5ive
Smash Champion
Yeah, they don't work. : /
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The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April
- Thread starter Almas
- Start date
- Status
Revven
FrankerZ
No way... wait, which part of the hitbox did you hit with? The reverse box or the first, stronger hitbox?
Uthrow... to Dair, with Diddy Kong? Working? lolwut. Diddy Kong can't Uthrow > Dair, that's gotta be some BAD DI right there...
Secondly, leaf has posted how hitstun works A LOT already, if you want to know, PM him.
We know, it's some kind of bug with Paprika_Killer's new codes. I haven't had it happen yet but, please do just reload the game as I'm sure it will start working with no freezes at some point.
Caleb Wolfbrand
Smash Master
Falco's does work if the opponent DI's away and doesn't get hit by the lasers. Not usually a kill move but still. Bair is preferable. Or shine-bair/dair if you're fast.
I was *****ing about Zelda's dthrow to myself till I realized I had to DI the other way.
Sudai
Stuff here
I didn't mean straight UThrow > DAir, but I've seen some UThrow > some string of tipped/non-tipped UAirs combined with a platform > DAir in Marth vs Spacie fights. So nyeah~ 
Eaode
Smash Champion
If they DI behind you Uthrow to Dair works. If they DI in front of you, regrab or Utilt. if they DI the utilt back then Dair, if they DI it in front Utilt again or Uair -> Fsmash (Platforms help at higher %).
no matter what, someone's getting *****.
no matter what, someone's getting *****.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
wat ?
Sudai
Stuff here
Shush JCZ. I was trying to make a point. Haha.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Strong hitstun (2x multiplier) hasnt been tweaked for a long time. The weak hitstun was dropped by half a frame, meaning the overall change you'd see isn't much at all.
SketchHurricane
Smash Ace
I think some form of optional DJC should be at least experimented with. There's no reason not to make the code even if we don't use it (assuming we can even come up with something), since so many would like to see what it would be like anyway. There's always room for a little fun, an it might turn out legit enough for the official codeset anyway so it's not really time wasted.
As for shield breaks, personally I think it's a failed concept in Smash Bros. It's pretty much a guaranteed kill if it ever happens, but it never happens because there are only two characters in the game that even have a remote chance of sheild braking (Marth/Jiggz), and by "remote" I mean "never". In 64 you could do it way too much, so the reward was completely skewed. In Melee and Brawl it never happens, so the reward is moot. Personally I'd like to see shield braking re-worked for B+ as a legit tactic with a legit reward.
Make it pop you up with no chance of escape, but make it techable. This will result in a small window to combo or smash, without guaranteeing a fully charged smash. It will make you think fast to take advantage, and in weakening the break in this way we won't have to be so conservative with our changes to shield stun. This would bring bring the Smash shield break closer to the guard break system of other games: something that's not outlandish to see happen but is still impressive, especially when capitalized on. Less hitstun, more shield stun, I say. I might even take the Kupo route and make my own codeset to experiment with.
As for shield breaks, personally I think it's a failed concept in Smash Bros. It's pretty much a guaranteed kill if it ever happens, but it never happens because there are only two characters in the game that even have a remote chance of sheild braking (Marth/Jiggz), and by "remote" I mean "never". In 64 you could do it way too much, so the reward was completely skewed. In Melee and Brawl it never happens, so the reward is moot. Personally I'd like to see shield braking re-worked for B+ as a legit tactic with a legit reward.
Make it pop you up with no chance of escape, but make it techable. This will result in a small window to combo or smash, without guaranteeing a fully charged smash. It will make you think fast to take advantage, and in weakening the break in this way we won't have to be so conservative with our changes to shield stun. This would bring bring the Smash shield break closer to the guard break system of other games: something that's not outlandish to see happen but is still impressive, especially when capitalized on. Less hitstun, more shield stun, I say. I might even take the Kupo route and make my own codeset to experiment with.
MdrnDayMercutio
Smash Champion
DK Breaks shields fairly well in vBrawl, actually. So if you're gunna play with that does his new SH allow for Bair > SideB on shields still?
Having a character which specializes in shield breaking would be very unique in B+ if we can balance the shield break.
What about Jigglypuff? That would definitely be an interesting matchup. If Ness goes offstage, he's dead. If Jiggles blocks, she's gone.
What about Jigglypuff? That would definitely be an interesting matchup. If Ness goes offstage, he's dead. If Jiggles blocks, she's gone.
Shield breaking shouldn't happen. The objective of shield pressure strategies is not to break a person's shield, but rather force them into a mindset where any time they shield they risk near-certain death, making it harder for them to defend effectively. And they're perfectly good at that.
Shield breaks exist as a threat, not as something that should actually happen.
Shield breaks exist as a threat, not as something that should actually happen.
Revven
FrankerZ
It's still possible but there's a strict window for it, but, it isn't exactly hard. It's just slightly tighter because his SH is shorter. You have to do it as soon as your Bair ends but before you land on the ground, so it's tight in that sense.
Marth says Hi.
If you screw up bad enough to get hit by Shield Breaker after a bit of charging, yeah. But I would hardly call that a "specialization". xD
Mindgames, Conditioning, and Shield Stun form other attacks says Hi Hi.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
@ whoever asked
yea it was the forward part of knee. I remember going to silvens smashfest and using a codeset that had more sheild stun and I really liked that. it forced you to play agressive and defensive. but at the tourney it seemed everyone played more defensive in singles because sheild was perfectly safe, just like in vbrawl. I prefered the smashfest sheild stun rather than the tourneys sheild stun
yea it was the forward part of knee. I remember going to silvens smashfest and using a codeset that had more sheild stun and I really liked that. it forced you to play agressive and defensive. but at the tourney it seemed everyone played more defensive in singles because sheild was perfectly safe, just like in vbrawl. I prefered the smashfest sheild stun rather than the tourneys sheild stun
Laijin
Smash Hero
I have some really serious questions about Brawl+.
The developers of brawl+, how exactly did they go about in making mods for it? I know its via homebrew and such, but to mod an already existing Nintendo made game so much makes me wonder a lot. Did they obtain access the Smash Bros Brawl's source code? If so, does this mean they have FULL access to the Wii API? Meaning do they have access to the source code that makes the Wii-mote do its magic on wii games?
If so....I'm not a lawyer or anything, but is this RIDICULOUSLY illegal?
Nintendo has not released their Wii development kits out to the public. You must be an established game company before they'll even sell you one dev kit for like 2 grand.
I'd like to know how they went about modding it and if they do have access to the source code...can I get in on that?
If no one knows the answer to these, can someone point me in the right direction as to where I can find these answers?
The developers of brawl+, how exactly did they go about in making mods for it? I know its via homebrew and such, but to mod an already existing Nintendo made game so much makes me wonder a lot. Did they obtain access the Smash Bros Brawl's source code? If so, does this mean they have FULL access to the Wii API? Meaning do they have access to the source code that makes the Wii-mote do its magic on wii games?
If so....I'm not a lawyer or anything, but is this RIDICULOUSLY illegal?
Nintendo has not released their Wii development kits out to the public. You must be an established game company before they'll even sell you one dev kit for like 2 grand.
I'd like to know how they went about modding it and if they do have access to the source code...can I get in on that?
If no one knows the answer to these, can someone point me in the right direction as to where I can find these answers?
Laijin
Smash Hero
What?
Would you kindly explain how this works?
I'm really honestly trying to think about how that would possibly work.
Enough shieldstun to lead into a Shield Breaker? Which move does that? o.o
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
its not illegal unless you sell it to people I guess.
I've done DB 1 to SB before. Total lulz.
Also, shield takes longer to restore itself. So I've done simple shield pressure tactics to Charge SB mind games.
Personally i dont want there to be a combo into shieldstun. Even if we weaken it. I find the way shieldstun is implemented now to be perfectly fine nor do i believe the reward is too good. A shieldbreak is to punish those who defend too much but much like Almas said, it plays a bigger role by forcing your opponent to switch up their game and causes them to be more wary in defending and therefor creates more openings and mistakes.
It's not something that necessarily is supposed to happen but the thought that it can is good enough to affect a game. I think if you have your shield broken, you deserve a fully charged smash to the face.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
If you own a usb gecko, you can view the memory at any point in time during a game. Codes are written to modify values stored in the memory by loading the values from a different location (namely, where you're writing the code); the codes are injected into free space in the memory of the game on boot. No one has access to the actual source code or the dev kit that is making these codes or distributing them, and neither are necessary to begin with.I have some really serious questions about Brawl+.
The developers of brawl+, how exactly did they go about in making mods for it? I know its via homebrew and such, but to mod an already existing Nintendo made game so much makes me wonder a lot. Did they obtain access the Smash Bros Brawl's source code? If so, does this mean they have FULL access to the Wii API? Meaning do they have access to the source code that makes the Wii-mote do its magic on wii games?
If so....I'm not a lawyer or anything, but is this RIDICULOUSLY illegal?
Nintendo has not released their Wii development kits out to the public. You must be an established game company before they'll even sell you one dev kit for like 2 grand.
I'd like to know how they went about modding it and if they do have access to the source code...can I get in on that?
If no one knows the answer to these, can someone point me in the right direction as to where I can find these answers?
Laijin
Smash Hero
Like I said. I'm not a lawyer or anything, but if your able to obtain the source code of brawl, I'm quite thats illegal.
I just could'nt imagine them doing it any other way unless whomever is making the mods is some awesome complete beast at Assembly or something similar to that. As far as I know, you can't rip source code from a CD, but you can manipulate the values that are being sent in on the system(through the RAM I guess?). I just really don't understand how they are able to know wtf they are doing without looking at source code.
Edit: Thanks for the explanation Leafgreen. I still don't fully understand the concept of writing codes to modify values. Like how do you know what values belong to what? Cause I'm sure there are lots and lots of different values in memory that can mean literally anything. x__x
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
It can take a very long time for hackers to find the correct location in memory for something. It requires lots of searches and poking to find the right one.
Laijin
Smash Hero
so your saying they literally, by trial and error, discovered what memory locations do what in the game? And by finding that out, they are able to manipulate what is stored in those memory addresses through codes?
Do I have this correct?
The simplest example is this:
Say you're playing Super Mario Galaxy. At any given point in time, your health is being stored in the game's RAM. It has to be there, else the game wouldn't know what health you're on.
Gecko OS has a code handler which operates on top of the game's normal code. Every processor cycle, it executes instructions which make modifications to the RAM. In this case, I could write a code that is read by Gecko OS such that every processor cycle, the value for health in the game's RAM is set to max. As such, I'd never be able to lose health (or rather I would, but I'd regenerate it in less than a frame).
The example sounds simple, and it is, but it's surprising just how much can be modified. At any moment in time the game also has to store the compiled source code in the RAM, so that it can be executed. This means that we can also modify this code as we see fit. Clearly it gets very complicated, because the source is compiled. That means we're dealing with little more than 1s and 0s (although the program used to view the RAM is kind enough to tell us what it means in Assembly Code).
Of course, we have tricks to help us decipher it all. By comparing RAM Dumps, we can look for changes in the game's memory. The program used it kind enough to have a function that will compare two sets of data values, looking for ones which are different. For example, when I pick up a Bunny Hood, the values in memory which describe how high I can jump or how fast I can run get increased. When I pick up a Metal Box, the variable for how heavy I am increases. Once I find these values, I can then put a "breakpoint" on them, letting me see which part of the game's code changes them. From there, I can inject some code of my own - maybe I'll tell it that whenever it reads the value for jump height, it instead uses twice that value to do whatever it's going to do. The possibilities are very large.
Some example hex code from the game:
Its equivalent in assembly code:
I have no idea what that does. Heck, I don't even know what lhz means.
Say you're playing Super Mario Galaxy. At any given point in time, your health is being stored in the game's RAM. It has to be there, else the game wouldn't know what health you're on.
Gecko OS has a code handler which operates on top of the game's normal code. Every processor cycle, it executes instructions which make modifications to the RAM. In this case, I could write a code that is read by Gecko OS such that every processor cycle, the value for health in the game's RAM is set to max. As such, I'd never be able to lose health (or rather I would, but I'd regenerate it in less than a frame).
The example sounds simple, and it is, but it's surprising just how much can be modified. At any moment in time the game also has to store the compiled source code in the RAM, so that it can be executed. This means that we can also modify this code as we see fit. Clearly it gets very complicated, because the source is compiled. That means we're dealing with little more than 1s and 0s (although the program used to view the RAM is kind enough to tell us what it means in Assembly Code).
Of course, we have tricks to help us decipher it all. By comparing RAM Dumps, we can look for changes in the game's memory. The program used it kind enough to have a function that will compare two sets of data values, looking for ones which are different. For example, when I pick up a Bunny Hood, the values in memory which describe how high I can jump or how fast I can run get increased. When I pick up a Metal Box, the variable for how heavy I am increases. Once I find these values, I can then put a "breakpoint" on them, letting me see which part of the game's code changes them. From there, I can inject some code of my own - maybe I'll tell it that whenever it reads the value for jump height, it instead uses twice that value to do whatever it's going to do. The possibilities are very large.
Some example hex code from the game:
Code:
9004000C 48000024 80040010 2C000000 41820018 7C030214 90040010 4800000C 38600000 4E800020 80040004 38C60001 7C840214 A003000E 7C060000 4180FF18
Code:
stw r0,12(r4)
b 0x24
lwz r0,16(r4)
cmpwi r0,0
beq- 0x18
add r0,r3,r0
stw r0,16(r4)
b 0x0C
li r3,0
blr
lwz r0,4(r4)
addi r6,r6,1
add r4,r4,r0
lhz r0,14(r3)
cmpw r6,r0
blt+ 0xFFFFFF18Laijin
Smash Hero
Wow. Thats an awesome explaination.
I know a bit of intel assembly, so I can kinda read that assembly code. But theres like 29425 different kinds of assembly(huge exagerration), so I would'nt be able to read that 100%.
But it looks like what you guys are doing is extremely tedious and probably took a long time. I have a lot of respect for you guys. Good stuff, keep up the good work.
For those of you who care: lhz looks like some sort of operation and everything with an R in front of it looks like a Register, since it has a cmp right after it there is probably some sort of "if" check right after that in source code. and of course the hex values are memory addresses. the "
I know a bit of intel assembly, so I can kinda read that assembly code. But theres like 29425 different kinds of assembly(huge exagerration), so I would'nt be able to read that 100%.
But it looks like what you guys are doing is extremely tedious and probably took a long time. I have a lot of respect for you guys. Good stuff, keep up the good work.
For those of you who care: lhz looks like some sort of operation and everything with an R in front of it looks like a Register, since it has a cmp right after it there is probably some sort of "if" check right after that in source code. and of course the hex values are memory addresses. the "
D
Deleted member
Guest
last thing you said is correct. "lhz" is actually load half(word).
the wii runs on powerPC assembly if you care. (I find it not so hard to "read" but that's a hackers point of view)
the wii runs on powerPC assembly if you care. (I find it not so hard to "read" but that's a hackers point of view)
Laijin
Smash Hero
oh yea. now that you mention it I heard something about powerPC assembly on the Wii.
Assembly in general is just another programming language. Once you learn one language, picking up another isn't difficult at all.
Assembly in general is just another programming language. Once you learn one language, picking up another isn't difficult at all.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
A few things i hope to see in the next codeset is:
-More shield stun than what was provided in the 4/29 codeset
-Make all grab releases grounded(i understand there are no grab releases but this is just so that everything remains a little smoothed out)
-More shield stun than what was provided in the 4/29 codeset
-Make all grab releases grounded(i understand there are no grab releases but this is just so that everything remains a little smoothed out)
Revven
FrankerZ
There is plenty of shieldstun, it was only toned down a little bit, look at shanus's post.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
well I feel the 4/7 codeset I believe it is was the best in terms of sheild stun..if that were revived id really enjoy approaching my opponents more rather than fearing being sheild grab. not sure how the codes work exactly, but the 4/7 and 4/29 feel tons different.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
tone down shield stun enough so that mk cant spam upb glide attack on shield across fd. spam did that too me and i couldnt do shiz...
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Honestly, I think it should be less shield stun, but longer shield drop, so that shield grab and jump OoS are the only real options to punish poorly spaced/timed aerial approaches.
...yes, like Melee. They had it right, what can I say? Right now some moves stun shields way too much, and other things are too easy to punish with a shield drop smash.
...yes, like Melee. They had it right, what can I say? Right now some moves stun shields way too much, and other things are too easy to punish with a shield drop smash.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
wait @ jc and yes..which codeset are you guys talking about?
also please explain difference between sheild stun and sheild drop so I can better understand what I want
also please explain difference between sheild stun and sheild drop so I can better understand what I want
DaiAndOh
Smash Ace
IIRC, The time it takes for you to naturally put up and drop your shield is the shield drop. Shield stun is the amount of extra frames it takes to do this from a move.
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