Teams Tier List: version 1

[leffen]

zelda isnt a beast, shes horrible in teams.

Cosmo hasnt proven ****, MW is, tbh, not even close to the other regions in terms of top skill level, and even then hes an outlier.

 

[Mundungu]

zelda isnt a beast, shes horrible in teams.

Cosmo hasnt proven ****, MW is, tbh, not even close to the other regions in terms of top skill level, and even then hes an outlier.

Well, by "beast", I mean the best character worse than marth, which doesn't leave much. The only character below marth I could see being better in teams is Pikachu.

He's definitely got the speed and edgeguarding abilities to be higher on the list, I just haven't really seen it put to use. I'll have to take Axe's word for it that he is that good.

Upper Mid tier for me right now would be the following:
Marth
Pikachu / Zelda
Doc
Samus

 

[JPOBS]

where do you live, I'm willing to travel most of west coast. play jigglypuff against me, if jigglypuff is your main. $100-250 dollar mm match. I'm not joking, I'm free over the summer.

or team money match. Pick a "good" jigglypuff player to be on your team, hell pick hungybox for I care.

MM match me with a puff or stfu. yea I'm calling your but out. PROVE IT! oh, and good luck resting me. call me a ****** in real life btw. I'm located in madison/milwaukee wisconsin. lol United States

even after saying all that you're still wrong and laughably stupid.

 

[Mundungu]

Sanchaz, Jiggs is definitely top tier. Most of her singles drawbacks don't apply in teams, like her fox dash dance grab issues.

 

[Prince_Abu]

fox puff falco peach sheik falcon ganon marth.

should be the order

 

[Divinokage]

Awesome to see this finally on the boards!

@ Jamin' Jobus; I think the biggest gap on the whole list (other than maybe jiggs to falcon) is Ganon to Marth. Ganon >>>>>>>> Marth in teams, it's not even close imo. A lot of Marth's singles shinanigans don't work in teams, namely his downthrow gimps and chaingrabbing. Ganon can kill a character with two quick hits with an edgeguard, where it takes Marth a long time to kill someone with decent DI. Plus ganon has amazing recovery in teams, since his teammate can just cover him as he returns to the stage.

The only minor problem I still have is zelda > doc. Zelda is pretty beastly in teams, Cosmo has proven that. She does suffer from the lack of approaching options, but so does everyone else around that level (except for marth). She can take stocks quicker than almost anyone out of nowhere, similar to falcon, where doc struggles with any offense other than edgeguarding, which is where he shines.

The high tier seems pretty interchangeable at this point, minus ganon seeming to stay at the bottom of high tier. I almost feel like ganon should be in a tier on his own below high, and marth in a tier on his own below ganon tier, but that would just be awkward.

Ya Ganon's recovery isn't as bad as in singles but it's still pretty bad, it takes him a long time to recover and it gives a lot of opportunities for the 2 opposing players to do 2v1 combos against your partner, and hes also VERY bad at helping a partner recover off stage unless you manage to knock away the opponents. Though he can survive to high % still and he can put people off-stage pretty damn quickly for your friend to edgeguard, Ganon's stage control in teams is really scary.

 

[Roche_CL]

Top
Fox
Jigglypuff

High
Sheik
Falcon
Peach
Falco
Ganon

i'd put sheik on top of High (falcon's edgeguard is not that good, can't save oponent, sometimes kills partner, easy to gimp), sheik does better in all those aspects i think, and you don't depend too much on DD as you would on a single match (which is a very good aspect about Falcon and a bad one about sheik).

 

[eighteenspikes]

The only minor problem I still have is zelda > doc. Zelda is pretty beastly in teams, Cosmo has proven that. She does suffer from the lack of approaching options, but so does everyone else around that level (except for marth). She can take stocks quicker than almost anyone out of nowhere, similar to falcon, where doc struggles with any offense other than edgeguarding, which is where he shines.

no!!! docs dsmash and fair are hella spammable, his grabs are incredible at getting the enemy offstage and into edgeguarding position (gimps are pivotal in teams and a failed gimp is still a high pressure scenario for both members of the opposing team). and even saying doc shines in edgeguarding is still an understatement in teams. the cape is such a catchall, especially in situations where the teammate has the ledge or is somehow providing pressure. i cant count the number of times ive just gone flying in from across the stage at the very last second to cape someone my teammate just missed. doc is a closer, zelda is a killer, i think the former is better in teams

 

[Deleted member]

lol, I think Zelda is better than Doc in teams.

WHERE YOU AT BOSS8? GET SOME

 

[Prince_Abu]

sanchaz are you seriously trying to make the argument that jigglypuff is a bad character?
look at the tier list, look at tourney results.

ur wrong

 

[Sraigux]

I like where zelda is.

Also, I think roy should be higher up. He really excels in teams with his Neutral B and dtilt, they set up into a combo for his teammate, not to mention when his ally throws an opponent at him, he can just fsmash for a quick KO. His counter is also a viable move in teams when his opponent is knocked out and it is 2v1 for a couple of seconds. Not to mention having a teammate can help his recovery immensely.

 

[kalamazhu]

sanchaz are you seriously trying to make the argument that jigglypuff is a bad character?
look at the tier list, look at tourney results.

ur wrong

Ur getting on my nerves prince!! ur such an aS.shole!!

 

[sanchaz]

I don't even care if people say that jigglypuff is top tier. However saying "ur wrong" or something like "you don't know what your talking about" is pretty childish. I disagree with the tier list so people instantly say that I'm retarted. sorry for having an opinion and fighting for my points trying to show what points I see that jigglypuff is slightly over rated. She (he? lol) is a better character in teams. but what does EVERYTEAM have? Fox, and that fox will find puff and just destroy puff. here is what I see about puff

Good: Dreamland is what makes her destroy everything: dying at like 95%ish. Other stages include Brinstar and kongo jungle maybe? The rest MUST not miss. but hell still pretty god dang effective. that puff move can help tons of teammates be saved. the whole 2 vs 1 safe rest move where one player holds and other rests.

Bad: Yoshi's, Final Destination, pokemon: puff dies at 65% ish against you know who, fox with upsmash or upthrow up air. unable to save teamates because of her speed sometimes. YOU MISS THAT REST, YOUR GOING TO KNOW IT. there isn't as much room for the singles spacing to have effect.

I feel that the bad outweighs the good. EVERY puff main hates fox, and is very scarred to see that on the other team. However if there is no fox, puff is pretty dam good.

I was not exactly sure if sheik was better tied or worse, but thx to m2k saying something like 3rd 4thish. Idk. sheik mains. get better at teams, lol.

So who do I think is better then puff or tiedish at least...Captain Falcon, YESZ!!! I'm not trying to be biased either (seriously!!!)

what makes him bad in singles is neglected of what happens in teams play.

Good: his speed, jesus chirst. how piss off are people when falcon runs accross the stage to knee the edgeguarder. His recovery takes a long time, and even though its soooooo easy to edgeguard him, when he says falcon kick! teammate can react to that and provide a distraction until he recovers. down throw and down air requires a tech, and I feel that if teamates cover their option, 3/4s of tech can be cover. I've seen it more in pro play more often then I thought it should happen. If the sheik is downthrow tech chasing him, teamate can easily break it up

Bad: lol, its still captain falcon vs fox, and falco. tough matchups for him. harder to save teammates. I know there is a lot more bad stuff for him, I'll continue later,

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You realize that ICs are essentially 2 Docs put together, right?

 

[1048576]

Falcon ***** in teams. If you even so much as tilt when he's unoccupied, you eat a knee and die at 90. It's kind of like Puff's rest only it doesn't kill as fast, it's not risky, and he can do it from basically anywhere on stage.

 

[gm jack]

Falcon ***** in teams. If you even so much as tilt when he's unoccupied, you eat a knee and die at 90. It's kind of like Puff's rest only it doesn't kill as fast, it's not risky, and he can do it from basically anywhere on stage.

But he also is slow, easily pressured, combed and gimped. If you are leaving the falcon to run around as he pleases, you're doing it wrong.

Falcon looks great when it works, but struggles to hold a team together if things aren't going well. The only character he is better than in doubles but worse than in singles in Marth.

 

[KishPrime]

Why would Jigglypuff be scared of Fox in teams? It always made me happy.

 

[stelzig]

Jigglypuff is one of the strongest team characters. She is easily number 2. Her rest can single handedly change games.
- Team combos lead to rests. Team Grabs lead to rests. Plus her own variety of landing rests herself.
-there is relatively little risk in going for a rest in teams because your teamate can/will save you.

Ok well replace my statement of puff being overrated in teams with rest in teams being overrated then.

Rest is awesome in teams and pound is a great move for helping your teammate back on the stage... But you're still a rather slow and floaty character that can't help out as quickly/well as most other good characters, and once again in my experience (I don't think anyone commented on it) doesn't really put on a particularely good offense so she's even easier to just lock out of the match while you team on the other player. idk, but there's gotta be more to saying puff is great in teams than "hurrr rest"

 

[gm jack]

Ok well replace my statement of puff being overrated in teams with rest in teams being overrated then.

Rest is awesome in teams and pound is a great move for helping your teammate back on the stage... But you're still a rather slow and floaty character that can't help out as quickly/well as most other good characters, and once again in my experience (I don't think anyone commented on it) doesn't really put on a particularely good offense so she's even easier to just lock out of the match while you team on the other player. idk, but there's gotta be more to saying puff is great in teams than "hurrr rest"

Puff is a support team character. She can't really carry a team, but she can assist more well rounded teams characters like Fox and Sheik so well she can more than earn her keep.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Rest is awesome in teams and pound is a great move for helping your teammate back on the stage... But you're still a rather slow and floaty character that can't help out as quickly/well as most other good characters, and once again in my experience (I don't think anyone commented on it) doesn't really put on a particularely good offense so she's even easier to just lock out of the match while you team on the other player. idk, but there's gotta be more to saying puff is great in teams than "hurrr rest"

Dual Jigglypuff. She has the best recovery and she does not get comboed (as hard as other characters), so the need to assist the other jigglypuff only happens in the event of a rest.

Plus, you are likely to piss off both of your opponents into making mistakes.

This team breaks the metagame.

 

[Bones0]

I disagree that Puff is more of the support role on a team. From what I've noticed, the dynamic tends to be that the Puff plays patiently but gets clutch rests and off stage bairs for gimps while their teammate takes all the pain. It's kind of like support, but it's not like she doesn't get any KOs, she just doesn't initiate that many. That's why Fox/Puff is such a great team. The Fox can play pretty aggressively and stay safe even when getting double teamed because of his speed and shine. This enables Puff to play patiently and swoop in for rest opportunities and pick at people with aerials without risking getting hit. That's my take on it anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkzyO4ANIS0#t=3m15s

 

[sanchaz]

Dual Jigglypuff. She has the best recovery and she does not get comboed (as hard as other characters), so the need to assist the other jigglypuff only happens in the event of a rest.

Plus, you are likely to piss off both of your opponents into making mistakes.

This team breaks the metagame.

....I try to take to people seriously here, then realize I could arguing someone like xeylode, never mind.

kishprime: fox counters puff: known fact in the smash community, smashers such as mango and hbox see a good fox player, they are like ****, we are talking about the character

gm jack: lmao how is falcon slow in teams?!?!?!?! and gimps on falcon often take to long for the other teammate not to notice.

 

[JPOBS]

Ok well replace my statement of puff being overrated in teams with rest in teams being overrated then.

Rest is awesome in teams and pound is a great move for helping your teammate back on the stage... But you're still a rather slow and floaty character that can't help out as quickly/well as most other good characters, and once again in my experience (I don't think anyone commented on it) doesn't really put on a particularely good offense so she's even easier to just lock out of the match while you team on the other player. idk, but there's gotta be more to saying puff is great in teams than "hurrr rest"

She's not perfect, no.

she's slow, but along with being able to save her partner, she can always make it back from anywhere. Thats nice. Especially when some characters like fox have to endanger themselves more often than not to help their partner, or other chars like marth and falcon/ganon who struggle to help saves at all.

I don't consider being "unable to put up a good offense" a particularly big problem, especially with Rest. rest is seriously a game changer.

I don't even care if people say that jigglypuff is top tier. However saying "ur wrong" or something like "you don't know what your talking about" is pretty childish. I disagree with the tier list so people instantly say that I'm retarted.

I would take you more seriously if you hadn't already made this post on the first page:

look at tournament placement, look at the character: her speed is way to slow, gets hit randomly A LOT!

"but she has a one hit kill move"- okay fine, do you have any idea how HARD it is to get that move off, EVERYTIME jigglypuff rest you its your fault. characters below her can punish the hell outta that. talk to everyone that mains jigglypuff, and more importantly, look at tournament rankings. IF AND ONLY IF I SEE A JIGGLYPUFF TEAM PLACE TOP 5 at like genesis 2, I'll watch the matches to see how it happens.

And yes I'm calling you out, I don't mean to harsh, but where is the evidence. Smashers from other regions, back me up here.

Doser: lol yea, sheik should be higher, like tied with peach, its just that I've never seen a sheik team. not sure how she works, but kirbykaze and m2k make it work.

Almost every single sentence in this post is factually incorrect. Or, if not directly incorrect, implies a premise which is incorrect or vast overrexaggeration. I've highlighted some of the real keepers in red.

my personal favorite is where you ask for evidence, and somehow seem ignorant of the fact that either Hbox, Mango, or both have placed top 5 in teams with puff in every tournament since like pound 3.

 

[crush]

lilo and stitch (phil and falcomist) have an awesome puff/fox team

 

[Divinokage]

Darc + anyone is also garanteed Top 3 too. =D

 

[JPOBS]

yea i forgot about darc tearing it up also.

 

[Tomotoya]

Sanchez. Puff is good in teams. Accept it.

 

[Divinokage]

The one time I teamed with Darc we got 2nd, and we brought M2k/Jman to 2nd set. Ganon/Jiggs vs Double Fox. Dair into rest is so sexy lol.. instant KO.

 

[KishPrime]

kishprime: fox counters puff: known fact in the smash community, smashers such as mango and hbox see a good fox player, they are like ****, we are talking about the character

Just curious, but have they actually said this or are you interjecting your own thoughts here? Even if Fox counters Puff in singles (which I think is a marginal difference that is dependent on stage and style), Fox in teams is not nearly the same thing as Fox in singles because you would not be fighting the Fox 1v1. There are a lot more opportunities for rests/edgeguards, and Fox is light enough to get smacked around.

I'm also tempted to take you up on your money match offer. Squared and I are playing back into some semblance of shape.

 

[gm jack]

gm jack: lmao how is falcon slow in teams?!?!?!?! and gimps on falcon often take to long for the other teammate not to notice.

Gimping him quickly is character dependent I guess, but who regularly takes extended hits to finish off a falcon when they aren't better off getting 2vs1 on the other player?

As for his speed, it's because he gets shut down with poor options from a tech too much and really struggles to get stuff going. Once he gets moving and his great kill power makes him a bit of a wild card, but if the opposing team has a fox, falco or sheik which is able to to keep on him the entire game, he struggles to get to use what he does have going for him.

The spacies, sheik and puff don't suffer from getting shut down so easily and are able to move around a hectic match much better. Falcon needs space, which you don't always have in teams.

 

[sanchaz]

She's not perfect, no.

she's slow, but along with being able to save her partner, she can always make it back from anywhere. Thats nice. Especially when some characters like fox have to endanger themselves more often than not to help their partner, or other chars like marth and falcon/ganon who struggle to help saves at all.

I don't consider being "unable to put up a good offense" a particularly big problem, especially with Rest. rest is seriously a game changer.

I would take you more seriously if you hadn't already made this post on the first page:

Almost every single sentence in this post is factually incorrect. Or, if not directly incorrect, implies a premise which is incorrect or vast overrexaggeration. I've highlighted some of the real keepers in red.

my personal favorite is where you ask for evidence, and somehow seem ignorant of the fact that either Hbox, Mango, or both have placed top 5 in teams with puff in every tournament since like pound 3.

sorry, i suck at english. I like to argue character, more then tournament ranking. If I met you in person, I would love to have this debate. I hope we didn't start off on the wrong foot. I like a good arguement.

mango doesn't count, rofl. that guy can play mario against most sheiks and win. I;m aware of other puff mains. I think the best puff main in teams is darc by FAR! that guys is something else.
My freind showed me on hungrybox and mango's puff boards how tough the fox matchup is, however thats only in singles.
I think that I'll stop arguing here about puff in teams. however I seriously believe that puff is overated in teams.

what if teams only matters on what the fox does??? lol, I'm serious. that character needs its own tier.

 

[eighteenspikes]

You realize that ICs are essentially 2 Docs put together, right?

huh. i was almost positive this would have been edited out after you sobered up in the morning.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Puff is better than Fox in teams.

 

[Hax]

Tier 1
Fox
Jigglypuff

Tier 2
Falco
Peach

Tier 3
Sheik

Tier 4
Falcon
Ganondorf

after that everyone is non-viable. falcon and ganon are hardly viable. teams is so unbalanced lol

the OP rates falcon way too high and fails to realize that one of the most important aspects of teams (and the reason Fox/Falco are so good) is that they have extremely quick aerials that are great for close-ranged combat between all 4 players. their nairs are pretty much unparalleled in that regard. characters like Falcon and Ganon often find themselves shield pressured by both opponents at once with nearly no escape because their attacks aren't fast enough... i honestly only put falcon over ganon because he is faster/less prone to finding himself stuck in those situations

 

[JPOBS]

sorry, i suck at english. I like to argue character, more then tournament ranking. If I met you in person, I would love to have this debate. I hope we didn't start off on the wrong foot. I like a good arguement.

no problem, guess we just misunderstood one another.

 

[Divinokage]

Tier 1
Fox
Jigglypuff

Tier 2
Falco
Peach

Tier 3
Sheik

Tier 4
Falcon
Ganondorf

after that everyone is non-viable. falcon and ganon are hardly viable. teams is so unbalanced lol

the OP rates falcon way too high and fails to realize that one of the most important aspects of teams (and the reason Fox/Falco are so good) is that they have extremely quick aerials that are great for close-ranged combat between all 4 players. their nairs are pretty much unparalleled in that regard. characters like Falcon and Ganon often find themselves shield pressured by both opponents at once with nearly no escape because their attacks aren't fast enough... i honestly only put falcon over ganon because he is faster/less prone to finding himself stuck in those situations

You are right, Falcon is definitely over Ganon. Though I would put Peach over Falco, Peach is just such good support. There's quite often Peaches in Top 3 teams but not Falco.

 

[crush]

You are right, Falcon is definitely over Ganon. Though I would put Peach over Falco, Peach is just such good support. There's quite often Peaches in Top 3 teams but not Falco.

nice english.

 

[Hax]

you're right kage, peach/falco being 3rd/4th is the only thing i could see being changed on the tier list i just posted. the reason i put falco above her is because i think Fox/Falco is a better team than any Peach/??? team. also, Peach isn't nearly as mobile and nobody falls for her dsmash nowadays

 

[Divinokage]

Ouf.. Peace/Fox I think is better than Fox/Falco, overall.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

huh. i was almost positive this would have been edited out after you sobered up in the morning.

Wave-dash: Both have long wave-dashes used for movement and spacing.
Throws: Both combo off of their throws and have mediocre grab ranges.
Back air: Both use their back airs for spacing and can combo off a hit.
Smashes: Powerful, ranged and fast.
Recovery: Both awful, IC's can recover further but more predictably, vice versa for Doc.
SHFFL'D Nair: Both use it as a combo starter.
Uair: Both use it for comboing (Doc more than ICs, they have a more juggling based one).

Popo is almost as good as Doc, and probably better than Mario. It doesn't make sense to have Ice Climbers so low when they are even better when there is two of them. They don't have to rely on grab combos and de-syncs, they can just play like two Marios at once.