The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Yingyay]

Besides shouldnt we let the players decide wut stages is fine or not?
We dont have to turn them off and make them all flat.
YS was deemed bad then it wouldnt have been a counterpick this entire time

 

[Slipsystem13]

I think PS2 is ok, if you get rid of Air, Eletric and Ice, those get in the way of the real fighting other than that yeah it was a great stage and for an FFA was fun to play on. In regards to YI reconsider changing it, it's a good and fun stage while still being quite neutral. The fact of the matter is you guys are giving the stages titles, simply because a stage is borderline doesn't mean we are going to try and maintain it's title. The fact is once it comes down to Stage Striking you might as well just remove the titles and choose based on where you are best at.

 

[jokey665]

I think PS2 is ok, if you get rid of Air, Eletric and Ice, those get in the way of the real fighting other than that yeah it was a great stage and for an FFA was fun to play on. In regards to YI reconsider changing it, it's a good and fun stage while still being quite neutral. The fact of the matter is you guys are giving the stages titles, simply because a stage is borderline doesn't mean we are going to try and maintain it's title. The fact is once it comes down to Stage Striking you might as well just remove the titles and choose based on where you are best at.

Leaving just ground? No thanks. I like all the transformations you're calling to get rid of. Electric and Ice lead to awesome Glide-toss mindgames and combos, and I love the low gravity, I don't even have to up-b or jump to make it back on stage.

 

[IC3R]

Does this mean we're finished with character-specific tweaks, or what?

 

[Yingyay]

Does this mean we're finished with character-specific tweaks, or what?

I think they're close to being finished, just some thinkgs to tweak out.

 

[GHNeko]

That is until we get specific codes like stale damage.

 

[kupo15]

Besides shouldnt we let the players decide wut stages is fine or not?
We dont have to turn them off and make them all flat.
YS was deemed bad then it wouldnt have been a counterpick this entire time

Aren't we the players?

Does this mean we're finished with character-specific tweaks, or what?

Most likely not.

 

[Slipsystem13]

Leaving just ground? No thanks. I like all the transformations you're calling to get rid of. Electric and Ice lead to awesome Glide-toss mindgames and combos, and I love the low gravity, I don't even have to up-b or jump to make it back on stage.

I was referring to tournament play.... It's kinda screwy for certain characters, it mixes it up a nice bit which I like. I'm saying most tourney players don't and that's what I think they have the most problems with. Save for Electric I think all of the transformation are cool things and make you change your playstyle introducing life in to the repetitive and somewhat boring routine of Brawl and to a certain degree Brawl+. Electric on the other hand is a huge gimp to weak recoveries, which is bad. It messes around with playstyle in an anti competitive style.

 

[jokey665]

I was referring to tournament play.... It's kinda screwy for certain characters, it mixes it up a nice bit which I like. I'm saying most tourney players don't and that's what I think they have the most problems with. Save for Electric I think all of the transformation are cool things and make you change your playstyle introducing life in to the repetitive and somewhat boring routine of Brawl and to a certain degree Brawl+. Electric on the other hand is a huge gimp to weak recoveries, which is bad. It messes around with playstyle in an anti competitive style.

I was referring to it in a tournament sense of play. I counterpick PS2 relatively often in vBrawl tournaments.

 

[Starscream]

That's nice to hear, but can other people? Can you vouch for that?

Well if he can then they can too, just practice some more.

 

[metaXzero]

For some reason, I can't have Brawl+ and textures. Everytime I add textures, Brawl+ stops working and even after I take them away, it still won't work. Help?

 

[Slipsystem13]

I was referring to it in a tournament sense of play. I counterpick PS2 relatively often in vBrawl tournaments.

That's great for you... honestly I like PS2 and would CP just to throw people off when they are Neutral Stage only players, but If I ever have a character with a bad recovery I will not choose PS2 because of Electric killing my recovery. I really do like the stages and I must've given people the wrong ideas. I enjoy the stage but many people don't I was stating it in terms of what the general tournament audience feels should be gone.

 

[Revven]

I was referring to it in a tournament sense of play. I counterpick PS2 relatively often in vBrawl tournaments.

That's cause you're R.O.B...

PS1 we decided should be left alone and PS2 be the neutral Pokemon Stadium for the simple fact that most of the transformations just get in the way (DESPITE the fact that it is already a legal CP, I personally have never used it).

 

[jokey665]

That's cause you're R.O.B...

PS1 we decided should be left alone and PS2 be the neutral Pokemon Stadium for the simple fact that most of the transformations just get in the way (DESPITE the fact that it is already a legal CP, I personally have never used it).

I see how it is. Gang up on the robot. Everybody thinks we don't have emotions.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I don't really think you should touch valid counterpicks at all. We have enough neutrals as is.

If anything we should just be making banned stages into cp's, but not cp's into neutrals unless we could separate the neutral version from cp.

 

[Slipsystem13]

Banned are banned for a reason, I don't think there are ways to fix some of the insanity in place on the banned stages. Like how would you make 90m (or whatever), New Pork City and Hanenbow work as viable stages. They change the way everything works so much and are useless in many ways.

 

[GHNeko]

Big Blue is a CP now. Lul. PKMN 2 Frozen seem to generally fall into the favor of many.

 

[kupo15]

I don't really think you should touch valid counterpicks at all. We have enough neutrals as is.

If anything we should just be making banned stages into cp's, but not cp's into neutrals unless we could separate the neutral version from cp.

In my mind, the layout of the stage is what should make it a counterpick, not the fact that the stage attacks you to a tolerable degree. For example, my friend hates BF in melee and especially when he is falcon. This is a neutral stage but for him, its actually a CP stage against him because he has trouble with the platforms. So even though BF is a neutral stage, it acts like a counterpick depending on the player and character. This is how Yoshi's island should be I feel. The moving platform though is fine

But a counterpick stage in melee would be dreamland which has whispy woods blowing in the back which kinda acts like Yoshi's island except there isn't anything uncompetitive about that unlike the support ghosts which are random

 

[cobaltblue]

I believe the old stage thread here covered why most of the currently banned ones couldn't be fixed even with a freeze. I remember stages like Pit's were still bad simply because you could live a long time in the little cave it has.

 

[Slipsystem13]

Is there any way to use the current stage hazards, moving platforms etc. For our own stage building desires? If so maybe we could create, creative CP stages as well as move the current "Neutral" stages closer to the prefered neutrality

 

[metaXzero]

For some reason, I can't have Brawl+ and textures. Everytime I add textures, Brawl+ stops working and even after I take them away, it still won't work. Help?

...If their is another thread where I should ask, sorry.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Thats what I figured Slipsystem. Maybe even spawn items. Not to mention we can edit boundaries as well now.

 

[Slipsystem13]

That would be optimal, I think it would give a nice flare to the game. It isn't Brawl after all. It's Brawl+, it's unique and therefore I think we should balance the game according to the stages as well. Also though I think this should all be put in the backroom and stay there for a while. Maybe give us some little tweaks here and there but keep the big stuff on the inside. I'd rather play a well balanced game in a year than play a progressing game every day.

 

[CloneHat]

That would be optimal, I think it would give a nice flare to the game. It isn't Brawl after all. It's Brawl+, it's unique and therefore I think we should balance the game according to the stages as well. Also though I think this should all be put in the backroom and stay there for a while. Maybe give us some little tweaks here and there but keep the big stuff on the inside. I'd rather play a well balanced game in a year than play a progressing game every day.

o_0


lol


And it' a community project. Feedback is why it's good.

 

[Rudra]

I wonder if it is even possible to build stages in such a manner. I mean, sure, you can edit death boundaries and increase stage sizes, but can you actually build stages with elements from existing ones? It seems sort of unlikely, but the hackers have done some amazing things so far...but something like this looks as though it would take extensive coding to pinpoint all of these hazards and platforms and make them selectable/movable...

 

[Slipsystem13]

o_0


lol


And it' a community project. Feedback is why it's good.

My only reasoning for this is that as much as feedback is nice. It slows down the advancement a lot. For the greater good of the project it would be preferable to keep the stuff on the inside so that you can balance everything in relation to one another. As things stand right now if we tweak here and there we can end up throwing a balance of in the end. I like the way it's going right now I just worry that there might be a problem caused through the constant changing and tweaking.

 

[JCaesar]

The testing is really an integral part of the process. Who knows what we would end up with in the end without every little detail being tested along the way?

 

[HeroPenguin]

Has there been any progress on the investigation into tweaking individual stage hazard damage? I read upthread that someone thought it could be possible with the current codes.

 

[CloneHat]

My only reasoning for this is that as much as feedback is nice. It slows down the advancement a lot. For the greater good of the project it would be preferable to keep the stuff on the inside so that you can balance everything in relation to one another. As things stand right now if we tweak here and there we can end up throwing a balance of in the end. I like the way it's going right now I just worry that there might be a problem caused through the constant changing and tweaking.

You're the one who wants spawning stage items, not me.

 

[Slipsystem13]

Never said anything about stage items.. I said taking pieces of other stages and making them into a better stage. Someone else brought up the special items I honestly hate being a politician, I was not agreeing with item spawning I was agreeing with custom stages.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Whats wrong with using items to balance a stage?

Bumpers and hazards would be nice to stop camping in undesirable spots or save people from places with no ledges.

 

[Kuga]

Fox new Physics is good for me ^^

And about Dair again o/,what's the problem with Dair>Usmash,anyone was complain about this.Dair to Upsmash is natural in vBrawl,but Brawl+ its not,cuz the Momentum.
Most of the time the Fox player will use Dair with Dash,so he will go far away,but not too away for a Utilt. Come on Leaf,most of the time foxes use Usmash out of D Throw or Nair to Usmash,now with his New Physics,he combo better,but if he get grabed, \o/
He need Dair to guarante a Usmash at high %,and the move is prediclabe,so....its all or nothing.If you get it,you win,if you dont,Cya xD

That's my last post about this.Sorry for too much War =X

 

[Yingyay]

I hope that YS isnt being frozen.
Kinda seems biased if it is.
Fox is fine as is, i guess we all just had to get used to doing something else.

 

[leafgreen386]

Fox new Physics is good for me ^^

And about Dair again o/,what's the problem with Dair>Usmash,anyone was complain about this.Dair to Upsmash is natural in vBrawl,but Brawl+ its not,cuz the Momentum.
Most of the time the Fox player will use Dair with Dash,so he will go far away,but not too away for a Utilt. Come on Leaf,most of the time foxes use Usmash out of D Throw or Nair to Usmash,now with his New Physics,he combo better,but if he get grabed, \o/
He need Dair to guarante a Usmash at high %,and the move is prediclabe,so....its all or nothing.If you get it,you win,if you dont,Cya xD

That's my last post about this.Sorry for too much War =X

Wow, the physics changes on fox are so split lol. It seems people either love 'em or hate 'em.

As for dair... it isn't that hard to space yourself to be able to usmash afterward, really. The fact that utilt kills around 130 now means he DOES have a reliable kill move from his dair; it just doesn't work nearly as quickly as his usmash, which, really, is a pretty absurd move. You said it yourself: Fox has other ways to combo into usmash, so he really shouldn't miss the dair that much.

Oh, and you say that fox gets combo'd easier with the new physics. This isn't true. Since all I did was switch his dgrav and fgrav, which multiply together to give your actual dgrav, fox's susceptibility to combos remains unchanged. He simply rises faster because he has more ugrav now.

 

[Kuga]

Wow, the physics changes on fox are so split lol. It seems people either love 'em or hate 'em.

As for dair... it isn't that hard to space yourself to be able to usmash afterward, really. The fact that utilt kills around 130 now means he DOES have a reliable kill move from his dair; it just doesn't work nearly as quickly as his usmash, which, really, is a pretty absurd move. You said it yourself: Fox has other ways to combo into usmash, so he really shouldn't miss the dair that much.

Oh, and you say that fox gets combo'd easier with the new physics. This isn't true. Since all I did was switch his dgrav and fgrav, which multiply together to give your actual dgrav, fox's susceptibility to combos remains unchanged. He simply rises faster because he has more ugrav now.

Ok,i understand =X
Well,are you working on Fox Windsdown Bair?

 

[Shell]

In my experience, Full gravity has a much higher effect on KB trajectory than Down gravity. It really would make him much more comboable. I'm not completely certain of this, though -- if you have time, try a test with all down grav vs. all full grav and watch his KB trajectory carefully on each.

 

[leafgreen386]

In my experience, Full gravity has a much higher effect on KB trajectory than Down gravity. It really would make him much more comboable. I'm not completely certain of this, though -- if you have time, try a test with all down grav vs. all full grav and watch his KB trajectory carefully on each.

Interesting. I know that ugrav has absolutely no effect on kb, which was previously the main reason people thought that fgrav made you heavier than just dgrav did. I will test it, though I don't know why they would act differently unless fgrav is applied twice to the same system where dgrav is only applied once, which seems rather unlikely.

Ok,i understand =X
Well,are you working on Fox Windsdown Bair?

Until we get a fixed frame speed mod that's more memory efficient, frivolous changes like this are bottom priority. I will see about a slight bair winddown reduction once we are able to include more frame speed changes, though.

 

[XSilvenX]

Seriously guys? Messing with neutral stages now..?

Don't take the word "neutral" in neutral stage too seriously is all I'll say...

No stages are neutral, there will always be characters that can use a certain stage better. That's just how it's gonna be. In case you guys have no idea what I'm trying to say...LEAVE YOSHI'S ALONE!! *chris crockers it*

The argument you're making is that it saves people and messes up edgeguards... *_* O RLY?

I've been playing Brawl since it came out. And this has saved like....5 people in really dire situations. Most of the other situations that "ronnie" pops up is easily predictable. For the most part it usually works like this..

I smash someone away, they're coming back and *pop* "Ronnie" comes and they head for that platform instead of the ledge. All you have to do is defend that, it adds a little diversity to the gameplay and it gives some players hope. You think a neutral shouldn't do that...? At least not randomly (in comparison to the Yoshi's from Melee). For one thing, I do agree that neutral in the most used sense of the word should mean NOTHING random and FAIR to everyone (this goes for the swinging platform also if you wanna really dissect "neutral"). But for the SMASH definition of neutral, it just means "no stupid things on the stage that heavily interfere with the skill output of the players" Look at all the non neutral stages and you will see what I mean. For the most part, they either have very peculiar platforms that are distracting, they cater towards specific characters, or they have some damage element that HEAVILY interferes or controls the match, with the exemption of Halberd since the laser/cannon fail at tracking.

 

[_Yes!_]

Fox got way too nerfed in the latest version that's not yet released to the public.

SHDL needs to be frame perfect now?
Dair has ending lag that barely allows any combos?
Utilt (somewhat reasonable but still gay) doesn't combo as well?

I don't want to keep having to change my playstyle with every version. Change fox's falling speed back to the way it was at least.

 

[GuruKid]

Yeah, like I warned before, please don't recklessly homogenize the game further than it may already be. There's no real such thing as "Neutral" anyway; by the logic of many that posted lately, we should also remove FD's lip or take out Smashville's balloon, since those things may interfere with characters as well. It's simply impossible to create a "perfect stage"; just can't be done, and attempting so would just make stages boring.

The ghosts simply add diversity to the stage and unique edgeguarding/recovery methods while not being that hazardous (I've yet to see the ghost really screw someone over in a tournament or money match). Please, don't remove it.