The Brawl-Melee Debate: A Different View

[thumbswayup]

I'm glad I didn't look back at this thread until just now. One of the reasons I don't bash you noobs is because Yuna does it so well.

Ankoku, some of these people just will never understand logic. The idiocy in this thread is spectacular.

 

[Koga]

Ok, here's how it was, it was on FD.

Ike_____________________pit


when he had fully approached pit:


_____________________Ike_Pit



Ike Aethers


----in the air---------Ike Pit


______________________



Pit techs as soon as he hits the groudn, if you get caught in all the hits of aether, you're pulled down with the last hit, which you can tech on contact. So pit techs away, and now he's at the edge of FD


_____________________Ike__Pit[edge of stage]


Ike sees the tech and starts the Fsmash as soon as he hits the Groud=pit Death.

not that hard. Just cause you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it can't

and yeah, the pit player was no pro, but he knew what he was doing. You can't just decide that because something that you haven't seen work happens, that oh well they were bad players.

 

[illboyzeus]

less techs, less mindgames, it's that simple. if this game was made by sony we'd call it a bad rip-off, but it's nintendo so they get a pass I suppose...

 

[Yuna]

Koga, smart people don't do standing techs right in front of Ike, especially when it can be easily avoided.

Edit: I still call BS. Aether leaves Ike with a lot of cooldown. Likewise, the Fsmash has tons of startup frames. If Pit immediately teched anything, he should've been able to move (and shield) way before the Fsmash came out.

 

[FightCity]

I think Azen does something like the walk up/powershield approach at 2:50 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gzh-x5rPjM

I mean he still fairs over an arrow but he walks up and powershields to set the spacing for the fair.

This aether into fsmash thing I don't know anything about though.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Best. Thread. Ever.

Thank you, Alpha.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Koga, smart people don't do standing techs right in front of Ike, especially when it can be easily avoided.

Edit: I still call BS. Aether leaves Ike with a lot of cooldown. Likewise, the Fsmash has tons of startup frames. If Pit immediately teched anything, he should've been able to move (and shield) way before the Fsmash came out.

This.
I can't really imagine a Pit placing themself in such a position.

 

[Zankoku]

There really should be no chance for Ike to land an fsmash. If Pit teched before Ike landed, even with a roll-away tech, he should have enough time to fsmash Ike before Ike could fsmash him.

 

[memphischains]

This argument will never end. I just spent all mourning reading this **** thread, although I will say this one of the most intellegent things I have ever read on this forum since I even started lurking here, but this is starting to go nowhere.

This is a matter of opinion, and Brawl hasn't been out for very long. It also doesn't help kids with barely any knowledge are posting and defending their opinion, which means nothing because of the obvious.

If you do not like Brawl, play Melee, if you like Brawl better than Melee, play Brawl. There are no facts to base any of this on that makes is fisable.

It's confusing that this has been dragged out so long.

 

[Ryuker]

Wtf are you guys debating about? If that combo is viable.?He says it hit. The pit could have screwed up. Maybe he can avoid it but he just says it hit. You are judging the pit player on 1 manouvre how the **** can you even think about that. He techt the wrong way and got hit by a f-smash I don't see the problem here.
Let's say I did something to you for the first time which surprised you. I wouldn't say your a n00b because I hit you with it...

 

[Koga]

If you Tech near the edge you'll stop at the edge wheter your still in the teching animation or not.

and Ike and the victim fall at the same speed if you're hit by all of aether.

 

[Zankoku]

First of all, it isn't a viable combo because Ike takes nearly twice as long to land from Aether AND fsmash before Pit can do anything from a techroll. If anything, Pit stood there and took it like a masochist, for the loss.

Second of all, Ike falls faster than the victim. It's the whole reason why Aetherciding isn't actually a viable option.

 

[NES n00b]

It's probably the fear of the smash scene or at least Melee scene dying if people try to push Brawl too far as the main game to play in Smash.

Lots of game communities got hit hard by worse sequels. Tekken 4 was sorta junk so Tekken people went back to 3 and tag but lost lots of members in the process. SC 3 was bad enough to where pretty much everyone quit soul caliber all together. Smash got a huge scene cause lots of casuals started to want to become tourney players and it seems to be happening for Brawl, but when you get a bunch of new people wanting to play a sequel that doesn't seem as good as the prequel and most of the old (and somewhat new like me XD) community want to play Melee. There is a problem for at least Melee.

Believe me when I say I joined the Melee scene not only cause it looked fun, but I was also hoping it would help me get better in Brawl so I could compete better. Now, me and other people like Brawlpro who joined for this reason now find Brawl not that good. There must be something wrong if stuff like this happens. If the new Brawl community feels bored by not improving enough in Brawl (in Melee it was super obvious when you improved and you improved at a faster pace), that they will just quit all together. Most competitive people along with most people feel most motivated when they see themselves improve, and since there is only a small amount of concrete things to learn and the abstract part is the hardest to improve, I dunno if all of them will have the motivation to keep the Smash scene alive. =/

Edit: More posts before me ftl. I was talkiing about why this debate is going on then went to my concerns. Plus, people like to correct people who believe to be ignorant or wrong especially if you are voicing an opinion without much repcussions.

 

[Yuna]

Wtf are you guys debating about? If that combo is viable.?He says it hit. The pit could have screwed up. Maybe he can avoid it but he just says it hit. You are judging the pit player on 1 manouvre how the **** can you even think about that. He techt the wrong way and got hit by a f-smash I don't see the problem here.
Let's say I did something to you for the first time which surprised you. I wouldn't say your a n00b because I hit you with it...

He claims it's a combo (and you also just called it a combo). He's also saying that Pit teched the 2nd hit of Aether right away and then ate Ike's Fsmash.

I'm saying "You're lying" or "That Pit must've teched and then just stood there (not shielding)".

 

[FightCity]

I think his whole point with the Ike vs Pit's arrows scenario was to show that it's possible to overcome camping/projectile spam and that there can be great rewards when you do, even though it's a little difficult. The whole aether-fsmash scenario could be a bad recall, situational, or a result of the pressure Ike creates when he gets in on somebody and starts wailing.

 

[Zankoku]

It's only possible to overcome a clear disadvantage if the one holding the advantage is being an idiot. Spamming arrows until the Ike reaches you, utilts you, and Aethers you is about as smart as spamming arrows until a Luigi walks up and Flaming Punches you.

 

[kainzero]

All this theory fighting is making me dizzy.

I popped in Melee just the other day and wow. What a fun game.

I wish I was part of the Melee scene when it was strong. I'm playing against my bro and even though I was never that good and I can't combo or even begin to understand all this counter-DI talk everyone's having, it feels like there's so much to do and learn.

The TTT vs. T4 comparison is pretty spot on.

I guess I wouldn't have a problem if I read this conclusion:

If play does eventually stagnate years down the road as some predict, then levels will flatten and begin to fall, until then, Brawl is here to stay, you are living in denial by keeping this debate going any longer and creating an unnecessary schism in the community. You can keep playing Melee, but bashing Brawl is simply unproductive no matter which side of the fence you sit on. Melee has no online play and the community cannot support two games the way CounterStrike Source and 1.6 have split. Brawl is the future, it’s a great game, just play it for what it is, not based on Melee comparisons.

Hey what happened to "play what you like?" Why is it Melee's fault to not "unite the community" and sit down and have picnics under the sun and feed each other strawberries by hand?

The whole "community" thing is a myth. Writing long winded essays on messageboards for national consumption gets you nowhere. In every gaming scene I've been a part of and even in my un-related career, change happens locally. In regional threads or municipal districts.

If people wanna run Melee tournaments then let them, and let the players sort it out. If you got 3 people in a city who wanna play Melee and 3 people who wanna play Brawl, then leave it that way. Don't say that it's all the Melee players fault for not having 6 people in the Brawl tournament.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The problem is people are trying to run BRAWL tournaments, but often times, like with FC, the old Melee players come in and try and get the game switched. No one is advocating Melee tournaments to get switched to Brawl, it almost solely happens in reverse.

Then, look at the number of threads bashing Brawl and compare it to ones defending it.

 

[Ryuker]

Your not just saying he's lying Yuna your saying the pit player is garbage cause he got hit by 1 string of hits. How can you even make that judgement :S.

I'm sorry, he walked towards Pit? That Pit was useless.

Also, why would your brother even try to powershield each and every single one of them? It's not like you reflect them with powershielding nowadays. You just suffer slightly less lag.

Furthermore, that Pit was utter garbage if the following Ike combo worked on him:
U-Tilt -> Ather -> Fsmash.

Why would you even need to tech Aether?!

Never base theoretical discussions on the abilities of garbage players.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm not going to lie, utilt > Aether > fsmash is a pretty good indicator of how much of a moron you are when you get hit by it. :x

 

[FightCity]

It's only possible to overcome a clear disadvantage if the one holding the advantage is being an idiot. Spamming arrows until the Ike reaches you, utilts you, and Aethers you is about as smart as spamming arrows until a Luigi walks up and Flaming Punches you.

Yeah I understand there's a countermeasure for the pit player to this but is there one that doesn't give Ike another option. Like what does pit do to an Ike who might do this? I'm asking cause I'd think he'd either change his arrow timing, create more space by rolling/running, try fair/bair, try a grab. All these risk getting hit or damaged in some way or gives up space.

 

[thumbswayup]

I'm not going to lie, utilt > Aether > fsmash is a pretty good indicator of how much of a moron you are when you get hit by it. :x

LOL. Just curious, what show is the character that's your avatar from?

 

[g-regulate]

too many brawl haters deal in absolutes. like "this will only work of the opponent is stupid" or "all you have to do is this and you win". too bad no one plays 100% perfect all the time, or else maybe everything noobs say about brawl would have a shred of legitimacy.

its lame to see those arguments, when the people making the arguments cant even effectively perform what it is they are talking about. yes, camping with pit is an awesome strategy for winning, but i dont see you doing it with the pressure of a tournament, with your money on the line, against someone playing for that money, in the heat of the moment.

 

[NES n00b]

The problem is people are trying to run BRAWL tournaments, but often times, like with FC, the old Melee players come in and try and get the game switched. No one is advocating Melee tournaments to get switched to Brawl, it almost solely happens in reverse.

Then, look at the number of threads bashing Brawl and compare it to ones defending it.

Look at the number of Brawl tournies being held compared to Melee. On the boards, the majority of people want Melee in their region (besides your region and some others like NY), but it doesn't get held cause the tourney hosts can get easy money from the new people. This is the same attitude that Evo has as well. Mostly, Evo has the criteria of that it is an established fighting game that has proven to be deep which of course Brawl has not been proven to be, but they are hosting anyway to make money from the new people. This attitdue in itself is making the Brawl be the exclusive. And have you ever seen the Mass tourney thread where most people are posting that they want Melee but people who aren't going vote for Brawl? It is obvious that the majority opinion on both sides want their games as the main event/exclusive to the scene.

Tourney hosts are switching to Brawl and making it usually the exclusive game for that tourney. Whether this is a good thing is yet to be determined and might hurt the community in the long run for switching so quickly to another game like the SC and Tekken community without prove of its longevity.

What is this nonsense that our community can't handle two games of the same series? Seriously, of course it can. SF people can do it. Tekken people did at one time do it. Why can't we? The Melee side shouldn't have to bow down to a seemingly shallower game with no prove of depth. We shouldn't have to play a game we do not like or not go to a smash tourney at all. Melee as of right now has enough supporters to have tournies and still make money for whoever, it is not like 64 where it is dead/small scene. If the Melee tourney attendence goes to low levels like 64, then we talk about making Brawl exclusive game.

 

[g-regulate]

another point, people say that brawl is "easy".

youll kill someone, and they say "wow, you pressed overB and A. really hard stuff! (sarcasm)"

if its so easy to kill you, then why dont you try to not get hit by my "easy" attacks? once again, when money is on the line, the noobs get left out and can only whine to themselves.

 

[JesiahTEG]

another point, people say that brawl is "easy".

youll kill someone, and they say "wow, you pressed overB and A. really hard stuff! (sarcasm)"

if its so easy to kill you, then why dont you try to not get hit by my "easy" attacks? once again, when money is on the line, the noobs get left out and can only whine to themselves.

Heh, that's what it comes down to. I was saying that a lot in the beginning...Good job, you dsmashed out of shield. Then I realized, I get hit by it every time. Time to stop Johning and step it up.

 

[SiegKnight]

The problem is people are trying to run BRAWL tournaments, but often times, like with FC, the old Melee players come in and try and get the game switched. No one is advocating Melee tournaments to get switched to Brawl, it almost solely happens in reverse.

Then, look at the number of threads bashing Brawl and compare it to ones defending it.

Still awaiting your response, though I'll wait as long as it needs. I really would appreciate a convincing explanations for your faith in Brawl, as I love the game myself.

 

[SiegKnight]

and yes, I agree with g reg almost entirely. Theory fighter sucks. Let the actual playing do the talking. x.o

 

[Jack Kieser]

and yes, I agree with g reg almost entirely. Theory fighter sucks. Let the actual playing do the talking. x.o

You know as well as we do that this is not the case. 'Theory Fighter' is what keeps a lot of people on these boards alive, and without it they wither and die. I don't care what side of the 'debate' (if it can even be called that anymore) someone is on; at the end of the day, all that matters is the gameplay and what comes from that, not what moronic infighting we do here on the boards... some people just don't realize that, though, and think that causing a greater division here will somehow make one game stand above the other.

I love a good debate/argument, but even I am terribly sick of this crap, and I'm a pretty patient person (most of the time).

 

[kainzero]

The problem is people are trying to run BRAWL tournaments, but often times, like with FC, the old Melee players come in and try and get the game switched. No one is advocating Melee tournaments to get switched to Brawl, it almost solely happens in reverse.

Then, look at the number of threads bashing Brawl and compare it to ones defending it.

The number of threads means nothing.
Look at some of these threads; taunt tiering, make-your-own brawl character, how many mains do you have? This is all fun stuff to debate but it almost never affects who goes to tournaments or the quality of play.

The hosts need to say something like "Hey. We wanna run brawl. Go play melee somewhere else." And if these tournaments are small, then so be it.

This is the same attitude that Evo has as well. Mostly, Evo has the criteria of that it is an established fighting game that has proven to be deep which of course Brawl has not been proven to be, but they are hosting anyway to make money from the new people. This attitdue in itself is making the Brawl be the exclusive. And have you ever seen the Mass tourney thread where most people are posting that they want Melee but people who aren't going vote for Brawl? It is obvious that the majority opinion on both sides want their games as the main event/exclusive to the scene.

Tourney hosts are switching to Brawl and making it usually the exclusive game for that tourney. Whether this is a good thing is yet to be determined and might hurt the community in the long run for switching so quickly to another game like the SC and Tekken community without prove of its longevity.

Evo is always quirky. They put in Mario Kart two years ago and that was a big failure, along with the HSF2 CE Bison fiasco. And this year, the inclusion of SSF2T HD Remix is selected and the game isn't even out yet.

But still, I don't even know why people are fighting for exclusives. If your game is so good, it should stand up for itself and ultimately it's up to tournament organizer to decide what he / she wants. Do what you can for your game, host and advertise your own tournaments, etc. It's not like Melee and Brawl HAVE to be at the same tournament.

 

[Koga]

I think his whole point with the Ike vs Pit's arrows scenario was to show that it's possible to overcome camping/projectile spam and that there can be great rewards when you do, even though it's a little difficult. The whole aether-fsmash scenario could be a bad recall, situational, or a result of the pressure Ike creates when he gets in on somebody and starts wailing.

Yes, it was to show that you can powershield up to your opponent who is camping. The rest was just kind a rambling but i proves how Yuna works. He derails your post into his opinions and his own definitions of things and says they're "hard Facts". Whether or not the Pit player made a huge mistake after that is irrelavant to my point anyways. He could have grabbed pit or done whatever he wanted to anyways.

And i never said it was a combo.

 

[NES n00b]

Evo is always quirky. They put in Mario Kart two years ago and that was a big failure, along with the HSF2 CE Bison fiasco. And this year, the inclusion of SSF2T HD Remix is selected and the game isn't even out yet.

But still, I don't even know why people are fighting for exclusives. If your game is so good, it should stand up for itself and ultimately it's up to tournament organizer to decide what he / she wants. Do what you can for your game, host and advertise your own tournaments, etc. It's not like Melee and Brawl HAVE to be at the same tournament.

This is true, but the thing is that Brawl isn't standing up because it is the better fighter or will have big attendences in the future. It is because people can make alot of money on it now. If Brawl starts trailing off or not doing well, then both games are in serious trouble in the future.

You are also right that they don't have to be together at the same tournament, but when other communities can support more than one game and alot of the tourney hosts don't even like the game (Brawl) they are hosting, there is a problem. Alot of games like GG don't get good attendence even though in the technical sense it is "good." Halo 3 is being played now even though Halo 2 and 1 are much better games (though I think Halo 2 is still being played). I guess there really is no point in arguing cause people go where the money is. I think Brawl is going to bust in the long run, but we'll see.

 

[Zankoku]

Yes, it was to show that you can powershield up to your opponent who is camping. The rest was just kind a rambling but i proves how Yuna works. He derails your post into his opinions and his own definitions of things and says they're "hard Facts". Whether or not the Pit player made a huge mistake after that is irrelavant to my point anyways. He could have grabbed pit or done whatever he wanted to anyways.

And i never said it was a combo.

Meanwhile, you always make these ridiculous claims that demonstrate your lack of knowledge in Melee/Brawl history/play, and when someone finds fault with something in it you accuse them of changing the subject, and then when they go on to prove that you are, without a doubt, wrong, you usually start your next statement with "I never said..."

Please, PLEASE stop defending Brawl. You're doing such a bad job of it that I'm actually starting to favor Brawl less than before.

 

[Bowser King]

great post, Alpha Zealot. You said everything I wanted to.

 

[RDK]

You are also right that they don't have to be together at the same tournament, but when other communities can support more than one game and alot of the tourney hosts don't even like the game (Brawl) they are hosting, there is a problem. Alot of games like GG don't get good attendence even though in the technical sense it is "good." Halo 3 is being played now even though Halo 2 and 1 are much better games (though I think Halo 2 is still being played). I guess there really is no point in arguing cause people go where the money is. I think Brawl is going to bust in the long run, but we'll see.

The Smash community will suffer the same fate as Halo and other games series where the newer installments fail to surpass the previous ones. SWF is a living example of that. The massive influx of n00bs to the game will ultimately make it impossible for Melee to be played competitively on a large scale.

 

[Adi]

Well I haven't been in the forums for ages after getting bored of Brawl. I'd figure I'd let the community settle and see if there were any advances in the meta-game. By the looks of it still does not match up to the competitive depth of Melee but this post made me hopeful for the future. I'll keep waiting patiently and see how the community "interprets" this installment of the smash series.

 

[Dark Sonic]

@Ryuker. You did not reply to my post on page 27, where I was refuting some of your claims and explaining how melee was more technical than brawl.

Though I'm suprized you even tried to make that argument as I could easily just point to multishining and you'd have nothing to come back with from brawl.

 

[kainzero]

This is true, but the thing is that Brawl isn't standing up because it is the better fighter or will have big attendences in the future. It is because people can make alot of money on it now. If Brawl starts trailing off or not doing well, then both games are in serious trouble in the future.

Well, if Brawl starts trailing off and people are making money off of it now, that's how it is. They're being experimental like usual. According to jchensor's blog, they omitted 3rd strike one year from Evo because it wasn't popular enough. Now it's the most popular game. Go figure. =)

You are also right that they don't have to be together at the same tournament, but when other communities can support more than one game and alot of the tourney hosts don't even like the game (Brawl) they are hosting, there is a problem. Alot of games like GG don't get good attendence even though in the technical sense it is "good." Halo 3 is being played now even though Halo 2 and 1 are much better games (though I think Halo 2 is still being played). I guess there really is no point in arguing cause people go where the money is. I think Brawl is going to bust in the long run, but we'll see.

If I was running a tourney and I didn't like the game it was for, why am I running it? If everyone wants a football tournament and I want a basketball tournament, then I'm running a basketball tournament.
Actually it's kinda funny, I was reading a thread on a Brawl tournament they were gonna have at FFA. They wanted to bump the entry fee from $8 to $12, and people were like "No way! That's too much!" Makes me wonder what happens when people say that the money is in Brawl, cause shouldn't everyone be playing to win? Feels more like the money comes from pros feasting on noobs, right? =)

GG is "technically" good but it has a steep learning curve. That's a fault of their game design. The difference between Halo 3 and 2 is debatable, random BR burst and melee system vs. auto-aim sniping. I don't know, take your pick. [Note that I haven't explored the depth of Halo, but that's as far as I got before my MLG team decided not to go MLG =)] And depth doesn't necessarily make a better game. Since you guys love chess analogies so much, World Champions Fischer and Lasker tried to make changes to chess to make it more interesting but neither took off.

You guys gotta realize that you're really pulling out miracles with the tournament scene to begin with. I mean, you don't have ANY support or design input at all, making it hard to really regulate the game and market it, and I think is the key difference between Starcraft and fighting games as far as competitive scene.

 

[AlphaZealot]

What is this nonsense that our community can't handle two games of the same series? Seriously, of course it can. SF people can do it. Tekken people did at one time do it. Why can't we? The Melee side shouldn't have to bow down to a seemingly shallower game with no prove of depth. We shouldn't have to play a game we do not like or not go to a smash tourney at all. Melee as of right now has enough supporters to have tournies and still make money for whoever, it is not like 64 where it is dead/small scene. If the Melee tourney attendence goes to low levels like 64, then we talk about making Brawl exclusive game.

Wow, the irony. How is Brawl suppose to be proven one way or another without holding tournaments? If the people like Melee more than Brawl, have those people hold a Melee tournament, but don't attack someone who wants to hold a Brawl tournament for no other reason than YOU don't like Brawl and YOU think it only being held to attract noobs. If I were to hold a tournament, I would do Brawl singles and doubles (emphasis on doubles), because its new, its interesting, I like it, I know lots of other people like it, and if there were some extra time, I would do Melee singles.

This is true, but the thing is that Brawl isn't standing up because it is the better fighter or will have big attendences in the future. It is because people can make alot of money on it now.

Unfounded and unsupported statement, who exactly is making money on it, I ask you? Most TO's don't take money out of the pot. The top players now are, essentially, the same top players that were in Melee, so few if any new people are seeing any green. So, please tell me, who is making all this money if not the same players that dominated Melee? Its as if you can't possibly grasp that some people actually like Brawl and that is the reason they are holding tournaments for it, you assume that if someone is holding a Brawl tournament, then CLEARLY it must be only for money.

. On the boards, the majority of people want Melee in their region

Also unfounded, its a vocal minority that want Melee tournaments, you've been mislead. You probably wouldn't even reach the 50% mark after you take away all the new players that you seem to disrespect so much.

---

Siegknight: I'd like to do something better, maybe I will in the future, but I guess this will have to do for now. I'll post something I had been working on as sort of a separate project, this was written PRIOR to the release of Brawl, with the Muffin Kings statements being written sometime in 2006, but mainly referring to his experience as a player in 2004 and 2005.

“Smash involves precognition in some sense, which involves letting go of traditional, grounded, and ultimately basal thinking. To anticipate an opponent's movements and swirl the possibilities in your head demands something more than just a common procedural task list cognition that most people have. It requires abstract thinking, jumping from illogic idea to illogic idea in order so that intuition becomes the method by which you outmaneuver the enemy” wrote Jad "The Muffin King" Hopper, formerly one of the best Mario players in the country. “You anticipate them before they anticipate themselves”

“The best Smash players are always those who "out think" the opponent. It's because they're artists, and are able to make the free association necessary to defeat the person still grounded in procedural knowledge” said Hopper.

Of course this is just one way to approach the concept, procedural knowledge actually does have its hand in Smash and is one of the key aspects to being successful. Players like Mew2King have memorized combos and know at what percentage they are best used and these players have procedures of what to do against what character at what percent and in what situation. Hopper’s statements on approaching the game with abstract thinking is still accurate, but most of this abstract thinking eventually leads to a grounded knowledge and understanding. The best Brawl players early on will be the ones who picture the game as a canvas to be painted, because they will be the ones to see and abstract which moves and combos work best.

The concepts the Muffin King talks about are what I like about Brawl. The use of abstraction, anticipation, jumping from thought to thought. The grounded knowledge I and the Muffin King refer to in this quote is the same as the rehearsal that I mention in the OP. Now that this grounded knowledge is out the window with a new game, we can approach Brawl with a blank slate and go back to how Smash was once played, during the Muffin King's time, in 2004, when players relied on this sort of abstraction instead of procedural knowledge. Eventually Brawl will have procedural knowledge, but it takes a long time to develop this. This lack of procedural knowledge with a new game, I think, is what bugs some people, they don't like that they have to learn stuff, that they have to think for themselves. Its not just me who reliazes this, look at Forwards post, he, and DSF, are aware of the same phenomenon in regards to these players.

Good job AZ, stick it to 'em.

I once had a conversation with DSF and he brought up that a lot of the players that don't like brawl are the people who came in late to melee and copied. They didn't create their own tactics, they took what was already good and improved on it.

When Melee was first released, it was a much different game than what you see today. It didn't have insane combos, people didn't l cancel, no one dash danced and a few people spammed wavedashes, it would look something like how Brawl looks today. Would the current melee fans still play if it weren't developed?

Our own knowledge of brawl is limited, we just haven't had the time to internalize the game like we have with melee. Good melee players know the properties, offensively and defensively, of almost every attack in the game; how to set it up/approach with it, where the move sends them, how they should DI it, what can counter a follow up to that move, and how to bait it out. In melee I know 90% of all the character's moves, there will always be a few low tiers I don't know and the top IC and Jigg metagame that only 5 people will ever know. In brawl I understand 5% of all the character's moves.

In closing all I can say is it's a matter of preference. If you enjoy exploring new territory you'll enjoy brawl regardless of the current play style. If you can't give up the technical skill (which I admit was fun, but not for everybody) then you will have a hard time enjoying brawl.

So there you have it, I like exploring new territory, figuring things out, linking stuff, going from thought to thought.

 

[Zaim2]

Melee VS Brawl