The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Blank Mauser]

I don't really like the idea of shield drop lag because it might change some tactics but wouldn't really help anything in regards to what moves you can actually punish. Things like Snake's grenade dropping and Sonic's shield canceling should be considered. Same with techchasing OOS with dash attacks.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

yea I think what I want is a longer duration of shield droppings.

 

[kupo15]

Honestly, I think it should be less shield stun, but longer shield drop, so that shield grab and jump OoS are the only real options to punish poorly spaced/timed aerial approaches.

...yes, like Melee. They had it right, what can I say? Right now some moves stun shields way too much, and other things are too easy to punish with a shield drop smash.

this. Too bad we can't use the frame speed mod

 

[_Yes!_]

i dont think we should **** shielding. you can't change's mk's upb glair? maybe give him start lag or something idk. it ***** too much...and no snake's shield drop nade already got ***** enough.

 

[Eaode]

MK's glair needs landing lag.

Has no one thought of this yet?

 

[JCaesar]

wait @ jc and yes..which codeset are you guys talking about?
also please explain difference between sheild stun and sheild drop so I can better understand what I want

I was talking about the 5-1 codeset, the latest one.

For everyone's reference:
Shield stun: The lag you get stuck in when an attack hits your shield and you can't do anything, even grab.
Shield drop: The lag you get when you just let your shield go normally. It was very short in vBrawl, and long in Melee, and is somewhere in the middle now, toward the shorter end. This lag does not apply to shieldgrabbing or jumping OOS, because you don't actually drop your shield to do these.

You couldn't shield drop -> punish anything in Melee, but shieldgrabbing and SH aerials OOS worked just fine for punishment. In vBrawl, and to a lesser extent in Brawl+, people rely on shield dropping to punish everything, and to do things like nade camp with Snake, and to dash cancel. But in Brawl+ you can dash cancel with crouch, so it's not as big of a deal for that aspect. Adding more shield drop lag would definitely change the way you have to play, and you would have to use more aerials OOS instead of shield drop -> ftilt or whatever, but I personally think that would be a good change.

 

[Plum]

MK's glair needs landing lag.

Has no one thought of this yet?

It is so easy to see coming that it really doesn't need any nerf IMO.

If he is gliding, then he HAS to use his glide attack when he gets to the ground no exceptions. It is easy to just shield and punish with a little practice.
The issue is more of his grounded Up B because it goes through anything, but again the predictability is key with it because although the invincibility frames on the ground allow it to essentially go through anything it is a fairly situational move because it gets easy to punish when you know what you are doing. Sidestep and shield the glide attack and punish, or really whatever.

I don't know how everyone feels, but IMO MK needs no more nerfs. He is easy to combo with his horrible aerial movement, and he is so light weight that he dies earlier. He also doesn't kill as early as in vBrawl outside of gimps. He has some great combo ability and he is easily among the best gimpers in the game, but the Brawl + physics already balance him out. He had flaws that couldn't be exploited in vBrawl but the tweaks to the physics have allowed characters to abuse his weakpoints such as no way of dealing with projectiles.

 

[Deleted member]

deadlands is finally ported to PAL. big credit to almas for help with this one.

check out the all new updated OP

 

[GHNeko]

It is so easy to see coming that it really doesn't need any nerf IMO.

If he is gliding, then he HAS to use his glide attack when he gets to the ground no exceptions. It is easy to just shield and punish with a little practice.
The issue is more of his grounded Up B because it goes through anything, but again the predictability is key with it because although the invincibility frames on the ground allow it to essentially go through anything it is a fairly situational move because it gets easy to punish when you know what you are doing. Sidestep and shield the glide attack and punish, or really whatever.

I don't know how everyone feels, but IMO MK needs no more nerfs. He is easy to combo with his horrible aerial movement, and he is so light weight that he dies earlier. He also doesn't kill as early as in vBrawl outside of gimps. He has some great combo ability and he is easily among the best gimpers in the game, but the Brawl + physics already balance him out. He had flaws that couldn't be exploited in vBrawl but the tweaks to the physics have allowed characters to abuse his weakpoints such as no way of dealing with projectiles.

He can still plank pretty well. Its easier to deal with, but its still worse than what could be done in Melee.

 

[JCaesar]

It is so easy to see coming that it really doesn't need any nerf IMO.

If he is gliding, then he HAS to use his glide attack when he gets to the ground no exceptions. It is easy to just shield and punish with a little practice..

wat? It has no lag (not reduced lag like every other aerial in the game). He can up-B again before you're even out of shield stun. It's not punishable at all if they do it right. You can only punish him if you avoid the glair entirely or you have a high priority multihit move that actually beats it, like Zelda's usmash.

 

[IC3R]

MK's Glair is too good X__X

Is it, dare I say........broken?

 

[GHNeko]

Not broken. Lol.

 

[IC3R]

lol I know, but it's still insanely good. Well, he doesn't really need any nerfs at the moment, so I suppose it's fine. I mean, we only have 300-something people in the Brawl+ community, so it's not like we're getting too much going.

I should start giving away free selling Brawl+ SD cards, complete with the Twilight Hack and Homebrew...

 

[Sudai]

I should start giving away free Brawl+ SD cards, complete with the Twilight Hack and Homebrew...

A friend of mine was selling them for $10 at a tournament. Basically paying the cost of the 1GB SD card it was on. Got a good number of people into it. Was pretty awesome. : )

 

[IC3R]

A friend of mine was selling them for $10 at a tournament. Basically paying the cost of the 1GB SD card it was on. Got a good number of people into it. Was pretty awesome. : )

Hmm...

*edits post*

Yeah, I don't know if advertising on Youtube has helped at all.

 

[GHNeko]

A friend of mine was selling them for $10 at a tournament. Basically paying the cost of the 1GB SD card it was on. Got a good number of people into it. Was pretty awesome. : )

That was UTD Zac, btw.


Also, MK planking. Still good. Needs to be dealt with imo.

 

[The MC Clusky]

That was UTD Zac, btw.


Also, MK planking. Still good. Needs to be dealt with imo.

Reduce the amount of invincibility you get from grabbing the ledge? Or are you referring to the UP B version for planking?

 

[JCaesar]

Make MK unselectable on the Character Select Screen. Problem solved.

 

[IC3R]

Reduce the amount of invincibility you get from grabbing the ledge? Or are you referring to the UP B version for planking?

I thought MK got a Uair nerf that took care of his normal planking tech?

How are you supposed to plank with Shuttle Loop? X__X

 

[GHNeko]

Reduce the amount of invincibility you get from grabbing the ledge? Or are you referring to the UP B version for planking?

Uair planking. MKs worst king of planking really. :/

Shuttle Loop Planking can be countered, esp with projectiles.

And there are barely any frames on the ledge at all, though. I suggest giving him ledge lag back LOL.

Make MK unselectable on the Character Select Screen. Problem solved.

I actually use MK in friendlies.

I thought MK got a Uair nerf that took care of his normal planking tech?

How are you supposed to plank with Shuttle Loop? X__X

Heard no such thing.

 

[IC3R]

Heard no such thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNZweI4yr3U <-- @ 0:54

 

[GHNeko]

That kills Uair combos. Though It's a start. :/

I'd probably take that over what he has now.

 

[kupo15]

MK's glair needs landing lag.

Has no one thought of this yet?

we can't I don't think. It auto cancels to the standing animation instead of in melee where there was a special landing animation

I was talking about the 5-1 codeset, the latest one.

For everyone's reference:
Shield stun: The lag you get stuck in when an attack hits your shield and you can't do anything, even grab.
Shield drop: The lag you get when you just let your shield go normally. It was very short in vBrawl, and long in Melee, and is somewhere in the middle now, toward the shorter end. This lag does not apply to shieldgrabbing or jumping OOS, because you don't actually drop your shield to do these.

You couldn't shield drop -> punish anything in Melee, but shieldgrabbing and SH aerials OOS worked just fine for punishment. In vBrawl, and to a lesser extent in Brawl+, people rely on shield dropping to punish everything, and to do things like nade camp with Snake, and to dash cancel. But in Brawl+ you can dash cancel with crouch, so it's not as big of a deal for that aspect. Adding more shield drop lag would definitely change the way you have to play, and you would have to use more aerials OOS instead of shield drop -> ftilt or whatever, but I personally think that would be a good change.

I think this would be a good change

 

[StarshipGroove]

It could be a good change as long as it excludes characters with bad OOS aerials and Yoshi.

 

[GHNeko]

...But in Melee, Tap Jump was Always on so you could do OOS Aerials with little issues. There are a plethora of people who have Tap Jump off, dare I say, more than people who leave it on.

OOS with tap jump off is worse than Tap Jump on, because you'd be attack frames later, and would be vulnerable longer, which is why characters like marth and mario were encouraged to leave tap jump on for their Up B OOS.

...Right?

 

[IC3R]

It could be a good change as long as it excludes characters with bad OOS aerials and Yoshi.

Meaning.....Link and Snake?

10ninjas

 

[goodoldganon]

It would hurt the balance we have been striving for. For example, what are Yoshi, Snake, and Link going to do if they can't use their OOS options. Don't attack shields so recklessly and use your moves wisely and you won't get wrecked by OoS options.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

It would hurt the balance we have been striving for. For example, what are Yoshi, Snake, and Link going to do if they can't use their OOS options. Don't attack shields so recklessly and use your moves wisely and you won't get wrecked by OoS options.

go play vbrawl.

 

[IC3R]

go play vbrawl.

Here comes the flame war............

get ***** vbrawl

 

[JCaesar]

...But in Melee, Tap Jump was Always on so you could do OOS Aerials with little issues. There are a plethora of people who have Tap Jump off, dare I say, more than people who leave it on.

OOS with tap jump off is worse than Tap Jump on, because you'd be attack frames later, and would be vulnerable longer, which is why characters like marth and mario were encouraged to leave tap jump on for their Up B OOS.

...Right?

You can jump OOS with X/Y, right? And then do an aerial with control stick + A, which is right next to X/Y, and is easy to do quickly, especially with buffer.

Besides, it's a tradeoff. Even in vBrawl, Marth players know they need to leave tapjump on if they want to be able to up-B OOS. It's each individual player's choice. If they have a harder time doing aerials OOS with tapjump off, then they have to make that choice, just like they have to make the choice of what buffer to use. There is no best or worst, just individual preference.

And every character could still shieldgrab without lag. The only character who would really get screwed over by this is Yoshi (he still can't jump OOS, right? I never use him in Brawl), but he had the same problem in Melee, and in Brawl+ we could give him buffs in other areas to make up for it.

It would hurt the balance we have been striving for. For example, what are Yoshi, Snake, and Link going to do if they can't use their OOS options. Don't attack shields so recklessly and use your moves wisely and you won't get wrecked by OoS options.

Right now it's so easy to punish OOS in B+ that it has a vBrawl feel that I don't particularly like. It's just a suggestion though. I'm not gonna whine about it if it stays the way it is.

 

[IC3R]

You can jump OOS with X/Y, right? And then do an aerial with control stick + A, which is right next to X/Y, and is easy to do quickly, especially with buffer.

I don't recall being able to do this...

Besides, it's a tradeoff. Even in vBrawl, Marth players know they need to leave tapjump on if they want to be able to up-B OOS. It's each individual player's choice. If they have a harder time doing aerials OOS with tapjump off, then they have to make that choice, just like they have to make the choice of what buffer to use. There is no best or worst, just individual preference.

Most of my charcters have crappy OoS options, so no tap jump for me.

And every character could still shieldgrab without lag. The only character who would really get screwed over by this is Yoshi (he still can't jump OOS, right? I never use him in Brawl), but he had the same problem in Melee, and in Brawl+ we could give him buffs in other areas to make up for it.

Yeah, even with the few buffs he's gotten, Yoshi is still garbage...

Right now it's so easy to punish OoS in B+ that it has a vBrawl feel that I don't particularly like. It's just a suggestion though. I'm not gonna whine about it if it stays the way it is.

10blarghs

 

[goodoldganon]

Right now it's so easy to punish OOS in B+ that it has a vBrawl feel that I don't particularly like. It's just a suggestion though. I'm not gonna whine about it if it stays the way it is.

I agree that punishing OoS is very strong but everyone does have at least a few safe moves. We have to be careful about how we 'fix' this. (Fix meaning I don't think it's a problem) Some characters don't have options if we go about about with your proposed fix. I mean ya, Snake could probably stay usable but Yoshi and Link would fall...hard! Right now it requires you to make perfect and very smart approaches to break a shield camper but it is doable and when you do you are heavily rewarded.

If people can come up with reasonable suggestions that keeps the cast balanced, I'll listen but one of the major points of Brawl+ is too keep everyone viable and right now we are **** close.

 

[kupo15]

It would hurt the balance we have been striving for. For example, what are Yoshi, Snake, and Link going to do if they can't use their OOS options. Don't attack shields so recklessly and use your moves wisely and you won't get wrecked by OoS options.

I don't see how it would do that. The OOS options are still there. The only person that should be exempt from this obviously is Yoshi because he has no OOS options and its actually been implemented for quite some time. In fact, for all characters, having more confidence and safety to attack the shield would do much more for those characters anyway.

And every character could still shieldgrab without lag. The only character who would really get screwed over by this is Yoshi (he still can't jump OOS, right? I never use him in Brawl), but he had the same problem in Melee, and in Brawl+ we could give him buffs in other areas to make up for it.

We already sped up his shield drop lag.

If people can come up with reasonable suggestions that keeps the cast balanced, I'll listen but one of the major points of Brawl+ is too keep everyone viable and right now we are **** close.

You make it sound like it would be so detrimental to the game!

 

[IC3R]

C'mon, throw modifiers.......

 

[Plum]

wat? It has no lag (not reduced lag like every other aerial in the game). He can up-B again before you're even out of shield stun. It's not punishable at all if they do it right. You can only punish him if you avoid the glair entirely or you have a high priority multihit move that actually beats it, like Zelda's usmash.

Should have specified perfect shielding then. Either way, it is so predictable because it is guaranteed to happen when he uses an Up B. Learning to perfect shield and grab him out of it or whatever your fastest option makes using Up B more dangerous to MK than you.

I don't like the Uair nerf, because it hurts his combo game. In an attempt to take away one aspect it ends up taking away more than necessary. Some are going to sit and complain about how broken he still is and how that it hurts his combo game is a good thing. He really isn't at the same level in vBrawl and that is obvious. For all we know he isn't even the best character anymore, and even if he is it is by a much smaller margin. Outside of gimping it is hard to kill with him, he is easy to combo with his lack of mobility, he is light, and has trouble with projectiles. Learn to abuse that, and deal with the fact that he is still a good character.

Really, at this point I'm going to say that any nerf to MK is just unneeded. At the very least, let matchups develop before more changes happen to him. For all we know a counter already exists and the matchup just needs a little more looking into to find it.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

perfect shield reflecting. amirite?

 

[Me_Aludes]

That was UTD Zac, btw.


Also, MK planking. Still good. Needs to be dealt with imo.

What if you didn't get any inv frames when you regrab the edge without landing or getting hit?

Problem solved. No more planking, no more stupid advantages. Stalling the ledge may be not broken, but it's boring and stupidly easy and good, and I'd like to see it gone.

Could it work?

 

[Yanoss1313]

ok, i know this post is like 4 or 5 days late (i was away partying for my 21st) but i read people complaining about a change to fox's physics, some seemed to argue that it helps to increase his SHFF speed, while others argued that it made things like timing SHDL's way too tight, i think i may be able to offer a third option

would it be posable to use the older physics for him (slower rising speed) but write a custom code to alow him to FF slightly earlier, say 4 or 5 frames earlier? i think this would be a good solution to please both sides of that coin.

i'm a fox main(of course) that places fairly well in my local tournemans, (sadly no B+ tournies), but yea, i've often ended up in the top 11 or so, (not bad for 70+ attendees) lol, *shrugs*

anyway, feedback on my idea would be greatly aprechiated.

 

[GHNeko]

What if you didn't get any inv frames when you regrab the edge without landing or getting hit?

Problem solved. No more planking, no more stupid advantages. Stalling the ledge may be not broken, but it's boring and stupidly easy and good, and I'd like to see it gone.

Could it work?

Then the ledge would be a very bad thing for MK. Because as soon as he lands on the ledge, he can get hit. LOL.

 

[Me_Aludes]

Then the ledge would be a very bad thing for MK. Because as soon as he lands on the ledge, he can get hit. LOL.

No. You have inv. frames if you grab the ledge once. Then if you drop it and grab it again, you'll have no inv. frames. If you get hit or land and grab it again, you'll have your inv. frames back.

This doesn't hurt recoveries and kills planking. Where's the problem?