TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Beren Zaiga]

I kinda agree with JOE on this one.

Up until now, we have basically given the characters weapons that we think or know they are familiar with, and for some, the real-life equivalents. It really wouldn't be Cloud without the Buster Sword.

@ Sword Weight: Even with it's size, I highly doubt the Buster Sword weighs 80lbs, thats over-exaggeration at its finest. I think that the Buster Sword would be 20 lbs tops and 15 at a minimum.

 

[Nova9000]

I was being sarcastic earlier. Give Cloud something else besides his traditional sword please. Otherwise every MU is going to involve him stealing weapons. That's where I stand on the situation.

 

[Sieguest]

Looks like Cloud is gonna win this since he can steal weapons. So that's the verdict it seems.

>.> You sound as if you have some sort of objection....

apparently...

even though that goes agains the point of giving ech side unique weapons in the 1st place...

How exactly? Just because someone can disarm the other person doesn't defeat the purpose of them starting with weapons, it's a method to overcome the advantage that comes with weapons.

I wasn't aware Cloud could swing and slash with a +80lb sword

Where the hell are you getting 80+ pounds?

I was being sarcastic earlier. Give Cloud something else besides his traditional sword please. Otherwise every MU is going to involve him stealing weapons. That's where I stand on the situation.

This is preposterous. You are WAY over generalizing it now. Cloud has the ability to steal Chrono's sword because:
A. From what I've read he has training in doing so.
B. Chrono is way unrefined in swordplay, it's likely he doesn't know how to keep from getting his sword taken. Especially in the face of someone more trained who can read his sword swings and act accordingly.
C. And if you disarm something and you can use it to your advantage, wouldn't you use it?

It's not like Cloud can walk up to Ike and steal his sword. Ike is much more trained and probably know how to avoid that situation.

Next you'll complain that OMG HE'LL TAKE WOLF'S BLASTER OH NOES HE'S TOO BROKEN FOR THE MUs.
>.>

 

[Nova9000]

Guest get ninja'd....

 

[JOE!]

well, I said that because of not disarming, but stealing weapons

 

[Nova9000]

But IIRC he can use his own weapon defensively. He'd just camp and outmaneuver.

 

[JOE!]

he could swing it, and Crono's only defense is getting out of the way due to it's power...

 

[Sieguest]

Guest get ninja'd....

Get edited upon. (I edited my post with a response to what you just posted.

well, I said that because of not disarming, but stealing weapons

>.> Well if you can disarm someone of their weapon, would it not be logical to use that weapon if you could?

 

[JOE!]

if you disarm them....would you do:

A) just kill them with the weapon you ALLREADY HAVE IN YOUR HANDS

B) take the time to drop your weapon (potentially) and get the new one, which you may or may not be proficient with?

 

[Sieguest]

if you disarm them....would you do:

A) just kill them with the weapon you ALLREADY HAVE IN YOUR HANDS

B) take the time to drop your weapon (potentially) and get the new one, which you may or may not be proficient with?

Depends, if I'm holding something that's going to take me five seconds to swing and I know that my opponent can't use my weapon, then I would drop mine and get theirs.

 

[JOE!]

but we seem to agree that it'd be slow, but not 5 seconds to swing his sword, right? >.>

 

[Nova9000]

This is preposterous. You are WAY over generalizing it now. Cloud has the ability to steal Chrono's sword because:
A. From what I've read he has training in doing so.
B. Chrono is way unrefined in swordplay, it's likely he doesn't know how to keep from getting his sword taken. Especially in the face of someone more trained who can read his sword swings and act accordingly.
C. And if you disarm something and you can use it to your advantage, wouldn't you use it?

It's not like Cloud can walk up to Ike and steal his sword. Ike is much more trained and probably know how to avoid that situation.

Next you'll complain that OMG HE'LL TAKE WOLF'S BLASTER OH NOES HE'S TOO BROKEN FOR THE MUs.
>.>

......I'm done with this...just make a **** decision and move on....amazing how much heat you take when you put the thread before the character....

 

[REL38]

I kinda agree with JOE on this one.

Up until now, we have basically given the characters weapons that we think or know they are familiar with, and for some, the real-life equivalents. It really wouldn't be Cloud without the Buster Sword.

@ Sword Weight: Even with it's size, I highly doubt the Buster Sword weighs 80lbs, thats over-exaggeration at its finest. I think that the Buster Sword would be 20 lbs tops and 15 at a minimum.

A characters's weapon doesn't make the character

It's what they accomplish during gameplay, storyline and character development
A weapon is simply trademark for certain characters such as Ness, Link and IC's

These matches really shouldn't be about representing characters via their trademark appearances, but how they will fair in RL battles

Where the hell are you getting 80+ pounds?

Someone said it could possibly weigh 50 some lbs so I randomly generated 80lbs
:x

Next you'll complain that OMG HE'LL TAKE WOLF'S BLASTER OH NOES HE'S TOO BROKEN FOR THE MUs.
>.>

Just imagining this is pretty funny

......I'm done with this...just make a **** decision and move on....amazing how much heat you take when you put the thread before the character....

Exactly how is stealing the weapon you've disarmed from you're foe a bad thing?

Considering how this is a tactic utilized in self-defense IRL, I fail to see why this would pose a problem when it's pretty straightforward that it's a legit strategy
Especially when this thread is designed to be realistic

I mean, preventing characters from using the other's weapons altogether would imply that bomb-cooking is no longer a factor to be considered since the foe is "banned" from picking the bomb up and throwing it back
There were no qualms about returning thrown bombs months ago (aka using enemy weapon) so I fail to see why this is an issue now

 

[JOE!]

well yeah...cus you know, you pick up a bomb and you may no longer have a hand anymore...

 

[REL38]

well yeah...cus you know, you pick up a bomb and you may no longer have a hand anymore...

Yet, when they were first introduced in the thread no one could light n' toss because there was enough time to throw it back before it exploded
They had to light n' wait n' then toss
Because people said they other guy could throw it back

aka using enemy weapons

What happened then?
Characters were forced to cook the bombs so they couldn't be used against them
A strategy implemented to avoid return fire from their very own weapon
Weapon stealing was allowed or else bomb cooking wouldn't have even been a problem or at least not a prevelent as it has been


Weapon stealing = realistic


I fail to see why this is a problem or see a legitimate reason preventing this tactic



Just to say, Cloud actually hitting with that huge sword will be like landing a Warlock Punch in Brawl

 

[Sieguest]

Just to say, Cloud actually hitting with that huge sword will be like landing a Warlock Punch in Brawl

It can soooooo happen....
don't even know man... don't even know....

 

[JOE!]

in cloud's case, the warlock punch also has the range of like Weegee's fireball

as for bomb cooking, isnt that also to make sure it hits right? you dont want your bomb to hit the ground and bounce/roll away, then explode do you?

the only issue I have is that after disarming the foe, you are implying characters drop their weapon to go get theirs...when they could just kill them then and there with their own weapon

 

[ElPanandero]

Again, Cloud cannot wield the Buster sword, even for a swing. We have estimated the weight to be 20lbs (which first of his horribly inaccurate, it'd be far greater, due to its width). Even using 20 lbs. as a reference point is impossible heavy. There is a myth of a German war general who wielded a 15 lb Zweihander (narrower than the Buster Sword) and this has left most historians skeptical because even a man at peak physcial condition (i.e what were giving to Cloud) would never be able to use this sword effectively. Add on 5 (or more) lbs. and remove all aspects of the blade that made it wieldly . The Buster Sword is crafted with no realism in mind, it's an overweight club with far too much weight to even, imo, be swung.

 

[Sieguest]

Again, Cloud cannot wield the Buster sword, even for a swing. We have estimated the weight to be 20lbs (which first of his horribly inaccurate, it'd be far greater, due to its width). Even using 20 lbs. as a reference point is impossible heavy. There is a myth of a German war general who wielded a 15 lb Zweihander (narrower than the Buster Sword) and this has left most historians skeptical because even a man at peak physcial condition (i.e what were giving to Cloud) would never be able to use this sword effectively. Add on 5 (or more) lbs. and remove all aspects of the blade that made it wieldly . The Buster Sword is crafted with no realism in mind, it's an overweight club with far too much weight to even, imo, be swung.

So I if I found someone who managed to swing the middle timpani drum (the third in size of the five drums) I could prove you wrong.... >.>

 

[UncleSam]

So I if I found someone who managed to swing the middle timpani drum (the third in size of the five drums) I could prove you wrong.... >.>

that's mad easy with a little thing called momentum.

 

[goldwyvern]

a little thing called momentum.

Exactly. Cloud, with his physical capabilities boosted from whatever messed up genetic experimentation was done on him, could easily swing his sword without having more than a second or two of recoil, made even easier by teh addition of momentum, which Im sure he'll give himself, as simply running with the sword drawn shouldnt be to difficult. Like I said, Cloud's huge weapon that he has the ability to use and he proficiency in it make him barely beat out Crono. I still stand behind him winning 550 out of 1000 matches.

Now, can we PLEASE end this match soon, as its becoming monotonous and disorienting.

 

[ElPanandero]

So I if I found someone who managed to swing the middle timpani drum (the third in size of the five drums) I could prove you wrong.... >.>

No...how is that your interpretation? If the heaviest blade history has recorded being used in a fight is 5+ pounds heavier than the sword on discussion, and said wiedler of historical blade is widely believed to be a myth, how can you say Cloud can use a heavier sword.
The fact that in this case it's largely debated on weather or not a man could use the middle timpani drum, proving anything bigger would be impossible.

And there's a little problem with Momentum, it must first over come inertia, in this case I don't believe Cloud's body alone can overcome the static inertia of his Buster Sword. (It is inertia right?)

 

[Sieguest]

No...how is that your interpretation? If the heaviest blade history has recorded being used in a fight is 5+ pounds heavier than the sword on discussion, and said wiedler of historical blade is widely believed to be a myth, how can you say Cloud can use a heavier sword.
The fact that in this case it's largely debated on weather or not a man could use the middle timpani drum, proving anything bigger would be impossible.

Seeing as how the middle timpani drum is 18lbs. And yet our percussion players can lift and swing the thing up onto higher ground (e.g. the stage). >.>

Now answer this question: Did that man you mentioned use one or two hands when he wielded the sword.

 

[REL38]

in cloud's case, the warlock punch also has the range of like Weegee's fireball

as for bomb cooking, isnt that also to make sure it hits right? you dont want your bomb to hit the ground and bounce/roll away, then explode do you?

the only issue I have is that after disarming the foe, you are implying characters drop their weapon to go get theirs...when they could just kill them then and there with their own weapon

More like D3's Fsmash range
Except he has no reliable set-up

Anyways, accuracy was partially the reason
The other part was the enemy throwing the bomb/grenade back

Utlizing the enemy's weapon

Again, something no one had a problem with months and months ago


To answer you're main concern, if Cloud were to choose to disarm Chrono he'd be better off doing so empty handed
Lugging an overly heavy sword only to disarm the opponent is rather unconventional for obvious reasons

So I if I found someone who managed to swing the middle timpani drum (the third in size of the five drums) I could prove you wrong.... >.>

It's a little different swinging a drum than a lengthy sword
Especially with enough power and speed to make any considerable damage

Personally, I'm seeing the sword weigh around 30 lbs

 

[UncleSam]

[COLOR="SandyBrown"|[/COLOR][IMG]http://dvice.com/pics/Final_Fantasy_Cloud.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Silver"]How tall is cloud?
actually, nvm I found actual dimensions: the sword is like half the actual size tho... probably. http://www.globalgear.com.au/prod165.htm

 

[Sieguest]

More like D3's Fsmash range

eff dat, more like 1.5times DDD ftilt range. Ike fsmash 2.0 (gitrappped)

Lul at sword being almost as tall as cloud... eff dat.... disarm Crono and then go take his stuff. I'd like to see Crono try and fight back by picking that up....

Except he has no reliable set-up

what?

It's a little different swinging a drum than a lengthy sword
Especially with enough power and speed to make any considerable damage

Personally, I'm seeing the sword weigh around 30 lbs

Okay, a drum's a bit more compact than a sword, still it goes to show that just because it ways X pounds doesn't mean OMG HE CAN'T USE IT.
There are other factors >.>
I still don't see why he can't two hand it.

@30lbs: @___________________________________@

 

[UncleSam]

@30lbs: @___________________________________@

http://www.cosplay.com/archive/index.php/t-47909.html
he says 130 and he used actual metals.
EDIT: that was steel, 45 with aluminum.

 

[Sieguest]

http://www.cosplay.com/archive/index.php/t-47909.html
he says 130 and he used actual metals.

..........................
It just gets more ridiculous..... <.< New strategy. Cloud stands the sword up and when Crono runs up to him, Cloud pushes the sword down on him. *crunch*

lameness aside. I think I'm convinced that this sword does Jack diddly squat for cloud.

 

[tocador]

I was being sarcastic earlier. Give Cloud something else besides his traditional sword please. Otherwise every MU is going to involve him stealing weapons. That's where I stand on the situation.

Anyone can steal a weapon, or at least try too. And still i dont see thiefes being that sucefull when fighting(stealing) bare handed aggaisnt someone.

 

[UncleSam]

@guest didn't we determine that at like the very beginning of this MU?
I hate it when we go in circles, it wastes time.

EDIT: ninja'd

 

[REL38]

You guys need to stop ninja'n since I gotta retype what I was gonna write :/

@Marthage

By no set-up, I meant like Ganon's Warlock Punch


Obviously, the sword can still be used to certain extents like tilting it, but I see him being better off with a weapon such as his Murasame or Enhance Sword or Yoshiyuki


@Sam

That's pretty darn heavy

 

[Sieguest]

@guest didn't we determine that at like the very beginning of this MU?
I hate it when we go in circles, it wastes time.

EDIT: ninja'd

No... YOU GUYS determined that. I didn't agree to anything.

@Marthage

By no set-up, I meant like Ganon's Warlock Punch


Obviously, the sword can still be used to certain extents like tilting it, but I see him being better off with a weapon such as his Murasame or Enhance Sword or Yoshiyuki

Oh, Okay.

 

[ElPanandero]

Seeing as how the middle timpani drum is 18lbs. And yet our percussion players can lift and swing the thing up onto higher ground (e.g. the stage). >.>

Now answer this question: Did that man you mentioned use one or two hands when he wielded the sword.

The man used two hands, the Zweihander is a two handed weapon. I doubt he could even hold it with one hand.

And the dimensions of a drum are different than a sword. A sword has weight distributed in much more concentrated already, while a drum is equally distributed, and has much less inertia to get going because of it's size and shape. The drum is not longer than he is tall and made of steel in an elongated form all the way through.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Why is Clouds Sword covered in toilet roll in this picture?

 

[REL38]

Why is Clouds Sword covered in toilet roll in this picture?

Never played Final Fantasy so your guess is as good as mine

For expelling wastes on the go?

 

[Sieguest]

The man used two hands, the Zweihander is a two handed weapon. I doubt he could even hold it with one hand.

And the dimensions of a drum are different than a sword. A sword has weight distributed in much more concentrated already, while a drum is equally distributed, and has much less inertia to get going because of it's size and shape. The drum is not longer than he is tall and made of steel in an elongated form all the way through.

There's one thing you forgot..... (on a serious note, I see what you're saying.)

Why is Clouds Sword covered in toilet roll in this picture?

THIS! The toilet paper must make so cloud can lift and swing it. Magical Therapeutic Paper.

Never played Final Fantasy so your guess is as good as mine

For expelling wastes on the go?

He's obviously the most prepared person in that game....

obv.

 

[JOE!]

WE INTERRUPT THIS THREAD FOR AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN2qRz0tWko





we need to evaluate PIT again :O

 

[Sieguest]

WE INTERRUPT THIS THREAD FOR AN IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN2qRz0tWko





we need to evaluate PIT again :O

What the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Where'd pit get a Big Ol sword from?

 

[JOE!]

by the way, thats actual gameplay footage from the 3DS


we have a handheld gamecube, IN 3D

 

[Sieguest]

Nintendo just won.

Pit wins the thread... done.