The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[GHNeko]

Neko, trust us, the current DD ICs have is terrible for Nana as it doesn't work like it should. She has the same window as her vBrawl self so really, it limits her rather than helps desync them. While Popo DDs over to an opponent, Nana will be lagging behind from the turn around animation, which wouldn't be very good.

Fixing the current DD for them will help, it's not that they won't be able to desync anymore from it, as they likely will be able to still. It's just that in its current state it is VERY bad.

I mean, what do I know. I dont use ICs seriously. Its just that their current DD lets me do all sorts of desyncing. I'd be better at it if I actually played ICs. xD
​

 

[Plum]

I really hope there is a fix for Nana soon.

She doesn't get effected by the change in hitstun, shieldstun, and etc. which seems good when you first read it but it is horrible.

My first thought was "great, she is harder to combo then!" but she is even easier now. With things like ALR and faster fast falls and improvements to the combo game in general she is even easier to carry across the screen even without hitstun because she doesn't DI or anything. Giving her the hitstun and other codes wouldn't change how easy she is to kill but it would make forcing her away from Popo a little bit harder. As it stands she is very easy to desynch and kill because her physics are so different.

The dash dance is great for easy desynchs but it makes dancing useless in any situation where any other character could use it. You would still be able to desynch from it with a change, but it would just have to be back to a dash dance iceblock instead of just dancing as it is now.

 

[leafgreen386]

On fox's dair... if they're shielding your followup, you're just not hitting with the utilt quick enough. You should have 4-6 frames of error on the utilt, and 1-3 frames of error on dsmash (where floaties have more hitstun and ff'ers have less). With 2 buffering, that becomes 6-8 and 3-5 frames, respectively.

As for the fox physics, I'll have to play around with it more, since apparently people don't like a simple switching of dgrav and fgrav. It was done to speed up his shffl game, which felt extraordinarily slow for him. I'm not really sure why you say his nair felt like the only viable approach with the physics tweak, though. He can still do everything he could before from a sh - it just doesn't go as high and reaches its peak faster.

Also, with those physics, fox shdl isn't quite frame perfect, although it is close. I've gotten both sounded and soundless lasers for the second one, so I know there is at least one frame of error. I'll try and see if I can get a slightly bigger window next time I mess with the physics. I think somewhere between the old fox physics and the setting it was recently placed on will end up being ideal.

 

[Metatitan]

where can i get 4.1?

 

[sMexy-Blu]

http://web.me.com/shane_mulligan/Brawl+_Nightly_Builds/Welcome.html

kthx

 

[Blank Mauser]

Snake's Ftilt was awesome before, and didn't really need to be nerfed in this way. Damage and kb maybe, but the I think the KBG just keeps people locked in and doesn't pop people up anymore even at super high percents. Kind of disappointing. =\ You could already DI and Tech it, and Snake was hardly the same threat he used to be.

 

[_Yes!_]

On fox's dair... if they're shielding your followup, you're just not hitting with the utilt quick enough. You should have 4-6 frames of error on the utilt, and 1-3 frames of error on dsmash (where floaties have more hitstun and ff'ers have less). With 2 buffering, that becomes 6-8 and 3-5 frames, respectively.

As for the fox physics, I'll have to play around with it more, since apparently people don't like a simple switching of dgrav and fgrav. It was done to speed up his shffl game, which felt extraordinarily slow for him. I'm not really sure why you say his nair felt like the only viable approach with the physics tweak, though. He can still do everything he could before from a sh - it just doesn't go as high and reaches its peak faster.

Also, with those physics, fox shdl isn't quite frame perfect, although it is close. I've gotten both sounded and soundless lasers for the second one, so I know there is at least one frame of error. I'll try and see if I can get a slightly bigger window next time I mess with the physics. I think somewhere between the old fox physics and the setting it was recently placed on will end up being ideal.

I know how to use brawl+ fox quickly and efficiently. I've gotten 1st and 2nd at the two tournies I've been to with the likes of Ninjalink, AndyG, Chibo, Vex Kasrani, and Mew2king.

His dair was laggy. Please just leave his physics the way it was. He got combo'd enough at his original falling speed. Falling faster will only make it much worse. Essentially the change in physics and the dair lag sent him from high to mid tier IMO.

 

[GHNeko]

I've gotten 1st and 2nd at the two tournies I've been to with the likes of Ninjalink, AndyG, Chibo, Vex Kasrani, and Mew2king.

Link to tourney, and date of tourney, and what codeset was used at the tourney. LOL.

 

[shanus]

Link to tourney, and date of tourney, and what codeset was used at the tourney. LOL.

Its all out there. I told you Cowtipper, I'll have one online today of it fixed

 

[_Yes!_]

Link to tourney, and date of tourney, and what codeset was used at the tourney. LOL.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228984

I believe it was the 4.0 beta version of april 2nd

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231889

codeset of 4-25-09 version 4.1

 

[Blank Mauser]

Imo theres not much reason for these nerfs anyways. Some are negligible of course, but just kind of pointless. Kirby's Fsmash lag I am still against for one, and Marth damage nerfs.

 

[leafgreen386]

I know how to use brawl+ fox quickly and efficiently. I've gotten 1st and 2nd at the two tournies I've been to with the likes of Ninjalink, AndyG, Chibo, Vex Kasrani, and Mew2king.

His dair was laggy. Please just leave his physics the way it was. He got combo'd enough at his original falling speed. Falling faster will only make it much worse. Essentially the change in physics and the dair lag sent him from high to mid tier IMO.

His dair was set back to 50% ALR on the latest set. Sorry, forgot to mention it. Although he keeps the same frame advantage he had (as in... can combo into anything but usmash).

The new physics don't make him any more susceptible to combos, either. That's a common misconception. Fgrav and dgrav multiply together to give you your actual dgrav. If all you do is switch them, the dgrav you experience (which is what is used when you're hit) will be the same, but your ugrav will have been changed.

And I'm aware that fox can be played relatively fast, but it still felt like he was taking far too long to reach the peak of his sh with the old physics for how fast he fell once he did reach the peak. And you can't ff until you reach the peak of your jump, either, so don't tell me that ff'ing at the soonest time possible speeds it up. That's not the problem.

 

[_Yes!_]

His dair was set back to 50% ALR on the latest set. Sorry, forgot to mention it. Although he keeps the same frame advantage he had (as in... can combo into anything but usmash).

The new physics don't make him any more susceptible to combos, either. That's a common misconception. Fgrav and dgrav multiply together to give you your actual dgrav. If all you do is switch them, the dgrav you experience (which is what is used when you're hit) will be the same, but your ugrav will have been changed.

And I'm aware that fox can be played relatively fast, but it still felt like he was taking far too long to reach the peak of his sh with the old physics for how fast he fell once he did reach the peak. And you can't ff until you reach the peak of your jump, either, so don't tell me that ff'ing at the soonest time possible speeds it up. That's not the problem.

That's not for you to decide whether his physics are good or not. If the general fox player population says that it sucks then you should adhere to what the general public wants, since they play it as well, and there's more of them then there is of you. For Fox sake please return the original physics; I don't want to have to use two hands to shdl like I did in melee. Just time the fast fall instead of tailoring the character to YOUR needs.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

waaiiit fox can't combo into upsmash in b+ but he can in vbrawl? I don't play fox so it doesn't matter much to me, but that's lol-able

 

[Deleted member]

what's lol-able is snake's inability to full-hop onto the first platform on battlefield. he just doesn't make it

 

[leafgreen386]

That's not for you to decide whether his physics are good or not. If the general fox player population says that it sucks then you should adhere to what the general public wants, since they play it as well, and there's more of them then there is of you. For Fox sake please return the original physics; I don't want to have to use two hands to shdl like I did in melee. Just time the fast fall instead of tailoring the character to YOUR needs.

Hey, these physics changes are for testing. I think his physics could be better, so I'm messing around with them a bit. His physics aren't optimized right now imo, and I wanna change that. There are a lot of characters I can say play "perfectly" with their physics. Fox is not one of them. Granted, after playing a bit more with the dgrav/fgrav swap, I can see it has its flaws as well, so I'm gonna try and find a balance between the two that lets him keep what he could do from it, but still speeds up his jump overall, which I think is something everyone will be able to agree on.

waaiiit fox can't combo into upsmash in b+ but he can in vbrawl? I don't play fox so it doesn't matter much to me, but that's lol-able

Not from dair, anyway. Though he still has other ways to combo into it.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228984

I believe it was the 4.0 beta version of april 2nd

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231889

codeset of 4-25-09 version 4.1

lol nice bluff.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Snake's Ftilt was awesome before, and didn't really need to be nerfed in this way. Damage and kb maybe, but the I think the KBG just keeps people locked in and doesn't pop people up anymore even at super high percents. Kind of disappointing. =\ You could already DI and Tech it, and Snake was hardly the same threat he used to be.

Second. Snake's ftilt and utilt didn't need to get nerfed. Utilt already KOs 15% later due to the gravity. Also, Snake needs the ftilt for damage racking aginst floaties since his utilt and uair combos are not effective aginst said foes.

I mean, he needs SOMETHING unique to keep him decent since C4 recovery isn't viable anymore and Cypher grabs are an even bigger issue due to the gravity.

Without the tilts, he sucks.

 

[leafgreen386]

lol nice bluff.

Um... Yes! is cowtipper. >_>

That's no bluff.

 

[Revven]

Second. Snake's ftilt and utilt didn't need to get nerfed. Utilt already KOs 15% later due to the gravity. Also, Snake needs the ftilt for damage racking aginst floaties since his utilt and uair combos are not effective aginst said foes.

I mean, he needs SOMETHING unique to keep him decent since C4 recovery isn't viable anymore and Cypher grabs are an even bigger issue due to the gravity.

Without the tilts, he sucks.

Here's the issue.

We just wanted to nerf the damage they deal. And guess what happens when we do that? That greatly nerfs the KBG (knockback growth) to offset this issue, we had to bump up their KBG on BOTH tilts. I already knew Utilt couldn't kill as early as it could before. If you have someone to blame the damage nerf they have now on, it's me, as it was my idea, I stopped the others from nerfing the BKB (base knockback) as a result. You should be thankful to some extent.

The damage they deal before was quite nuts to be honest. We will buff them back up to their KB they had before if they are SO BAD now (by buffing the KBG). Damage is directly linked to KBG which is what I am explaining right now. It's not a direct nerf to the tilts, all we wanted to do was nerf the damage, when we found the above out, that's how their KBG got nerfed and we buffed it back up to compensate. If it is a BIG ISSUE, we'll buff it more.

 

[sandbags06]

In regards to Ness' recovery, is something like this possible:

Allow the PK thunder to travel through enemies, but change the properties of the move if the PK thunder hits an enemy.

Properties that would change upon PK Thunder passing through an enemy:

1. PK thunder does no damage after passing through, so it cannot score multiple hits like Lucas'

2. Can press B after the attack connects with an enemy to stop the attack (this would still allow Ness to juggle enemies with the attack)

3. If Ness hits himself with PK thunder after it passes through an enemy, the attack does practically no damage or knockback, or just make it so it does the same damage/knockback but make the move travel half/75% it's original distance.

I just remember reading some complaints about Ness' recovery a while back, so I tought I'd throw out some suggestions to make it less gimpable instead of just complaining about how terrible it is.

If these ideas are not possible to program into the game, well it's the thought that counts, right? And yes, I realize this would change the basic idea behind a move that Ness has had in all three Smash games, but if these changes aren't considered "broken" and are generally accepted by the community, maybe they could be put into a future version of Brawl+.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Understood. I'm thankful for the fact that B+ tourneys let you change your buffer. That solves a LOT of problems I had.

 

[Deleted member]

why would we want to remove the risk/reward factor of ness's recovery?? if you try to gimp ness it's very easy to get ko'd if you're not fast enough

 

[cman]

why would we want to remove the risk/reward factor of ness's recovery?? if you try to gimp ness it's very easy to get ko'd if you're not fast enough

My only real problem with his recovery is that projectiles cancel out his pk thunder (keep in mind that I am not talking about the pkt2, which is after the pk thunder hits ness). If a projectile hits his pk thunder, they cancel each other out, and ness goes into his free fall state. He doesn't even have a chance to try again. It is also relatively easy to hit because the pkt has a fixed trajectory for the a small, but abusable, period of time at the beginning. I think that ness should not go into free fall if his pkt is hit, in the same way that all other characters hit by a move get a chance to reuse their upb.

 

[CloneHat]

My only real problem with his recovery is that projectiles cancel out his pk thunder (keep in mind that I am not talking about the pkt2, which is after the pk thunder hits ness). If the other person hits his pk thunder, they cancel each other ouch, and ness goes into his free fall state. He doesn't even have a chance to try again. It is also relatively easy to hit because the pkt has a fixed trajectory for the a small, but abusable, period of time at the beginning. I think that ness should not go into free fall if his pkt is hit, in the same way that all other characters hit by a move get a chance to reuse their upb.

Yes.

Spoiler

10 char

 

[sandbags06]

My only real problem with his recovery is that projectiles cancel out his pk thunder (keep in mind that I am not talking about the pkt2, which is after the pk thunder hits ness). If the other person hits his pk thunder, they cancel each other ouch, and ness goes into his free fall state. He doesn't even have a chance to try again. It is also relatively easy to hit because the pkt has a fixed trajectory for the a small, but abusable, period of time at the beginning. I think that ness should not go into free fall if his pkt is hit, in the same way that all other characters hit by a move get a chance to reuse their upb.

Yeah, these are good solutions too, a bit more realistic as well. But the thing is, the reason other characters get another try to recover is because they take damage, Ness does not take any damage, so allowing him to get another try if someone hits his PK thunder goes against a standard that has been established in all three Smash games.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Why did Mew2king play Ike. Was he not taking it seriously or does he actually enjoy playin him?

 

[CountKaiser]

In the irc, he stated that he didn't choose other characters because that would screw up his game for said characters in regular brawl.

He then went on to state how playing brawl shiek screwed up his melee shiek.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Here's the issue.

We just wanted to nerf the damage they deal. And guess what happens when we do that? That greatly nerfs the KBG (knockback growth) to offset this issue, we had to bump up their KBG on BOTH tilts. I already knew Utilt couldn't kill as early as it could before. If you have someone to blame the damage nerf they have now on, it's me, as it was my idea, I stopped the others from nerfing the BKB (base knockback) as a result. You should be thankful to some extent.

The damage they deal before was quite nuts to be honest. We will buff them back up to their KB they had before if they are SO BAD now (by buffing the KBG). Damage is directly linked to KBG which is what I am explaining right now. It's not a direct nerf to the tilts, all we wanted to do was nerf the damage, when we found the above out, that's how their KBG got nerfed and we buffed it back up to compensate. If it is a BIG ISSUE, we'll buff it more.

Actually it was a direct nerf to the tilts. At least from the changelist, Snake's first Ftilt's KBG was lowered from 75 to 45. The damage on them is fine really. Snake's damage output makes him better than the other heavies, but I don't think the tilts need to be nerfed. If anything, heavy hitters like Ike could use more attention.

Didn't M2K want to play Ike since Brawl came out?

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Why did Mew2king play Ike. Was he not taking it seriously or does he actually enjoy playin him?

I've seen M2K play Ike in like Low tier tournaments too.

I guess he likes Ike.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Um... Yes! is cowtipper. >_>

That's no bluff.

even funnier, now I think of ch33s3. lol.

 

[Yingyay]

-So whats the final verdict for all the stages being frozen?
-Im diggin the way you guys in the backroom is listening to everyones moaning and groaning (incluidin my own lol) I just dont hope that you guys add the wrong ideas in the end release.

 

[_Yes!_]

even funnier, now I think of ch33s3. lol.

lmfao poor ch33s3 xD wes and d1 **** on him so much when i played him xD

*on topic*

Exactly what do you find wrong with fox's physics? I really think it's perfect the way it is. Most people aren't going to be too happy with the change. I like my easy shdl's

 

[Kuga]

Exactly what do you find wrong with fox's physics? I really think it's perfect the way it is. Most people aren't going to be too happy with the change. I like my easy shdl's

Well Cow,Fox Physics is Back,and his Dair change too,(a bit better).
Remember,More Knock Back=More Hit Stun.
Original BKB=40
Nerfed=32
Now=37
Well,thanks to leaf and the other poeple for the better ''nerf'' xD

 

[storm92]

I'm going to be one of the very few people here and say I fully support the Fox physics changes.
It makes him much faster and makes his game much "tighter", if you know what I mean.

My only qualm is the tough SHDL.

 

[Kuga]

Me too,i like the new Physics,but the SHDL is bad,really bad ._.

 

[leafgreen386]

Well Cow,Fox Physics is Back,and his Dair change too,(a bit better).
Remember,More Knock Back=More Hit Stun.
Original BKB=40
Nerfed=32
Now=37
Well,thanks to leaf and the other poeple for the better ''nerf'' xD

Er... actually, in its current state, that's a buff. It still connects everything, except now you don't need to worry about tripping at high percents. >_>

Shanus made that change on his own, and it's going to be reverted to the 32. The highest you can go on 50% ALR without opening up dair -> usmash is 32, which still gives you 6-8 frames of error for utilt (after counting a 2 frame buffer). Seriously, if your opponents are shielding the utilt, you just aren't doing it fast enough.

 

[Kuga]

I'll try and see if I can keep a bigger shdl window while still tightening up his jumps for the next one. I'll admit that the shdl timing is very strict now... probably too strict.


Er... actually, in its current state, that's a buff. It still connects everything, except now you don't need to worry about tripping at high percents. >_>

Shanus made that change on his own, and it's going to be reverted to the 32. The highest you can go on 50% ALR without opening up dair -> usmash is 32, which still gives you 6-8 frames of error for utilt (after counting a 2 frame buffer). Seriously, if your opponents are shielding the utilt, you just aren't doing it fast enough.

Well,why do not let his Dair to Usmash,besides,nobody is complain about this,i mean,WHO want to take off his Dair>Upsmash?
Just for now,and see if the people will complain about this,its Like,''Nerf Marth Over B!!!''
''No,this compensate his *** recovery''
Fox is Light,Fast Faller(this is good and bad)recovery ultrazomg gimplable,CGs(all DI able,but they are follow ups.)
I mean,Just for now,and lets see what happen =X

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Well,why do not let his Dair to Usmash,besides,nobody is complain about this,i mean,WHO want to take off his Dair>Upsmash?

i do. i play fox, and i think the dair -> upsmash is too easy.

 

[Kuga]

i do. i play fox, and i think the dair -> upsmash is too easy.

You mean,its too easy to punish,huh? o/

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