 0%-42% CG on these characters until we get the code to fix it.

dont necessarily claim you were the first to find it out. theres a chance i was. w/e though, i didnt post about it on the boards lol

iv done some testing, but not extensively. i know however that charizard can barely be chain grabbed, it doesn't rly make sense. he should be able to like u said, but you might be able to get one chain on him if you get a dthrow between 0 and 10, thats it.

 

[iLink]

-Bowser Dtilt 1.5384616x winddown

Is this a joke or is there some logic behind all those numbers?

 

[Shell]

It probably matches the move up to a frame. Most of the more "round" multipliers like 1.2x or 0.8x etc usually leave the resultant number of frames somewhere between integrals. It's actually probably best to use more precise codes and keep the actual number of frames in mind.

 

[Revven]

dont necessarily claim you were the first to find it out. theres a chance i was. w/e though, i didnt post about it on the boards lol

iv done some testing, but not extensively. i know however that charizard can barely be chain grabbed, it doesn't rly make sense. he should be able to like u said, but you might be able to get one chain on him if you get a dthrow between 0 and 10, thats it.

Well, yeah I meant more about posting about it >.>;

I haven't played against Zard, Wolf, or DK with Wario which is why I am not sure if they can be CG'd (I am willing to bet Wolf can though). I have to look at it soon, it depends on if they end up close to him like the other characters do, if they don't then the CG doesn't work.

 

[Sukai]

And here in lies the issue with planking. By definition of the smash community, putting yourself in a place in which the opponent is incapable of reaching you is called stalling. As long as they can hit you, you're not stalling. :/

Then limit edge grabs, and let the noob Meta Knight have his fun, just stand there.
Good Game, victory by DQ.

Plum I didn't read your post because idc about what some random has to say, but nice try. Anyway, mk's priority is ridiculous, if something can be done about that, that'd be cool.

I forgot who said they were the all knowing wario main but thx for the assurance that his dthrow will get fixed.

Plum is considerably less random than you, he's a regular on the workshop and knows what's going on, he know what he's saying, brushing him off like he's some ignorant kid is worse than a stupid move as you've shown a great deal of immaturity by that, instead of defending your claim, you just basically give up and run.
I think you should listen to him, because unlike you, he knows that priority and throw values haven't been discovered yet.
Deal with it.

 

[_Yes!_]

Plum is considerably less random than you, he's a regular on the workshop and knows what's going on, he know what he's saying, brushing him off like he's some ignorant kid is worse than a stupid move as you've shown a great deal of immaturity by that, instead of defending your claim, you just basically give up and run.
I think you should listen to him, because unlike you, he knows that priority and throw values haven't been discovered yet.
Deal with it.

He might be right. I might be right. Of course I'm going to side with myself. I don't have the game or a wii, but I can see what goes on when I play. I think of things played out at the highest level, so whatever scenario I give is assuming the players are both intelligent.

I didn't read his post because I was tired, and I honestly don't care enough to argue with someone I don't even know (that goes for you too), so I'll drop it right now if you do.

 

[JCaesar]

Pissing contests all around!

<- Best Raphael main?

 

[shanus]

Raphael ditto incoming!

 

[Sudai]

Raphael ditto tournament? I want in on the Raphael dittos. > : (

 

[Yanoss1313]

awww, hell no! nightmare/Astaroth main right here!

 

[Sukai]

He might be right. I might be right. Of course I'm going to side with myself. I don't have the game or a wii, but I can see what goes on when I play. I think of things played out at the highest level, so whatever scenario I give is assuming the players are both intelligent.

I didn't read his post because I was tired, and I honestly don't care enough to argue with someone I don't even know (that goes for you too), so I'll drop it right now if you do.

If you don't like to debate with people you don't know, then why are you on a forum, a place where the said scenarios are anything but uncommon?
I was never trying to diss you, but just saying "I don't care, I'm right, you're wrong" is ignorant, because you close your realm of reasoning to the point where you'll never acknowledge someone else's point unless/until you lose all credibility to refuse it. Your analogy on "highest level" isn't very accurate, especially when you jump to conclusions like you did. You're basically saying that at the highest level of play, Meta Knight will render the entire cast hapless, as even with all the buffs/nerfs applied to other characters and himself, he'll have no issues 3 stocking everyone.
First, that's not even the case in normal Brawl. Yeah, Meta Knight is the walking texas ranger with wings, but even the best of players get taken down a stock or two as Meta Knight. Warios, ZSS, Diddy Kongs, Marths, Snakes, Game & Watches, and Lucarios are able to beat a Meta Knight, and yeah, I'm talking highest play level.
Second, you put absolutely no faith in the other characters and the players thereof. You just said Meta Knight can easily get through this and that doesn't help, do you really think the highest level of play is going to be like that?
You might need to reevaluate your vision of Brawl+'s highest level of play.
Third, this is a beta test, it's okay to lay emphasis on what traits will effect the metagame, but that's only for example, you make it sound like this version is the final cut.

It takes two to fight, I'm not arguing with you, was never my intention, but you bust up in here with your two cents, then say you don't care what others say, it doesn't work like that dude, I'm sorry.
Hate to be so blunt, but if you have the balls to speak, you should have the balls to listen.

 

[GHNeko]

...Didn't he drop it? Why are you still going? Stop it.

 

[grim mouser]

awww, hell no! nightmare/Astaroth main right here!

Nightmare FTW.

Is Wolf's shine now set KB? I haven't really noticed any KB growth in my tests, but I might just be looking over it.

 

[GHNeko]

Wolf has set KB.

I think that Wolf's shine needs to have reduced damage because of how useful it is now.

 

[GPDP]

Glad to see the Falcon/Ganon DownB fix made it in after all. Ganon is so much better offstage with this.

 

[goodoldganon]

Glad to see the Falcon/Ganon DownB fix made it in after all. Ganon is so much better offstage with this.

It's not official, it's just being tested.

 

[shanus]

We need more feedback on wolfs shine. Also for some reason we cant adjust the KBG on it.

 

[GHNeko]

We need more feedback on wolfs shine. Also for some reason we cant adjust the KBG on it.

I've given feedback. Reduce the damage out put, because 3% for something as good as his shine is too good. Make it 2%

Also, can you shrink the amount of inviciframes?

 

[Kuga]

I've given feedback. Reduce the damage out put, because 3% for something as good as his shine is too good. Make it 2%

Also, can you shrink the amount of inviciframes?

Agreed about Damage.

 

[Shell]

It's invincible frames 1-5, hits frame 6.

As far as I'm aware there's no way to change the invinciblity, since we'd need at least one normal frame to extend.

 

[Plum]

We need more feedback on wolfs shine. Also for some reason we cant adjust the KBG on it.

Of course I love it because it has so much use now, and it really suits Wolf very well. That said, I think there is going to be the complaint that the move is too useful now. It was amazing at getting Wolf out of any situation with its quick startup, nice range, and invincibility frames. Now it does all that plus set up for combos.

It isn't like the move needed a fix, it was already an amazingly useful move, so I think it comes down to whether or not it is too good as a move now.

From my time playing as Wolf I grew to love it. As a character Wolf is easy to combo, and easy to gimp, and his shine helps him so much. Great combo breaker regardless, but the setups he has really helps him be the offensive monster he needs to be with his recovery.

My first experience with Wolf was with the shine, and I went back and played without it and it felt like he was lacking. I'm assuming it is because I played with it first, but I love it. He doesn't necessarily need it to be a great defensive and offensive move, but I'm not thinking it is OP or anything.

 

[GHNeko]

Its not OP'd. It just needs a slight tune down. Lower the damage output, either reduce the invic frames or increase the startup/winddown.

Right now its almost Too Good.

 

[shanus]

Reducing invinc time Neko also means making the hitbox come out faster. I'll reduce the damage on it later, I wonder if I can give it knockback growth by changing the hitbox type.

 

[Sudai]

As it stand, I feel Wolf's shine is too good.

-5 frames of invincibility on start-up.
-Hit-box on frame 6.
-Breaks combos.
-Set knock back.
--Causes super easy low percent combos.
--Causes super easy kill set-ups.

I think one of four things should happen with Wolf's shine.

1) No set knock back.

Also for some reason we cant adjust the KBG on it.

Therein lies the problem with option 1.

2) Get rid of invincibility.

As far as I'm aware there's no way to change the invinciblity, since we'd need at least one normal frame to extend.

Again, this option is fairly shot.

3) Return to normal.

This is probably the best option until we can get rid of invincibility or give it true KBG. It'll still be the great combo breaker it already is and it'll set up for tech chasing. Setting up for a tech chase puts Wolf at a pretty decent advantage already and it adds depth to Wolf's game.

4) Keep the upwards KB but increase the BKB to the point that they can no longer true combo out of it on the average faller.

This is similar to option three but there will possibly be true combos against Fast Fallers and it will set everyone else up for a kind of aerial tech chase. People with quick DAirs can DAir out of it, some characters will be able to DJ out of it, others will have to air dodge through it. Basically it'd give Wolf an easy way to get people above him and potentially still be able to combo out of it on FFs.

 

[Plum]

The BKB on it is the only issue, I will agree there.
Shanus mentioned an idea to change the attackID which may allow KGB to be added, which would fix it.
I don't want to see it go, but I definitely see why the BKB is too good.

What about an angle change so it still sets up for combos with poor DI? Doesn't have to be 90 degrees. An angle change, maybe tweak the BKB and turn it into a move that can combo with poor DI and floatier characters may be able to get away entirely which turns it more into the combo breaker only against them.

 

[GPDP]

Is it just me, or were Marth's dgrav and FF speed increased?

If so, why weren't his jump launch power and overall gravity increased as well? The way Marth feels now, he's floaty on the way up, and heavier on the way down. If you're gonna go with this, make it so he peaks fast as well. Kinda like Melee Marth.

Edit: Maybe I'm just imagining things. Nevertheless, I still think Marth feels too floaty on the way up.

 

[leafgreen386]

Is it just me, or were Marth's dgrav and FF speed increased?

If so, why weren't his jump launch power and overall gravity increased as well? The way Marth feels now, he's floaty on the way up, and heavier on the way down. If you're gonna go with this, make it so he peaks fast as well. Kinda like Melee Marth.

Edit: Maybe I'm just imagining things. Nevertheless, I still think Marth feels too floaty on the way up.

I think all the characters feel too floaty on the way up, actually. It's because most characters have relatively high dgrav and just a tiny little bit of fgrav (which also contributes to their dgrav in a multiplicative manner, so a character with 1.15 dgrav and 1.05 fgrav actually has 1.2075 dgrav and 1.05 ugrav). In reality, a character's gravity should be made up of primarily fgrav, with only a little bit of dgrav.

Although you are indeed imagining things, as marth has not been changed.

4) Keep the upwards KB but increase the BKB to the point that they can no longer true combo out of it on the average faller.

This is similar to option three but there will possibly be true combos against Fast Fallers and it will set everyone else up for a kind of aerial tech chase. People with quick DAirs can DAir out of it, some characters will be able to DJ out of it, others will have to air dodge through it. Basically it'd give Wolf an easy way to get people above him and potentially still be able to combo out of it on FFs.

I like the idea of making it into an any percent kill move you can combo into, too.

On a more serious note, we are looking into seeing if it's possible to make it respond to growth, which would be a more ideal way to implement it. Although I'm still not convinced that this breaks wolf in its current state.

 

[GPDP]

I think all the characters feel too floaty on the way up, actually. It's because most characters have relatively high dgrav and just a tiny little bit of fgrav (which also contributes to their dgrav in a multiplicative manner, so a character with 1.15 dgrav and 1.05 fgrav actually has 1.2075 dgrav and 1.05 ugrav). In reality, a character's gravity should be made up of primarily fgrav, with only a little bit of dgrav.

Any reason why this is the case? Would speeding up jumps for some characters break some kind of balance? Or is it just a case of the BR being of a conservative mindset and not wanting to change things that aren't necessarily broken?

Kupo, IMO, has the right idea for the most part. The fall speeds are pretty good across the board, but the jumps have not been tweaked enough to make them faster. At the risk of invoking the whole "melee 2.0" shtick, just compare Marth as he currently is in Brawl+ to how he feels in Melee. His jumps appear to peak faster. It's also easier to, say, shffl his nair because of this. In Brawl+, it feels like I have to wait forever for me to fast-fall it.

 

[leafgreen386]

Any reason why this is the case? Would speeding up jumps for some characters break some kind of balance? Or is it just a case of the BR being of a conservative mindset and not wanting to change things that aren't necessarily broken?

Kupo, IMO, has the right idea for the most part. The fall speeds are pretty good across the board, but the jumps have not been tweaked enough to make them faster. At the risk of invoking the whole "melee 2.0" shtick, just compare Marth as he currently is in Brawl+ to how he feels in Melee. His jumps appear to peak faster. It's also easier to, say, shffl his nair because of this. In Brawl+, it feels like I have to wait forever for me to fast-fall it.

Actually, the reason the jump/grav values are the way they are now is due to a lack of understanding of them when we first got the code, and a lack of urgency to change them now. We originally thought that dgrav should be the value that is primarily modded, due to an archaic belief that ugrav screws up jumps. Yes, it does screw up jumps... if you don't change the jumps to compensate properly.

I think kupo has the wrong idea, actually. While perhaps the game could use higher gravity for comboing purposes (as in... dgrav) while lowering the hitstun, the main thing that is slowing this game down is the lack of ugrav, which influences how fast you jump. Now, what kupo is right about is that we need to fix hitstun. Whether that be by using universal dgrav or by getting a character specific hitstun code, it needs to be done. I would like to see the speed handled by ugrav and the hitstun problem by character specific hitstun, and then take it from there.

 

[GPDP]

Yeah, I agree. ugrav and jump launch power both need to be increased. I've been saying this forever. Only then will the floatiness be gone from characters that should not be as floaty as they are.

IMO, this should be a priority. I don't see why no one talks about it anymore. We've been tweaking moves for a while now. Why not take a break from that and revisit character physics?